Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

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fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:49 am

I changed my 401k to this as suggested earlier.

As for your 401(k), I suggest the following three funds

Vanguard Total Bond Market Index I VBTIX 0.05%
Vanguard Institutional Index I VINIX 0.04%
Vanguard Total Intl Stock Index Admiral VTIAX 0.12%

Say 40% in VBTIX, 40% in VINIX and 20% in VTIAX.

fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:09 pm

Does anyone have a recommendation for a financial advisor in the chicagoland area? I am in NW suburb of Chicago.

I need better understand of this.

Based on what I have read about your financial situation, when you retire, you will be paying expenses mostly from your Social Security checks and not from withdrawals of your portfolio. As such, you will be paying no income taxes in retirement if you withdraw money from your 401(k). Therefore, a Roth IRA has a disadvantage to you because you pay taxes now to contribute to a Roth IRA. Therefore, instead of paying taxes now, just contribute to the 401(k) and pay no taxes on that contribution which also reduces your taxable income now and in the future. By paying less in taxes, you may even be able to adjust your budget to put more into the 401(k).

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by SGM » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:01 pm

fiverus wrote:
I was married for 25 years, divorced for 2 when my ex-husband passed away. I understand I will receive his social security benefit since we we're married for 25 yrs if I don't re-marry.
If you remarry after 60 years of age or age 50 if you are disabled it does not affect your ability to get a widow's benefit from your first husband's earnings.

You may benefit from Roth vs. traditional accounts if you are in a low bracket after age 70 1/2. If you have $100k in a tax deferred account some of your SS could be taxable with RMDs of over $3500 at age 70 1/2.

I would not be in such a hurry to get another financial advisor you could be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I counsel just continue to ask questions here.

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by livesoft » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:03 pm

fiverus wrote:So, is my understanding correct? Once I transfer both IRAs from EJ to Vanguard do not continue to contribute to either of those? Increase my percentage of contribution with 401k lets say from 6% to 9% or 10%.
Yes, I'm suggesting you look into that and understanding. But there are other possibilities, too.

But some quesstions to answer first:

How much must you contribute to your 401(k) to get absolute most company match?

Are you eligible to make deductible traditional IRA contributions?

What is your marginal income tax bracket now?
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fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:24 pm

Yes, I'm suggesting you look into that and understanding. But there are other possibilities, too. So, should I ask my accountant? How should I approach?

But some quesstions to answer first:

How much must you contribute to your 401(k) to get absolute most company match? 6%

Are you eligible to make deductible traditional IRA contributions? What do you mean? Who should I ask?

What is your marginal income tax bracket now? Where do I find this information?

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indexfundfan
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:28 pm

One thing you need to be aware is that EJ will charge an exit fee. I think it is quite a lot (~$75 per account??). I am sure someone here will know.

Maybe it makes sense to look into brokers who will reimburse this fee?
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ICMoney
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by ICMoney » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:48 pm

fiverus, I would suggest, as livesoft has, to just up your traditional 401k contributions above 6% after you have paid off your debts, and to move your IRAs which have a total combined balance of around $29k to Vanguard. (yes, you will probably have to pay EJ some account closure fees and incur other fees to do so)

Your total retirement account balances (401k+IRA) now are approaching 100K. Depending on how much more you contribute and how the market performs, your projected RMDs (required minimum distributions from your 401k/traditional IRA once you are 70 1/2 years old) seem likely to remain below the taxation threshold once you begin Social Security (see the Examples section of the Social Security Taxation wiki: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Taxatio ... y_benefits - your non-SS income would be these RMDs at 70 1/2, plus any other non-SS income if any). Using Vanguard's RMD estimator, it seems that your RMDs would keep you within the 0 taxation range based on the wiki Examples. Therefore, you could save on taxes by not contributing to your Roth IRA, and instead upping your traditional 401k contributions as you are able.

fiverus, what are your thoughts - does this sound right based on your knowledge of your finances?

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:18 pm

ICMoney, Yes this sounds right. To recap: I think once I make transfer from EJ to VG DO NOT CONTRIBUTE to IRA's, instead increase percentage say 9% or 10% to my 401k. I would like to up my traditional 401k contributions above 6% in the next month or so. Near future. I am working 2 jobs to pay off debt..so I would like to increase 401k contributions ASAP, it's doable because right now I contribute to my IRA's at EJ 1 a month if I eliminate each month my contributions once transferred to VG that allows me to increase above 6% to my 401k.

How does this sound?

fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:21 pm

livesoft, 6% to companies 5%, I think marginal income tax bracket is 25%.

