Please help me [Transfer IRA]

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Topic Author
Deb19
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Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by Deb19 »

I am trying to move a traditional IRA from a high fee brokerage account to doing it on my own through ameritrade or something similar..... It contains 1 stock and 2 mutual funds. I have read things about ameritrade, etc. that scare me. A Mass. Mutual rep wants me to move it to a morningstar managed account. Please help as I am ready to do this just because I have been working on this for 2 weeks and just keep going around in circles. I have explored so many options I can't find my way out. I am fairly knowledgeable and currently do most investing on my own with success.....however I am stuck on this.....and feeling panic-stricken. I would appreciate any help you could give me.
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Pranav
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Re: Please help me

Post by Pranav »

You can call Vanguard at (855) 327-1214 during the weekdays from 8am to 10pm ET and they will guide you on how to transfer your account to them.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki
livesoft
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Re: Please help me

Post by livesoft »

I have several accounts at TDAmeritrade and at Vanguard. Nothing about them scares me. Either one would be a fine choice for moving your assets to them.

Other than to tell you to not talk the Mass Mutual folks ever again, I don't know how to help you.
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Deb19
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Re: Please help me

Post by Deb19 »

Thank you for your quick response. Are there any negatives to have Vanguard house this? I guess I just don't typically think of them handling these outside funds/stocks/accounts?
livesoft
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Re: Please help me

Post by livesoft »

What are the ticker symbols? Why would you want to keep these two mutual funds anyways? Why not just sell everything at the place they are now and just move cash?
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dbr
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Re: Please help me

Post by dbr »

There are many brokers that could be quite satisfactory. Aside from TDA people are often quite happy with Fidelity or Schwab among others. Those of us who were once in the military may have long run relationships with USAA, and I think they are a perfectly reasonable broker. I know of no solid reasons to suggest Vanguard should be avoided as a brokerage, though there are complaints to be found on this forum regarding customer service.

The thing to avoid is getting talked into an advisory account that costs you money for someone at the broker to "manage" your investments. Even Vanguard can make that ploy with their PAS service at 0.3% of assets.
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blueblock
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Re: Please help me

Post by blueblock »

I was a longtime TD Ameritrade customer, then a little over a year ago I moved to Vanguard because [reasons]. I think both are good, and I have zero complaints on either score.

What on earth "scares" you about them?
Last edited by blueblock on Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BL
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Re: Please help me

Post by BL »

We like Vanguard because they are low-ER and don't have a conflict of interest if you ask for advice.
I started out by buying one fund, then moved my retirement account to an IRA.

Salespersons scare me; I will stick to Vanguard, although other low-cost brokerages are fine if you don't listen to them.

Here is a great little booklet for beginners you might like:
https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
aristotelian
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Re: Please help me

Post by aristotelian »

Deb19 wrote:Thank you for your quick response. Are there any negatives to have Vanguard house this? I guess I just don't typically think of them handling these outside funds/stocks/accounts?
No negatives at all. Vanguard has "brokerage" accounts that let you buy and sell stocks and exchange traded funds from other companies. You can also purchase Vanguard funds with no extra fees.

You sound very confused and frustrated. That is not a good place to be when you are making investment decisions. Please do not let any professionals sell you on something you are not comfortable with. You can do this yourself and save yourself a lot of money. If you post more details on your situation, people on this board will help.
kenner
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Re: Please help me

Post by kenner »

Deb19,

If you take the time to post your financial details in this format:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212

you will receive investment advice that will enhance your financial life for decades to come.
Topic Author
Deb19
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Re: Please help me

Post by Deb19 »

First...thank you so much for your input.
Selling all and moving to cash is an option I had not truly considered because I had found the stock (Disney) and one fund (AMCPX)still acceptable.....my goal was to get rid of the $40.00 yearly maintenance fee and a mutual fund that has changed its direction for the negative (I don't like it anymore) (FPPFX)

Stuff I read on ameritrade.... diificulties getting money out..poor customer service.....selling on margin when not requested...etc (google it to see more)

