Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

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clown
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by clown » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:02 am

To OP - you haven't "lost" anything in terms of cash. You have the same number of shares today as you did yesterday. No loss is sustained unless you sell. The only difference is that Mr. Market will pay you less today than yesterday. I suggest you consider the change in value in percentage terms. If, as a prior poster suggested, you have a portfolio of $700,000, then the change of value is 1%. So is 1% worth getting excited about?

Another way to look at this is that since prices are "down," this is a good buying opportunity.

How will you feel on another day when values go "up" $7k? Euphoria? Such a change change WILL come a some future date.

Take a deep breath, remember you haven't lost anything, and stay the course. Buy equities if you have cash.

JBTX
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by JBTX » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:09 am

whodidntante wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:39 pm
abuss368 wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:39 pm
As Warren Buffett noted during the financial crisis "things are on sale".
I don't hear him saying that right now.
Apparently GE is not on sale.

aqan
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by aqan » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:17 am

whodidntante wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:39 pm
abuss368 wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:39 pm
As Warren Buffett noted during the financial crisis "things are on sale".
I don't hear him saying that right now.
I don't believe there's a financial crises either

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FIREchief
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by FIREchief » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:09 am

whodidntante wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:39 pm
abuss368 wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:39 pm
As Warren Buffett noted during the financial crisis "things are on sale".
I don't hear him saying that right now.
Don't you remember those black Friday 1.5% off sales that had people lining up at the doors rather than sleeping off their Thanksgiving dinners?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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abuss368
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by abuss368 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:01 am

whodidntante wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:39 pm
abuss368 wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:39 pm
As Warren Buffett noted during the financial crisis "things are on sale".
I don't hear him saying that right now.
Exactly! No panic presently.
John C. Bogle: "You simply do not need to put your money into 8 different mutual funds!" | | Disclosure: Three Fund Portfolio + U.S. & International REITs

dbr
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by dbr » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:21 am

1. You lost all your money the day you invested because stocks and bonds are not money.

2. What fluctuates is the value of your investments measured by what they hypothetically could have been sold for at the market quotes at some point in time. This value is meaningful but it is not money. Bogleheads do not claim portfolio value cannot increase or decrease. Arguments that one still has the same number of shares are not useful. There is no fluctuation going on in the market right now that is extraordinary.

3. A decline in the market is not a buying opportunity unless you believe it signals a point to time the market. It is very hard to justify that market timing can be successful. Bogleheads would probably mostly look at this in terms of whether or not to rebalance. Rebalancing practiced in the long term is a strategy to control risk and does not have a significant return bonus.

4. People who are not used to investing or who don't have a perspective on market value fluctuation may point out as events things that are not events at all.

5. Threads like this are strange, but strange threads are always useful to provoke thinking.

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stockpickerted
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by stockpickerted » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:05 am

Losses only on paper, right! Gains also only on paper! Investing is gambling, period, so be prepared for big wins and big losses. Please, will somebody show me a stock that is guaranteed never to go down.

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whodidntante
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by whodidntante » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:09 am

abuss368 wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:01 am
whodidntante wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:39 pm
abuss368 wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:39 pm
As Warren Buffett noted during the financial crisis "things are on sale".
I don't hear him saying that right now.
Exactly! No panic presently.
Oh, I'm not panicking. But quoting Buffett from the financial crisis is disingenuous. This was a tiny burp of a pullback within an incredible bull market and is not the same environment that had Buffett pounding the table. There was a thread recently about how T-bill heavy Buffett is right now.

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abuss368
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by abuss368 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:38 am

whodidntante wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:09 am

Oh, I'm not panicking. But quoting Buffett from the financial crisis is disingenuous. This was a tiny burp of a pullback within an incredible bull market and is not the same environment that had Buffett pounding the table. There was a thread recently about how T-bill heavy Buffett is right now.
He has to be building working capital now with T-Bills and Cash. When there is a correction I would imagine that he will go on a shopping spree.
John C. Bogle: "You simply do not need to put your money into 8 different mutual funds!" | | Disclosure: Three Fund Portfolio + U.S. & International REITs

jbolden1517
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by jbolden1517 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:07 am

dbr wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:21 am

3. A decline in the market is not a buying opportunity unless you believe it signals a point to time the market. It is very hard to justify that market timing can be successful. Bogleheads would probably mostly look at this in terms of whether or not to rebalance. Rebalancing practiced in the long term is a strategy to control risk and does not have a significant return bonus.
The rest of your comment is good but this is just either wrong or misleading. Controlling risk is the same thing as boosting return. An asset returning a smooth serial return of 10% has the same expected return as one that does: 50% of the time +110% and 50% of the time -100%. The serial return of the more volatile asset is 0. You get the serial return not the expected return on your investments. So rebalancing does have a rather significant return bonus of about 110-150 basis points.

