Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here.
Trying2Save
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:25 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by Trying2Save » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:52 am

Is anyone else surprised at how disappointing the funds are performing? Maybe it's just me and my AA, but in a time when the market continues to grow and hit all-time highs, my YTD gains aren't as high as I was expecting.

TSWNY
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:05 pm

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by TSWNY » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:57 am

alpenglow wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:44 am
TSWNY wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:22 am
willie838 wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:28 am
how is everyone making out with this a few months in....

i was just looking over the full listings and checking ERs...i'm unsure why but.

NYSDCB RUSSELL 2500 2.25
NYSDCB Equity Index 0.84
NYSDCB Debt Index 1.98

....

whaaaaaaat.

What the.....!!!!!! I just noticed this as well. I'm calling my account rep right now! I thought the ER's were supposed to be ultra low??

Update: Just got off the phone with the rep and she was surprised as well. She's looking into it and calling me back. I'll post an update as soon as I hear.
No need to worry. The decimals are misplaced. The ER's are:

NYSDCB RUSSELL 2500 0.0225
NYSDCB Equity Index 0.0084
NYSDCB Debt Index 0.0198
Yup, that makes much more sense. Thanks!

TSWNY
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:05 pm

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by TSWNY » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:38 am

Trying2Save wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:52 am
Is anyone else surprised at how disappointing the funds are performing? Maybe it's just me and my AA, but in a time when the market continues to grow and hit all-time highs, my YTD gains aren't as high as I was expecting.
Whats your AA?

I'm 55% Large Cap, 15% Russell 2500 and 30% bond. All in the new BlackRock CIT's.

Trying2Save
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:25 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by Trying2Save » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:49 am

TSWNY wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:38 am
Trying2Save wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:52 am
Is anyone else surprised at how disappointing the funds are performing? Maybe it's just me and my AA, but in a time when the market continues to grow and hit all-time highs, my YTD gains aren't as high as I was expecting.
Whats your AA?

I'm 55% Large Cap, 15% Russell 2500 and 30% bond. All in the new BlackRock CIT's.
I'm 55% NYSDCB Equity Index Unitized Account (Large Cap), 20% International Equity Fund - Index Portfolio, 15% NYSDCB Russell 2500 Index Unitized Account, and 10% Bond.

slimshady
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:48 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by slimshady » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:55 pm

Hey guys. I have been participating in this plan for 22 years. I follow a 3 fund portfolio using both NYSDCB Equity / Bond funds and an International Index Fund. (The Plan represents approximately 35-40% of my portfolio). I used to love my VG S&P/Total Bond funds and was disappointed when they were replaced. I would check my account once per month to review my income dividends that Total Bond was paying. That has now ended with the inclusion of the CITs....I miss seeing how those dividends were increasing the value of my account, even though I understand they are accumulated in the funds net asset value.

I believe the new fund lineup will remain in place for the next 8-10 years at which time The Plan's funds will be revisited.

Other than that, the transition went smoothly at my end.

SimplicityNow
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:31 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by SimplicityNow » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:12 pm

Trying2Save wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:52 am
Is anyone else surprised at how disappointing the funds are performing? Maybe it's just me and my AA, but in a time when the market continues to grow and hit all-time highs, my YTD gains aren't as high as I was expecting.

I'm not sure what you are looking at but you need to remember the YTD performance is only since the formation of the fund this summer. You can't compare it to the YTD performances of the varying indexes which go back to January 1, 2017.

NHRATA01
Posts: 555
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: New York City area

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by NHRATA01 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:32 pm

I believe those charges are in basis points which are 100ths of a percent, ie 2 basis points =0.02%. Kind of recall reading that somewhere in the documentation when figuring out the ER.

secondact
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:14 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by secondact » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:34 am

Just thought I would post this very eloquent explanation of the difference between Vanguard and BlackRock by Jack Bogle. I don't think I have done a very good job of expressing my reservations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC8rWTGZhak

secondact
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:14 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by secondact » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:40 am

This preceding link was originally posted on a different thread by Snarlyjack, but it addresses the conflicts inherent in a for-profit company that manages mutual funds. FWIW, my new BlackRock CITs seem to be doing fine, for now...

