Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

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Roguejim
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Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Roguejim » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:37 pm

I've been trying to get up to speed, watching a few of his interviews. Sounds like he's advocating a 2-fund portfolio, correct?

PFInterest
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by PFInterest » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:40 pm

No, I am a more rounded investor.

TonyDAntonio
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by TonyDAntonio » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:47 pm

No. I'm more of a Paul Merriman slice and dicer and that includes all the international slices. Can't say it's made me more money but 'the day' ain't over yet.

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Taylor Larimore
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How Much International Stock? A Suggestion.

Post by Taylor Larimore » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:48 pm

Roguejim wrote:Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?
Roguejim:

How much international investing is a very controversial subject. To help answer the question, I wrote this suggestion:

How Much International Stock? A Suggestion.

I might add that when experts disagree, it is often because it makes little foreseeable difference.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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pennstater2005
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by pennstater2005 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:24 pm

I'm not perfectly globally weighted but getting closer as Vanguard changes their allocations in their funds.
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rob
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by rob » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:29 pm

No... basically global weight here.
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dwickenh
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by dwickenh » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:30 pm

I do not avoid it, and I keep 20-25% of my stock in foreign stock index funds.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:39 pm

My AA has 30% of my equity in international.
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by normaldude » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:39 pm

No, I prefer to be globally diversified.

A single-country portfolio can suffer very long periods of losses (Example: Japan, for the last 27 years).

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by pyld76 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:01 pm

I believe Mr. Bogle has said something to the effect of "if you must, no more than 20% international."

I must, but I work for a non-US megacorp. So, I stick to 20% and take my international risk/exposure in my job.

If I didn't have the job exposure, I'd be tempted to up things to 30%. But not a lot more.

Roguejim
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Re: How Much International Stock? A Suggestion.

Post by Roguejim » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:07 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Roguejim wrote:Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?
Roguejim:

How much international investing is a very controversial subject. To help answer the question, I wrote this suggestion:

How Much International Stock? A Suggestion.

I might add that when experts disagree, it is often because it makes little foreseeable difference.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Thank you, everyone. It appears Jack is somewhat of a lone wolf. I think the 20% figure by Jack was for investors already insistent on some international investments.

I await your Boglehead Investing book, Mr. Larimore.
Last edited by Roguejim on Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by flamesabers » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:11 pm

I invest in international funds in part because I don't want my investment returns to be restricted by home country bias.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by KeepItSimple78 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:18 pm

I do not avoid international. I am of the opinion that the greater diversification provided by adding international equities is tough to pass up.
Avid reader of personal finance/investing literature; however, no formal training in this area. My comments are always well-intended, and most often well-informed.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Wildebeest » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:20 pm

50 % of my portfolio is in international investing. I have second thoughts though after reading the Credit Suisse yearly report every year.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... oLVVu83kvw

What do I know?

What I know it is a random walk and it is helps to put it all in perspective and recall Jack Bogle's: " Nobody know nuthin' ".
The Golden Rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Roguejim » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:25 pm

flamesabers wrote:I invest in international funds in part because I don't want my investment returns to be restricted by home country bias.
But, it's not really "country bias" if, as Bogle puts it, "we know that we have the most innovative economy, the most productive economy, the most technologically advanced economy, the most diverse economy in the world", is it?

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by TimeRunner » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:29 pm

All in: VT and ACWI. If you're going to be a Boglehead, be all in. :beer
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by normaldude » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:31 pm

Roguejim wrote:
flamesabers wrote:I invest in international funds in part because I don't want my investment returns to be restricted by home country bias.
But, it's not really "country bias" if, as Bogle puts it, "we know that we have the most innovative economy, the most productive economy, the most technologically advanced economy, the most diverse economy in the world", is it?
1) "No empire lasts forever"

2) "Past performance is no guarantee of future results"

3) If it's publicly known that USA currently has the most innovative economy, then that information is already priced into the market.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by avalpert » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:38 pm

Roguejim wrote:
flamesabers wrote:I invest in international funds in part because I don't want my investment returns to be restricted by home country bias.
But, it's not really "country bias" if, as Bogle puts it, "we know that we have the most innovative economy, the most productive economy, the most technologically advanced economy, the most diverse economy in the world", is it?
Right, and it isn't market timing if we know the market is about to tank and it isn't speculation if we know that XYZ is about to go through the roof and it isn't risky to walk off a cliff if I know I can fly.

It is almost the very definition of home country bias when one asserts they know they are in the 'most' anything of a forward looking nature economy.

