Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

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Calygos
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Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:03 pm

Hi all,

I've been going through a lot of spring cleaning and overhaul of my financial accounts (as recent threads of mine show) and I've settled on a new strategy that I've begun implementing today:

  • Moving savings from Ally to PurePoint for the 0.25% APY increase
  • Moving checking from Wells Fargo to a Fidelity Cash Management account
  • Switching primary credit card from Quicksilver to Fidelity Rewards Visa for the 0.5% cash back improvement and automatic deposits to a Fidelity account
  • Adding BECU credit union for 4.07% APY interest on the first $500 each in savings and checking, and for cash ATM deposits
Today I set up the Fidelity Cash Management account (and applied for the Rewards Visa) and after a length phone conversation last night, I've got a call with a Fidelity investment advisor early next week to discuss my current portfolio and what a move to Fidelity might look like for me, especially to minimize costs while maintaining my overall desired AA, accounting for my separate 401(k) holdings.

I've read the wiki page about Fidelity but I wanted to know if anyone has any further advice for me going into this possible move of my Vanguard accounts.

Thanks!

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Vanguard Fan 1367 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:32 pm

I got involved with an unwelcome capital gains tax thing when I sold some funds. I guess in today's world you can move your Vanguard Funds to Fidelity but if you have to sell anything with capital gains be aware that you might have some unwelcome taxes.

That Fidelity Visa Rewards card rocks!! I spend a lot of money and enjoy buying FSTVX with my Visa Rewards money, like thousands over the years.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:37 pm

Vanguard Fan 1367 wrote:I got involved with an unwelcome capital gains tax thing when I sold some funds. I guess in today's world you can move your Vanguard Funds to Fidelity but if you have to sell anything with capital gains be aware that you might have some unwelcome taxes.


Capital gains are my biggest concern. They hit me hard when I moved from Raymond James to Vanguard a couple of years ago when I learned about indexing and joined the forum (see my earliest posts for the ugly details). My move from RJ was ugly due having to liquidate everything and the resulting capital gains but also due to some weird international tax issues that I needed a CPA to sort out for taxes last year. The CPA saved me over $3300 compared to what TurboTax thought I owed .

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby NYC_Guy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:42 pm

Congrats. It'll go smooth. Should be no need for a realization event. The Fido mobile app is awesome.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby nlecaros » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:45 pm

I guess my question to you is: why do you want to move all your Vanguard accounts to Fidelity? You just moved to Vanguard a couple of years ago from Raymond James.

I did the reverse move of what you are planning years ago: from Fidelity to Vanguard. Fidelity had me liquidate all my holdings and did the transfer in cash. I didn't incur capital gains taxes then because it was an IRA trustee-to-trustee transfer. However, I'd imagine Vanguard also wanting you to liquidate your holdings if you want to move. Best to ask them directly if that's indeed the case.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:54 pm

nlecaros wrote:I guess my question to you is: why do you want to move all your Vanguard accounts to Fidelity? You just moved to Vanguard a couple of years ago from Raymond James.

I did the reverse move of what you are planning years ago: from Fidelity to Vanguard. Fidelity had me liquidate all my holdings and did the transfer in cash. I didn't incur capital gains taxes then because it was an IRA trustee-to-trustee transfer. However, I'd imagine Vanguard also wanting you to liquidate your holdings if you want to move. Best to ask them directly if that's indeed the case.


I know it's strange to want to move from Vanguard after only a couple of years, but it's mainly just from reading what I have here and from my own small handful of experiences with Vanguard support (probably just growing pains, but still), combined with a desire to consolidate and minimize where I can. It's not set in stone, though, so we'll see what the conversation with the Fidelity investment rep yields next week. :)

Out of curiosity, what triggered your decision to move from Fidelity to Vanguard? Any input people have that could impact my thought process on the matter could be valuable. That said, my handful of conversations with Fidelity reps the last couple of days have been absolutely wonderful. The girl I worked with today on the Cash Management account was completely awesome and helpful and we had a lovely conversation. (It turned out I had a Fidelity account from ages ago since my very first 401(k) was with them. The account was empty due to a rollover but still existed so she helped me regain access.)

