Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

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cashmoney
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Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by cashmoney »

I am trying to get my 85 year old mother away from her Raymond James adviser .This joker is charging her 1.25 AUM and still selling her very High ER funds with sales loads.What book do you recommend for the main purpose of illustrating the evils of a high cost actively managed portfolio and the advisers who push them compared to a low cost index strategy in an easy to understand language.She has agreed to listen to an Audible book but I am afraid if she is overwhelmed or too bored with the subject I may not get another chance to convert her.The Little Book of Common Sense Investing seems like a good candidate but I afraid she might get bored because it is a little repetitive.Any suggestions?
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flamesabers
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by flamesabers »

Perhaps instead of an audible book, how about you just present her the numbers in terms of ER between Raymond James and inexpensive index funds? I believe Vanguard has some tools on their website you could use to illustrate the huge difference in cost between indexes and actively managed funds. If the comparison of ERs isn't enough to convince her that she's getting ripped off, I doubt an investment book will be of much help.
alex_686
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by alex_686 »

The Wolf of Wall Street by Jordan Belfort. The film adaption is pretty good. Then point out that her broker is not nearly as good as Mr. Belfort.

On a more serious note, I will be watching this tread for a good easy book to recommend.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.
JBTX
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by JBTX »

Maybe just a good Bogle or warren Buffett interview.
Quickfoot
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by Quickfoot »

Money Management Skills by The Great Courses is really good, it's also relatively short (6 hours) and she can listen to specific lectures and it comes with a great PDF supplement, usually you get a free audio book when you signup for audible. The URL to the course is: https://www.audible.com/pd/Business/Mon ... B00Q5DHLBM

"Money management can be intimidating. Fortunately, most of us only need to know a few basic principles to get our financial houses in order. Learn these principles in this comprehensive overview of what everyday people need to know to make good financial decisions. Using a scientific, evidence-based approach, Professor Finke shows how humans are hard-wired to make emotional decisions that often run counter to the best course of action when it comes to finances - and gives tips for how to avoid these common mistakes.

The goal of money management is to maximize our happiness at every stage of our lives. Whether you are a novice investor or a seasoned pro, starting your first job or contemplating retirement, these 24 straightforward lectures are an excellent primer for making successful financial decisions at every stage of your life. Professor Finke takes you on a tour of some of the most widely available financial products and tools, from mutual funds to life insurance to college savings accounts, and he offers evidence-based guidance for building a financial strategy."
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Nate79
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by Nate79 »

Does she understand that she is paying about 50% of her income in fees to her broker? 50%! (Assuming 4% withdrawal rate)

She can have an "advisor" at Vanguard for 0.3% (PAS) + low cost index fund.
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BL
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by BL »

I did a search for Jane Bryant Quinn videos and got some videos and interviews that might be useful since her book, How to make your money last, is a great resource for retirees.
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celia
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by celia »

http://topratedfirms.com/brokers/custom ... eview.aspx (sorry, print only)

Of course, she need to know that everything WRITTEN on the internet is true!
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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by oldcomputerguy »

Do this:

Total up what her investments' income was last year prior to fees. Subtract out the fees she paid to her advisor. Then, find equivalent (or as close as you can come) investments at Vanguard, do the math to figure out how much she would have made there, less fees. Then put those dollar figures in front of her.

It's easy to be comfortable with "1.25%", because it seems such a small number. But if she sees that she paid the guy (for example) $10,000 that she could have saved with index funds, that has much more impact than any audio or print book will have.

One caveat: when comparing investments, be sure to compare apples to apples. For example, don't try to compare a small-cap fund to the S&P 500.
"I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people; and if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you." (Aaron Sorkin)
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cashmoney
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by cashmoney »

oldcomputerguy wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:36 am Do this:

Total up what her investments' income was last year prior to fees. Subtract out the fees she paid to her advisor. Then, find equivalent (or as close as you can come) investments at Vanguard, do the math to figure out how much she would have made there, less fees. Then put those dollar figures in front of her.

It's easy to be comfortable with "1.25%", because it seems such a small number. But if she sees that she paid the guy (for example) $10,000 that she could have saved with index funds, that has much more impact than any audio or print book will have.

One caveat: when comparing investments, be sure to compare apples to apples. For example, don't try to compare a small-cap fund to the S&P 500.



That was my original plan but I thought it would be good to let her hear it from another " financial expert " first for creditably before I break it down it down for her.Mom has a history of taking advise from slick financial products salesman who she considers " financial experts ".Her current Raymond James adviser was recommended by a friend and he also manages my sisters sizable portfolio.Of course my mom,sister and her friend are happy with this adviser because their portfolios have done well over the last 7 years.Thanks for all the great responses!
NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by NotWhoYouThink »

Is she likely to run out of money? If not, fix yourself a nice cup of tea and watch her favorite Netflix show with her. (If she doesn't have Netflix, get if for her now and teach her to find shows she likes.)

