Opinion about VGPMX for 2017 [Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining]

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:08 pm

I'm wondering of people's opinion about VGPMX for 2017 or in general. Is it too late to jump on it?

Thanks

willthrill81 · Post by **willthrill81** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:11 pm

lepa71 wrote:I'm wondering of people's opinion about VGPMX for 2017 or in general. Is it too late to jump on it?

Thanks

Two problems:
1. Most Bogleheads are not fans of investing in PM for the long-term (for good reason, their real return is very low to zero over the long-term). I personally hold some physical PM but only as worst-case insurance, not as an investment.
2. You're trying to time the market, which doesn't usually work since you must be right twice (when to buy and when to sell or vice versa).

ruralavalon · Post by **ruralavalon** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:54 pm

lepa71 wrote:I'm wondering of people's opinion about VGPMX for 2017 or in general. Is it too late to jump on it?

Thanks

Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining Fund (VGPMX) is extremely volatile, and likely will fluctuate wildly.

Too late? I won't even try to guess.

willthrill81 wrote:1. Most Bogleheads are not fans of investing in PM for the long-term (for good reason, their real return is very low to zero over the long-term). I personally hold some physical PM but only as worst-case insurance, not as an investment.

The Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining Fund (VGPMX) invests in stocks of companies in the mining industry. It invests almost nothing in precious metals.

David Jay · Post by **David Jay** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:01 pm

lepa71 wrote:I'm wondering of people's opinion about VGPMX for 2017 or in general. Is it too late to jump on it?

Bogleheads don't time (i.e."2017").

Bogleheads don't jump.

If it makes sense to you to hold the stocks of a (relatively) small number of mining companies as a tiny portion of your portfolio for the long haul, then go for it.

[edit] I actually considered adding VGPMX in 2015. I decided that it would have to be a very small portion of my portfolio (less than 5%) because of the volatility. I then came to the realization that holdings smaller than 5% do not "move" a portfolio - they are really just window dressing. So I did not purchase.

nisiprius · Post by **nisiprius** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:09 pm

In 'The Quest for Alpha,', p. 156, Larry Swedroe wrote:(Rules for Prudent Investing)
#17: Owning individual stocks and sector funds is more akin to speculating, not investing. The market compensates investors for risks that cannot be diversified away, like the risk of investing in stocks versus bonds. Investors shouldn't expect compensation for diversifiable risk--the unique risks related to owning one stock or sector or country fund. Prudent investors only accept risk for which they will be compensated with higher expected returns.

First, if your idea is "gold," then you need to be aware that VGPMX isn't an investment in gold, it's an investment in stocks. Specifically, stocks of "companies that are involved in the mining of or exploration for precious and rare metals and minerals."

Secondly, it's very narrowly focussed. It isn't even a major sector. The major sector is "materials." The sector is divided into five "industries." But it isn't even an industry, the "industry" is "metals and mining." That industry in turn is divided into seven sub-industries, "Aluminum," "Diversified Metals and Mining," "Copper," "Gold," Precious Metals and Minerals," "Silver," and "Steel."'

The stock market is divided into 157 of the "sub-industries," and this fund contains stocks in only one of them. So, compared to the kind of mutual funds mentioned in the Bogleheads investment philosophy, there is a lot of idiosyncratic risk here.

willthrill81 · Post by **willthrill81** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:17 pm

ruralavalon wrote:
willthrill81 wrote:1. Most Bogleheads are not fans of investing in PM for the long-term (for good reason, their real return is very low to zero over the long-term). I personally hold some physical PM but only as worst-case insurance, not as an investment.
The Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining Fund (VGPMX) invests in stocks of companies in the mining industry. It invests almost nothing in precious metals.

