mrc wrote:pennstater2005 wrote:
Right. But, it's a little confusing the first time using the form. The verbiage made it seem like you may need to.
My sentiments exactly the space implies the MSG is required.
If you say so, but it seems pretty clear to me. My first couple of IRA transfers were to Vanguard using their form, and I just followed the instructions. On the second page, under section "The transfer process at a glance":
Sign and date in Section 7, and obtain a Medallion signature guarantee if required by the financial institution currently holding your assets.
Then in the signature section, to the left of the signature space:
If your current
financial institution
requires a Medallion
signature guarantee,
DO NOT sign this
form until you’re in
the presence of an
authorized officer
Then above the signature guarantee space:
Medallion signature guarantee if required
Yes, "if required" is in a smaller font, but I don't see how you'd miss it.
So there are three places in the document where "if required" is mentioned, and two where it clarifies that it's your current financial institution (the financial institution currently holding your assets) that determines whether or not it's required. So simply reading the document carefully should make it clear that it's not Vanguard who requires the signature guarantee (answering the question in the post title).
You do have to read these forms carefully, and sometimes it is confusing exactly what you need to fill in for some items, so if in doubt, I just pick up the phone and call to ask for clarification.
I will note that most IRA transfer forms I've used are a single page, while Vanguard's "IRA Transfer Kit" is 42 pages, and the form itself is 9 pages (not including the mailing instruction page).
Also, most IRA transfer forms I've used don't have a specific section for the signature guarantee, but often do mention to check with your current financial institution to see if it's required. This is what led to some difficulties on my last transfer. The receiving custodian's form did not have a designated space for the signature guarantee, and my local credit union would not do a signature guarantee without a designated space for it. While sitting with the signer at my CU, I called the receiving custodian to see if they could provide a form with a designated space for the signature guarantee, and they could not. So I finally called Ally, the current custodian who had previously required a signature guarantee, and that's when the Ally rep told me they no longer required it.
I had previously obtained signature guarantees from a local Fidelity office on the same or similar transfer form, and they just squeezed in the stamp and signature anywhere it would fit. However, when I went to a different local Fidelity office for this last transfer, they would not do it for non-Fidelity forms. Incidentally, that pissed me off, so I moved most of the rest of my IRA assets at Fidelity to a credit union to get a 5-year CD paying 2.7% (a good thing anyway).
It's not like these transfers are rare: I wish there were some sort of universal form, like a HUD-1 for closing real estate, for conducting a custodian transfer.
Agreed. Unlike the Vanguard form, the forms used by most banks and credit unions are very similar (one page), and sometimes even identical, and interestingly, almost never if at all have a designated space for a signature guarantee (at least the many I've used). There's usually not even enough space at the bottom for the signature guarantee, so it has to be squeezed in sideways where there's a little blank space on the right side of the form.
I found it very ironic that my credit union that would not do a SG without a designated space did not have a designated space for one on their own transfer form! Before I found at Ally no longer required it, I was considering doing an intermediate transfer to my credit union, and so asked her, "OK, so if I do a transfer here using your form, how are you going to provide a signature guarantee since there's no designated space for it?" That stumped her for awhile, and then she found some language on the form that she said would satisfy their auditor.
So a standard form with a designated section for a signature guarantee would be useful, although again, requiring a signature guarantee is very rare in my experience (now non-existent with Ally's policy change).
Kevin