I am overwhelmed, true. I usually do ok with striking a balance between being a teacher, parent etc. but investing and learning about it can take a significant amount of time. I just don't want to make a mistake and perhaps lack enough confidence yet in doing this all independently. I currently have Vanguard total, international and a couple of others. Does it make sense to you say use Vanguard Total, International, and bond funds if I currently hold them in my roths? I feel like that is too much exposure in too few of repeated funds.
Thanks again.
aristotelian
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Re: Please help me

Post by aristotelian »

Deb19 wrote:First...thank you so much for your input.
Selling all and moving to cash is an option I had not truly considered because I had found the stock (Disney) and one fund (AMCPX)still acceptable.....my goal was to get rid of the $40.00 yearly maintenance fee and a mutual fund that has changed its direction for the negative (I don't like it anymore) (FPPFX)

Stuff I read on ameritrade.... diificulties getting money out..poor customer service.....selling on margin when not requested...etc (google it to see more)

I am overwhelmed, true. I usually do ok with striking a balance between being a teacher, parent etc. but investing and learning about it can take a significant amount of time. I just don't want to make a mistake and perhaps lack enough confidence yet in doing this all independently. I currently have Vanguard total, international and a couple of others. Does it make sense to you say use Vanguard Total, International, and bond funds if I currently hold them in my roths? I feel like that is too much exposure in too few of repeated funds.
Thanks again.
You should be able to transfer the Traditional IRA to another broker without selling anything. Give Vanguard a call and they should be able to walk you through this. Since there are no tax consequences, you would then be free to invest in whatever stocks or funds you want.

As far as your Roth IRA, Vanguard Total, International, and Aggregate Bond are absolutely appropriate. Keep in mind that they invest in a broad spectrum of stocks within each fund. For example, VTI contains over 3,500 individual stocks across a broad spectrum of different types of companies. If you invested in a specialized fund along with VTI, say a tech index or all small cap, you would ironically be concentrating your portfolio, not diversifying. You certainly can't go wrong investing in those three, and many on this board advocate investing only in those three.
Topic Author
Deb19
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by Deb19 »

Thank you.
Topic Author
Deb19
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by Deb19 »

Vanguard Wellington?? I actually have my current Roth in this...
brad.clarkston
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Re: Please help me

Post by brad.clarkston »

Deb19 wrote: Stuff I read on ameritrade.... diificulties getting money out..poor customer service.....selling on margin when not requested...etc (google it to see more)
Getting your money out shouldn't be that hard. Open a rollover IRA with ether Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab fill out the paper work (almost always done online at Fidelity, not always so at VG, don't know about Schwab) and they will do the transfer for you.

The nice thing about Fidelity is if there is paperwork they will have a local office somewhere around you to help you out.
kenner
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by kenner »

Deb19 wrote:Vanguard Wellington?? I actually have my current Roth in this...
Wellington has been a very good investment for decades.

But without an analysis of your total investment portfolio of stocks and bonds (including total costs), it is extremely difficult to determine an appropriate asset allocation.

Frankly, your investment portfolio seems less than ideal.

But maybe that is not what you want to hear.

The collective wisdom on this forum is vast. But it can only be maximized by appropriate input of all relevant information.

Your choice. Your future.
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BL
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Re: Please help me

Post by BL »

Deb19 wrote: Does it make sense to you say use Vanguard Total, International, and bond funds if I currently hold them in my roths? I feel like that is too much exposure in too few of repeated funds.
Thanks again.
I believe the longest thread on Bogleheads, started by Taylor Larimore who is one of the experts who wrote the book, Boglehead's Guide to Investing, may be on the three-fund Portfolio:
viewtopic.php?t=88005

The Wiki here has a page dedicated to the three-fund portfolio:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio

Did you read the If You Can pdf I linked to earlier? That also suggests the 3-funds.