True, but the two are highly correlated.

snowshoes · Post by **snowshoes** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:22 pm

Considering everything posted above, additionally VGPMX hit a multi-decade low of $5.55ish, on 1/20s/16, add or plug-in your personal speculation metrics.

nisiprius · Post by **nisiprius** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:27 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:
willthrill81 wrote:1. Most Bogleheads are not fans of investing in PM for the long-term (for good reason, their real return is very low to zero over the long-term). I personally hold some physical PM but only as worst-case insurance, not as an investment.
The Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining Fund (VGPMX) invests in stocks of companies in the mining industry. It invests almost nothing in precious metals.
True, but the two are highly correlated.

Do you regard 0.48 as "highly correlated?"

Source

willthrill81 · Post by **willthrill81** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:28 pm

nisiprius wrote:
willthrill81 wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:
willthrill81 wrote:1. Most Bogleheads are not fans of investing in PM for the long-term (for good reason, their real return is very low to zero over the long-term). I personally hold some physical PM but only as worst-case insurance, not as an investment.
The Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining Fund (VGPMX) invests in stocks of companies in the mining industry. It invests almost nothing in precious metals.
True, but the two are highly correlated.
Do you regard 0.48 as "highly correlated?"

Source

Moderately at least.

Not a good idea regardless IMHO.

asif408 · Post by **asif408** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:38 pm

My opinion? A sprinkling might bump your returns up a bit over the long haul if you can handle the bone-crushing volatility and can rebalance it with discipline. Otherwise, don't mess with it.

kiddoc · Post by **kiddoc** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:14 pm

If you are asking for people's opinions in general about adding this asset class and will be swayed by that, stay away. If you can make an evidence-based evaluation of adding VGPMX, FOR THE LONG RUN to your portfolio, and express your reasons for doing so clearly, you can consider this. Still, be very deliberate about it. It is a very volatile asset class. Timing your moves in and out of this asset class is unlikely to work. Please read wise words from Dr. Bernstein The longest discipline. If you decide to add this, be prepared to hang on for 2017, 2018, 2019.... 2059.

Full disclosure: 5% of my equities are in gold miners. I chose to add this asset class from the outset as it is expected to improve the Sharpe ratio (risk-adjusted return) of my slice-and-dice portfolio in pretty much any long term back-testing I can do. Expected and actual returns can differ. I have stuck with my decision through highs and lows, re-balancing faithfully. This tiny slice of my portfolio has helped improve my equity portfolio return by ~1%. If I had used market timing and heard opinions of pundits, the outcome would have probably been negative 1%. Who knows what will happen in future?

Taylor Larimore · Post by **Taylor Larimore** » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:40 pm

lepa71 wrote:I'm wondering of people's opinion about VGPMX for 2017 or in general. Is it too late to jump on it?

Thanks

lepa71:

Most specialty stocks like Vanguard Precious Metals (VGPMX) are already in total market index funds without volatility risk and market timing mistakes.

Best wishes.
Taylor

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:01 am

Thank you guys for all replies. It is very helpful. I'm running hybrid and not just set and forget strategy, so I do adjust more often than some of you.

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:20 am

Hey guys. I'm thinking to try out Vanguard ETFs. In particular VUG. There are VIGRX and VIGAX. One is admiral shares and other just investor's level.

Is there much difference between admiral and investor share except for fees and minimum purchase limit?
What do you think about ETF ( hopefully I'm not opening can of worms

)?

Thanks

kiddoc · Post by **kiddoc** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:30 am

lepa71 wrote:Hey guys. I'm thinking to try out Vanguard ETFs. In particular VUG. There are VIGRX and VIGAX.
Thanks

Rather than give an opinion about this, let me ask you: why are you thinking to try out these funds?

To answer your other questions:
ETFs vs mutual funds

Vanguard fund share classes

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:51 am

Because I think it may bring higher return than index funds. I know it is kinds against bogleheads mentality, but like i said i'm trying more of a hybrid strategy.

I originally put into Target retirement fund, but then read and found VEIPX and was pretty happy with it's performance compare to VTIVX. At the beginning of this year I added VWIGX and so far pretty happy with it's performance.

