Ameriprise :(

Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here.
User avatar
unclescrooge
Posts: 2208
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:00 pm

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by unclescrooge » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:02 pm

Jjball wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:09 pm
Help me understand one thing - many of you suggest to go to Vanguard for example. I have it now, but those low funds are not gaining as much. In some cases 1 year best options at Vanguard has say 12% return for 0.07% fee vs 17% in sps option with .5% fund fee and 1% ameriprise fee.
So whats the logic saying go to Vanguard low fee funds when they are over performed 5% or even more? What am i missing here? P.s. most mutual funds im talking about that are with ameriprise arent on vanguard.
Thanks
What's an sps option?

User avatar
sergeant
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:13 pm

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by sergeant » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:28 pm

justwondering wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:02 am
ruralavalon wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:24 am
justwondering wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:03 am
I've been reading Bogleheads every chance I get and although the plan is amazingly simple, getting there is going to be tricky :? I'm working on a post to request help with what to do with the positions currently under our control. We have things scattered all over and I'm still trying to work out the percentages for the big picture. I think I'm going to ignore the worthless REIT and what's left in Ameriprise for we can't touch them for a few years. Planning to rebalance as they become available unless the behindBogleheads say otherwise. Should I keep my questions in this thread since my history is here or start a new thread since they'll be about moving forward?
I think a new thread asking for ideas on how to reinvest using your new Fidelity accounts, including a link to this thread for background, will likely be better.

Please see the post "asking portfolio questions" for format. Your new post will need to include the REITs and other assets left behind, as they will probably influence the suggestions on how to invest in your Fidelity accounts.
I tried to take your advice and calculate the percentages with the Ameriprise account included but since the actual products are so mysterious and the fees hidden it was impossible. Ameriprise does not provide ticker symbols and when I searched the fund names, none of them were perfect matches. I’m going to contact Ameriprise to find out exactly what we have. Great idea to add a link to this thread to future questions :D
Since you're just going to let the "stuff" that's at Ameriprise age out of their control how about you just don't include it in your question? As it becomes available to transfer just plug it in to your (future) well-constructed plan at Fidelity.
Lincoln 3 EOW!

User avatar
Ged
Posts: 3549
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 1:48 pm
Location: Roke

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by Ged » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:48 pm

Jjball wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:09 pm

So whats the logic saying go to Vanguard low fee funds when they are over performed 5% or even more? What am i missing here?
The logic is that 1 year performance is not indicative of what the long term results of managed funds vs index funds are. For any given year you can find a managed fund that has outperformed index funds. However there is no way to predict which fund that will be in advance, and if you buy the fund that was last years good result you soon find out that the disclaimer "past returns are no guarantee of future results" is very very true.

http://www.businessinsider.com/index-fu ... nds-2013-6

Khanmots
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by Khanmots » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:00 pm

Jjball wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:09 pm
Help me understand one thing - many of you suggest to go to Vanguard for example. I have it now, but those low funds are not gaining as much. In some cases 1 year best options at Vanguard has say 12% return for 0.07% fee vs 17% in sps option with .5% fund fee and 1% ameriprise fee.
So whats the logic saying go to Vanguard low fee funds when they are over performed 5% or even more? What am i missing here? P.s. most mutual funds im talking about that are with ameriprise arent on vanguard.
Thanks
Buying the winning lottery ticket outperforms your measly 17% from that sps option.

It's the same problem. It's easy to know the winning numbers (or fund) looking backwards. Good luck knowing it ahead of time though.

As someone else pointed out, 80%+ of active funds under-perform the relevant index. Gets worse when you realize that it's not the same 20% winning year after year... that the distribution of winners/losers year after year matches what you'd get if it was just random luck. In other words the 20% that won aren't going to win year after year. Come year two 80%+ of the previous winners are going to under-perform. Now you're down to less than 4% that won 2 years back to back. Go to 5 or 10 years of this... and good luck.

Finding that 1 fund out of thousands ahead of time... that's the problem.

justwondering
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by justwondering » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:56 am

sergeant wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:28 pm
Since you're just going to let the "stuff" that's at Ameriprise age out of their control how about you just don't include it in your question? As it becomes available to transfer just plug it in to your (future) well-constructed plan at Fidelity.
I only included it bc the instructions on how to post say to include everything but I see your point -- basically, it doesn't exist for a few more years!
It could be that the purpose of my life is to serve as a warning to others

justwondering
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by justwondering » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:02 am

Devil's Advocate wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:58 am
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I am not sure how you can get out of the complex products.

Are these in 401ks/traditional IRAs? Roths? Taxable?

