[Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next]

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[Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next]

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Fallible
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by Fallible »

See the wiki's "Managing a Windfall," and be sure she goes slowly and takes as much time as she needs, more than a couple of months.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Managing_a_windfall
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by chevca »

Wow! Sorry, I don't know the answer to the question. But, congrats to her... That's a life changing windfall.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by aristotelian »

For absolute safety she should spread it across multiple savings accounts each up to the FDIC limit. A money market account with Vanguard would probably be "safe enough".
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by TomatoTomahto »

She has already broken the cardinal rule: TELL NO ONE UNTIL YOU HAVE THINGS FIGURED OUT!
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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celia
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by celia »

Follow the recommendations on the wiki pages. She also shouldn't tell anyone about it or she will be asked about it constantly and be asked for "loans".

She should also plan for the tax impact. Even a 0.10% growth on $7,000,000 will be $7,000 of interest or dividends that will be taxed.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by bloom2708 »

Send her to Boglheads to read, learn, ask questions. :D
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by EnjoyIt »

splitting up $7 million into 28 different FDIC accounts at $250k each to be FDIC insured is probably the safest thing to do though appears very cumbersome.

She already has an account at Vanguard. I would put it all in the Vanguard prime money market account (VMMXX) which will earn currently 1.1% which is about what a high yield savings account earns. If she is in the top tax bracket she can put her cash into Vanguard Municipal Money Market Fund (VMSXX.) It is currently paying 0.71% federal tax free.

The above comments to read the Wiki is paramount and to obviously do nothing until she is 100% ready. There is little to no harm just allowing it to grow at 1.1% for a year or so.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by goingup »

I'd keep it simple and stick with Vanguard. Vanguard MM, or treasury funds would be plenty safe. I would not get too wrapped up with FDIC limits, because it would be a terrific hassle to deal with the low limits of $250K per account.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by bbretire »

I too had a recent windfall. I have parked the funds in the CDARS (Certificate of Deposit Account Registry System) program. Look it up. This is a network of mostly smaller banks that provide large investors an easy mechanism to allocate funds across the network, but only via dealing with one primary bank. The amount at each network bank should be less than the $250,000 FDIC limit to enjoy the insurance benefit. The host bank knows how to do this. In your friend's case 30 banks would come into play. You get one statement (from the host bank) for the entire amount. Various (and multiple) CD maturities are available. Check the rates! I found this was a reasonable route to take while I catch my breath and figure out what to do - ultimately.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by InvestorThom »

TomatoTomahto wrote:She has already broken the cardinal rule: TELL NO ONE UNTIL YOU HAVE THINGS FIGURED OUT!
TELL NO ONE even after you have things figured out!

Also, she needs more than financial/investing/tax advice, she needs legal advice since she's never had this kind of wealth.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by welderwannabe »

Dealing with FDIC insurance on that is a PITA. You could use Fidelty cash management but I think they only split it up amongst 5 banks, giving you 1.25M.

What about purchasing a 26 week TBill?
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by Gill »

Buy US Treasury Bills
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by jbolden1517 »

aristotelian wrote:For absolute safety she should spread it across multiple savings accounts each up to the FDIC limit. A money market account with Vanguard would probably be "safe enough".
FWIW Fidelity's cash management account (not the brokerage account) will do this automatically for her. They automatically register you with multiple banks in interest bearing savings accounts when you deposit more than $250k.

Honestly though. $7m is not much money to Vanguard or any other broker. She's doing well but I think she sounds like she's freaking out about nothing. If she can't handle the risk of a money market she's going to have a tough time investing this money. And if she can't invest she will erode the money through fear.

She probably really needs to talk to a financial advisor. I'd recommend Larry Swedroe's firm: http://buckinghamadvisor.com/ .
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by livesoft »

I think the idea to use FDIC-insured CDs is ridiculous for this amount of money. US Treasuries are as safe as any CD, so a Vanguard MM fund that invests in US Treasuries is probably the simplest and safest for her. That would be Vanguard Federal Money Market fund VMFXX which is also used as the cash sweep account at Vanguard. Vanguard Prime Money Market is not the same thing.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by bloom2708 »

livesoft wrote:I think the idea to use FDIC-insured CDs is ridiculous for this amount of money. US Treasuries are as safe as any CD, so a Vanguard MM fund that invests in US Treasuries is probably the simplest and safest for her. That would be Vanguard Federal Money Market fund VMFXX which is also used as the cash sweep account at Vanguard. Vanguard Prime Money Market is not the same thing.
+1 the mere thought of dealing with 32 banks for 1 year is :shock: .