I look at Zacks and yahoo for reviews and suggestions. So I found VIGRX in some reviews and want to try it. My portfolio is really small about 18K now in traditional IRA.

kiddoc · Post by **kiddoc** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:16 pm

lepa71 wrote:Because I think it may bring higher return than index funds.

The funds you want to try out are also index funds. They just track indices for large-cap growth companies in the US. Tell me why you think large-cap growth will do better than any other segment of the market over the next, say 10-20 years. Also, tell me what part of this information is not known to large investment firms and not priced into the current asking price for these funds.

Just trying to help you understand the rationale behind your investing decisions.

ruralavalon · Post by **ruralavalon** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:36 pm

lepa71 wrote:Because I think it may bring higher return than index funds. I know it is kinds against bogleheads mentality, but like i said i'm trying more of a hybrid strategy.

I originally put into Target retirement fund, but then read and found Vanguard Equity-Income Fund VEIPX and was pretty happy with it's performance compare to Vanguard Target Retirement 2045 Fund VTIVX. At the beginning of this year I added Vanguard International Growth Fund VWIGX and so far pretty happy with it's performance.

I look at Zacks and yahoo for reviews and suggestions. So I found Vanguard Growth Index Fund VIGRX in some reviews and want to try it. My portfolio is really small about 18K now in traditional IRA.

Please make a point of using the fund names in addition to ticker symbols, that makes it a lot easier to understand what you are asking about.

You seem to be doing a lot of adding or switching funds with no apparent plan, calling it a "hybrid strategy" doesn't make it a strategy at all.

I suggest that you read one or two good books on general investing, please see the wiki article "books: recommendations and reviews". Also explore the Bogleheads wiki a little, see the link below to "getting started". Then decide on a plan and stick with it.

In my opinion a target retirement fund is a good way to start with your $18k in the traditional IRA, if that is the only account you have.

Is there a work-based plan (such as a 401k, 403b, 457, TSP, etc.) offered at your job? If so it's important to make use of that plan if the fund choices offered in the plan are decent, especially if there is an employer match offered in that plan.

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:20 pm

There is no 401K in my company.

The reason I'm calling it "hybrid" is that I don't feel that set it and forget it with reevaluating once in couple of year is good enough for me. I look at market more often. More like couple time a month. I does not mean I will switch funds each time. I know, I know not a boglehead mentality. Put that a side. When I started in February last year I put everything 50% into Vanguard Target Retirement 2045 Fund VTIVX and 50% into Vanguard Equity-Income Fund VEIPX based on some reviews. I saw that Vanguard Equity-Income Fund VEIPX was going up more so I moved almost all into Vanguard Equity-Income Fund VEIPX. At the end of 2016 I compared 2 fund based on their performance and I feel I made the right decision. I totally understand that it may not work everytime, but I want to continue to do similar thing. This year I add more money into IRA and split it into Vanguard International Growth Fund VWIGX and Vanguard Equity-Income Fund VEIPX. The Vanguard International Growth Fund VWIGX is doing very well so far and outperforms Vanguard Equity-Income Fund VEIPX by good margin so I decide to look what else out there.

This is my story and I'm sticking to it

kiddoc · Post by **kiddoc** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:56 pm

I wish you good luck in your adventures. I will bow out of this discussion; can't give you much advice about funds since I have no experience with investing the way you do.

I would suggest you read about performance chasing in investing.

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:36 am

kiddoc wrote:I wish you good luck in your adventures. I will bow out of this discussion; can't give you much advice about funds since I have no experience with investing the way you do.

I would suggest you read about performance chasing in investing.

Thank you for your help

ruralavalon · Post by **ruralavalon** » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:24 pm

lepa71 wrote:There is no 401K in my company.