http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/996/rebal.htm

jbolden1517
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by jbolden1517 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:08 am

stockpickerted wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:05 am
Losses only on paper, right! Gains also only on paper! Investing is gambling, period, so be prepared for big wins and big losses. Please, will somebody show me a stock that is guaranteed never to go down.
Sure there many tens of thousands of defunct companies. Those stocks don't further decline. 8-) :D

dbr
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by dbr » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:04 am

jbolden1517 wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:07 am
dbr wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:21 am

3. A decline in the market is not a buying opportunity unless you believe it signals a point to time the market. It is very hard to justify that market timing can be successful. Bogleheads would probably mostly look at this in terms of whether or not to rebalance. Rebalancing practiced in the long term is a strategy to control risk and does not have a significant return bonus.
The rest of your comment is good but this is just either wrong or misleading. Controlling risk is the same thing as boosting return. An asset returning a smooth serial return of 10% has the same expected return as one that does: 50% of the time +110% and 50% of the time -100%. The serial return of the more volatile asset is 0. You get the serial return not the expected return on your investments. So rebalancing does have a rather significant return bonus of about 110-150 basis points.

http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/996/rebal.htm
That is not what my comment was about. What you are talking about was already determined when the investor devised his asset allocation. I am talking about steps to keep the asset allocation where it was designed to be, which is a different issue. That said, your comment is correct as a matter of portfolio design in the MPT sense. I am pretty sure, for example, that letting a portfolio drift to a higher stock allocation will improve expected return considerably but at higher risk and that the compounded mean return would also be greater in spite of the risk. Your comment is about reducing risk while holding the same expected return. The point has to do with the effect of risk on compounded return for the same expected return. The comment is mathematically correct but does not benefit when the expected return is also significantly altered along with the risk by letting the portfolio design change by a lot.

tl:dr Finding the optimum portfolio could result in better compound return for the same expected return, at least mathematically. Finding optimum portfolio efficiency to start with and taking actions to keep the portfolio at target are two different things. Preventing a portfolio from drifting away from the optimum does not increase the previously intended return on average.

I am going to stop posting to this Forum again because these kinds of nuance on top of nuance discussions are just too tiresome.

Alex GR
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by Alex GR » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:11 am

bayview wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:48 am
Alex GR wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:39 pm
Hi everyone,
I lost $7000 today in one day. My portfolio is below.
Ironically, I've just returned from a store where I was arguing with a cashier over 0.50 cents! Got home and saw that the portfolio went down by $7k... :oops:
Should I change the allocation if this kind of downswing bothers me? :confused
The portfolio is 72/28 with 55% U.S. Stock, 28% U.S. Bond and 17% International Stock.

VOO Vanguard 500 Index Fund 32%
VOE Vanguard Mid-Cap Value ETF 5%
VBR Vanguard Small-Cap Value ETF 13%
POGRX PRIMECAP Odyssey Growth Fund 5%
BIV Vanguard Intermediate-Term Bond ETF 19%
PONDX PIMCO Income Fund Class D 9%
VXUS Vanguard Total International Stock ETF International 12%
VWO Vanguard FTSE Emerging Markets ETF International 2%
SFVLX Seafarer Overseas Value Fund International 3%
Shame on the posters here who were mocking OP. He's a relatively new member, and he's doing exactly what we advise: determining whether or not he can accept volatility and dial back if not. Better to ask these questions after a 1.5% drop than later after another 2008.

OP, I missed what your age is and how many years to go, if that was posted, but this is a great illustration of the fact that investing isn't a smooth, newly-paved road, but a bumpy, suspension-challenging one. It generally gets you where you want to go, but it might not always be comfortable.