What does 'Are you eligible to make deductible traditional IRA contributions' mean?

fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:25 pm

I will try to find out how EJ charges for exit fee. I think its the same for everyone. Maybe they post on their website or I can call their 800 number.

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indexfundfan
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:48 pm

fiverus wrote:I will try to find out how EJ charges for exit fee. I think its the same for everyone. Maybe they post on their website or I can call their 800 number.
Someone posted this 3 years ago

viewtopic.php?t=119118

It is $95 per account. Since you have two, it will be $190.

Also, what funds do you have in the two IRAs? There might be a fee to sell those funds at Vanguard (clarify this with Vanguard). If so, it might make sense to sell them at EJ if there is no fee.
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:58 pm

fiverus wrote: What does 'Are you eligible to make deductible traditional IRA contributions' mean?
See this for tax year 2016
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/pl ... an-at-work

And for tax year 2017
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/20 ... an-at-work
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indexfundfan
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:17 pm

One more idea is the following:

a) Ask Fidelity if they will reimburse the exit fees from EJ. You have about $29k in total in the two accounts.

b) If yes, you can consider moving the IRAs to Fidelity and use Fidelity's "target retirement" fund. For example, Fidelity Freedom® Index 2025 Fund FQIFX is very similar to the Vanguard one. Expense ratio is 0.15% and it is also about 65% equity.

The equity allocation for the two funds are roughly the same. The difference is in the fixed income allocation. Vanguard's fund has an allocation to international bonds, whereas the Fidelity fund has an allocation to a government money market fund. It's not a sure bet which will be better.
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ICMoney
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by ICMoney » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:18 pm

ICMoney, Yes this sounds right. To recap: I think once I make transfer from EJ to VG DO NOT CONTRIBUTE to IRA's, instead increase percentage say 9% or 10% to my 401k. I would like to up my traditional 401k contributions above 6% in the next month or so. Near future. I am working 2 jobs to pay off debt..so I would like to increase 401k contributions ASAP, it's doable because right now I contribute to my IRA's at EJ 1 a month if I eliminate each month my contributions once transferred to VG that allows me to increase above 6% to my 401k.

How does this sound?
Mortgage 4.375% 30 year. Loan was established 6 1/2 yr ago
credit card 14.40% APR owe 9k
car loan 5% 72 months. this is new as of January
fiverus, I would suggest aggressively paying down your credit card and car loan debts listed above before increasing your 401k contributions above 6%. The following wiki article may be helpful to support why you want to pay down your debt prior to investing more beyond what you need to get the 401k match from your employer: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Priorit ... nvestments

You can still move your IRAs to Vanguard, or Fidelity, whenever you are ready (you may need to have EJ sell off investments and transfer the IRAs in cash - talk to VG/Fido to see what they will need you to do and if you might incur any fees from selling after the IRA funds arrive at VG/Fido). Also, note the good suggestion from indexfundfan's post above to see if they might pay the account closing fees when transferring from EJ.

Once you're out of credit car/car loan debt, then increase your 401k contributions. The reason for this (also stated in the wiki article) is that you're unlikely to outperform in your 401k/IRA investments the interest rates you're paying on these two loans.

Best,
ICM

fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:55 pm

You guys are amazing!! Thanks for your support and making my day. :happy

Yes, I agree paying off debt. I will call fidelity and clarify if the reimburse exit fee from EJ. Also I will look into what funds I have with those 2 accounts at EJ and clarify with VG if there is a fee to sell them. I will post them as well. Let's see what VG says first. or Fidelity. I will talk with both.

So if I'm aggressively paying off debt and let's say I've transferred accounts to VG or Fidelity so do I continue to contribute to those accounts? or not? If I don't contribute anything to those accounts then of course the accounts don't grow. It that right?

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by Katietsu » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:22 pm

To summarize the steps most of the posters have recommended:
1) Move IRA accounts to Fidelity or Vanguard. Use a low fee target retirement index fund with a retirement year of 2025.
2) Keep 401k contribution the same.
3) Pay off debt.
4) Only after debt has been paid should you increase your retirement savings.

Your IRA accounts may still grow from interest, dividends and investment gains. But more importantly, you will be paying less in interest on your debt by getting it paid off sooner. Once you have no debt payments, you will be able to save faster.

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:39 pm

In terms of how to use your income :

1) Contribute the minimum to get full 401(k) matching. Do not contribution to IRAs.
2) Use the remainder to aggressively pay down the 14.4% credit card balance.