SimplicityNow
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:31 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by SimplicityNow » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:40 pm

For those who are participants in the plan:

I'm considering doing some rebalancing with this account. I need to increase my fixed income asset allocation and am considering using the
Blackrock US Debt Index Fund (CIT).

From what I can see it is pretty similar to Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund. A few percentage less government or corporate but basically the same.

Anyone using this as part of the bond portion of their portfolio?

TSWNY
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:05 pm

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by TSWNY » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:39 pm

SimplicityNow wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:40 pm
For those who are participants in the plan:

I'm considering doing some rebalancing with this account. I need to increase my fixed income asset allocation and am considering using the
Blackrock US Debt Index Fund (CIT).

From what I can see it is pretty similar to Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund. A few percentage less government or corporate but basically the same.

Anyone using this as part of the bond portion of their portfolio?
I've been using it in my and my wife's 457b's since they switched over this summer. It's worked just fine and I'm pretty sure it tracks the same index. There is just no monthly dividend payout.

willie838
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:37 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by willie838 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:33 am

i truly miss seeing the dividends stack up from the assorted vanguard funds i was holding......

considering transitioning to making roth contributions to the 457b because the tax climate may never be better for it......

i have an outside roth ira but the idea of getting all the invested money and growth out without any tax burden in the future seems like a really beautiful deal. Up until now i've almost been hedging (well, at about a 3:1 pre tax contribution vs roth ira contribution)

greatwhite24
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:30 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by greatwhite24 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:33 pm

I was just checking through the Nysdcp website and noticed that they charge .40% for annualized asset based fees. That’s above what the expense ratios are. I tried to do a little more digging and there is a lot of people saying it’s actually .60%. Is this new or was it always this way. I always thought the admin fees were quite low.

greatwhite24
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:30 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by greatwhite24 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:56 pm

Forgot to also ask if anyone is investing in Schwab through Nysdcp? Wondering how that works.

TinpotInvestor
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:45 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by TinpotInvestor » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:16 pm

greatwhite24 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:33 pm
I was just checking through the Nysdcp website and noticed that they charge .40% for annualized asset based fees. That’s above what the expense ratios are. I tried to do a little more digging and there is a lot of people saying it’s actually .60%. Is this new or was it always this way. I always thought the admin fees were quite low.
There's an annual fee of $20, plus 0.04% on balances over $20,000 and capped at $200,000. I understand that as NOT marginal, meaning it is $20 at $20,000, and $20+$8 ($20,000*0.0004) = $28 at $20,000.01. And for balances over $200,000, then the annual fee is capped at $100 ($20+$80) ($200,000*0.0004).

Perhaps someone with a higher balance than I do can comment on that.

TinpotInvestor
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:45 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by TinpotInvestor » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:49 pm

From the April 2018 Quarterly Newsletter:
Board Revises Fee Schedule
The Plan’s administrative services are supported by a $20 per participant annual fee and an asset-based fee charged every April and October. The participant asset-based fee is charged only to accounts over $20,000 and is not charged on assets exceeding $200,000. The Plan also earns interest on the Plan’s trust accounts which is used to support operations.

Due to strict budgetary controls and an increase in Plan assets, the Board adopted an annualized .035% asset based fee ($3.50 per $10,000 of assets) effective April 1, 2018. This is 3.5 one-hundredths of a percent, not 3.5%. This is a decrease from the annualized .040% asset-based fee levied in the previous three fiscal years.

Complete details regarding the Plan’s administrative expenses and fees may be found on the Plan’s Web site under "Plan Administration" at www.nysdcp.com.
and
Participants in the New York State Deferred Compensation Plan will be charged administrative fees for the Plan Year beginning April 1, 2018 and ending March 31, 2019. Each participant account is charged a $20 annual fee, assessed in two $10 semi-annual installments in April and October. In addition, an asset-based fee determined by the Board will be assessed to participants with a balance greater than $20,000. The asset-based fee will not be assessed on assets in excess of $200,000. The semi-annual asset-based fee assessed in October 2017 was 0.020%. It is anticipated that the semi-annual asset-based fee to be assessed in April 2018 will be 0.0175%.

TinpotInvestor
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:45 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by TinpotInvestor » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:51 pm

I just got charged the semi-annual account fee for October. It was the semi-annual fixed fee of $10 plus a semi-annual asset based fee of $3.75 (around 0.0175% of account value). My account value is just above $20,000, so the asset based fee is NOT marginal, meaning semi-annual total fees are $10 at $20,000 and $13.5 at $20,000.01. At balances $200,000 and over, total semi-annual fee should be $45.