Maybe your AA is too aggressive for you, but more likely, it's just the suddenness after this nice smooth climb we've been on. Before changing your AA, try this: work out what the total drops in your portfolio would be under the following circumstances:
5% drop
10% drop
25% drop
40% drop
50% drop
(Go ahead --you can use your balance from Wednesday instead of from yesterday if you'd like. :D)

Let those numbers roll around in your head for a while, and accept that the first three circumstances WILL happen to you, and a decent chance for the others as well. Remember that if you're not close to retirement, you will keep investing, raising the balances with new money, plus markets do recover (so far, at any rate.) If you can get to where you can handle the numbers with some equanimity (a flinch is OK), then you're probably OK with your AA. If not, dial it back a bit.

A question: a third of your fixed income is in the PIMCO fund. How did it do yesterday? Like many other posters, I keep all my risk on the equity side. I don't ask for income from bonds (matching inflation is good enough), because I have them for safety. If your bond funds are dropping when your equities are, you might take another look at that.

I realize that portfolio options in a 401k can be pretty miserable.
Thank you for your kind words. To answer your question, I am 41.
Also, I should have mentioned in the beginning that this is a new portfolio (funds from a sale of my house before I leave for a job overseas). If I had invested in 2010 (that money would double by now), $7000 drop would not bother me.

Alex GR
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by Alex GR » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:25 am

The Wizard wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:08 am
Alex GR wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:35 am

...But you mention a drop of $100k in a day or over a few days. The problem with this is when I think about what I have to do to earn $100k in my place of work, it makes me go crazy. I mean you have no idea how much stress and what I personally have to go through to save $100k.
It's not clear to me that you have the right temperament presently to have significant funds in the stock market.
Can you explain why you have money in stocks and how long you've been investing?
What did you do during the 2008-09 timeframe?
Yes Sir, I did not have much money in 2008-09 but I have studied in detail what happened. The money is a product of:
1) Making a high salary in IT (while living frugally-not married, no kids,used car, house fully paid off) between the years of 2012 and present (net savings of $60-70k per year)
AND
2) Sale of my house in San Francisco Bay Area.
In case this question comes up-I do not plan to buy another house at this time.
I am taking an assignment overseas, will revisit the possibility of owning real estate when it's over. Not interested in buying any real estate now and holding a rental.

sambb
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by sambb » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:42 am

a 60/40 ratio for AA seems to smooth these things out more. For the OP, consider age in bonds, and you may relax more.
7000 hit in a day is significant to some people, and you will see much larger swings. Remember that the japanese market crashed for decades for those who invtested at the top. You may never make money in the market if this happened. it is always a risk.

Finance-MD
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by Finance-MD » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:03 am

A few people mentioned/suggested the OP consider TLH due to this loss.

I apologize if this is a thread hijack- moderators please feel free to move - but do people think this 1.5% percentage drop would be big enough to safely put in an order for a TLH mutual fund exchange?

For example.
Let's say OP put in a buy order of $500,000 of VTSAX Total stock market mutual fund in vanguard on Thursday during the day and owns it by that night. Then the following day it is down to $493,000
OP sees the $7000 loss and wants to harvest.
He then puts an exchange order of all of VTSAX for VLCAX, vanguard large cap.
The mutual fund exchange happens at the end of the following business day.
Isn't there a risk that with daily fluctuation VTSAX will have recovered prior to the exchange of the fund and the loss is gone before it's harvested?
I haven't done a TLH with vanguard mutual funds yet but would do one if I weren't worried about this.
Is there a way to make a mutual fund exchange order that only goes through if there is still a loss?
Thanks!

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3wood
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by 3wood » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:46 am

InvestorNewb wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:56 am
The trick is to avoid looking at your balance on down days. Only do this when the market is at highs. This advice has worked for me and while I can guess how much I'm down I don't know the real balance because I avoid looking.

Focus on the income that you get with your investments. I take comfort in the fact that every year, my dividend income increases by a few thousand dollars. That's two extra months worth of rent payments for me. Without taking market risk I get no dividends. Nobody gets rich by investing in savings accounts. If you can't stomach the risk either change your allocation or get out of the stock market and have inflation eat away your savings.
Exactly what has always worked for me. Auto pilot investing and not looking at my accounts during down periods are my keys to success(as well as the Boglehead philosophy)I didn't check my account for well over a year at one point.

pshonore
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by pshonore » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:15 pm

Finance-MD wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:03 am
A few people mentioned/suggested the OP consider TLH due to this loss.

I apologize if this is a thread hijack- moderators please feel free to move - but do people think this 1.5% percentage drop would be big enough to safely put in an order for a TLH mutual fund exchange?