I would look at Vanguard only. Start with Vanguard Federal Money Market fund VMFXX until a clear plan is developed. A year of Personal Advisory Service (.3%) for the windfall-ee to gain confidence would be within reason.

With that amount of money, virtually any asset allocation with low cost index funds will work.

P.S. I would like to have a similar windfall, just for the rest of my life, just to see if I could do it. :wink:
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by nimo956 »

livesoft wrote:I think the idea to use FDIC-insured CDs is ridiculous for this amount of money. US Treasuries are as safe as any CD, so a Vanguard MM fund that invests in US Treasuries is probably the simplest and safest for her. That would be Vanguard Federal Money Market fund VMFXX which is also used as the cash sweep account at Vanguard. Vanguard Prime Money Market is not the same thing.
+1 for Vanguard Federal Money Market fund VMFXX
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by Gill »

Agreed it would be nuts to use multiple banks. US Treasuries, Bills or otherwise, is really the only sensible short term safe investment for this amount of money.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Gill wrote:Buy US Treasury Bills
Gill
+1 - Treasury Bills are offered in 4 week, 13 week, 26 week and 52 week terms. That is 1 month, 3 months and 1 week, six months and 1 year. The bills are offered at auction at a discount, upon maturity you will receive the full face value of bill, the difference between purchase price and value at maturity is interest. Treasury Bill interest is exempt from state and local income taxes, but is federally taxable.

While there is more risk in a NY Muni Money Market fund, if your friend is/are completely risk-averse, I would avoid it.

Now, the next thing your friend should do is keep their mouth SHUT. If you pursue the FDIC insured CD option - guess what? You have effectively opened your BIG MOUTH and the cat will be out of the bag. Then, the bank's financial advisor or bank manager is going to call you for a cup of coffee chat where they will do their best to convince you they are more astute in matters of money management than Vanguard/Blackrock or the Bogleheads. Don't fall for it.

Don't tell friends/family/classmates/coworkers. Keep your mouth zipped. Nothing, and I mean nothing will attract gold diggers and flies faster than the thought of easy money. You will hear all sorts of sob stories, some may be true, but can all of them be true and how will you know?
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by EnjoyIt »

being the one who recommended the prime money market account with its higher yield (1.1%), I am curious why the federal money market is better (0.93%.) Can anyone explain it? Is there really any risk in a prime money market account?
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by welderwannabe »

One of the reasons I like T-bills in this case is it locks the money up for a bit of time to help them think. Of course TBills are liquid, but if you buy them through treasury direct you would have to go through the trouble of transferring the securities to a broker and selling them.

Having them in bills provides at least a little hurdle to cashing them out and blowing the cash.

A 26 week bill gives the person a good 6 months to think.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by NotWhoYouThink »

As to the original question, the Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund is perfect - safe and liquid.

Then she needs to not tell anyone else except perhaps a pastor. Not even a financial advisor, yet. Maybe you can do some research for her, but she needs to do enough to figure out what kind of financial advisor, if any, she wants.

And then she'll have to get over the feeling that it needs to be somewhere very extremely safe. Life is full of risk. I'm comfortable with stock and bond mutual funds and ETFs, and with CDs and money market funds. If she isn't, she's going to have a miserable life. The chances of a total breakdown in the financial system that makes all her investments worthless is somewhere around nil, and she can't do anything about it if it does happen. So she should be planning for likely events, and contemplating AA and charitable giving and things that are likely and rational.