:happy :happy :happy

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby nlecaros » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:02 am

nlecaros wrote:
Calygos wrote:
nlecaros wrote:I guess my question to you is: why do you want to move all your Vanguard accounts to Fidelity? You just moved to Vanguard a couple of years ago from Raymond James.

I did the reverse move of what you are planning years ago: from Fidelity to Vanguard. Fidelity had me liquidate all my holdings and did the transfer in cash. I didn't incur capital gains taxes then because it was an IRA trustee-to-trustee transfer. However, I'd imagine Vanguard also wanting you to liquidate your holdings if you want to move. Best to ask them directly if that's indeed the case.


I know it's strange to want to move from Vanguard after only a couple of years, but it's mainly just from reading what I have here and from my own small handful of experiences with Vanguard support (probably just growing pains, but still), combined with a desire to consolidate and minimize where I can. It's not set in stone, though, so we'll see what the conversation with the Fidelity investment rep yields next week. :)

Out of curiosity, what triggered your decision to move from Fidelity to Vanguard? Any input people have that could impact my thought process on the matter could be valuable. That said, my handful of conversations with Fidelity reps the last couple of days have been absolutely wonderful. The girl I worked with today on the Cash Management account was completely awesome and helpful and we had a lovely conversation. (It turned out I had a Fidelity account from ages ago since my very first 401(k) was with them. The account was empty due to a rollover but still existed so she helped me regain access.)

:happy :happy :happy


I was with Fidelity only because my previous employer had their retirement plan there. Reasons why I moved to Vanguard:

1. Cost. Their funds have the lowest expense ratios in the industry. My own personal expense ratio with them is 0.09%. I can still bring this down.
2. Fund selection. They have enough of a selection of funds to enable me to implement and control my own asset allocation strategy. Most of my portfolio is indexed. I find I sleep better at night.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:09 am

nlecaros wrote:I was with Fidelity only because my previous employer had their retirement plan there. Reasons why I moved to Vanguard:

1. Cost. Their funds have the lowest expense ratios in the industry. My own personal expense ratio with them is 0.09%. I can still bring this down.
2. Fund selection. They have enough of a selection of funds to enable me to implement and control my own asset allocation strategy. Most of my portfolio is indexed. I find I sleep better at night.


Good to know, I'll be sure to review their fund selection carefully tomorrow. My portfolio ER (including my 401(k) at Principal) is 0.076% so it'll be interesting to compute what a comparable portfolio and AA would be at Fidelity. Thanks for the feedback!

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby mhalley » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:18 am

Moving to fidelity is fine, but why do you need to talk to a rep? Watch out for a sales pitch on their advisory services. If you are doing it yourself now at vanguard, you can do it yourself there.
One thing you could do is review the boglehead wiki fidelity page, or else go through the fidelity go recommendations but implement them yourself.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Fidelity

https://dpcs.fidelity.com/prgw/dpcs/dma ... th-profile

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:25 am

mhalley wrote:Moving to fidelity is fine, but why do you need to talk to a rep? Watch out for a sales pitch on their advisory services. If you are doing it yourself now at vanguard, you can do it yourself there.
One thing you could do is review the boglehead wiki fidelity page, or else go through the fidelity go recommendations but implement them yourself.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Fidelity

https://dpcs.fidelity.com/prgw/dpcs/dma ... th-profile


I'm definitely not interested in any advisory services, just wanted to make sure I understood how best to migrate my existing holdings in Vanguard to appropriate new accounts at Fidelity. Also, I pointed out in my original post that I did first read the Fidelity wiki page, wanted to make sure I did at least that much before posting. :)

My overall portfolio shouldn't be difficult to convert, just wanted to make sure there weren't any gotchas since I would be moving three accounts (tIRA, Roth IRA, taxable brokerage account). Also why I asked here before talking with them.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Steelersfan » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:01 am

Please come back after you move your accounts and let us know how it went, and if it was noticeably smoother than your move from Raymond James to Vanguard.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby SpringMan » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:45 am