For example.
Let's say OP put in a buy order of $500,000 of VTSAX Total stock market mutual fund in vanguard on Thursday during the day and owns it by that night. Then the following day it is down to $493,000
OP sees the $7000 loss and wants to harvest.
He then puts an exchange order of all of VTSAX for VLCAX, vanguard large cap.
The mutual fund exchange happens at the end of the following business day.
Isn't there a risk that with daily fluctuation VTSAX will have recovered prior to the exchange of the fund and the loss is gone before it's harvested?
I haven't done a TLH with vanguard mutual funds yet but would do one if I weren't worried about this.
Is there a way to make a mutual fund exchange order that only goes through if there is still a loss?
Thanks!
I think the time to THL (and exchange) is approx 3:30 of the day of the big loss.

michaeljc70
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by michaeljc70 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:44 pm

Alex GR wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:39 pm
...Should I change the allocation if this kind of downswing bothers me? :confused
You can. How will you feel though when everyone else's portfolio (with similar $$) goes up $7k on a good stocks day and yours goes up $700?

pkcrafter
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by pkcrafter » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:26 pm

Alex wrote:
Also, I should have mentioned in the beginning that this is a new portfolio
I suspected your portfolio was new because it looks like it was designed on recent performance. That isn't the best way to design a good portfolio.

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

Alex GR
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by Alex GR » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:33 pm

pkcrafter wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:26 pm
Alex wrote:
Also, I should have mentioned in the beginning that this is a new portfolio
I suspected your portfolio was new because it looks like it was designed on recent performance. That isn't the best way to design a good portfolio.

Paul
Paul,
Yes there may be some truth to that. What changes would you recommend (besides getting rid of POGRX-I am aware of that one) so alleviate this problem? Thanks!

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Youngblood
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by Youngblood » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:37 pm

Alex GR wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:35 am
Rob5TCP wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:16 pm
Alex GR wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:39 pm
Hi everyone,
I lost $7000 today in one day. My portfolio is below.
Ironically, I've just returned from a store where I was arguing with a cashier over 0.50 cents! Got home and saw that the portfolio went down by $7k... :oops:
Should I change the allocation if this kind of downswing bothers me? :confused
The portfolio is 72/28 with 55% U.S. Stock, 28% U.S. Bond and 17% International Stock.

VOO Vanguard 500 Index Fund 32%
VOE Vanguard Mid-Cap Value ETF 5%
VBR Vanguard Small-Cap Value ETF 13%
POGRX PRIMECAP Odyssey Growth Fund 5%
BIV Vanguard Intermediate-Term Bond ETF 19%
PONDX PIMCO Income Fund Class D 9%
VXUS Vanguard Total International Stock ETF International 12%
VWO Vanguard FTSE Emerging Markets ETF International 2%
SFVLX Seafarer Overseas Value Fund International 3%

As mentioned above, if a $7k loss is causing lost sleep; what will happen when the day comes and you have $50,000 or $100,000 loss (or even more).
You need to find what level you are comfortable to withstand the next inevitable bear market. Adjust your risk levels so you can ride out the next bear market (when it comes - which it inevitability will)
Yes, theoretically I understand that I must stick to the plan and stay in the market no matter what, and then over a period of 20-25 years it should be around 7% a year average.
But you mention a drop of $100k in a day or over a few days. The problem with this is when I think about what I have to do to earn $100k in my place of work, it makes me go crazy. I mean you have no idea how much stress and what I personally have to go through to save $100k.
I know exactly what you mean. I was a teacher for nearly 30 years (teacher salaries are definitely not commensurate with the amount of blood, sweat and tears). So during the 90's when the daily fluctuations of my portfolio amounted of to my yearly salary...

I agree with the previous posters Tamalak and Saltycaper, the repricing of securities amounts to real losses and gains. Thinking they are not real losses is simply rationalizing. How many people anywhere would be cheering and saying I didn't lose any money because I didn't sell and wow am I happy because the DOW is now at 1,000 and it's a great buying opportunity. Not many.
"I made my money by selling too soon." | Bernard M. Baruch

pkcrafter
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by pkcrafter » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:11 pm

What changes would you recommend (besides getting rid of POGRX-I am aware of that one) so alleviate this problem? Thanks!