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flamesabers
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by flamesabers » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:42 pm

Roguejim wrote:
flamesabers wrote:I invest in international funds in part because I don't want my investment returns to be restricted by home country bias.
But, it's not really "country bias" if, as Bogle puts it, "we know that we have the most innovative economy, the most productive economy, the most technologically advanced economy, the most diverse economy in the world", is it?
I think it would be "home country bias" to assume our country will be #1 in perpetuity. Economies flourish and shrink, sometimes unpredictably.

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rob
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by rob » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:53 pm

flamesabers wrote:
Roguejim wrote:
flamesabers wrote:I invest in international funds in part because I don't want my investment returns to be restricted by home country bias.
But, it's not really "country bias" if, as Bogle puts it, "we know that we have the most innovative economy, the most productive economy, the most technologically advanced economy, the most diverse economy in the world", is it?
I think it would be "home country bias" to assume our country will be #1 in perpetuity. Economies flourish and shrink, sometimes unpredictably.
It's far more than just home country bias..... It's just not true :D
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Alchemist » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:01 pm

Yes, I avoid international investing and I am a 100% U.S investor.

The short version for why is that I believe, for a U.S. based investor, that investing in international stocks exposes you to a great deal of additional risk with no reward for it. The global economy is exposed to any Black Swan event that hits the U.S. but the opposite is not true. A Black Swan that hits Europe or Asia will have a much smaller impact on the U.S. If the U.S. economy tanks due to a Black Swan, we are taking everyone else with us anyway. So why take on the additional risk of foreign Black Swans and currency risk? Not to mention the additional costs of international funds and the complication of tax issues.

If you are still curious, the longish version for why I am a U.S. only investor is below.

Comparing the United States to Japan, or any other country for that matter, is to completely miss how the global system works. The U.S. is the security guarantor for many other states, as well as the entire ocean as far as global trade is concerned. The Dollar is the global reserve currency, all commodities are traded in dollars, and the peace of Europe and Asia is underwritten with American power. So the United States has unique advantages, a unique role in keeping the global economic system intact, and is insulated from foreign Black Swans (due to size and previously mentioned unique advantages) while the world remains exposed to American Black Swans.

Additionally I will go even a bit further into speculative territory for why I think the American economy will likely out perform the global economy as a whole. The rest of the developed world have upside down demographics. Our millennial generation is larger than Gen X or even the Baby Boomers. That is not true for the rest of the developed world (with a few smaller countries being exceptions). The Eurozone, South Korea, Japan, and even China are facing demographic cliffs as their baby boomers age into full retirement. For example, by 2025 even China will have a higher average age than America. Only the U.S. (out of the 10 largest economies) will have enough millennials to continue expanding its workforce and therefore the only large economy with an expanding consumer market. Basically the EU, Korea, and China are the ones who actually ought to be compared to Japan as the Japanese economic stagnation and demographics are just a decade or two ahead them.

Many people will object and say that the market must surely have priced this in. Well maybe it has. It is international advocates, after all, that keep pointing out the rock bottom valuations of International stocks compared to domestic ones. Not every cheap buy is a good buy.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Roguejim » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:03 pm

avalpert wrote:
Roguejim wrote:
flamesabers wrote:I invest in international funds in part because I don't want my investment returns to be restricted by home country bias.
But, it's not really "country bias" if, as Bogle puts it, "we know that we have the most innovative economy, the most productive economy, the most technologically advanced economy, the most diverse economy in the world", is it?
Right, and it isn't market timing if we know the market is about to tank and it isn't speculation if we know that XYZ is about to go through the roof and it isn't risky to walk off a cliff if I know I can fly.

It is almost the very definition of home country bias when one asserts they know they are in the 'most' anything of a forward looking nature economy.
I don't think Jack could be accused of a home country "bias" unless his remarks were the by-product of an "unreasoned distortion of judgment". I don't think that's the case, but hey, what do I know?

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by stemikger » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:40 pm

Roguejim wrote:I've been trying to get up to speed, watching a few of his interviews. Sounds like he's advocating a 2-fund portfolio, correct?
Yes, you are correct. He advocates the all U.S. Total Stock Market Index and Total Bond Market Index. That's it. Or, if you want a 60/40 portfolio, he always suggests the Vanguard Balanced Index Fund and your' all done.

I follow the 2 fund approach except I use the Vanguard Institutional Index and the Black rock U.S. Bond Index. The reason for this is because my 401K does not have Jack's recommendations. When I roll over my 401K into my IRA it will most likely go into the Balanced Index for my wife's sake.
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by stemikger » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:46 pm

Alchemist wrote:Yes, I avoid international investing and I am a 100% U.S investor.