DA
Two are traditional, two are SEP. Once we start repositioning, we're going to combine them at Fidelity so we'll each have one. Once we started digging, we found that we were paying 4 separate custodial fees annually. If we each had one IRA, we would only be paying 2 custodial fees. It never ends...
It could be that the purpose of my life is to serve as a warning to others

justwondering
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by justwondering » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:11 am

smitcat wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:04 am
Please choose where you want to place your investments (vanguard, Schwab, etc ) and carefully work with them to move your accounts.
In some cases it will be very important how this is completed - like moving some of them over in 'like kind' before you change your investment choices.
If you do not move them over in like kind they will be sold at Ameriprise which will likely generate both high fees as well as potential taxable events.

After 30 years just take a few more weeks to make sure you (Ameriprise) does not trigger even more costs then you need to sustain.
You will need a very complete list of what you have in detail to have these conversations.
Thanks smitcat. As it turned out NOTHING could be transferred in kind since Ameriprise bundles everything (at least everything in our portfolio) into their own proprietary products. This way they are able to charge more internal fees and penalize us for selling or moving them. We took what we could (some of the fees were just too high!), paid around $8,000 in fees (that we know of) just to get away from them. Hopefully we'll make this back by growing our own $ without the massive fee drag.
It could be that the purpose of my life is to serve as a warning to others

justwondering
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by justwondering » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:23 am

DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:20 am
My ex-secretary had an account with Ameriprise. She had the same problem you have, with my help, she moved her money to Vanguard. But be very careful with the transferring process. They both screw up royally.
Edit to add, it finally took about 6 months for the final transfer. I would try to stay on top of it. Her asset was less than $200k, maybe it was a smallish amount that Vanguard didn’t put too much effort in getting the right people to help her.
This was exactly our experience. We're approx 2/3 away from them now but what a hassle! The Vanguard ppl were nice but not particularly helpful. We ended up at Fidelity bc basically Ameriprise ignored our transfer requests, then created more obstacles and Vanguard just sat there. I had to keep hounding them both until I finally gave up. I don't know how much $ it takes to get their attention but $600,000 (at Vanguard!) isn't enough :oops:
It could be that the purpose of my life is to serve as a warning to others

justwondering
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by justwondering » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:35 am

NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:42 am
I'll chime back in to disagree with the previous post about term life insurance, because it is not clear to me that you need any at all.

Is anyone depending on your or your spouse's future income? If not, you don't need life insurance. Term will be expensive at your age, and you may not need it.

Knowing what to do with your existing policy will take some work. There are posters on this board that can help you, but they are more likely to respond to a post with a title like "What to do with existing whole life policy?"

As a matter of fact, you might want to look up that question in the search bar and read through a few responses. Since it looks like the amount you have paid in exceeds the cash value, you might not want to just cash it out. Other posters have been able to roll a policy into a Vanguard annuity, and let it ride until the cash value catches up with the premiums paid, and then cash it out with no tax consequence. Or something like that. I've seen it discussed but not worked through the details.

Again, this will take some research, thought and analysis, it's not just a phone call and a hand off. When you are ready to tackle the chore, start a new post.
Will do, thanks. None of this has been as simple as expected, lol.

Surprisingly, Ameriprise OWNS Riversource insurance company (no conflict of interest there.) Of course our annuities and insurances are with them (so they make $ on both the Riversource and Ameriprise sides of the portfolio) and are unable to be transferred to anyone else. They have huge penalties and surrender fees so it usually doesn't make sense to leave bc the loss would be so great.

By the way, when we tried Vanguard they highly discouraged us from buying their own annuities. They said we could do better. I'm guessing they're for ppl who have so much $ they can live off the low returns for the rest of their lives.
It could be that the purpose of my life is to serve as a warning to others

justwondering
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by justwondering » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:38 am

KSActuary wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:55 am
How does your advisor meet the "Know your client" obligation if he hasn't talked with you.

Want to get his attention? Call the office manager and ask to speak with him regarding the advisor's lack of professionalism and mention you would like to keep this from escalating to a written letter which the manager would have to report up the line.
Its my understanding that Ameriprise restructured so each advisor owns their own office or works for someone who does. I'm guessing its so Ameriprise can't be sued for what their advisors do, but maybe I'm just bitter. :x
It could be that the purpose of my life is to serve as a warning to others

User avatar
ruralavalon
Posts: 13334
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:29 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by ruralavalon » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:44 am

justwondering wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:11 am
smitcat wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:04 am
Please choose where you want to place your investments (vanguard, Schwab, etc ) and carefully work with them to move your accounts.
In some cases it will be very important how this is completed - like moving some of them over in 'like kind' before you change your investment choices.
If you do not move them over in like kind they will be sold at Ameriprise which will likely generate both high fees as well as potential taxable events.