Vanguard Total stock Market VTI

VOO Vanguard 500 Index Fund 32%
VOE Vanguard Mid-Cap Value ETF 5%
VBR Vanguard Small-Cap Value ETF 13%
POGRX PRIMECAP Odyssey Growth Fund 5%
BIV Vanguard Intermediate-Term Bond ETF 19%
PONDX PIMCO Income Fund Class D 9%
VXUS Vanguard Total International Stock ETF International 12%
VWO Vanguard FTSE Emerging Markets ETF International 2%
SFVLX Seafarer Overseas Value Fund International 3%


You might want to work toward the 3 fund portfolio. All these replies and I don't think anyone has posted it.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=88005

What you experienced the other day was just normal volatility. It goes on all the time. But don't feel like you are alone, people do not like volatility and it is part of the reason why the equity risk premium is as high as it is.

“Even the years that we refer to as the “good” ones, in retrospect, test our mettle. For example, between 1950 and 2014, a span of 65 years, the S&P 500 ended the year with a gain 51 times (or in almost 80% of them). Not bad. But in how many of those up years do you think investors would’ve found themselves in a “losing” position at some point in the year. Every. Single. One.
http://timmaurer.com/2015/11/23/if-you- ... -tomorrow/

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

Pilgrim211
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by Pilgrim211 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:18 pm

I still consider myself a newbie to investing. I by nature tend to look at detail, and knew that could lead to disaster with investing. I could quickly fall into a market-timing pitfall and drive myself nutty. I needed to quickly sort out how to respond when potentially faced with "losses" or "gains" in value in a single day. I realized a (paper) loss of several thousand dollars in a day might freak me out unless I could set it into a larger context.

What has helped me is giving myself permission to "look" daily if I wish, but track (record) on a monthly or quarterly basis instead. It forces me to consider the longer time-frame on both upside and downside. It may not work for others, but for me it's been beneficial.

Fallible
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by Fallible » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:40 pm

Pilgrim211 wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:18 pm
I still consider myself a newbie to investing. I by nature tend to look at detail, and knew that could lead to disaster with investing. I could quickly fall into a market-timing pitfall and drive myself nutty. I needed to quickly sort out how to respond when potentially faced with "losses" or "gains" in value in a single day. I realized a (paper) loss of several thousand dollars in a day might freak me out unless I could set it into a larger context.

What has helped me is giving myself permission to "look" daily if I wish, but track (record) on a monthly or quarterly basis instead. It forces me to consider the longer time-frame on both upside and downside. It may not work for others, but for me it's been beneficial.
I don't know how new you are to investing, but I would say you've moved beyond the "newbie" stage. Your awareness of the behavioral pitfalls of investing is one reason, and your understanding of yourself as an investor is another. You also know that the long-term "larger context" is what's important, not short-term market volatility. Knowing all that, you can determine what works for you, and that's what investing is all about. :thumbsup

I wonder if you have a written Investment Policy Statement, which, in addition to listing your actual investments, would include the approaches you've described above. It's an excellent reminder when market waters really get rough.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investm ... _statement

Also, if you haven't already seen it, the wiki has a page on "Behavioral Pitfalls."
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Behavioral_pitfalls
Bogleheads® wiki | Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle

Pilgrim211
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by Pilgrim211 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:35 pm

Thanks, Fallible, for your kind words. Yes, I have written an IPS - at least an initial one, knowing it may change over time as I learn. Just thought I'd share the simple thing that helps me with a one-day loss of several thousand dollars. If compared to what I earned that day, it will scare me into reacting in unwise ways. If I can keep in in the context of months or years of investing, it's far more likely I will observe and perhaps respond than react. :happy

pasadena
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by pasadena » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:13 pm

Pilgrim211 wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:35 pm
Thanks, Fallible, for your kind words. Yes, I have written an IPS - at least an initial one, knowing it may change over time as I learn. Just thought I'd share the simple thing that helps me with a one-day loss of several thousand dollars. If compared to what I earned that day, it will scare me into reacting in unwise ways. If I can keep in in the context of months or years of investing, it's far more likely I will observe and perhaps respond than react. :happy
I'm doing the same thing as you. I look every day, and normally shrug my shoulders - it's more curiosity than anything else, as I'm still learning. But I only record monthly (by "bucket", not by fund), so everything in between is noise.

