TLTD - Int'l Developed Small/Value Tilt Fund

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gquogue
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TLTD - Int'l Developed Small/Value Tilt Fund

Post by gquogue » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:04 pm

Hi All,

Just started reading the various posts on this forum a few weeks ago....it's awesome!

I am rebuilding my 401k AA (hopefully for a real long time) and have the good fortune of being able to invest 50% of the holdings via Fidelity BrokerageLink.

For the Int'l Developed part of the portfolio, I have been trying to find a small value option like the domestic IJS which unfortunately doesn't seem to exist in as straightforward and clean of an option as IJS.

However one option that came up was TLTD which I could not find a single posting from the BH forum where it was ever discussed.

The marketing "Fact Sheet" on the funds website even provides the %'s of the tilts to both small (37.5%) and value (47%). The morningstar xray gives very different figures on the small %. I would tend to think the direct fund marketing literature would not misrepresent the actual %'s, and that morningstar is just off. But I certainly don't want to be naive.

I am surprised to not see more chatter about this option on the bogleheads forum given how common it seems for people to be implementing value/small tilts to their portfolios.

Does anyone have any thoughts or concerns with this particular option? Seems like a great way to get small/value exposure for developed int'l.

TLTE is the emerging market option from the same fund company, which has had a few BH posts in the past, and also seems like a very quality option.

Thanks all!

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Noobvestor
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Re: TLTD - Int'l Developed Small/Value Tilt Fund

Post by Noobvestor » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:26 pm

.39% is far too rich for my tastes. Also, lots of data shows that small/value premiums are relatively independent of location (i.e. you can get your small and value tilts in the US, where's it's cheap and easy, and it won't really matter). And then there are your concerns, like: how well it actually fits the advertised style. In short: I'd avoid it, and with its ER I'm not surprised it doesn't get discussed around here.
"In the absence of clarity, diversification is the only logical strategy" -= Larry Swedroe

livesoft
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Re: TLTD - Int'l Developed Small/Value Tilt Fund

Post by livesoft » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:23 pm

Volume is way way way too low, so no one should be interested in this ETF.

Chart the total return of TLTD versus SCZ and VSS/VFSVX and tell me if you are still interested in ti. At least SCZ and VSS have some volume to speak of.
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gquogue
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Re: TLTD - Int'l Developed Small/Value Tilt Fund

Post by gquogue » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:35 pm

Delayed response but thanks for the responses. Pretty remarkable that just a couple of responses here made me think this over and realize these TLT funds are really not what Im looking for. That's what makes these forums pretty fantastic. After much deliberation, for my international SC exposure I will be going with all VSS given it also covers my emerging exposure for an amazing ER. The scv options in the international space are just not comfortable options for me. Of my equity allocation I plan to go with 50% domestic, 50% international, and for the international portion will have 30% VSS, and 10% in both FNDF and FNDE. Domestic will be 25% tsm, 10% scv in ijs, 10% lcv in vtv, and 5% reit with vnq. Thought about going 100% equity but upon reading much about that (I am 35), I think a 10-20% fixed income position will be wise if for nothing else, psychologically knowing I have some exposure there during downturns. If anyone has any thoughts on any of the above looking particularly off, would love the feedback, thanks again!

boglerdude
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Re: TLTD - Int'l Developed Small/Value Tilt Fund

Post by boglerdude » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:35 pm

livesoft wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:23 pm
Volume is way way way too low, so no one should be interested in this ETF.
How low is too low, and why

livesoft
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Re: TLTD - Int'l Developed Small/Value Tilt Fund

Post by livesoft » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:20 pm

For me too low is less than 100,000 shares average a day and/or less than $10 million a day.

Why? Because I don't ever want to find myself in the position of owning or having to trade 5% of the average for the day.
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whodidntante
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Re: TLTD - Int'l Developed Small/Value Tilt Fund

Post by whodidntante » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:53 pm

It's decent and it lives in a space without fantastic options. I guess you could use FNDC instead or combine SCHC with FNDF for separate small and value holdings. You'll get better liquidity, and the latter combo is pretty cheap.

The tradability tab here will give you more insight. TLTD isn't terrible.
http://www.etf.com/TLTD

gquogue
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Re: TLTD - Int'l Developed Small/Value Tilt Fund

Post by gquogue » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:14 am

The thing that was really interesting to me was was running the PV backtested factor loadings on these funds. I ran them back to 2008 and I am also assuming I used the system right. Fndc actually showed a slightly negative Value factor. On its small factor, I really just paid attention to average market cap, and VSS was still significantly better averaging 1.7B vs fndc being more than double that amount at 3.7B. And TLTD is a significant large cap holding play and I was looking for significant small cap exposure for my international equity, so again after finally factoring in the cherry on top low ER for vss, the combo of VSS plus FNDF/Fnde (to get my international large cap value) seemed like a good combo for me.

CRTR
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Re: TLTD - Int'l Developed Small/Value Tilt Fund

Post by CRTR » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:53 am

here are my thoughts/issues, which mirror many of the above:

1. small trading volume and, therefore, pretty large bid/ask spreads, which will cost you when you trade.
2. seems to me to be more all cap than small cap
2. if you're interested in a Developed Market small cap, value tilted portfolio, DLS (smaller cap, similar value tilt), FNDC (smaller, less value)
3. VSS includes significant Emerging Market exposure (TLTD, FNDC, DLS, SCZ do not). VSS has almost no value tilt
4. relatively expensive @0.39 but cheaper than DLS and about same as FNDC.

KyleAAA
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Re: TLTD - Int'l Developed Small/Value Tilt Fund

Post by KyleAAA » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:00 am

There unfortunately (still!) aren't many great options in that space. FNDC and DLS are probably the best outside of DFA, but FNDC's value loading tends to fluctuate a lot over time (sometimes it has a moderate tilt and sometimes little-to-none). DLS's weakness is it only includes dividend stocks, so it's less diversified within the developed small/value universe.

Altruist FA doesn't have a page for developed small/value, which is my go-to for every other asset class.
http://www.altruistfa.com/dfavanguard.htm

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