Be sure to ask Fidelity about moving any taxable account positions in-kind to avoid a taxable event. Vanguard will allow conversion of equity index funds to their corresponding ETFs for free which is not a taxable event. Vanguard ETFs can definitely by transferred in-kind. At Fidelity buying or selling a Vanguard ETF will cost $4.95. Buying a Vanguard mutual fund cost $75 at Fidelity but selling is free. Vanguard's actively managed funds may transfer in-kind but admiral shares may need demotion to investor share class by Vanguard first. Fidelity won't allow admiral shares. Tax advantaged accounts should be simple to move but still Fidelity won't allow actively managed funds in admiral shares.
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby oldcomputerguy » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:55 am

Just one other thing for your consideration: the two-factor authentication at Fidelity is stronger. While Vanguard does provide for the use of a Yubikey as 2FA, they won't allow the use of the Yubikey as the only 2FA, they make you maintain 2FA through text messaging as a backup which many believe is more vulnerable to being compromised. Fidelity provides access to the Symantec VIP Access facility free-of-charge.
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby ruralavalon » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:57 am

Calygos wrote:
nlecaros wrote:I guess my question to you is: why do you want to move all your Vanguard accounts to Fidelity? You just moved to Vanguard a couple of years ago from Raymond James.

I did the reverse move of what you are planning years ago: from Fidelity to Vanguard. Fidelity had me liquidate all my holdings and did the transfer in cash. I didn't incur capital gains taxes then because it was an IRA trustee-to-trustee transfer. However, I'd imagine Vanguard also wanting you to liquidate your holdings if you want to move. Best to ask them directly if that's indeed the case.


I know it's strange to want to move from Vanguard after only a couple of years, but it's mainly just from reading what I have here and from my own small handful of experiences with Vanguard support (probably just growing pains, but still), combined with a desire to consolidate and minimize where I can. It's not set in stone, though, so we'll see what the conversation with the Fidelity investment rep yields next week. :)
. . . . . .

I understand the impulse to simplify and have all accounts at one place.

Fidelity and Vanguard both have core index fund offerings with low expense ratios.

But I would not do that (a Vanguard to Fidelity move, or a Fidelity to Vanguard move) if there was any significant income tax consequence. So I suggest that you determine the tax impact before making a decision.
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:05 am

ruralavalon wrote:But I would not do that (a Vanguard to Fidelity move, or a Fidelity to Vanguard move) if there was any significant income tax consequence. So I suggest that you determine the tax impact before making a decision.


That's definitely my intent. Fortunately, something like 70% of my portfolio is in my tax-advantaged IRA and my Roth IRA is small and very new, so the only place for any possible significant tax impact would be my taxable account, and since it's only been at Vanguard for two years and is only about 10% of my portfolio (and is 100% VTSAX), I'm hoping that any such tax impact would be fairly small and manageable.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:11 am

Steelersfan wrote:Please come back after you move your accounts and let us know how it went, and if it was noticeably smoother than your move from Raymond James to Vanguard.


Sure thing! I'm pretty certain it would be smoother. If you look at my very first post I think it was, you'll see the mess that was my RJ accounts (something like 18 high-cost funds in the tIRA alone). I ended up paying about $2200 in taxes in 2016 mainly due to LT and some ST CG when I normally would have gotten a small refund, but I had to pay $400 to a CPA to untangle the mess the liquidation caused.

Steelersfan wrote:Just one other thing for your consideration: the two-factor authentication at Fidelity is stronger. While Vanguard does provide for the use of a Yubikey as 2FA, they won't allow the use of the Yubikey as the only 2FA, they make you maintain 2FA through text messaging as a backup which many believe is more vulnerable to being compromised. Fidelity provides access to the Symantec VIP Access facility free-of-charge.


Good to know, thanks! I did already set up some strong and unique questions for my Fidelity Cash Management account but I'll definitely set up the strongest authentication they provide.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:17 am

SpringMan wrote:Be sure to ask Fidelity about moving any taxable account positions in-kind to avoid a taxable event. Vanguard will allow conversion of equity index funds to their corresponding ETFs for free which is not a taxable event. Vanguard ETFs can definitely by transferred in-kind. At Fidelity buying or selling a Vanguard ETF will cost $4.95. Buying a Vanguard mutual fund cost $75 at Fidelity but selling is free. Vanguard's actively managed funds may transfer in-kind but admiral shares may need demotion to investor share class by Vanguard first. Fidelity won't allow admiral shares. Tax advantaged accounts should be simple to move but still Fidelity won't allow actively managed funds in admiral shares.