Yes, using Total US stock market, total international stock market, and a total bond market fund, or close facsimiles, will get you a portfolio that is diversified, simple, and low-cost (low expense rate). If desired, Target date funds, Life Strategy funds, or Balanced fund (no international) will also get you there even more simply. I am thinking of Vanguard, but others places have similar index funds or ETFs. Just watch out for high ER costs, and advisor costs. Vanguard has a 0.3% annual fee for an advisor who will put you into a handful of low-cost funds, so that is a good choice if you don't want to do it yourself, assuming you have at least 50,000 to manage. The cost is still lower than the funds an advisor would usually put you in.

So if the experts here believe this is the best, or at least one of the best, and a great way to invest, how can the rest of us inexperienced investors come up with something better?

It is human nature to want to tinker with a perfectly good plan, and also to listen to "experts" who really don't know any more and may even have ulterior motives for recommending something else which may or may not be good for us.

Now all you need to do is figure out what % of bonds you want! That is called Asset Allocation (AA).
dbr
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Re: Please help me

Post by dbr »

Deb19 wrote: Does it make sense to you say use Vanguard Total, International, and bond funds if I currently hold them in my roths? I feel like that is too much exposure in too few of repeated funds.
Thanks again.
Exposure is not to funds, at least not to funds like those that invest in a broad diversity of the total markets. Exposure is to asset classes such as US stocks, international stocks, and bonds. That exposure should be counted up across all your holdings. Which accounts hold which funds is a tax issue. There is nothing wrong with holding the same funds in different accounts except small matters of tax efficiency.

There is a Wiki article on tax consequences of how funds are placed: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Tax-eff ... _placement
Topic Author
Deb19
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by Deb19 »

Thank you all. I will be posting all my info soon and thanks in advance for your help and guidance. This site and your responses gives me the boost I need. Is this thread where I should post it? Or where it links and asks for this info on homepage? Thank you again
kenner
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by kenner »

Deb19 wrote:Thank you all. I will be posting all my info soon and thanks in advance for your help and guidance. This site and your responses gives me the boost I need. Is this thread where I should post it? Or where it links and asks for this info on homepage? Thank you again
Hi Deb19,

I'm not sure if there is an established rule for where to post additional information, but I believe that posting here (in this thread) is certainly acceptable.

You have our attention - and our best wishes.

Welcome aboard.
bondsr4me
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by bondsr4me »

All you have to do is go to Vanguard.com.

Open an IRA account, complete the Transfer Account information, and VG does the rest.

If you have "propriety" holdings, i.e. funds that are unique to your current custodian, call VG and ask if they can transfer/accept them. If VG accepts them, fine. If VG can't, then sell them at your current broker and transfer the cash to VG.

If you call VG, they will be very happy to help you and answer all your questions.

Good Luck to you.

Don
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Deb19
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by Deb19 »

Thanks so much.
Also....one reason I have lagged in getting this done is because I was angry that E.J. would charge me 135 bucks to close it. That is infuriating to me and at the time, all holdings were doing well/ok. It will take me over 3 years to recoop my $135 in annual fees I will be saving from no longer having to pay their annual maintenance fees. Still makes me ill.....but even with this fee, it still makes more sense in the long run....correct?

Finally,
One more question....cost basis concerns?? By transferring this IRA say to Vanguard.... do I need to be worried about my cost basis, especially since one is a stock? I am planning on at the very least selling one fund to buy a Vanguard fund. I know at E.J they may have helped keep track of this sort of thing. Is this on me now? If so....how do I do this. Thank you.
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BL
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by BL »

Deb19 wrote:
Finally,
One more question....cost basis concerns?? By transferring this IRA say to Vanguard.... do I need to be worried about my cost basis, especially since one is a stock? I am planning on at the very least selling one fund to buy a Vanguard fund. I know at E.J they may have helped keep track of this sort of thing. Is this on me now? If so....how do I do this. Thank you.
Have you looked at statements or other places on your EJ account website for cost basis or unrealized gains?
I would copy it and keep it because it may no longer be there after you close the account. EJ might or might not transfer any info from before 2012, if you have any that old. They ought to at least for the newer purchases, but better to look out for yourself here.
kenner
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by kenner »