Can she live on 3-4% of this money a year, adjusted for inflation? If so, life will be easy. If not, what does she want to do now?
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

EnjoyIt wrote:being the one who recommended the prime money market account with its higher yield (1.1%), I am curious why the federal money market is better (0.93%.) Can anyone explain it? Is there really any risk in a prime money market account?
In 2009, GE had a hard time selling its commercial paper which was rated A1 Prime to investors. The Prime Money Market fund has 3.8% in CP paper, tell me what happens to your a) yield and b) return of capital if issuers run into a 2009 event again? Yes, there is risk in Prime Money Market fund. Just ask the holders of the First Reserve fund how it played out for them.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

NotWhoYouThink wrote:As to the original question, the Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund is perfect - safe and liquid.

Then she needs to not tell anyone else except perhaps a pastor. Not even a financial advisor, yet. Maybe you can do some research for her, but she needs to do enough to figure out what kind of financial advisor, if any, she wants.



Can she live on 3-4% of this money a year, adjusted for inflation? If so, life will be easy. If not, what does she want to do now?
Not even the pastor, as the money will interest them as well. Keep the OP's friend mouth quiet.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by Dottie57 »

EnjoyIt wrote:being the one who recommended the prime money market account with its higher yield (1.1%), I am curious why the federal money market is better (0.93%.) Can anyone explain it? Is there really any risk in a prime money market account?

I think there is a small difference in risk. Prime MM holds things other than U.S. government instruments. So slightly more risk. But the returns show not much difference.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by mouses »

NotWhoYouThink wrote: Then she needs to not tell anyone else except perhaps a pastor.
I would not tell her pastor. It is incorrect to think that they keep information confidential. And even if they did, she would be hit up for all sorts of major projects for the church.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by NotWhoYouThink »

Wow, lots of mistrust here. And I get it, there are bad apples in every profession. But she is married and has already told at least one person outside the family (OP). It makes me think she and her spouse are not prepared to deal with this without help. And a financial advisor is not the next person to tell, because then you know she is going to get a sales pitch. Someone who is ethically bound to secrecy would be nice.

A family law specialist maybe? A licensed therapist? Depending on whether this is a payout from a start-up, or an inheritance from her family, there could be different recommendations on how to treat it within the marriage. And depending on how long she has known about it, she may or may not have had time to think about how to handle this much money.

But the worrying about investing now given current events is problematic. There have always been current events, politics, instability, uncertainty, strife and fear. Always. There always will be. Now seems pretty calm and stable to me. But she has evidently never had enough to worry about losing, so she wasn't worried about it. Her sudden windfall didn't make the rest of the world less safe, she just needs to learn more about that. On to the wiki.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by H-Town »

TomatoTomahto wrote:She has already broken the cardinal rule: TELL NO ONE UNTIL YOU HAVE THINGS FIGURED OUT!
HAhaha. It'd be: TELL NO ONE. PERIOD.

OP: she needs a CPA as well. Make sure that all FMV are noted correctly at the date of inheritance. She needs to establish all her cost basis. Also get a lawyer to review the document, etc.

She should not worry about money parking at Money Market.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by jbolden1517 »

EnjoyIt wrote:being the one who recommended the prime money market account with its higher yield (1.1%), I am curious why the federal money market is better (0.93%.) Can anyone explain it? Is there really any risk in a prime money market account?
A prime money market consists of assets that owed by banks. A treasure money markets consist of assets which carry the full faith and credit of the United States. Now in terms of risk you have to come up with extreme examples. Say for example the government was overthrown in a coup and then only some states recognized the new government and with some states splitting off. A new government is elected in the remaining states. During the turmoil of the coup many banks are destroyed. You could be in a situation where none of the new governments recognize the bank's debt as their debt or debt on their new banking system at all. You have no one to make a claim against to get paid, you are just one of the people who lost money during "the troubles". Conversely with a treasury bill that's a full faith obligation of the government. Any new government that arose would see it as their debt both principal and interest.

Likely. Heck no. Worth 17 basis points. Heck no. But there is a difference.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by livesoft »

Maybe the money is coming from Nigeria?
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by jebmke »

Treasury MM interest would probably be mostly/all exempt from state income taxes. If you are worried about safety of treasuries there is nowhere to hide.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by TomatoTomahto »

thangngo wrote:
TomatoTomahto wrote:She has already broken the cardinal rule: TELL NO ONE UNTIL YOU HAVE THINGS FIGURED OUT!
HAhaha. It'd be: TELL NO ONE. PERIOD.

