I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

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Topic Author
tjhar
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I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by tjhar »

I just received what appears to be a FACTA-related form from one of my home country's bank.

I'm not a US citizen or green card resident, but I am a "tax resident", so does this apply? I came to the US 3 years ago on a H1-B visa, so why is FACTA coming after me?

Basically the form is asking if I am a US citizen/resident. If I am, they are asking for my SSN. Supposedly so that they can send information to the IRS.

I am not inclined to give my SSN to my home country. It is a corrupt place, with state-controlled banks and entities, so giving my US information means giving sensitive information to the home government, and there is no way in hell that I am giving any of my US-relevant information. It's none of their business. I have intentionally avoided contact with them since I got here, unless absolutely necessary to renew passport which I did last year.

What would the possible repercussions be if I just send back the form saying I am not a US citizen/resident? I have no money in my home country also, except for $1000 in that bank.
rr2
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by rr2 »

Do you need that account to remain open. If not, just close that bank account and be done with it.
Topic Author
tjhar
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by tjhar »

rr2 wrote:Do you need that account to remain open. If not, just close that bank account and be done with it.
Preferably yes, because I still have some bills to pay annually in my home country. But other than that, no.
AlohaJoe
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by AlohaJoe »

tjhar wrote:there is no way in hell that I am giving any of my US-relevant information. It's none of their business.

What would the possible repercussions be if I just send back the form saying I am not a US citizen/resident? I have no money in my home country also, except for $1000 in that bank.
It is their business. The US made it their business. That's the whole point of FATCA.

If you lie and don't provide the SSN then you are also breaking US law, as I understand it, which is trying to prevent tax evasion (mostly) and money laundering (a tiny bit).

The easiest thing is to shut down the account.
Topic Author
tjhar
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by tjhar »

But there is no money there, except for a few thousand that earn no interest, no dividends, no income whatsoever.

The money is also insulated from my money in the US. I don't transfer money out of the country.
AlohaJoe
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by AlohaJoe »

tjhar wrote:But there is no money there, except for a few thousand that earn no interest, no dividends, no income whatsoever.

The money is also insulated from my money in the US. I don't transfer money out of the country.
It doesn't matter to the US. You've been filing the FBAR/FinCEF 1114 every year to report the account, right?

FWIW, I also live outside the US and share your frustrations at what feels like overreach from FATCA.

But I also know how the US punishes banks that don't do this. If the US finds out a foreign bank had accounts that aren't reported the consequences can be severe.
*3!4!/5!
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Re: I got a FATCA-related form from my home country?

Post by *3!4!/5! »

AlohaJoe wrote:It doesn't matter to the US. You've been filing the FBAR/FinCEF 1114 every year to report the account, right?
Why? The balance is $1000, so below threshold.
tjhar wrote:I'm not a US citizen or green card resident, but I am a "tax resident", so does this apply? I came to the US 3 years ago on a H1-B visa, so why is FACTA coming after me?
Good question. I don't know the answer. It would be totally unsurprising to get this paperwork for a US citizen or green card resident.

I found all this stuff so annoying that I closed my non-US account.
Last edited by *3!4!/5! on Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
AlohaJoe
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by AlohaJoe »

*3!4!/5! wrote:
AlohaJoe wrote:It doesn't matter to the US. You've been filing the FBAR/FinCEF 1114 every year to report the account, right?
Why? The balance is $1000, so below threshold.
Good point, I forgot about the minimum. I guess I've been lucky enough to always be over it.
*3!4!/5!
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Re: I got a FATCA-related form from my home country?

Post by *3!4!/5! »

tjhar wrote:FACTA
FATCA
Last edited by *3!4!/5! on Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
tjhar
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by tjhar »

So FACTA does not apply if there is less than $1k in the account?

I did a google and it says $10k is the limit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Secr ... equirement
Last edited by tjhar on Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
tjhar
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by tjhar »

AlohaJoe wrote:
tjhar wrote:But there is no money there, except for a few thousand that earn no interest, no dividends, no income whatsoever.

The money is also insulated from my money in the US. I don't transfer money out of the country.
It doesn't matter to the US. You've been filing the FBAR/FinCEF 1114 every year to report the account, right?

FWIW, I also live outside the US and share your frustrations at what feels like overreach from FATCA.

But I also know how the US punishes banks that don't do this. If the US finds out a foreign bank had accounts that aren't reported the consequences can be severe.
No, how is the average joe supposed to know that they have to file FBAR/FinCEF when they are living in the US? I don't recall seeing that on H&R Block....
Topic Author
tjhar
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by tjhar »

And does it matter than the foreign account is a joint account with a family member who is not a US citizen/resident/person/whatever?