Interesting about the admiral funds since everything I have is admiral shares. That could definitely be a sticking point. Need to investigate that carefully. Thanks for the heads up!

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:47 pm

Calygos wrote:Interesting about the admiral funds since everything I have is admiral shares. That could definitely be a sticking point. Need to investigate that carefully. Thanks for the heads up!


I've been looking over the Fidelity funds and reviewing the wiki page and while I could probably make a reasonable conversion, I think it will really come down to any tax implications as well as the effort in moving since there's no truly compelling reason to make the move beyond consolidation of my investing with my new checking and credit card accounts, which is just a nice to have but not important. EDIT: Oh, and Fidelity's much better web site!

That said, if I were to stay with Vanguard, based on the image I linked with my current portfolio, aside from the higher bond percentage (60/40 vs my current 70/30 at age 43), might it be worth simplifying my tIRA to 100% balanced fund (VBIAX). Or going with an equivalent if I do move it to Fidelity? FWIW, my tIRA's overall ER is .0067% while VBIAX is .008%, yielding about $43/year fee difference at the current balance.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby tj » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:08 am

VBIAX is certainly sufficient if that is the AA you want. With Vanguard, you get the securities lending income, Fidelity, probably keeps it for themselves.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:48 am

tj wrote:VBIAX is certainly sufficient if that is the AA you want. With Vanguard, you get the securities lending income, Fidelity, probably keeps it for themselves.


I'm not sure what the bold part means. Can you clarify?

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby bloom2708 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:56 am

It seems like a bunch of work for very small gains. The .5% on the rewards card will make some difference. The problem is you have to spend and spend to reap the rewards. How about just spend 5% less and you will gain more than the extra .5%.

These moves violate my "don't just do something, stand there policy". Once all settled in, will you want to make similar moves when the next best things come along?

Do let us know how it goes...
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby tj » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:04 am

bloom2708 wrote:It seems like a bunch of work for very small gains. The .5% on the rewards card will make some difference. The problem is you have to spend and spend to reap the rewards. How about just spend 5% less and you will gain more than the extra .5%.

These moves violate my "don't just do something, stand there policy". Once all settled in, will you want to make similar moves when the next best things come along?

Do let us know how it goes...



You don't need a large fidelity brokerage account to use their credit card. Just open a fidelity cash management account to redeem into.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby tj » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:05 am

Calygos wrote:
tj wrote:VBIAX is certainly sufficient if that is the AA you want. With Vanguard, you get the securities lending income, Fidelity, probably keeps it for themselves.


I'm not sure what the bold part means. Can you clarify?



See:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Securities_lending

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:07 am

bloom2708 wrote:It seems like a bunch of work for very small gains. The .5% on the rewards card will make some difference. The problem is you have to spend and spend to reap the rewards. How about just spend 5% less and you will gain more than the extra .5%.


I already do keep my spending very low, generally under $800 per month (on anything that can be paid for with a card) and that's mostly gas, groceries, and utilities. Mainly this is to finally get away from Wells Fargo, and the credit card is for a couple of reasons: better cash back (though marginal); synergy with the Fidelity Cash Management account; another credit card to help keep my score high for when I hopefully try to get a home loan and since Amex sucks (given my usage patterns) and I don't want to use it (but will every few months just to keep it open), this card will become my primary with the Quicksilver as a backup.

bloom2708 wrote:These moves violate my "don't just do something, stand there policy". Once all settled in, will you want to make similar moves when the next best things come along?


I'm the same, but the last few months I've been reviewing all of my finances. Until recently, most of my finances were stable, but it felt like a good time to question everything and perform a sort of Spring cleaning and overhaul. Once I get this new structure settled, I'll put it on autopilot and focus on other stuff. :)

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby mhalley » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:10 am

Since fidelity won't accept vanguard admiral shares, you could always convert to etf before rhe transfer.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Earl Lemongrab » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:43 pm

From your old posts, it looks like you have substantial assets to move. Be sure to get any relevant transfer bonuses:

https://rewards.fidelity.com/offers/depositbonus

More information on bonuses can be found at The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby SeeMoe » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:07 pm

Don't jump ship without thinking real hard about where you will land, sailor! Go to Reuters News Service and google the explosive article concerning the Johnson Family who Own Fidelity, and their $20+ billion dollar empire. Guess who helped finance that gravy train,...?