Deb19 wrote:Thanks so much.
Also....one reason I have lagged in getting this done is because I was angry that E.J. would charge me 135 bucks to close it. That is infuriating to me and at the time, all holdings were doing well/ok. It will take me over 3 years to recoop my $135 in annual fees I will be saving from no longer having to pay their annual maintenance fees. Still makes me ill.....but even with this fee, it still makes more sense in the long run....correct?
Yes, you are correct. The fees EJ charged you in the past are what accountants might call a "sunk cost" - gone forever. The key to future investment success is learning from past mistakes and not repeating those mistakes.

You are now on the right path.
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Deb19
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by Deb19 »

Thank you. Also...I will post my info soon....don't think this is not of the utmost importance (and stress-inducing) but currently helping my senior on scholarships and my twelve year old on his science project..... Ugh!!! Don't give up on me.
kenner
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by kenner »

Family is always the priority.

Well be here to help any time we can.
krow36
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by krow36 »

You do not need to worry about the cost basis of an IRA. Cost basis is something that concerns taxable accounts when you sell something. You can sell and buy anything inside an IRA or 403b without any income tax consequences. When you finally take a distribution from these tax deferred accounts, you will add the amount to your taxable income.

Did you see my post in answer to your question about figuring out short-term cap gains?

edit: another senior moment :oops:
Last edited by krow36 on Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
Deb19
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by Deb19 »

Krow....I did not??
krow36
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by krow36 »

It’s at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155404
TIP: If you go to Quick Links at the top of the forum page and choose Your Posts, you will see all the threads you have posted on. Ones with a post you haven’t looked at yet are red. It’s very handy! Otherwise threads get buried after a day or so.
Topic Author
Deb19
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by Deb19 »

Thank you.
Here is my overview:
Emergency Fund + Bank Money (over 6 months of expenses saved) 16%
No debt
Married filing jointly, 25% tax rate, OH 2 children; me 46, husband 50
Desired Asset 40% stocks, 40% bonds 20% international
Note: I use my bank money in place of or with bond money percentages
Mid six figures

Taxable 22%
5 stocks
Mutual Funds:
1. American Capital World Growth and Income CWGIX .77 exp ratio
2. American Income Fund of America AMECX .56 exp
3. Vanguard 500 VFIAX
4. Vanguard tips VIPSX
5. Vanguard Total Stock VTSAX
6. Vanguard Total International VTIAX
7. Oppenheimer Rochester Limited Term Muni Fund OPITX .67 exp

Tax Advantaged
1. ***Traditional IRA wanting to move from Edward Jones (original posted question) 4%
Disney Stock DIS
American AMCAP AMCPX .67 exp
FPA US value fund .97 exp (For sure moving this to a Vanguard fund)

2. Roths total 24%
me Roths
American Mutual Fund AMRMX .59 exp ratio
Vanguard All World except US VFWAX
Vanguard Lifestrategy VASGX
Vanguard Strategic Equity VSEQX
current: Vanguard Wellington admiral VWENX

3. husband Roths
American Capital Income Builder CAIBX .60
American Fundamental Investors ANCFX .60
American Growth Fund of America AGTHX .66
American Income Fund of America AMECX .56
Current: Vanguard Total Stock Market admiral VTSAX


4. Old 403b and current 457 4%
American Capital Income Builder CAIBX .60
American Capital World Growth & Income CWGIX .77
American Fidelity fixed annuity 3% interest rate

5. Husband contributes 20% into his 401K SRJIX (15% traditional, 5% Roth) 28%
6. I contribute 13,000 to my Ohio DC 457 fund Lifepath 2035 (percentage in with 403bs above)
7. Columbus life annuity - nonqualified 2%

Thank you in advance for your help and guidance. Please also address my husbands traditional IRA = soon moving it all to Vanguard. Possibly keep the Disney stock....but what Vanguard fund in light of are other holdings? Thanks again, Deb
kenner
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by kenner »

NFL playoff Sundays are typically a bit slow on responses. Your investment portfolio is a lot better than some we see.