The short version for why is that I believe, for a U.S. based investor, that investing in international stocks exposes you to a great deal of additional risk with no reward for it. The global economy is exposed to any Black Swan event that hits the U.S. but the opposite is not true. A Black Swan that hits Europe or Asia will have a much smaller impact on the U.S. If the U.S. economy tanks due to a Black Swan, we are taking everyone else with us anyway. So why take on the additional risk of foreign Black Swans and currency risk? Not to mention the additional costs of international funds and the complication of tax issues.

If you are still curious, the longish version for why I am a U.S. only investor is below.

Comparing the United States to Japan, or any other country for that matter, is to completely miss how the global system works. The U.S. is the security guarantor for many other states, as well as the entire ocean as far as global trade is concerned. The Dollar is the global reserve currency, all commodities are traded in dollars, and the peace of Europe and Asia is underwritten with American power. So the United States has unique advantages, a unique role in keeping the global economic system intact, and is insulated from foreign Black Swans (due to size and previously mentioned unique advantages) while the world remains exposed to American Black Swans.

Additionally I will go even a bit further into speculative territory for why I think the American economy will likely out perform the global economy as a whole. The rest of the developed world have upside down demographics. Our millennial generation is larger than Gen X or even the Baby Boomers. That is not true for the rest of the developed world (with a few smaller countries being exceptions). The Eurozone, South Korea, Japan, and even China are facing demographic cliffs as their baby boomers age into full retirement. For example, by 2025 even China will have a higher average age than America. Only the U.S. (out of the 10 largest economies) will have enough millennials to continue expanding its workforce and therefore the only large economy with an expanding consumer market. Basically the EU, Korea, and China are the ones who actually ought to be compared to Japan as the Japanese economic stagnation and demographics are just a decade or two ahead them.

Many people will object and say that the market must surely have priced this in. Well maybe it has. It is international advocates, after all, that keep pointing out the rock bottom valuations of International stocks compared to domestic ones. Not every cheap buy is a good buy.
+1

Great post!
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by venkman » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:47 pm

I haven't been able to find a lot of general data about historical international returns, but what I do find seems to say that, historically, international stocks have underperformed U.S. stocks AND had higher risk.

This (http://www.crsp.com/files/investments_i ... cation.pdf) gives a figure of 9.9% return/20.1% risk for Large U.S. stocks, vs. 8.0% return/21.9% risk for international stocks (1928-2014).

I can understand holding Intl. stocks for diversification purposes, but the returns have grown more and more correlated with the U.S. market. It all goes up or down at the same time. If the markets are going to move together, why not go all in on the one with less risk and better returns?

There is a case to be made for not putting all your assets into one country, but if something happens to bring down the American economy that much, won't it likely bring down much of the world economy with it?

Based on the data I've been looking at, my feeling is that holding a significant amount in intl. stocks made a lot of sense 40 years ago, but the reasons it did are not necessarily valid (or at least not AS valid) today. However, if anyone has other data (or other interpretations of the same data), I'm happy to listen. :)

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by normaldude » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:00 am

Alchemist wrote:The short version for why is that I believe, for a U.S. based investor, that investing in international stocks exposes you to a great deal of additional risk with no reward for it. The global economy is exposed to any Black Swan event that hits the U.S. but the opposite is not true. A Black Swan that hits Europe or Asia will have a much smaller impact on the U.S. If the U.S. economy tanks due to a Black Swan, we are taking everyone else with us anyway. So why take on the additional risk of foreign Black Swans and currency risk?
Ok, black swan event: To pay for $20 trillion in national debt, trillions in unfunded social security & medicare obligations, the US government nationalizes & seizes control of US companies. The US companies are still operating, but US stocks become worthless. In that scenario, foreign stocks are worth more than US stocks (which are now worthless). The US companies are still operating (like during the GM bankruptcy), so foreign stocks are unaffected.

Thus, global diversification makes sense.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by MathWizard » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:02 am

Yes, but only because I can't quantify the
Currency risk
Political risk, and
I don't understand or keep abreast of the laws in other countries.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by triceratop » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:03 am

Alchemist wrote:Yes, I avoid international investing and I am a 100% U.S investor.