SeeMoe.. :oops:
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby DVMResident » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:42 pm

Moving checking from Wells Fargo to a Fidelity Cash Management account


If I may jump on this thread, I'm looking to also switch from WF. I've had WF for ~15 years and mostly like the number of ATMs, though my use is dramatically falling with the digital economy.

Anyone care to share their experience with Fidelity Cash Management account as a checking substitute?

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby triceratop » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:55 pm

SeeMoe wrote:Don't jump ship without thinking real hard about where you will land, sailor! Go to Reuters News Service and google the explosive article concerning the Johnson Family who Own Fidelity, and their $20+ billion dollar empire. Guess who helped finance that gravy train,...?

SeeMoe.. :oops:


This seems unlikely to apply to anyone investing in a Boglehead fashion at Fidelity, since the alleged impropriety involved active funds. The index funds can be compared to Vanguard for expected delivery of index returns.
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Tallis » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:42 pm

DVMResident wrote:Anyone care to share their experience with Fidelity Cash Management account as a checking substitute?


I've been quite happy with them. They automatically reimburse any ATM fee, and I've had zero problems depositing checks using the Fidelity mobile app, which is more than I can say for my local credit union's app. The checks work just fine, though I haven't used one in months.

The only thing I don't know how to do conveniently is deposit cash.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:10 pm

Tallis wrote:
DVMResident wrote:Anyone care to share their experience with Fidelity Cash Management account as a checking substitute?


I've been quite happy with them. They automatically reimburse any ATM fee, and I've had zero problems depositing checks using the Fidelity mobile app, which is more than I can say for my local credit union's app. The checks work just fine, though I haven't used one in months.

The only thing I don't know how to do conveniently is deposit cash.


Depositing cash would have been a concern for me as well, but I've opened up checking and savings with BECU credit union (huge in Washington state). Not only can I use their ATM network to deposit cash and then transfer to wherever, I can leverage credit union services and both of my accounts earn 4.07% APY on the first $500, so I keep that amount in each and I'll just transfer the interest once a year to any of my other accounts (PurePoint savings, Fidelity Cash Management, or taxable brokerage account wherever that is at the time).

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby dave1054 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:11 pm

I have both Vanguard and fidelity accounts. If you want to be "stroked", go to Fidelity. They will be more hands on, but
you will pay for it. One simple example is the federal money market account where cash is now parked in all brokerage accounts.
Very few people pay attention to the interest, but at Vanguard it is about 0.5% and at Fidelity it is 0.2%. That adds up.
I recently wanted to purchase an Admiral Fund, vscsx, through Fidelity since I had extra cash in money market. They would not allow
purchase of Admiral shares.

Yes, customer service is better at Fidelity and you can walk into a branch office and talk to a real person. If that is what you are
looking for, then go for it.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:17 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:From your old posts, it looks like you have substantial assets to move. Be sure to get any relevant transfer bonuses:

https://rewards.fidelity.com/offers/depositbonus

More information on bonuses can be found at The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses


Ooh, good to know, thanks! I still have my phone call sometime this week with an investment advisor about possibly moving over. One thought I had was to move only my taxable account, about $53k all in Vanguard Total Stock Market admiral shares (VTSAX), into the brokerage account that got opened automatically along with the Cash Management account, which would get me that bonus (EDIT: only $200, or about 0.4% of the amount moved) and I fund it monthly anyway. Then I'd just leave my Traditional and Roth IRAs at Vanguard and fund the Roth for 2018 next year.
Last edited by Calygos on Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:20 pm

dave1054 wrote:I have both Vanguard and fidelity accounts. If you want to be "stroked", go to Fidelity. They will be more hands on, but
you will pay for it. One simple example is the federal money market account where cash is now parked in all brokerage accounts.
Very few people pay attention to the interest, but at Vanguard it is about 0.5% and at Fidelity it is 0.2%. That adds up.
I recently wanted to purchase an Admiral Fund, vscsx, through Fidelity since I had extra cash in money market. They would not allow
purchase of Admiral shares.