Once 2) is done, you can decide whether to increase the 401(k) contribution or aggressively pay down the 5% car loan or do a combination of both.
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fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:59 am

Great advice- I'm working on it. Transfer to VG or Fidelity. Do not contribute to IRA's. Aggressively pay down credit card. Once paid off aggressively pay down car loan and increase contribution to 401k

Here are my funds at EJ. I should ask VG or Fidelity if there are any fees for selling these funds. right?

EJ accounts:
Trad IRA
DODGE COX INCM (DODIX
HARTFRD BAL IN I (HBLIX
JOHN HNCK BND I (JHBIX
MFS INT NW DIS I (MWNIX
PRICE ROWE US (PRTXX
VCT SYC EST CL I (VEVIX
VCT SYC SCO CL I (VSOIX

Roth IRA
AMER MUTUL F2 SH (AMRFX
DODGE COX STK (DODGX
HARTFRD BAL IN I (HBLIX
JOHN HNCK BND I (JHBIX
MFS INT NW DIS I (MWNIX)
OPHMR DEV MRK I (ODVIX
PRICE ROWE US (PRTXX

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:12 am

fiverus wrote: Here are my funds at EJ. I should ask VG or Fidelity if there are any fees for selling these funds. right?
Yes.

Looking at your list, I'm pretty sure at least of these funds have transactions fees to sell at Vanguard, unless you get a fee waiver in writing from Vanguard in advance.

Fidelity generally lets you sell most funds without fees. But some of the funds are not carried by Fidelity. So you will still have to sell those at EJ.

Do you know if there is a fee to sell funds at EJ?
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fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:42 pm

Indexfundfan, I check with Fidelity earlier today, They do pay for the transfer.

Fidelity said I will have to sell these and have cash go into money market, Will VG be the same? please advise.

Trad IRA
VCT SYC EST CL I (VEVIX
VCT SYC SCO CL I (VSOIX

Roth IRA
AMER MUTUL F2 SH (AMRFX
MFS INT NW DIS I (MWNIX)
OPHMR DEV MRK I (ODVIX

Vanguard was not available today, for some reason I lean and like Vanguard better. I don't know why. What is your opinion?

Also, doing my taxes next Saturday 2/4. After that I will start the process of transfer. Not sure VG or Fidelity.
When I contact EJ to sell, I am told to say I need the cash for personal reasons and not explain why. Once I sell those funds I will decide who I will go with then start the process

Let me know your idea/opinion

Thank you!

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:08 pm

Its great that Fidelity will pay for the transfer. Personally I also believe Vanguard is more "ethical" but many will tell you that Fidelity's customer service is much better. One example: Fidelity has 24/7 phone line while Vanguard only offers the typical regular business hours. Fidelity also has brick and mortar branches in many cities, in case you need to visit them face-to-face. I have no reservations using Fidelity.

You can research whether a fund can be moved to Vanguard and if there is a fee to sell from the link below

https://investor.vanguard.com/other-funds/

Look for "FundAccess® Transaction Fee" under the "Fees & Minimum" tab. I think there is a fee ($35) to sell most of the funds at Vanguard. And that will be a lot of money given the number of funds you have. You can ask Vanguard if they can waive these fees.
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fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:46 am

As I prepare for the transfer, what if any communications should I have with Edward Jones? I know I need to let EJ know which funds I would like to sell but do I need to explain why? or let VG/Fidelity handle the transfer and don't say anything to EJ.

I seem to be leaning towards VG, I know some fees will be involved, but maybe I can ask VG if they can waive some fees, try to get it in writing.

Regardless of who I go with VG or Fidelity there is some fees involved once the funds arrive either at VG or Fidelity. So, I think doesn't really matter who I choose I will have to pay fees regardless.

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by StevieG72 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:48 am

mhalley wrote:If you really want to pay an advisor, the you could do vanguard pas for .3%.
Other options would include fidelity go or schwab intelligent portfolio.

https://investor.vanguard.com/financial ... mpgn=PS:PA

https://dpcs.fidelity.com/prgw/dpcs/dma ... &gclsrc=ds


https://intelligent.schwab.com/public/i ... placement=
+1
Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to others.

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:56 am

I think have VG do the transfer once I fill out the form. I know there are transfer fees involved. I don't pay an advisor is required. right?

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:19 pm

fiverus wrote:As I prepare for the transfer, what if any communications should I have with Edward Jones? I know I need to let EJ know which funds I would like to sell but do I need to explain why? or let VG/Fidelity handle the transfer and don't say anything to EJ.

I seem to be leaning towards VG, I know some fees will be involved, but maybe I can ask VG if they can waive some fees, try to get it in writing.