The short version for why is that I believe, for a U.S. based investor, that investing in international stocks exposes you to a great deal of additional risk with no reward for it. The global economy is exposed to any Black Swan event that hits the U.S. but the opposite is not true. A Black Swan that hits Europe or Asia will have a much smaller impact on the U.S. If the U.S. economy tanks due to a Black Swan, we are taking everyone else with us anyway. So why take on the additional risk of foreign Black Swans and currency risk? Not to mention the additional costs of international funds and the complication of tax issues.
It's remarkably diversified. When someone points out you are taking single-country risk by going 100% stocks, it is pointed out being a U.S. investor is diversified because you are exposed to international economies with U.S. companies. But wait, there's more! The U.S. stock market is protected from black swans in foreign economies. The U.S. stock market can be whatever you want it to be in a situation . That's what I call "diversified". :happy
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by msk » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:13 am

I am currently residing in a tiny, obscure country with a nascent stock market, not even part of "Emerging Markets". I actually have enough time to go through most of the quarterly reports of interest. I own 14 of these companies, my average P/E (weighted by how much I own) is 9.7, Dividend Yield is 5.8%. None of the companies I own are stagnant, but are growing, either slowly or vigorously. Local currency is tied to the USD. I have over many years, tried to shift my investments to "Developed/Mature" markets. Currently I am at 30% USA and 20% rest of the world, i.e. 50% outside my local market. I suspect that many less developed stock markets may have inefficiencies that lead to very good valuations like exist in my tiny market. P/E of > 25 for the SP500 are NOT particularly attractive, no matter how we try to paint it. We accept it because we see no viable alternatives with less risk. The Japanese went through this "justification" in the 1980s. Black Swans will happen. But something going awfully awry with an Internet/tech company (all the top ones in the SP500) can go disastrously wrong very, very rapidly, perhaps far less likely with a bricks and mortar company. Nokia, Yahoo, etc. If one is comfortable with a P/E > 25 then probably no reason to go international. It will take a 40% drop in the SP500 to bring its P/E to a more palatable 15. Over a 300 year history, according to Thomas Picketty, Capital in the 21st Century, industry and commerce has returned an average of 5% p.a. in real terms (Productive Real Estate 4% real). You cannot get 5% real return at a P/E > 25. Greed and Fear, that's what investing is about.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by JoMoney » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:41 am

Yes, having Jack Bogle and Warren Buffett offer the advice to follow such a portfolio has bolstered my decision to do so.
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Bogle_Feet » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:12 am

I'm with Jack Bogle. I only have about 5% international. When US stocks get a cold, international stocks get pneumonia. Also I believe these PIIGS countries will bring down international stocks down and money will flee to the US. Also 46% of S&P 500 company revenue is international. I figure I'm already diversified.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by trasmuss » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:40 am

I am at 20% of stocks. Vanguard research says you will get 85% of the diversification benefits with 20%.

I believe most of the benefits of international diversification is in currency diversification, not company diversification. It would be interesting to have Larry (or someone into research) explore this. Over the years it has seemed that the value of the dollar will determine whether international diversification will make you money or lose you money. Even more importantly, it seems the value of the dollar goes in trends many times lasting years. You don't appear to have to market time it simply look at the current trend you are in and adjust it when the trend reverses (no worry about missing a few months).

We are in a strong dollar trend. Compare the returns of Total Stock to Total International for 5 and 10 years. When it reverses Total International will outperform Total Stock for perhaps years.

Based on this "theory", I would have no problem being 0% in international at this point. Based on history international stocks have not protected at times of crashes (they seem to go down at least as much as domestic).

So here is a challenge to Larry or someone else. Back test my theory and explain why Vanguard's 40% recommendation still makes sense (or a market weighting).

How much money has been lost by Vanguard's clients following their switch from 20%, to 30% and finally 40% of portfolios? Could they have waited for the currency trend to have change (better being a little late than much to early)?

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Ari » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:45 am

Roguejim wrote:I don't think Jack could be accused of a home country "bias" unless his remarks were the by-product of an "unreasoned distortion of judgment". I don't think that's the case, but hey, what do I know?
I personally think it is the case. Jack Bogle knows a lot about the US stock market, but he has a very rose-tinted view of America.

Jack Bogle claims the US has "the most innovative economy", yet the country is classed as #9 by Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -economies . Sure, that's not too shabby, but it's not #1.

Jack Bogle claims the US is "the most productive economy", yet it ranks as #5 on the Global Competitiveness Index. Again, not bad, but it's not #1. http://www3.weforum.org/docs/GCR2013-14 ... 013-14.pdf

For "most technologically advanced", it's a bit hard to find a good international ranking, but there's the ICT index, measuring Information and Communications Technology. The US is at number 14. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICT_Development_Index

Bogle has also been quoted as saying something about the US having the best "investor protection". Again, I'm not sure about the best index, but the rank in "Protecting Minority Investors" of the Ease of Doing Business Index seems relevant. The US is at #41 in the world here. Not exactly top of the class: http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/explo ... ed-states/

Oh, and Bogle has also, I believe, talked about how the US is the least corrupt economy. According to Transparency International, we find the US at number 18: https://www.transparency.org/news/featu ... index_2016

It's not that the US is a terrible economy. It ranks pretty well on a lot of international comparisons. But Bogle seems to think it's #1 in everything, and yet it's hardly #1 in anything.