NYCwriter
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:46 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by NYCwriter » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:46 pm

TinpotInvestor wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:51 pm
I just got charged the semi-annual account fee for October. It was the semi-annual fixed fee of $10 plus a semi-annual asset based fee of $3.75 (around 0.0175% of account value). My account value is just above $20,000, so the asset based fee is NOT marginal, meaning semi-annual total fees are $10 at $20,000 and $13.5 at $20,000.01. At balances $200,000 and over, total semi-annual fee should be $45.
Feh. I'm about to pass the 20,000 mark.

Way to stick it to the little guys.

Topic Author
bennettg
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:28 am

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by bennettg » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:32 am

I am trying to use the portfolio tracker on Morningstar to keep track of the investments in the DCP. One of the board members told me to use BSMKX to track the Russel 2500, BMOIX to track the US Debt and VIIIX to track the Equity Index 500.

I went to Morningstar and inputed these tickers along with the number of shares I own of the DCP (CIT) versions and the DCP price from closing on Friday. But Morningstar says the value of my portfolio is MUCH, MUCH higher than what DCP says it is with the CITs.

Does anyone know how to use Morningstar to get an accurate picture of the value of the holdings? I use it to track other investments (529, wife 401k, etc) and would like to do the same for DCP.

Thank you

Godot
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:44 pm
Location: Little Beirut

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by Godot » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:00 pm

bennettg wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:32 am
I am trying to use the portfolio tracker on Morningstar to keep track of the investments in the DCP. One of the board members told me to use BSMKX to track the Russel 2500, BMOIX to track the US Debt and VIIIX to track the Equity Index 500.

I went to Morningstar and inputed these tickers along with the number of shares I own of the DCP (CIT) versions and the DCP price from closing on Friday. But Morningstar says the value of my portfolio is MUCH, MUCH higher than what DCP says it is with the CITs.

Does anyone know how to use Morningstar to get an accurate picture of the value of the holdings? I use it to track other investments (529, wife 401k, etc) and would like to do the same for DCP.

Thank you
I'd like to know this as well. I hate the opacity of CITs and stay away from them in NYSDCP, apart from the (only) bond CIT. So few choices in the plan, and so little transparency. I had to call to find out the ER of the Stable Value Fund, since it's not listed on the fact sheet or on the Fund Performance page (it's 0.35%.). This is what happens when an insurance company runs a 457.
Last edited by Godot on Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Estragon: I can't go on like this. | Vladimir: That's what you think. | ― Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

retire2022
Posts: 951
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:10 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by retire2022 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:00 pm

bennettg wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:32 am
I am trying to use the portfolio tracker on Morningstar to keep track of the investments in the DCP. One of the board members told me to use BSMKX to track the Russel 2500, BMOIX to track the US Debt and VIIIX to track the Equity Index 500.

I went to Morningstar and inputed these tickers along with the number of shares I own of the DCP (CIT) versions and the DCP price from closing on Friday. But Morningstar says the value of my portfolio is MUCH, MUCH higher than what DCP says it is with the CITs.

Does anyone know how to use Morningstar to get an accurate picture of the value of the holdings? I use it to track other investments (529, wife 401k, etc) and would like to do the same for DCP.

Thank you
bennettg

The only investment I have with the CIT is Blackrock Russell 2500, I have been holding this since they got rid of Vanguard Capital Opportunity VHCAX, I'm not pleased with index fund and own Vanguard Strategic Equity Fund (VSEQX) since 1998 in my Roth IRA. I may sell the Blackrock Russell 2500 and go with VSEQX. The VSEQX gives good dividends and does not fluctuate that much since it is a Quant fund, and beta 1.0.