Yes, customer service is better at Fidelity and you can walk into a branch office and talk to a real person. If that is what you are
looking for, then go for it.


I'll definitely be looking closely at the costs of moving whatever I might want to move, if anything, as compared to the other benefits like customer service, better interface, synergy between all of my Fidelity accounts, etc. I'm not set in stone yet on the move, and there's no pressing need to move, so I have all the leverage. :)

goingup
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby goingup » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:24 pm

If you are using Vanguard Admiral Funds and plan on adding to them, it doesn't make sense to move to Fidelity. You'll either want to change to Fidelity funds, or exchange your Vanguard Admiral shares for Vanguard ETF shares before you jump ship. :D

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Calygos
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:58 pm

goingup wrote:If you are using Vanguard Admiral Funds and plan on adding to them, it doesn't make sense to move to Fidelity. You'll either want to change to Fidelity funds, or exchange your Vanguard Admiral shares for Vanguard ETF shares before you jump ship. :D


Yeah, I've seen mention of that. If I were to move my VTSAX to Fidelity, it sounds like I should either convert them to the VTI ETF before moving, or see what the implications would be of selling the shares and buying FSTVX at Fidelity. I've never dealt with ETFs so I'm reading over the wiki pages about how they compare to mutual funds and the pros and cons of using them in my taxable account.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Earl Lemongrab » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:00 pm

As I recall, Fidelity doesn't charge commission for selling mutual funds from other companies, but you can check that.

Personally I like ETFs, because they move around easily so better from bonus generation. I like free money.
This week's fortune cookie: "You will enjoy doing something spontaneous this weekend." Apparently that meant working on a dead PC, but I didn't enjoy that much.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Vanguard Fan 1367 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:09 pm

I like having accounts at both Fidelity and Vanguard, that might be a possibility for you to consider.

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Ged
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Ged » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:30 pm

mhalley wrote:Since fidelity won't accept vanguard admiral shares, you could always convert to etf before rhe transfer.


You probably want to do this because this will avoid any issues associated with liquidation of your funds triggering capital gains. Further the trading costs of Vanguard ETFs held at Fidelity are much lower than Vanguard mutual funds held at Fidelity.

I've held my Vanguard funds at Fidelity for about a decade now. I love the customer service and have no problem with the 48 bucks or so per year in trading costs I pay in exchange for the service.

I did have to put up with an attempt by Fidelity to sell me their management services, but they quickly gave up and don't bother me with that any more.

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Jack FFR1846 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:42 pm

You can move everything (if you want) without waiting for some phone meeting with a Fidelity person.

First, go to the bonus page (look on Doctor of Credit or just google fidelity bonus). Click on the open account from the bonus page. Then go through the process. You'll have a form with 2 signature pages. Print those, sign them and scan them back in as a pdf and put them in the folder (it's easy). And then......you're done.

The account will then be created and you'll be able to follow progress there. Once everything comes over, it'll show the holdings (I agree to convert any taxable MF at Vanguard to ETFs. In tax advantaged, it doesn't matter....just liquidate at Vanguard to avoid any possible charges).

In some cases, Fidelity will require some paper. Out of 5 or 6 transfers, we've needed to do paper twice.
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SeeMoe
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby SeeMoe » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:56 pm

triceratop wrote:
SeeMoe wrote:Don't jump ship without thinking real hard about where you will land, sailor! Go to Reuters News Service and google the explosive article concerning the Johnson Family who Own Fidelity, and their $20+ billion dollar empire. Guess who helped finance that gravy train,...?

SeeMoe.. :oops:


This seems unlikely to apply to anyone investing in a Boglehead fashion at Fidelity, since the alleged impropriety involved active funds. The index funds can be compared to Vanguard for expected delivery of index returns.


That would be fair to say per indexing. Still can't see the point of moving from one index fund to another if the fees are similar? It's a headache too transferring in and out of investment companies on an ( apparent) whim...

SeeMoe.. :?:
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby pyld76 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:11 pm

I have accounts at both VG and Fido, largely because the latter are the custodian for my 401k and HSA (over which I have zero choice).