The reason I'm calling it "hybrid" is that I don't feel that set it and forget it with reevaluating once in couple of year is good enough for me. I look at market more often. More like couple time a month. I does not mean I will switch funds each time. I know, I know not a boglehead mentality. Put that a side. When I started in February last year I put everything 50% into Vanguard Target Retirement 2045 Fund VTIVX and 50% into Vanguard Equity-Income Fund VEIPX based on some reviews. I saw that Vanguard Equity-Income Fund VEIPX was going up more so I moved almost all into Vanguard Equity-Income Fund VEIPX. At the end of 2016 I compared 2 fund based on their performance and I feel I made the right decision. I totally understand that it may not work everytime, but I want to continue to do similar thing. This year I add more money into IRA and split it into Vanguard International Growth Fund VWIGX and Vanguard Equity-Income Fund VEIPX. The Vanguard International Growth Fund VWIGX is doing very well so far and outperforms Vanguard Equity-Income Fund VEIPX by good margin so I decide to look what else out there.

This is my story and I'm sticking to it

I look at the market indexes and our portfolio performance almost daily, but still use broadly diversified index funds on a buy and hold basis.

I still suggest some reading, please see the wiki article "books: recommendations and reviews", perhaps that will change your perspective. It can't hurt you to learn more

.

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:50 pm

Would you mind posting your portfolio with no amounts just percentages out of 100%. Does not have to be exact Thanks

ruralavalon · Post by **ruralavalon** » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:04 pm

lepa71 wrote:Would you mind posting your portfolio with no amounts just percentages out of 100%. Does not have to be exact Thanks

I am 71 and retired. The overall asset allocation is 50/50.

The portfolio is approximately this:
08%, Treasury bonds
08%, Vanguard Intermediate-term Investment Grade Bond Fund
34%, Vanguard Intermediate-term Bond Index Fund
Total= 50% bonds, about 1/2 government bonds and 1/2 corporate bonds

25%, Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund
05%, Vanguard REIT Index Fund
10%, Vanguard Small-cap Value Index Fund
10%, Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund
total = 50% stocks

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:20 pm

I'm 45. Probably another at least 20 years to go. What would you do? I'm not afraid of risk. As you can see I'm primarily in stock.

ruralavalon · Post by **ruralavalon** » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:50 pm

lepa71 wrote:I'm 45. Probably another at least 20 years to go. What would you do? I'm not afraid of risk. As you can see I'm primarily in stock.

Asset allocation.
At age 45 I suggest around 70/30 or 60/40 stocks/bonds. Please see the wiki articles "Bogleheads Investment Philosophy" part 3 "never bear too much or too little risk", and "asset allocation". (I am on vacation posting on a tablet, so cannot post links but can only tell you where you might look for more information.)

I suggest around 20 - 30 % of stocks in international stocks. Please see the Vanguard paper "Considerations for investing in non-U.S. equities", pp.5-6.

That works out to something like 30% bonds, 15% international stocks, and 55% domestic stocks, or like 40% bonds, 10% international stocks, and 50% domestic stocks.

Asset allocation is a very personal decision, you must decide this based on your own ability, willingness and need to take risk.

Do you have a desired asset allocation that you want to aim for?

Fund selection.
In Fund selection strive for a good combination of broad diversification (to reduce risk) and very low expense ratios (to increase your net gain). Low expense ratios are critical to fund selection, and are the best predictor of future fund performance.

It's not wise to focus on recent past performance in selecting funds. Please Google the term."recency bias", that is a very common behavioral mistake that investors make. Past performance does not predict future performance.

In my opinion it's important to keep it simple when just starting in investing.

As mentioned before, to achieve both goals with $18k a simple and easy way to start could be a Target Retirement Fund. Another possibility to start is Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth Fund (VSMGX), with a 60/40 stock/bond allocation. There are other LifeStrategy funds with different asset allocations.

To simply and easily achieve both goals, a third possible way to start is with a three-fund type portfolio. Please see the wiki article "three-fund portfolio" and the forum discussion "the three-fund portfolio".