To get her to change, you have to convince her she has made a mistake, which no one likes to admit, and we definitely don't like hearing it from our kids. Then you have to convince her that the child she raised knows more about investments than she does, and is a better judge of people than she is. Why have that kind of struggle with your mother? Or have you had success talking her into major life changes in the past?
mrc
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by mrc »

This is what did it for me and my family:

Keep Costs Low

That graph shows a ~ 1% difference in ER without loads. Make one on your own with EJ numbers with the front load and knock her socks off.

Good luck!
By the time you know enough to choose a good financial adviser, you don't need one. | bogleheads.org is my advisor: The ER is 0.0% and the advice always solid.
mptfan
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by mptfan »

Did your mother ask for your advice?
jbolden1517
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by jbolden1517 »

I think you are trying to fight two wars at once and you could end up losing both.

1) Crazy high ERs and account management fees
2) Indexing and passive

My suggestion would be to show her the funds she is invested in (the same funds if you can the closest if you can't) with no load and no account management fee. Cut 200 basis points off her expenses without changing her portfolio much at all. Then hand her a chart of the returns both ways.
Spend what time you have to get her to see what 200 basis points means.

Bogle's first book, before he became so idealogical is quite good on this: https://www.amazon.com/Bogle-Mutual-Fun ... 111908833X and does include the second point.

If she doesn't want to manage her money herself a robo-advisor is really cheap. 30 basis points beats 140. I've done a review of many of them here.

After you got her interested in costs then and only then present the case for indexing. If she switches to no load 100 basis points quality actively managed mutual funds she's saved 70% of the money. You pick up a lot of potential objections in passive vs. active investing. That is a more complex and more subtle case. There is no good counter argument against loads being a bad idea. Win the easy argument first.
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cashmoney
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by cashmoney »

NotWhoYouThink wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:17 pm Is she likely to run out of money? If not, fix yourself a nice cup of tea and watch her favorite Netflix show with her. (If she doesn't have Netflix, get if for her now and teach her to find shows she likes.)

To get her to change, you have to convince her she has made a mistake, which no one likes to admit, and we definitely don't like hearing it from our kids. Then you have to convince her that the child she raised knows more about investments than she does, and is a better judge of people than she is. Why have that kind of struggle with your mother? Or have you had success talking her into major life changes in the past?


I was making the same mistake until very recently when I found the boglehead religion .I had know idea how much the 1% AUM fee and high ERs were robbing from my retirement accounts so I consider it more that I am sharing an awakening that I had with my mother more than pointing out that she made a mistake. Between the ages of 67-75 my mother was sold sold quite a few Variable Annuities that were churned throughout the years by the same " adviser" that caused her retirement funding outlook from very good to marginal so she thinks her Raymond James adviser is a saint because he doesn't sell annuities.Just trying to get her to understand that even though the adviser she has now may be a step above what she had before he still isn't doing her any favors.
41Fin
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by 41Fin »

Not an audible book but the Freakanomics podcast recently had an episode called "The stupidest Thing You can do with Your Money" that touches on the subject.

IF she has the technology to listen it may be worthwhile.
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onthecusp
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by onthecusp »

You might try Tony Robbins Unshakable. Read/listen to it yourself first to be sure as I have not read it myself. It is available from audible.com.

A friend started the path to Boggleheads, and away from their adviser, with a longer TR book, Money Master the Game. Unshakable seems to be shorter and more to the point. I get the impression that it isn't great, or uniformly in line with suggestions here, but it warns about the very thing you need her to focus on, predatory advisers. What ever else Tony is, he is a persuader.
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bigROI
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by bigROI »

Compute the sum of the annual fees with the 1.25% adviser and the .3% VG service, compound this over 10 or 15 years to show how much she is throwing away. Keep the argument simple and focused, get Vanguard on the phone to discuss the service so you have a 3rd party making the case. Funny as family members don't always get trust, but the "professionals" sometimes get the favor.
A penny saved is much more then a penny earned when you consider the tax/SS/medicare cut.
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Re: Which Audible book for Mom to convince her to get away from Raymond James

Post by Vanguard Fan 1367 »

I would recommend something by John Bogle. I am pretty sure you can get The Little Book of Common Sense Investing if you think she would like something little. Common Sense on Mutual Fund Investing is another great choice. For years I couldn't get excited about reading Bogle but now that I have I am grateful and really appreciate his wisdom. I have more than paid back my 22 bucks that I spent on "The John Bogle Reader."
Upton Sinclair: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
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