OP: she needs a CPA as well. Make sure that all FMV are noted correctly at the date of inheritance. She needs to establish all her cost basis. Also get a lawyer to review the document, etc.

She should not worry about money parking at Money Market.
And, she should make the CPA guess or be psychic because she's telling no one?
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by H-Town »

TomatoTomahto wrote:
thangngo wrote:
TomatoTomahto wrote:She has already broken the cardinal rule: TELL NO ONE UNTIL YOU HAVE THINGS FIGURED OUT!
HAhaha. It'd be: TELL NO ONE. PERIOD.

OP: she needs a CPA as well. Make sure that all FMV are noted correctly at the date of inheritance. She needs to establish all her cost basis. Also get a lawyer to review the document, etc.

She should not worry about money parking at Money Market.
And, she should make the CPA guess or be psychic because she's telling no one?
She can do what I suspect the OP is doing now... "asking for a friend".

In all seriousness, I would tell no one except my spouse (not even children) and family lawyer & CPA.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by TomatoTomahto »

thangngo wrote:In all seriousness, I would tell no one except my spouse (not even children) and family lawyer & CPA.
I agree. Definitely not a local banker, or, heaven forbid, a pastor (see what I did there?). Nor would I take it to a B&M brokerage.

IME, online deposit to Vanguard is the only time I haven't been called by people offering us help
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by wrongfunds »

livesoft wrote:Maybe the money is coming from Nigeria?
That was the first thing that I thought. Nobody and I mean nobody gets "surprise" $7M as windfall.
You always know if you are going to get large inheritance or not.

The post tax $7M wired to location of her choice as soon as she sends her ssn and birthday, right? And the entity giving her after tax money knows how much the taxes would have been? Which kind of windfall is tax exempt? No malpractice award will be this big regardless of the unfortunate operation. Besides, that will not come as a surprise to that person.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by TomatoTomahto »

wrongfunds wrote:
livesoft wrote:Maybe the money is coming from Nigeria?
That was the first thing that I thought. Nobody and I mean nobody gets "surprise" $7M as windfall.
You always know if you are going to get large inheritance or not.
Or, perhaps it's said that way to rationalize not having prepared for the event.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by NotWhoYouThink »

We don't know how sudden or how much of a surprise this is. Maybe this is from the sale of a business, or maybe Great Aunt Tilly has been lingering for years in that big house and finally passed. All we've heard is that one married individual is getting more money than she is used to having, and getting it all at once and soon. And that she has already started talking about it to people with internet accounts.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by wrongfunds »

The "post tax" part is not computing with me but I do not know anything about inheritance etc. If the aunt had $7M estate and OP was sole beneficiary, would she get it all and the gummit gets nothing? Or the estate has already paid the taxes on $12M estate and left over is being wired to her?

Do you see any reason why we were given the details about it being $7M and it being post-tax and it being complete surprise?
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

This is what the OP should do:
1) tell no one. Deny it if asked.
2) Depending on whom the monies legally belong to: a) wife only, b) wife and spouse only, c) husband only
2) Open Vanguard brokerage account in exact legal title as the monies are owed to have monies wired to that
4) Instruct Vanguard to purchase at the very next auction 25% of account value in tranches of 13 weeks, 26 weeks and final 50% in a 52 week bill. Monies will be available in 6 months, enough time for OP's friend to gain bearing.
5) Call up GEICO or Liberty Mutual or State Farm and tell them you are interested in obtaining an umbrella policy. You need a buffer between you and frivolous lawsuits filed for car accidents, libel/slander. I recommend $5 million in coverage, with an absolute minimum of $3 million. Pay the premium, don't haggle on price, it will be well worth piece of mind.
6) Next, you need to consult with best legal minds in estates and trusts. Start looking up the Martindale directory of top ten law firms in NYC who solely focus on creating trusts which add another form of legal protections between the gold diggers and the monies. Of course, if you commit an intentional felony or other aggrieved crime, all bets are off.
7) Keep your mouth shut! Don't go out and buy a brand new mink, cherry red porsche or house. Keep current lifestyle the SAME!! Just until you have all of your pegs squared away. That should take anywhere from 6 months to 18 months. A short time for a very prosperous future IF you play your cards right and take the advice. Good Luck!
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