For example you could do something like this:
55%, $10k, Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) ER 0.05%
15%, $3k, Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Investor Shares (VGTSX) ER. 0.19%
30%, $5k, Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund Investor Shares (VBMFX) ER 0.16%

VaR · Post by **VaR** » Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:54 pm

OP, I think it would help if you were to be more specific about what kinds of opinions you're looking for.

1. If you're looking for general advice on whether VGPMX should be in your retirement portfolio. I agree with everyone who says you don't need it.
2. If you're looking for advice on whether gold or other precious metals or their alleged equivalents should be in your retirement portfolio for their quality as an inflation hedge, I think the answer nowadays is no. You should hold government inflation protected notes. For negative correlation during crises, I would say maybe, but I'd rather hold Treasurys for that.
3. If you're asking whether Vanguard Precious Metals And Mining Fund Investor Shares (VGPMX) is a good proxy for gold, I remember reading some articles or books saying that gold mining stocks are not good proxies for gold - though they may be better or or worse as *investments*.
4. Consider gold ETFs like GLD and IAU. Then reconsider if you are considering them for speculation.
5. Or are you just looking to make a sector investment play?

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:32 pm

You don't think Growth Index Fund Adm VIGAX is better performing than Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX). Why would you pick one vs another? Same goes to International Growth Inv VWIGX vs your suggestion of Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Investor Shares (VGTSX).
Would you do this porfolio
Growth Index Fund Adm VIGAX $10K
International Growth Inv VWIGX $5k
Then $3k in either bonds or Vanguard LifeStrategy Income Fund (VASIX).

I used Vanguard survey to find my stock to bond ratio. It suggested 85/15. Why are you suggesting 70/30, if I may ask? Uncertainty?

This is very helpful I really do appropriate it. Thank you.

ruralavalon · Post by **ruralavalon** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:27 am

lepa71 wrote:You don't think Growth Index Fund Adm VIGAX is better performing than Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX). Why would you pick one vs another? Same goes to International Growth Inv VWIGX vs your suggestion of Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Investor Shares (VGTSX).
Would you do this porfolio
Growth Index Fund Adm VIGAX $10K
International Growth Inv VWIGX $5k
Then $3k in either bonds or Vanguard LifeStrategy Income Fund (VASIX).

Please Google for an article by Larry Swedroe "the black hole of investing". You will learn that in the long-term so-called "growth" stocks and funds have underperformed the rest of the market. Both "blend" and "value" stocks and funds have performed better.

The idea is to select funds for the long-term.

It's not wise to base decisions about fund selection on short-term performance. That's called "performance chasing" and "recency bias", and gets you the fund that recently did well. That will likely not be the fund that does well in the future.

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:59 am

Ok. I've read the article, but how do you explain this? The graph shows the difference. Am I missing something? I'm just trying to learn.

https://goo.gl/photos/Zt6uxShpXWRMPbND7

ruralavalon · Post by **ruralavalon** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:02 am

lepa71 wrote:Ok. I've read the article, but how do you explain this? The graph shows the difference. Am I missing something? I'm just trying to learn.

https://goo.gl/photos/Zt6uxShpXWRMPbND7

Ten years is not long-term.

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:08 am

But it does show the pattern. Is it not?

https://goo.gl/photos/5p5M1VRvSsNSNBmD9

asif408 · Post by **asif408** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:41 pm

lepa71 wrote:But it does show the pattern. Is it not?

https://goo.gl/photos/5p5M1VRvSsNSNBmD9

So what did the previous 10 year period look like? If it's not the same, there is no pattern.

lepa71 · Post by **lepa71** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:00 am

@asif408
I don't know, but it shows consistency for 10 years now. Thing change overtime.

ruralavalon · Post by **ruralavalon** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:26 am

Deleted

nedsaid · Post by **nedsaid** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:31 am

My best guess is that the train has already left the station. A Global Gold fund that I have followed for years is up over 71% over the last year. I have followed the fund but never purchased.

ruralavalon · Post by **ruralavalon** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:51 am

lepa71 wrote:But it does show the pattern. Is it not?

https://goo.gl/photos/5p5M1VRvSsNSNBmD9

No that is not a pattern. It shows that Vanguard Growth Index Fund (VIGAX) and Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSMX) were about even in performance over the last five years, and that over the previous 5 years the growth fund did better.