If I feel like I'm starting to be uncomfortable, I widen my view. For example, that dip last week? Took VTSAX back down at the level it was..... early July. Helps seeing the big picture. Besides, since I haven't bought any VTSAX during that time, I lost exactly nothing. *shrugs*.

khaleesi1
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by khaleesi1 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:12 pm

I lost like $600. :-(

I know just to ride it out, but it still hurts.

Fallible
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Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by Fallible » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:45 pm

pasadena wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:13 pm
Pilgrim211 wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:35 pm
Thanks, Fallible, for your kind words. Yes, I have written an IPS - at least an initial one, knowing it may change over time as I learn. Just thought I'd share the simple thing that helps me with a one-day loss of several thousand dollars. If compared to what I earned that day, it will scare me into reacting in unwise ways. If I can keep in in the context of months or years of investing, it's far more likely I will observe and perhaps respond than react. :happy
I'm doing the same thing as you. I look every day, and normally shrug my shoulders - it's more curiosity than anything else, as I'm still learning. But I only record monthly (by "bucket", not by fund), so everything in between is noise.

If I feel like I'm starting to be uncomfortable, I widen my view. For example, that dip last week? Took VTSAX back down at the level it was..... early July. Helps seeing the big picture. Besides, since I haven't bought any VTSAX during that time, I lost exactly nothing. *shrugs*.
To bring things into better perspective, i.e., to show that the market is just doing what the market has always done, it might be a good time to read about market history. A good book on this is William Bernstein's The Four Pillars of Investing, the chapter on "The History of Investing." Just before it is a quote from financial pro Larry Swedroe: "There is nothing new - only the history you haven't read." Another "Pillar" is "The Psychology of Investing," which begins, "The biggest obstacle to your investment success is staring out at you from your mirror. Human nature overflows with behavioral traits that will rob you faster than an unlucky nightime turn in Central Park."

I can share a bit of personal history: five months after I began investing along came one of the worst market crashes, October 1987. I remember having two reactions: one was that I would do nothing because I was in it for the long term and I had the time horizon. That was a good reaction. The other showed my ignorance of market history when I wondered how often was this going to happen.
:oops:
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bantam222
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:57 pm

Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by bantam222 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:11 am

Hi OP,

I usually follow the stock market throughout my workday but was very busy that day. Did not get a chance to look at my Fidelity app until I was on my way home. Found out I had lost $5,000. I think this may be my biggest single day loss ever. Put my phone back in my pocket and was rather pleased my portfolio had reached a size that could swing $5,000 in one day (relatively average "bad" day too - could have been a lot worse) 8-)

CantPassAgain
Posts: 577
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by CantPassAgain » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:44 am

dbr wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:04 am
I am going to stop posting to this Forum again because these kinds of nuance on top of nuance discussions are just too tiresome.
Hope you will reconsider, IMO you are a significant value add to this place.

S&L1940
Posts: 1591
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:19 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by S&L1940 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:50 am

LarryAllen wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:06 pm
A lot of people on here had their portfolios go down significantly more than $7k today. No biggie. Hopefully it goes back up before I retire and actually need the dough.
Finally, a benefit in not having a two comma portfolio
dollar value went down yet it was a typical blip with little pain
did not sell so loss is only on paper
as others have said, more to come
still comfortable with my ~ 50/50 allocation
Don't it always seem to go * That you don't know what you've got * Till it's gone

S&L1940
Posts: 1591
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:19 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by S&L1940 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:55 am

dbr wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:04 am

I am going to stop posting to this Forum again because these kinds of nuance on top of nuance discussions are just too tiresome.
NO, I pass up most of this stuff
Yet, I always read your posts
A bit of sanity and sense against the noise
Don't it always seem to go * That you don't know what you've got * Till it's gone

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TomatoTomahto
Posts: 7539
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Lost $7000 today in ONE DAY!

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:58 am

S&L1940 wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:55 am
dbr wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:04 am

I am going to stop posting to this Forum again because these kinds of nuance on top of nuance discussions are just too tiresome.
NO, I pass up most of this stuff
Yet, I always read your posts
A bit of sanity and sense against the noise
Sometimes, taking a week in California (or your personal equivalent) is a great idea. I just did, and came back with a much improved outlook and increased resilience. Additionally, there are some posters that I pass without reading (although I don't use the automated feature). You're one of the ones that I don't skip over, so I'd suggest that you do whatever your personal equivalent of a vacation is and come back. :sharebeer

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