In fact, the money is arguably "not mine". I only use it once a year to pay some bills in the home country, and other than that I have told my family the money is free for them to use, just top it up whenever the bills are due.

This is really ridiculous....
*3!4!/5!
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Re: I got a FATCA-related form from my home country?

Post by *3!4!/5! »

tjhar wrote:And does it matter than the foreign account is a joint account with a family member who is not a US citizen/resident/person/whatever?

In fact, the money is arguably "not mine". I only use it once a year to pay some bills in the home country, and other than that I have told my family the money is free for them to use, just top it up whenever the bills are due.

This is really ridiculous....
It is ridiculous, but don't take it lightly. It might be better to take your name off that account, otherwise the US considers it yours for tax and reporting purposes. Even if you don't have to file FBAR (total $10k overseas), you have to report any interest on your taxes. I don't know if the paperwork your foreign bank sent you is required for small balances.
Last edited by *3!4!/5! on Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
TravelGeek
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by TravelGeek »

tjhar wrote:
No, how is the average joe supposed to know that they have to file FBAR/FinCEF when they are living in the US? I don't recall seeing that on H&R Block....
TurboTax asks about foreign accounts and advises (if appropriate) about the filing requirement.

Also see https://www.irs.gov/uac/rda-2017-01-11- ... n-form-114
tjhar wrote:And does it matter than the foreign account is a joint account with a family member who is not a US citizen/resident/person/whatever?

In fact, the money is arguably "not mine". I only use it once a year to pay some bills in the home country, and other than that I have told my family the money is free for them to use, just top it up whenever the bills are due.

This is really ridiculous....
If you have authority about the account, you have to report it. If the money is really your family's, why not close the account, give them the money and ask I feel the would mind paying your bills. If you have no signing authority, it isn't your account.

Deadline for filing FBAR this year is April 18.
rr2
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by rr2 »

tjhar wrote:And does it matter than the foreign account is a joint account with a family member who is not a US citizen/resident/person/whatever?

In fact, the money is arguably "not mine". I only use it once a year to pay some bills in the home country, and other than that I have told my family the money is free for them to use, just top it up whenever the bills are due.

This is really ridiculous....
If it were me, I'd close the account and have my family member pay my bill. It is very easy to transfer money from the US to foreign bank accounts (in India for example) with very low fees (less than $5).
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Re: I got a FATCA-related form from my home country?

Post by *3!4!/5! »

TravelGeek wrote:Deadline for filing FBAR this year is April 18.
Wait? Isn't it June 30? Anyway, doesn't seem to apply to OP.
Last edited by *3!4!/5! on Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
TravelGeek
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by TravelGeek »

*3!4!/5! wrote:
TravelGeek wrote:Deadline for filing FBAR this year is April 18.
Wait? Isn't it June 30? Anyway, doesn't seem to apply to OP.
That used to be the deadline, but it has changed.

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releas ... te-fbars-0

Immediate Release
December 16, 2016

The new annual due date for filing Reports of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) for foreign financial accounts is April 15. This date change was mandated by the Surface Transportation and Veterans Health Care Choice Improvement Act of 2015, Public Law 114-41 (the Act). Specifically, section 2006(b)(11) of the Act changes the FBAR due date to April 15 to coincide with the Federal income tax filing season. The Act also mandates a maximum six-month extension of the filing deadline. To implement the statute with minimal burden to the public and FinCEN, FinCEN will grant filers failing to meet the FBAR annual due date of April 15 an automatic extension to October 15 each year. Accordingly, specific requests for this extension are not required. (Please note: The due date for FBAR filings for foreign financial accounts maintained during calendar year 2016 is April 18, 2017, consistent with the Federal income tax due date.)


(what my foreign accounts have to do with surface transportation and veterans health care choice improvements I don't know)

I guess with the automatic extension to Oct 15 there is no rush, and the deadline of April 18 is fairly pointless?!
*3!4!/5!
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Re: I got a FATCA-related form from my home country?

Post by *3!4!/5! »

TravelGeek wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:
TravelGeek wrote:Deadline for filing FBAR this year is April 18.
Wait? Isn't it June 30? Anyway, doesn't seem to apply to OP.
That used to be the deadline, but it has changed.