EDIT: And even if the US were number one in these rankings, I'm not at all convinced that any of this correlates well with equity returns.
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by orca91 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:11 am

I don't "avoid" international.... I just choose not to hold any. :happy

That puts me in the minority though.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Artisan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:08 am

About 10% of our portfolio is international. I view is at a value tilt.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by orca91 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:17 am

That's a poor way to view it.

Tilting is TSM having value in it and you want to put a little more in value, so you buy a little extra. Having no international stocks in TSM and then adding 10% is like, what's the point? :happy

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by topper1296 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:35 am

dwickenh wrote:I do not avoid it, and I keep 20-25% of my stock in foreign stock index funds.

Dan
Same here. 20-25% in total int'l index.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by jhfenton » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:44 am

50% U.S., 50% international, with a tilt toward small and emerging markets.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Da5id » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:44 am

One third of my stock holdings are international. I believe in hedging my bets. I don't go full market weight, but that is more a comfort zone issue than an intellectual or philosophical choice. I don't really think the US will be like Japan, but who knows, and putting eggs in a few other baskets seems wise to me.

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by BogleMelon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:07 am

I have 30% of my portfolio in Total international stock fund. I don't want to miss the great international companies such as Toyota, Honda, Airbus...etc
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bigred77
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by bigred77 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:18 am

Mine is almost the same as jhfentons. Close to 50% of equities is in International with a tilt to small and EM.

Jack Bogle and Warren Buffet both have made statements in the past that indicate they have some home country bias. It's OK, these guys are titans of industry, not infallible. We all have bias in some form or another.

The US economy will probably not remain the biggest economy in perpetuity. I invest accordingly.

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ruralavalon
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by ruralavalon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:21 am

Roguejim wrote:I've been trying to get up to speed, watching a few of his interviews. Sounds like he's advocating a 2-fund portfolio, correct?
Yes he advocates a 2 fund approach.

I do have 25% of stocks in international stocks, using Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund.

There has been endless debate about international stock allocation for as long as I can recall.
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deltaneutral83
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by deltaneutral83 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:27 am

Well, don't a lot of the huge S&P companies have international exposure (AAPL, MSFT, CSCO). Do you all incorporate that into your "I have x% in international"

Mike Scott
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Mike Scott » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:30 am

I believe that the argument that many US companies are multinational carries some weight but I don't know how to put a number on that. I do have some international within balanced funds but it's probably not enough to make much difference.

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CyclingDuo
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by CyclingDuo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:32 am

Do we avoid international investing?

God, no!

Having lived overseas for nearly 1/3 of our working careers to see the populations, bustling corporate world, and businesses in other areas of the world - we would be NUTS to avoid investing in international.

Current look at 3 areas of the world...

319 Million people live in the US
743 Million people live in Europe
4.436 Billion people live in Asia

You cannot be as diverse invested solely in the US stock market/bond market.
"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

Hekla
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Hekla » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:40 am

No. Personally, I'm invested in it every day I go to work for a massive megacorp publicly traded on another country's stock market. I also married a foreigner, lived abroad several years, speak other languages, live close to the maple border, you get the picture.

Portfolio looks like this:

Both 401ks: 25% VTSNX
Both Roths: 100% VBIAX ~ some negligible amount of foreign stocks/bonds
HSA: 20% VEU and VSS
Taxable: 100% VMVFX = about 40% international stock

I'm pretty satisfied with this and see no reason to change it.
Last edited by Hekla on Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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midareff
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by midareff » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:42 am

Between 25% and 30% of equities are international.

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fourwedge
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by fourwedge » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:46 am

I'm 61/39 US/International
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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by Hallman » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:20 am

Looking at the numbers in the Credit Suisse Global Investment Returns Yearbook 2016, it's interesting to note that Europe was ~70% of the world market cap in 1900. I bet many people in 1900 would have believed that any black swan event hitting Europe, would devastate the global economy just as much. Just like many in this thread are assuming that a black swan event in the US will hit the global economy just as hard. 1900-1950, 50 years, European equities returned ~0% real. The world market returned ~4% real. This fascinates me - 70% of the market in 1900 returned 0% for the next 50 years, yet the world market still found a way to squeeze out a respectable return. Global investing is for me!

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Re: Do you avoid international investing like Jack Bogle?

Post by orca91 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:40 am

I bet many people in 1900 didn't invest in any sort of stocks or mutual funds. :D

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