TomatoTomahto wrote:
wrongfunds wrote:
livesoft wrote:Maybe the money is coming from Nigeria?
That was the first thing that I thought. Nobody and I mean nobody gets "surprise" $7M as windfall.
You always know if you are going to get large inheritance or not.
Or, perhaps it's said that way to rationalize not having prepared for the event.
Or maybe she won the cash for life game from NYS lottery which just had an undisclosed winner about 4 weeks ago. It's cash lump sum.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by goingup »

wrongfunds wrote:Do you see any reason why we were given the details about it being $7M and it being post-tax and it being complete surprise?
No where in the post does it say it's a complete surprise. It sounds as though the OP is completely surprised at his friend's windfall.

A typical scenario is that you know Grandma included you in her will, but you don't know how much or exactly when the estate will settle. So now she knows how much and that it will be wired soon. Hence the urgency.
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by AntsOnTheMarch »

Asking a financial advisor at a bank was a mistake, IMO. Why? He is a salesman. He has identified her fears and is making her feel comfortable by suggesting an alternative (vanguard) or he will park it "for free." It's like trying to lure a squirrel over. He doesn't want to make any sudden movements.

For my next move, I would suggest...

1. Get money to her vanguard account.

2. If contacted again by the financial advisor, say
Thank you. I have taken your advice and parked it in a vanguard money market while I decide what to do next. Done deal.
3. Be concerned that if she talks to financial advisor again before she moves money, there's a high probability that the money will end up at that bank and she will come to regret the fees.

4. Realize that vanguard can provide advisor services as well (should she need them). I haven't checked but the fees will likely be cheap or free in her case.
https://investor.vanguard.com/financial ... ial-advice

5. Ask herself, if my fear is debt ceiling, political instability, solvency of US and world economic collapse, how is Bank xyz better able to protect my money than vanguard? If the answer is not at all, why let them and their fees at my money?

6. If she is concerned about debt ceiling, political instability, solvency of US and world economic collapse during the next few months, she is letting fear overtake her and this will likely lead to bad decisions. I suppose buy a house with a back yard and bury gold bars might be an option.
Last edited by AntsOnTheMarch on Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Eric76
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by Eric76 »

Anything wrong with dumping it all in BSV until you figure it out?
trueblueky
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Re: Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next

Post by trueblueky »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:25 pm This is what the OP should do:
1) tell no one. Deny it if asked.
2) Depending on whom the monies legally belong to: a) wife only, b) wife and spouse only, c) husband only
2) Open Vanguard brokerage account in exact legal title as the monies are owed to have monies wired to that
4) Instruct Vanguard to purchase at the very next auction 25% of account value in tranches of 13 weeks, 26 weeks and final 50% in a 52 week bill. Monies will be available in 6 months, enough time for OP's friend to gain bearing.
5) Call up GEICO or Liberty Mutual or State Farm and tell them you are interested in obtaining an umbrella policy. You need a buffer between you and frivolous lawsuits filed for car accidents, libel/slander. I recommend $5 million in coverage, with an absolute minimum of $3 million. Pay the premium, don't haggle on price, it will be well worth piece of mind.
6) Next, you need to consult with best legal minds in estates and trusts. Start looking up the Martindale directory of top ten law firms in NYC who solely focus on creating trusts which add another form of legal protections between the gold diggers and the monies. Of course, if you commit an intentional felony or other aggrieved crime, all bets are off.
7) Keep your mouth shut! Don't go out and buy a brand new mink, cherry red porsche or house. Keep current lifestyle the SAME!! Just until you have all of your pegs squared away. That should take anywhere from 6 months to 18 months. A short time for a very prosperous future IF you play your cards right and take the advice. Good Luck!
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Re: [Stashing a windfall in the safest possible place while deciding what to do next]

Post by LadyGeek »

The OP has removed the post content, there's nothing more to do here.

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