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releas ... te-fbars-0

Immediate Release
December 16, 2016

The new annual due date for filing Reports of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) for foreign financial accounts is April 15. This date change was mandated by the Surface Transportation and Veterans Health Care Choice Improvement Act of 2015, Public Law 114-41 (the Act). Specifically, section 2006(b)(11) of the Act changes the FBAR due date to April 15 to coincide with the Federal income tax filing season. The Act also mandates a maximum six-month extension of the filing deadline. To implement the statute with minimal burden to the public and FinCEN, FinCEN will grant filers failing to meet the FBAR annual due date of April 15 an automatic extension to October 15 each year. Accordingly, specific requests for this extension are not required. (Please note: The due date for FBAR filings for foreign financial accounts maintained during calendar year 2016 is April 18, 2017, consistent with the Federal income tax due date.)


(what my foreign accounts have to do with surface transportation and veterans health care choice improvements I don't know)
Yikes! Didn't realize that. Fortunately I did mine when I did taxes (but you made me look to check I really had done it.) Anyway, I closed my foreign account last year, so I'm done with this.
Last edited by *3!4!/5! on Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
anoop
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by anoop »

rr2 wrote: If it were me, I'd close the account and have my family member pay my bill. It is very easy to transfer money from the US to foreign bank accounts (in India for example) with very low fees (less than $5).
Sorry to hijack the thread.

How? Most banks seem to charge a lot to do a wire transfer, and sending a check is usually very time consuming (typically takes a month to clear after it has been deposited) and there's a commission.
rr2
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by rr2 »

anoop wrote:
rr2 wrote: If it were me, I'd close the account and have my family member pay my bill. It is very easy to transfer money from the US to foreign bank accounts (in India for example) with very low fees (less than $5).
Sorry to hijack the thread.

How? Most banks seem to charge a lot to do a wire transfer, and sending a check is usually very time consuming (typically takes a month to clear after it has been deposited) and there's a commission.
I use money2india by icici. It is there in the recipients bank account in a couple of days. Have been using it for the last few years with good success.

Edit: The initial setup takes time and some paperwork that needs to be scanned and emailed because of Govt regulations. But once setup, the transfer is fairly effortless.
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MossySF
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by MossySF »

anoop wrote:How? Most banks seem to charge a lot to do a wire transfer, and sending a check is usually very time consuming (typically takes a month to clear after it has been deposited) and there's a commission.
Wells Fargo has a free transfer option if you are at PMA Plus status (250K balance). Otherwise, it's $5 to transfer money.

Some instant messaging platforms also have virtual money that actually now can be used in the real world. For example, I just had dinner at an Indian/Nepalese restaurant in Guangzhou and every patron there -- even us foreigners -- paid by transferring virtual WeChat money to the owner's WeChat account. (2 years ago, it was rolled out as a fun thing to transfer lucky red envelopes back-and-forth -- now you can use it all over China in the real world.)
Diogenes
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by Diogenes »

I believe the FBAR requires filing only if the foreign account held more than $10,000 at any time during the year.
Truth and clarity are important in all things...
*3!4!/5!
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Re: I got a FATCA-related form from my home country?

Post by *3!4!/5! »

Diogenes wrote:I believe the FBAR requires filing only if the foreign account held more than $10,000 at any time during the year.
.. total of all foreign accounts ...
Last edited by *3!4!/5! on Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kramer
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by kramer »

To directly answer the OP's question, many and probably most banks abroad now automatically require that you state whether you are a US Person and/or US Citizen as a matter of doing business with them. This is usually even for opening a small account since that account could later grow above the threshold for bank reporting to the US Treasury Department or the threshold for reporting could change. By the way, the banks abroad also have to report accounts that have sufficient churn, even if they never reach a given account balance threshold.

Whether they ask you this question is independent of the bank's reporting requirements on that account and the individual's FINCEN (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network -- that's where your FBAR is submitted) reporting requirements.
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Re: I got a FACTA-related form from my home country?

Post by Karamatsu »

What would the possible repercussions be if I just send back the form saying I am not a US citizen/resident? I have no money in my home country also, except for $1000 in that bank.
It is unlikely that anybody here can really answer that question for you, most obviously because you don't identify your home country, but even if you did... how could any of us know for sure? If this bank account is your only foreign asset then you are well below the FINCEN (FBAR) and FATCA reporting limits, so I doubt the US would care, but knowingly providing false information to your bank could create problems in your home country and, at worst, expose you, or even your relatives, to criminal charges.

I think the best solution is as people have suggested: close the account, send one of your relatives an occasional wire transfer, and just ask if they could pay the occasional bill for you. If it's just an annual thing then it shouldn't be a burden. When I was away for a year or so, and my location unpredictable, I asked a relative to pay any bills that came. This was before there was such a thing as Internet banking, but if it worked then it should work now.

I guess the only question is how to remotely close your account. Maybe one of your relatives can get the paperwork and send it to you? Or there may be a PDF that you can download from the bank's web site.
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