If you look at the full 25 years since the creation of Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund you will see that the total market fund has had better performance than the growth fund.

Invest for the long-term, not for the short-term.

onourway · Post by **onourway** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:03 pm

lepa71 - I would take a look at The Callan Periodic Table of Investment Returns. https://www.americancentury.com/content ... _Table.pdf

What should stand out to you here is the fact that the best performing sectors in one year are often the worst performing in the next. But there is no pattern. That's what makes performance chasing a losing game.

asif408 · Post by **asif408** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:08 pm

lepa71 wrote:@asif408
I don't know, but it shows consistency for 10 years now. Thing change overtime.

Let me help you: It underperformed the previous 10 years:

http://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fun ... A%5B%5D%7D

So based on the two 10 year patterns, would you expect growth to outperform or underperform the next 10 years? Frankly, I don't see either one outperforming the other for more than 10 years. I just see one doing better for a while, then the other, going back and forth.

David Jay · Post by **David Jay** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:14 pm

lepa71 wrote:@asif408
I don't know, but it shows consistency for 10 years now. Thing change overtime.

Lepa:
Even the available 90 year market histories are too short to say anything statistically significant about the future. Ten years is a flash. It doesn't even include the "dot com" bubble. Much less Black Monday or the stock investing doldrums that were the 1960s.

You really don't seem to know what you don't know (i.e. that you are not smarter than the market). You also don't have enough of a portfolio to be trying to slice-and-dice with a tablespoon of market timing thrown in. Drop your portfolio in a Target Date until you have enough to purchase Admiral shares. Maybe by then you will have come to realize that Zacks and Yahoo are not your friends.

Read, Read, Read: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Books:_ ... nd_reviews

My recommendations from that list are:
1. Bernstein "If you Can" (free download)
2. Bernstein "Four Pillars"
3. Malkiel "A Random Walk down Wall Street"

Dutch · Post by **Dutch** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:25 pm

The fund has done very well for me.

If/when the price drops below $8.00 I'll probably start buying again.

Edit: I should add that it's only a small portion of a diversified portfolio

jaj2276 · Post by **jaj2276** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:35 pm

My AA is 10% precious metals. I try to hold my precious metals as physical bullion but this fund comes in handy to make up for any shortfall (and also helps with liquidity in case my precious metals increase in value and I need to rebalance out of precious metals).

I will say that this fund is probably good to hold IF you plan on making additional purchases and have the intestinal fortitude to do so. I started buying back in 2014 and during my purchases in 2015, I was down about 30%. It was great to buy then because now I'm now up about 30%. If I had done a simple buy and hold strategy, I might be break even.

ruralavalon · Post by **ruralavalon** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:36 pm

David Jay wrote: Read, Read, Read: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Books:_ ... nd_reviews

My recommendations from that list are:
1. Bernstein "If you Can" (free download)
2. Bernstein "Four Pillars"
3. Malkiel "A Random Walk down Wall Street"

lepa71, I again suggest you read a few books listed in that wiki article.

The books that David Jay suggests are a good ideas to start.

onourway · Post by **onourway** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:44 pm

I'm failing to see how this fund is a good choice for buy and hold. The returns over any long-term period are abysmal. It's down 30% over 10 years. It's under-performed the S&P by 30% over 20 years, and by 75% over 30 years, with far more volatility.

I don't see why you'd hold this unless you were speculating.

Whakamole · Post by **Whakamole** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:00 pm

lepa71 wrote:I'm wondering of people's opinion about VGPMX for 2017 or in general. Is it too late to jump on it?

Thanks

I was wondering why we weren't seeing price updates on this fund like we were regularly early last year. That's because the fund stopped doing well. Now that it's doing well again, we have another thread.