After 30 years just take a few more weeks to make sure you (Ameriprise) does not trigger even more costs then you need to sustain.
You will need a very complete list of what you have in detail to have these conversations.
Thanks smitcat. As it turned out NOTHING could be transferred in kind since Ameriprise bundles everything (at least everything in our portfolio) into their own proprietary products. This way they are able to charge more internal fees and penalize us for selling or moving them. We took what we could (some of the fees were just too high!), paid around $8,000 in fees (that we know of) just to get away from them. Hopefully we'll make this back by growing our own $ without the massive fee drag.
Sad :( :( . Another Ameriprise horror story.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

Dottie57
Posts: 3682
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by Dottie57 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:10 am

Dottie57 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:39 pm
justwondering wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:57 pm
Thank you all for your great advice and sympathies ;) Since I posted I've been trying to move a few accounts to Vanguard but so far, nothing has actually transferred. I’m considering going with another firm (if I can find something better), its been 6 weeks and whenever they run into a snag they drop the ball, no follow up, no contact -my paperwork just sits there until I call. Ameriprise won’t let go of my $ and Vanguard won’t go after it. Ugh.
I think I would do the following.

1. List out every holding you have at Ameriprise. Determine the type of product and note that down. Note whether it is specific to Ameriprise or can be held at another brokerage. Maybe a spreadsheet.
2. Make sure you have the LATEST statements from Ameriprise.
3. Pick a new brokerage. - Schwab or Fidelity. Go to a local office and ask to see an advisor as you want to transfer assets.
4. Bring the items from 1 And 2 with you to the new brokerage.
5. Explain everything to the person you work with - no emotions just the facts. Tell the person you want to concentrate on transfering first and then will decide on what to sell and what to keep.
6. Keep this as simple as possible.
7. For products which are proprietary to Ameriprise, leave at Ameriprise for the time being and concentrate on what can be moved.
8. See this as a step by step process.

Good luck.
My situation was much simpler. But I essentially did the same. I used Fidelity since they had a local office very close to me. It went very well. I worked with one account ata time to decrease my anxiety.

It was good to leave the old brokerage. Fidelity has a good web site.

justwondering
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by justwondering » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:09 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:10 am

I think I would do the following.

1. List out every holding you have at Ameriprise. Determine the type of product and note that down. Note whether it is specific to Ameriprise or can be held at another brokerage. Maybe a spreadsheet.
2. Make sure you have the LATEST statements from Ameriprise.
3. Pick a new brokerage. - Schwab or Fidelity. Go to a local office and ask to see an advisor as you want to transfer assets.
4. Bring the items from 1 And 2 with you to the new brokerage.
5. Explain everything to the person you work with - no emotions just the facts. Tell the person you want to concentrate on transfering first and then will decide on what to sell and what to keep.
6. Keep this as simple as possible.
7. For products which are proprietary to Ameriprise, leave at Ameriprise for the time being and concentrate on what can be moved.
8. See this as a step by step process.

Good luck.
My situation was much simpler. But I essentially did the same. I used Fidelity since they had a local office very close to me. It went very well. I worked with one account ata time to decrease my anxiety.

It was good to leave the old brokerage. Fidelity has a good web site.
[/quote]

Yes, it does! Lots of info there and fairly easy to navigate, I'm still learning.

Walking into the office with all our paperwork helped, too. When we mailed or faxed Ameriprise or Vanguard we didn't know when it was received or how long it sat around without being processed. There didn't seem to be any interest on either side but when we brought our statements to the Fidelity office they sat down with us and helped us fill out the forms and submitted them the next day.

That was another problem with Ameriprise --some of the questions on the forms either didn't have a checkbox that applied to us and some had more than one that applied. More than once our transfer request was denied due to incorrect forms but no one contacted us to let us know. Once they even provided me with the wrong form! I had to mail it in (couldn't fax or upload to the secure document center on their website) and wait the 4-6 weeks for 'processing'. Once the time was up, I had to track it down, hours on the phone with several transfers, each time going through a lengthy verification process, explaining the problem over and over to various reps, some with a questionable grasp on the English language. It was finally determined that I used the wrong form. Although it was an Ameriprise annuity transfer form, they required a different Ameriprise annuity transfer form for NY state. Keep in mind our advisor is in NY and provided me with the form.

Once this is over I should do a post "How to get out of Ameriprise" and list all the stalling techniques we encountered and how we finally got out :D
It could be that the purpose of my life is to serve as a warning to others

KSActuary
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by KSActuary » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:31 am

justwondering wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:38 am
KSActuary wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:55 am
How does your advisor meet the "Know your client" obligation if he hasn't talked with you.

Want to get his attention? Call the office manager and ask to speak with him regarding the advisor's lack of professionalism and mention you would like to keep this from escalating to a written letter which the manager would have to report up the line.
Its my understanding that Ameriprise restructured so each advisor owns their own office or works for someone who does. I'm guessing its so Ameriprise can't be sued for what their advisors do, but maybe I'm just bitter. :x
Someone performs compliance oversight and that person I responsible for the advisor's actions.

justwondering
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Ameriprise :(

Post by justwondering » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:05 am

I'll look into that, thank you.
It could be that the purpose of my life is to serve as a warning to others

Post Reply