There is nothing stopping you from keeping accounts in both places, particularly if you are doing Fido for the credit card and the cash management as your primary goal. Frankly, if you have admiral funds at VG, and if you regularly add to them in taxable, you have a couple of options, each of which sucks in it's own way:

1. Have VG convert to ETFs and do an in-kind conversion to Fido. You will then be out the $7 (or whatever it is these days) to trade them if needed and

2. Even if you don't trade them if you want to add to the taxable positions, it'll involve either coughing up another $10k in outside cash to get the cheaper share class or periodically trading the Fido ETFs. If you don't mind the effort, jump ship.

or

3. Eat the cap gains, liquidate, and start over at Fido.

Whereas I'm sure VG will happily EFT money right out of a Fido checking account and right into your existing funds at VG.

And they will (anecdotally) probably pitch you hard at Fido. I've had Vanguard target me for a grand total of 1 (one) "ad" in the mail ever (for PAS). Fido makes a run at me almost every time I call, for anything.

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Calygos
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:14 pm

SeeMoe wrote:That would be fair to say per indexing. Still can't see the point of moving from one index fund to another if the fees are similar? It's a headache too transferring in and out of investment companies on an ( apparent) whim...


It isn't really a whim, as part of my financial overhaul I'm just questioning whether there's any value in consolidating any or all of my investment portfolio with my other new accounts at Fidelity. I've not yet decided one way or the other. I'm carefully considering the advice and thoughtful feedback people have provided in this thread.

If anything, I could see the most value in moving just the taxable account and leaving my two IRAs at Vanguard, but I certainly have to factor in the effort and possible costs and tax implications of converting to the appropriate ETF or mutual fund. There's not even any reason to make the decision now, other than the negligible benefit of $200 for moving the $53k to the new Fidelity brokerage account (it was automatically created along with the Cash Management account). Automatic investments from Cash Management and automatic deposits of the 2% cash back from the Fidelity Rewards Visa also simplifies things a bit. Much nicer consolidated interface, too. Lots of little synergies, just have to decide if it's worth it overall.

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SeeMoe
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby SeeMoe » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:11 pm

Calygos wrote:
SeeMoe wrote:That would be fair to say per indexing. Still can't see the point of moving from one index fund to another if the fees are similar? It's a headache too transferring in and out of investment companies on an ( apparent) whim...


It isn't really a whim, as part of my financial overhaul I'm just questioning whether there's any value in consolidating any or all of my investment portfolio with my other new accounts at Fidelity. I've not yet decided one way or the other. I'm carefully considering the advice and thoughtful feedback people have provided in this thread.

If anything, I could see the most value in moving just the taxable account and leaving my two IRAs at Vanguard, but I certainly have to factor in the effort and possible costs and tax implications of converting to the appropriate ETF or mutual fund. There's not even any reason to make the decision now, other than the negligible benefit of $200 for moving the $53k to the new Fidelity brokerage account (it was automatically created along with the Cash Management account). Automatic investments from Cash Management and automatic deposits of the 2% cash back from the Fidelity Rewards Visa also simplifies things a bit. Much nicer consolidated interface, too. Lots of little synergies, just have to decide if it's worth it overall.


Synergies? Sounds like cosmetics to me, and not worth the effort. Good thing that you are not in a hurry and willing to sit on it for awhile. Thinking it over. Just saying...

SeeMoe.. :annoyed
"By gnawing through a dike, even a Rat can destroy a nation ." {Edmund Burke}

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby aj76er » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:01 am

I consolidated everything to Fidelity earlier this year (from Vanguard). Prior to the transfer, I converted my admiral shares to ETF (no charge, no tax consequences). Only a small fractional share didn't transfer over and resulted in a small deposit in my brokerage account (approx $100).

At any rate, it was a very smooth process.
"Buy-and-hold, long-term, all-market-index strategies, implemented at rock-bottom cost, are the surest of all routes to the accumulation of wealth" - John C. Bogle

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walletless
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby walletless » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:05 pm

If you're moving to Fidelity, take advantage of one of the offers:
http://www.mymoneyblog.com/fidelity-bro ... nuses.html

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Calygos
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:14 pm

I'll keep this relatively brief, not a lot to say. I did get the call I was expecting last night and spoke with the rep for about an hour. Even though they'd love to get my business, he agreed that there's no huge incentive for me to move, though if I did he agreed with others here that the ETF conversion and move would be the best approach.

