Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

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Topic Author
ketchup
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Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:22 am

Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

Post by ketchup »

I am not a US resident. I have contacted several wealth advisory firms in the US, all of who have informed that they do not handle international clients. (Evanson, IFA, Cardiff, to name a few).

Can anyone throw some light on reputed firms that do handle international clients. The firms could be US or non-US(Ireland?). I would imagine if the firms were outside the US (off-shore), there would be no tax implications for me, as I don't live in the US?

I am convinced of the benefits of passive index-linked low cost investing. I have been using European bankers for a long time and find that they are expensive and of very limited value.

Thanks
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David Jay
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Location: Michigan

Re: Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

Post by David Jay »

I can't help you with with your specific issue.

Most of us here at BH are do-it-yourself types. We would agree with you that third parties have "very limited value". But we would be glad to help you DIY through a low cost brokerage firm (I believe that Vanguard has Irish-domiciled funds, for instance).
It's not an engineering problem - Hersh Shefrin | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius
airelleofmusic
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Re: Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

Post by airelleofmusic »

Try to contact Dan Korth at Lily Wealth Management.
I am about to work with him on an investment solution.
I am a non US resident.
LBYM and enjoy life ! Thanks BH !
Topic Author
ketchup
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

Post by ketchup »

David Jay wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:03 pm I can't help you with with your specific issue.

Most of us here at BH are do-it-yourself types. We would agree with you that third parties have "very limited value". But we would be glad to help you DIY through a low cost brokerage firm (I believe that Vanguard has Irish-domiciled funds, for instance).
David, how would I specifically go about doing this? Thanks
Topic Author
ketchup
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

Post by ketchup »

airelleofmusic wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:07 pm Try to contact Dan Korth at Lily Wealth Management.
I am about to work with him on an investment solution.
I am a non US resident.
Thanks, will research them.
TedSwippet
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Re: Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

Post by TedSwippet »

ketchup wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:53 pmI am not a US resident. I have contacted several wealth advisory firms in the US, all of who have informed that they do not handle international clients...
You asked a similar question a couple of years ago. The answers you received then still apply.

Your best bet is probably to buy Vanguard's Ireland-domiciled ETFs through someone like Interactive Brokers, but there may be nuances to this depending on which country you live in, whether or not it has US income tax or estate tax treaties, and how your local tax laws operate.
Topic Author
ketchup
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Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

Post by ketchup »

TedSwippet wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:53 pm
ketchup wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:53 pmI am not a US resident. I have contacted several wealth advisory firms in the US, all of who have informed that they do not handle international clients...
You asked a similar question a couple of years ago. The answers you received then still apply.

Your best bet is probably to buy Vanguard's Ireland-domiciled ETFs through someone like Interactive Brokers, but there may be nuances to this depending on which country you live in, whether or not it has US income tax or estate tax treaties, and how your local tax laws operate.
I understand your suggestion. This means a DIY approach. However, I am hoping to connect with a reputed wealth management advisor who would manage my portfolio for a fee. This is turning out to be a difficult task... though I can't understand why. It seems index linked passive investment strategies are being used mostly in the US.

I guess another option for me might be to connect with someone who would provide only advisory services for a fee. I would do the actual buying and selling as advised through a platform like Internaxx out of Luxembourg. Any thoughts on this? (I hope the point I am trying to make is clear)
TedSwippet
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Re: Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

Post by TedSwippet »

ketchup wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:18 amI understand your suggestion. This means a DIY approach. However, I am hoping to connect with a reputed wealth management advisor who would manage my portfolio for a fee. This is turning out to be a difficult task... though I can't understand why. It seems index linked passive investment strategies are being used mostly in the US.
Yeah. I think that in a sense you are probably just asking your question to wrong crowd of people. Most folk on this site will be taking the DIY approach and so bypassing IFAs and other advisors.
ketchup wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:18 amI guess another option for me might be to connect with someone who would provide only advisory services for a fee. I would do the actual buying and selling as advised through a platform like Internaxx out of Luxembourg. Any thoughts on this? (I hope the point I am trying to make is clear)
That sounds like a promising middle-ground to me. In particular, depending on your portfolio size, if you use flat-fee or per-hour advisors rather than ones that take a percentage of your assets you should find that you save decent amounts of money over time. I can't see any particular reason to use a US based advisor -- a local one would almost certainly be much more knowledgeable about the tax position and possibility of using tax shelters in your own country. An advisor from your home country would also avoids any regulatory hurdles or other issues that an advisory firm from a different country might suffer when working with foreign (to them) clients.

As well as 'human' advisors you might also consider some of the new breed of "robo-advisors". These are very much more likely to maintain a passive investing focus (not least because their livelihood won't depend heavily on portfolio 'churn'!). Again though, it depends what exists in your home country.