Regardless of who I go with VG or Fidelity there is some fees involved once the funds arrive either at VG or Fidelity. So, I think doesn't really matter who I choose I will have to pay fees regardless.
I would say tell EJ as little as possible. Just liquidate the desired funds. Also, if you have given trading authorization to EJ, revoke it so that they don't do something funny when you start the transfer at either Fidelity or VG.

If you correctly liquidated the non-supported funds, there would not be any additional fees at Fidelity.

As for VG, most likely there will be fees to sell the funds. You need to verify this or get it waived if possible.
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by radiowave » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:18 pm

I agree with indexfundfan, revoke any trading authorization before you start to liquidate or transfer funds. Re Vanguard vs. Fidelity, both are excellent, VG will not pay any account closure fees and will charge for liquidation of EJ funds if you transfer in kind. Fidelity will pay for account closure fees and will not charge any fees for liquidating EJ funds. So if you are going with VG, liquidate on EJ side, consolidate all of your accounts as possible, then transfer cash to VG. If I remember correctly, I was charged $50 for an inherited IRA from my dad a couple years ago and $135 to close a taxable account. If you want to explore opening an account at Fidelity, there may be a local office near you and you can meet an account rep or whatever they are called at Fidelity. Just don't let them sell you an actively managed fund.
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:56 pm

How to I check if I have given trading authorization to EJ? And how do I revoke it?

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:02 pm

fiverus wrote:How to I check if I have given trading authorization to EJ? And how do I revoke it?
Do you have a contact person at EJ? How are the mutual funds in the account purchased?

Do you call EJ to place a trade? Do you have prior knowledge of every trade being placed? If not, you probably have given consent to EJ to place trades on your behalf (on one of the many forms you have signed).
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:03 pm

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fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:34 pm

I know EJ has trading authorization with me. I don't call him to trade. Money is taken out each month from my checking account then EJ purchases every 3 months.

Summary:
Cancel contributions to EJ
Call VG and check with them which funds they can sell with no fee, if some funds have fees, call EJ and let them know to turn those into cash in my month market.
Call EJ and let them know to stop trading authorization

It seems kind of hard to not let EJ know what Im doing. If EJ asks questions, I will let them know 'for personal reasons' I guess.


Fidelity I mentioned in previous post clarified which funds have fees, If I go with Fidelity inform EJ to turn those into cash money market account.

fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:31 am

indexfunfan, I spoke with VG, the rep assured me there is no transfer fee from EJ to VG. She said to sell 'all funds' to cash at EJ then initiate the transfer.

In the meantime, set up account with VG, initiate transfer, indicate to put the funds into Target Retirement 2025. Once transfer is complete I will get notified by mail the funds have arrived. C

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:57 am

fiverus wrote:indexfunfan, I spoke with VG, the rep assured me there is no transfer fee from EJ to VG. She said to sell 'all funds' to cash at EJ then initiate the transfer.

In the meantime, set up account with VG, initiate transfer, indicate to put the funds into Target Retirement 2025. Once transfer is complete I will get notified by mail the funds have arrived. C
Fiverus, I am afraid the rep has given you incorrect information. The rep is probably saying that VG does not charge a fee for the transfer. But she is not EJ, so how does she know that EJ does not charge a account termination fee. I just searched and this fee is $95 :

https://www.edwardjones.com/images/ira- ... f-fees.pdf

You have two accounts to transfer out, so EJ will charge you $190. As you already checked, Fidelity would reimburse you the $190, but it is the practice of VG not to offer account bonuses or fee reimbursements.
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:05 am

Understood. So, Fidelity or VG? both excellent

Fidelity 'Target Retirement- Fidelty Freedom index 2025 FQIFX
or
Vangaurd 'Target Retirement 2025is their a symbol?

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:42 am

fiverus wrote:Understood. So, Fidelity or VG? both excellent

Fidelity 'Target Retirement- Fidelty Freedom index 2025 FQIFX
or
Vangaurd 'Target Retirement 2025is their a symbol?
VG's fund is VTTVX. Both funds are low-cost and use passive component funds. They are both good choices.

And since the accounts are IRAs, there is no tax consequences should you decide to switch later.
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fiverus
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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by fiverus » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:00 am

I just wanted to say thank you for your helpful advice, I do feel uplifted by what you (and others) have said so thanks for the always real and positive feed back. Your daily inquiries let me know and guided me to make the right decision to exit from EJ. Let's say in 1-2 weeks I will start transfer process to either VG or Fidelity. Thanks to you all.

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Re: Edward Jones [Looking for alternatives]

Post by indexfundfan » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:29 pm

Thank you for your kind words. Be sure to come back if you have more questions!
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