He also brought up the bonus that many here have pointed out; I'd get $200 for moving $53k, so about 0.4%, which is nothing to sneeze at when combining it with the other little bonuses here and there (savings interest increase moving from Ally to PurePoint, cash back increase going from Quicksilver to Fidelity Rewards Visa, credit union 4% interest on the first $1k, etc.) but it's certainly not a compelling reason to make the move, just a nice little plus if I otherwise decided to.

We also discussed various AA models compared to what I've got and that perhaps I should have more than just a single equity fund in my taxable account to aid rebalancing. Having the brick and mortar offices like they do (his office is about 10 miles from me), compared to Vanguard, and being able to go in and meet and talk face to face at no cost would also be a nice little plus.

Ultimately I haven't decided and I'll keep mulling it over. The only tiny time factor is that the $200 bonus is good for 60 days from the day my brokerage account was opened this past weekend.

I appreciate the advice you all have provided. I think whether or not I move isn't a big deal either way, though. :)

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby rgs92 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:19 pm

Fidelity does not have an equivalent to Vanguard Balanced Index (regular or Admiral flavor).
Their Freedom Index ones are a little weird and I never felt comfortable with them.

Instead, you can either use the Premium Index or Ishare ETF equivalents to mimic it and rebalance manually at no cost every quarter or so (still, this in not continuously rebalancing as the Vandy fund one does).

I think Fidelity purposely does not have such a thing because they want you to use their Target, Asset Manager, or Balanced funds.

By the way, Vanguard does not allow any outside fund company (or broker I think) to sell Admiral shares, so it's not Fidelity's fault.

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Calygos
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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby Calygos » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:53 am

rgs92 wrote:Fidelity does not have an equivalent to Vanguard Balanced Index (regular or Admiral flavor).
Their Freedom Index ones are a little weird and I never felt comfortable with them.

Instead, you can either use the Premium Index or Ishare ETF equivalents to mimic it and rebalance manually at no cost every quarter or so (still, this in not continuously rebalancing as the Vandy fund one does).

I think Fidelity purposely does not have such a thing because they want you to use their Target, Asset Manager, or Balanced funds.

By the way, Vanguard does not allow any outside fund company (or broker I think) to sell Admiral shares, so it's not Fidelity's fault.


The rep did also bring up BlackRock and iShares like ITOT, but since I've not dealt with ETFs before, not sure about the benefits. If I were to move, I'd convert VTSAX to VTI at Vanguard and move that to Fidelity, but then would there be any value or caveats to changing from VTI to ITOT or a Fidelity-specific MF or ETF? What would be good to add, say if I just wanted to change my monthly autoinvestment to something new within the account? I'm not trying to complicate matters, just the opposite, but I'm still learning.

Thanks!

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Re: Moving from Vanguard to Fidelity (probably)

Postby jjface » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:32 am

Seems like an odd thread. You want to move but you don't. My advise is to stay put - you simply do not have a compelling reason to move your portfolio. The main reason to move from vanguard is if you have had a bad experience with them (seems like this is not the case) or if you really want everything at one provider and say you have your 401k at fidelity and can't move it (seems like this is not the case). If not the grass is not greener on the other side. At least not in some ways.

You are already falling into the trap of being sucked in by an advisor even if you do not realize it. It starts small but then he gets you thinking about things and you will end up back at square one with an advisor managed portfolio. For example there is no need for more than one equity fund in your taxable account for rebalancing. All your rebalancing should be done in your IRAs/401k for tax efficiency. Advisors seem to get off by having you in more than one fund. Less is more.

No reason you can't have your cash management/credit card at fidelity and your portfolio at vanguard. Vanguard has the funds you want and you are happy with them. Don't move.

If you really do move you just want the usual fidelity premium total stock index, fidelity premium total international index, fidelity premium total bond index fund. The rest are not worth looking at. FFNOX Fidelity four in one index is decent if you want an all in one fund but it is 85% stocks.

And this is coming from someone with their portfolio at fidelity and from someone who had issues with vanguard in the past. I do hold a few vanguard funds at fidelity and transferred them in kind.


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