Which country are you from? Does it have a US income tax treaty? And a US estate tax treaty also? And what approximate level of portfolio value are you dealing with? Answers to these questions should help with future responses when it comes to picking suitable investment vehicles.
Topic Author
ketchup
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

Post by ketchup »

TedSwippet wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:01 am
ketchup wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:18 amI understand your suggestion. This means a DIY approach. However, I am hoping to connect with a reputed wealth management advisor who would manage my portfolio for a fee. This is turning out to be a difficult task... though I can't understand why. It seems index linked passive investment strategies are being used mostly in the US.
Yeah. I think that in a sense you are probably just asking your question to wrong crowd of people. Most folk on this site will be taking the DIY approach and so bypassing IFAs and other advisors.
ketchup wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:18 amI guess another option for me might be to connect with someone who would provide only advisory services for a fee. I would do the actual buying and selling as advised through a platform like Internaxx out of Luxembourg. Any thoughts on this? (I hope the point I am trying to make is clear)
That sounds like a promising middle-ground to me. In particular, depending on your portfolio size, if you use flat-fee or per-hour advisors rather than ones that take a percentage of your assets you should find that you save decent amounts of money over time. I can't see any particular reason to use a US based advisor -- a local one would almost certainly be much more knowledgeable about the tax position and possibility of using tax shelters in your own country. An advisor from your home country would also avoids any regulatory hurdles or other issues that an advisory firm from a different country might suffer when working with foreign (to them) clients.

As well as 'human' advisors you might also consider some of the new breed of "robo-advisors". These are very much more likely to maintain a passive investing focus (not least because their livelihood won't depend heavily on portfolio 'churn'!). Again though, it depends what exists in your home country.

Which country are you from? Does it have a US income tax treaty? And a US estate tax treaty also? And what approximate level of portfolio value are you dealing with? Answers to these questions should help with future responses when it comes to picking suitable investment vehicles.
You're right, I don't necessarily need to use a US based advisor. However, as I mentioned earlier, I have not been able to find passive index-linked low cost advisors. It just seems this philosophy has support and momentum in the US. Elsewhere, advisors are still selling individual stock picking expertise. I currently bank out of Germany, but their fees are ridiculous. I have been paying these fees for a long time.

Robo advisors is an idea I did not consider. However, again, it's a DIY approach (I think?).

Regarding the taxation - I am in the fortunate position of being in a no-man's land. I am a non-resident in my country of birth (hence my income is not taxable) and the country where I reside is quite lax with expat investors with respect to personal income tax (business income is of-course taxed)
TedSwippet
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Re: Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

Post by TedSwippet »

ketchup wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:07 amRobo advisors is an idea I did not consider. However, again, it's a DIY approach (I think?).
Not exactly DIY, at least not normally. Most seem to offer a selection of standard-ish portfolios, usually built up out of a number of cheap tracker funds or ETFs, often (but perhaps not exclusively) Vanguard's, and an automated question-and-answer 'interview' that picks an appropriate one for you. More in this article.

I can see how this might work for you. The tricky part will be finding one to work with -- see below for why most, if not all, the US-based ones might not be suitable.
ketchup wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:07 amRegarding the taxation - I am in the fortunate position of being in a no-man's land. I am a non-resident in my country of birth (hence my income is not taxable) and the country where I reside is quite lax with expat investors with respect to personal income tax (business income is of-course taxed).
Although I can't be sure -- you are presumably intentionally vague :-) -- from what you say it looks like you would not be covered by any form of US tax treaty.

If that is the case, as a US non-resident alien then even if you could, you should not invest through any US-based advisor, including -- perhaps especially -- any robo-advisor. US based advisors will use US domiciled ETFs or funds to hold your investments, and any account you hold with them may well itself constitute a 'US situs' asset. Without treaty coverage you would both overpay US tax on dividends, perhaps twice the minimum you could achieve on your US stock allocation and considerably worse even than that on non-US stock allocation, and also be at risk of US estate taxes on any holding above $60k.

It sounds to me like you would be in the best position if you can decouple the advice and the investing parts. Find an advisor who can provide flat or hourly fee based guidance and who knows both the tax landscape you live in and the perils and pitfalls of US tax laws for non-resident aliens. And then do the actual investing yourself following that, ideally using a non-US DIY brokerage (although Interactive Brokers will be okay if all other options are bad, providing that you know and carefully follow the rules of avoiding US tax traps).
Topic Author
ketchup
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Help - trying to find low cost advisers who will work with non U.S. residents

Post by ketchup »

I guess I didn’t quite look at it from a US tax perspective. You’re suggestion of splitting the advisory part (where I use a US fee based advisor) from the actual investment (where I use a non-US brokerage) is probably the best way ahead. I guess I’ll have to do some research and find an advisor… any ideas? Thanks for the valuable input.
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