I'd google the Blackrock Russell 2500 and found this symbol close to the CIT on NYSDCP: BRMIX

If you are ok tracking everyday with a spreadsheet here is a link to daily price changes, I don't do the spreadsheet because it is too much work.

https://www.nysdcp.com/iApp/rsc/netAssetValue.x

You could get close enough by divided the end of the day value with a similar fund value, but that is fuzzy math.

edit I've checked the NAV with your suggestion BSMKX, as of yesterday's close it is 11.80 per share, this is no better than my suggestion either, BRMIX. For this to really work it has to be the same NAV using another fund symbol and the number of shares one owns.

good luck
Last edited by retire2022 on Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

retire2022
Posts: 951
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:10 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by retire2022 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:08 pm

Godot wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:00 pm

I'd like to know this as well. I hate the opacity of CITs and stay away from them in NYSDCP, apart from the (only) bond CIT. So few choices in the plan, and so little transparency. I had to call to find out the ER of the Stable Value Fund, since it's not listed on the fact sheet or on the Fund Performance page (it's 0.35%.). This is what happens when an insurance company runs a 457.
Godot

I left TRowe Price Equity Income fund which I had for 20 years, 1993-2013 because Brian Rogers retired, I switched out to Vanguard Wellington, VWENX 18% of portfolio, because I needed Large Cap Value fund.

I also have a large position in Vanguard PrimeCap VPMAX 30.57%

My Black Rock Russell 2500 is 24.43% the later is an approx.

retire2022
Posts: 951
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:10 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by retire2022 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:11 pm

Trying2Save wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:52 am
Is anyone else surprised at how disappointing the funds are performing? Maybe it's just me and my AA, but in a time when the market continues to grow and hit all-time highs, my YTD gains aren't as high as I was expecting.
The CIT Blackrock funds are indexes which will not behave like active funds, using Morningstar Portfolio manager you can see my fund choices are more promising and I get dividends.

Don't forget if you are BH and believe in Passive, the Blackrock is invest and forget, but I am an active fund investor and can't wait. See my fund choice above.

retire2022
Posts: 951
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:10 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by retire2022 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:15 pm

TinpotInvestor wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:51 pm
I just got charged the semi-annual account fee for October. It was the semi-annual fixed fee of $10 plus a semi-annual asset based fee of $3.75 (around 0.0175% of account value). My account value is just above $20,000, so the asset based fee is NOT marginal, meaning semi-annual total fees are $10 at $20,000 and $13.5 at $20,000.01. At balances $200,000 and over, total semi-annual fee should be $45.
The more assets you have in the account the less it will cost you, when they sell appreciated assets, it will be less when you have a large account balance.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=262794#p4211395

Krow36 figured out how this work

The maximum fee per year would be the $20 annual fee plus the asset-based fee of 4.5 basis points on a $200,000 balance. 4.5 basis points is 0.045%, or 0.00045. 200k*0.00045 = $90. So the maximum fee is $90 + $20 = $110. This maximum fee is paid semi-annually at $55.

With a balance of 35k, the annual fees should be $20 plus 35k * 0.00045 = $15.75 for a total of $35.75. That would be about $17 paid semi-annually. Since you are contributing, the asset-based fee will change continually. Until your balance got to 20k, you were only charged the $20/yr participant fee. :D

retire2022
Posts: 951
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:10 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Changes to NYS Deferred Compensation Plan

Post by retire2022 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:32 pm

willie838 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:33 am
i truly miss seeing the dividends stack up from the assorted vanguard funds i was holding......

considering transitioning to making roth contributions to the 457b because the tax climate may never be better for it......

i have an outside roth ira but the idea of getting all the invested money and growth out without any tax burden in the future seems like a really beautiful deal. Up until now i've almost been hedging (well, at about a 3:1 pre tax contribution vs roth ira contribution)
I was asleep at the wheel in 2011 when the Roth Option was made available having a large Balance 1.125 million, it is projected that I will be at a higher tax bracket in 11 years at 70.5 hence I decided to throw in the towel and retire end of this year.

Just remember with Traditional 457 you are being taxed on your compounded interest returns, Uncle Sam gets a bit of your accumulated assets and Roth conversions will make this not really worth it. It is better to do Ed Slott way and cleaner to pay the tax one time and keep your earning at retirement. Don't talk about Charities, that is not what I'd worked my life for, not to be in poverty post employment.

Assuming you are younger than me (I'm 58) and have less assets, I strongly recommend anyone who is NYS Civil Servant go with Roth 457b not be pushed up to higher tax bracket at 70.5 and your pension will push you up over the Social Security IRMMA limits for Medicare part b at 65.

This may not be a big deal if you are holding 1500 hours of sick time at retirement, which you will need 15 years of accumulation to get to.

Post Reply