Your portfolio has a lot going on. Hopefully, you will receive helpful input soon.
krow36
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by krow36 »

I’ve tried to condense your information a bit. Can we assume that the IRAs will all be moved to Vanguard? Funds with an ER of 0.6% or more, you should exchange out of if possible.
Taxable, 22%
5 stocks
6 MF’s, including TSM and TISM
Tax-sheltered
their tIRAs, moving to Vanguard, 4%
-------his tIRA, 1 stock and 2 MFs?
-------her tIRA, 1 stock and 2 MFs?
her Roth IRA, both Roth IRAs = 24%
his Roth IRA
-------5 MF including TSM
her accounts, both accounts = 4%
-------her old 403b
-------(her current 457)
his 401k, 28%
-------SRJIX, JPMorgan SmartRetirement 2035 Insti, ER 0.66%
her 457, OH DCP, Lifepath 2035, ER 0.20%
Columbia life annuity, 2%

There’s more information needed in order to give you much help with selection. Can you split the accounts up instead of combining tIRAs and Roth IRAs? That “I” in IRA stands for “Individual” and they really shouldn’t be lumped together. Likewise please list her old 403b and her current 457 separately. All the account percents should add up to 100%.

What is her old 403b invested in? It probably makes sense to roll it into her tIRA. What are the other funds available in his 401k? SRJIX is fairly expensive but maybe that’s the least expensive choice? Are you paying in to the annuity?

You can use the edit pencil to make changes. It’s best to keep everything in one place if possible.
aristotelian
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by aristotelian »

I am confused what you mean when you have a list of funds for an account and then say "Current: ..."

Are you saying you are currently in X but you have the choice of investing in the list?

To start with, I would roll that old 403b into your Traditional IRA when it is set up.
krow36
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by krow36 »

I'm guessing that "current" indicates what is being added now, and the other funds were bought in the past?
kenner
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by kenner »

Deb,

Based on the information you have posted, I believe that your - and your family's - future financial well-being will be best served if you enlist the services of Vanguard's Personal Advisor Service (VPAS).

VPAS experts (Certified Financial Planners, the top of the heap) will consider all aspects of your current financial situation and construct a long-term investment portfolio for you that will serve you well for many years to come. And when you feel you can manage your investments on your own, you can end the 0.30% annual charge from this service.

To add some perspective, consider that American Funds may have instantaneously cost you 5.75% to invest in their funds. That front-end charge may equate to an entire year of lost investment income for your family. In fact. American Fund's website reveals that their front-end load can cause their investment funds to fall behind market returns for a decade or longer.
Mij
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by Mij »

While I do like VANGUARD, they do not have good service. When I transferred funds in to VGD they 'lost' over $1M. Yes I finally got it back but VANGUARD had no idea where it was until I made several complaints. I am now in the process of making a transfer again and after 10 days VGD has taken no action. While I believe in their funds I don't recommend them for service.
kenner
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by kenner »

Mij wrote:While I do like VANGUARD, they do not have good service. When I transferred funds in to VGD they 'lost' over $1M. Yes I finally got it back but VANGUARD had no idea where it was until I made several complaints. I am now in the process of making a transfer again and after 10 days VGD has taken no action. While I believe in their funds I don't recommend them for service.
Mij, are you criticizing VPAS specifically?

Or are you lamenting the growing pains that are being experienced by the world's most successful investment firm (Vanguard)?

There is a difference.

If you have enlisted the guidance of VPAS, I doubt you would have any reason to complain.
krow36
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by krow36 »

mistaken post
Topic Author
Deb19
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Re: Please help me [Transfer IRA]

Post by Deb19 »

Yes, Kenner....lol np on the football.... My bad

Yes, Krow on what current means. That is what we currently invest in now.

Any fund recommendation for hubbies traditional IRA for a vanguard fund we are lacking or should add to? Moving this IRA is my first priority.

Thank you all.
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