My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

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rhodnius
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My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by rhodnius » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:44 am

Hello,

I have a colleague who is boasting about his investment picks. He even shared to me what investments he has. Can anyone comment on his selections? I will copy and paste what he sent to me below:
-------------------------------------------------------------

My ETF LIST for 2017


Following is the list of my favorite ETFs.

Almost all of them are heavily traded, and have high market caps.

Leveraged are the 3X ETFs, they go 3 times as much up, or 3 times down….!!!!

BROAD MARKET/Dividends

S&P 500 SPY 2.00 The biggest ETF there is

S&P 500 3X SPXL - Short term play

Nasdaq 100 QQQ 1.00 The single best ETF

Nasdaq 100 3X TQQQ - Short term play

Dow Jones DIA 2.25 Boring

Total Stock Market VTI 2.30 A good choice for dummies

Small Cap IWM 1.72 Returns better than large cap

Dividend Select DVY 3.82 Juicy dividend

Intl Dividend select IDV 4.50 Juicy dividend


SECTOR

Financials VFH 2.23 Can’t go wrong with this

Financials 3X FAS - Short term play

Energy XLE 3.00 Stable long term oil play

Oil Futures 2X UCO - Risky

Natural Gas 3X UGAZ - Ridiculously risky

Gold Price GLD - Equivalent to buying physical gold

Gold miners leveraged NUGT - Ridiculously risky

Biotech IBB 0.17 I think will do well

Biotech 3X LABU - Ridiculously risky

Utilities XLU 4.35 Juicy dividend

Industrials XLI 2.54 Better gain than broad index

REIT VNQ 5.40 Real estate diversification

Preferred Stock PFF 6.50 I donno what pref stock means

But dividend is superb, also stable


INTERNATIONAL

Emerging markets EEM 1.81 May rise out of doldrums soon

Brazil EWZ 1.68 May be a new shining star

China FXI 2.55 [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]

Europe/Far East EFA 3.00 Out of US Developed Mkt ETF

Russia RSX 2.42 Also, a recently budding shiner


BOND

Corporate LQD 3.60 Reliable, stable, good dividend

High Yield/Junk HYG 5.75 Risk reward, both high

Total Bond Mkt BND 2.50 Great choice for dummies

Municipal MUB 2.40 Tax free

Em market bond EMB 4.75 Juicy dividend


INVERSE ETFs [They go up when market goes down!!!!!]

Volatility Inverse 3X UVXY - The riskiest ETF ever

Nasdaq 100 Inv 3X SQQQ - You could lose your shirt

S&P 500 Inv 3X SPXL - You could lose your shirt

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by letsgobobby » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:48 am

what a joke and waste of bandwidth. his boast, not your post.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by OakPhilliesFan » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:56 am

Almost all of these go ahead Boglehead wisdom. Bogleheads generally don't place bets on sectors (energy, financials, etc.) or try to time the market. The only common deviation from broad market indexes is via "factors" -- small/large cap, value/growth, etc.

It's my understanding that the leveraged ETFs don't consistently go up 2X or 3X long-term when their index goes up. That is, you can't buy S&P 500 3X and expect a 15% return for a year in which the S&P 500 goes up 5%. At best, you can get the leveraged return during the day in which you hold it (maybe a bit longer for some -- I don't use them). Maybe that's why he labels them "short term play". Bogleheads are all about buy and hold.

Regardless of investing philosophy, I wouldn't take advice from someone who advocates a preferred stock ETF without knowing what preferred stock is.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by catdude » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:58 am

I don't have ETFs in my portfolio, but I think it's a hoot that this guy labels Total Stock and Total Bond as good choices for dummies. I have those two index funds. I may be a dummy but I suspect at the end of the day I'll do better than this yahoo...
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by whodidntante » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:06 am

Does he play poker?

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by rhodnius » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:11 am

johnny wrote:I don't have ETFs in my portfolio, but I think it's a hoot that this guy labels Total Stock and Total Bond as good choices for dummies. I have those two index funds. I may be a dummy but I suspect at the end of the day I'll do better than this yahoo...


Exactly. I told him that all I have are Total Stock, Total Intl and Total Bond. He told me that, they are too boring and will not get superior returns. He does not even know what the net return of his entire portfolio since he does not take into account fees and taxes.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by rhodnius » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:12 am

whodidntante wrote:Does he play poker?


Omg. Yes he does!!!

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by rhodnius » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:37 am

letsgobobby wrote:what a joke and waste of bandwidth. his boast, not your post.


lol

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by VaR » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:46 am

How are these "picks"? They are all over the map - representing every sector, some commodities, and broad and narrow market indices. He even threw in some ultra-short ETFs.

They are a palette on which to paint a canvas of speculation.

He's right though, we won't get vastly superior returns. We will just get slightly above average returns. And that's the name of the game.

A funny game, retirement, the best way to win is not to lose.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by rhodnius » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:15 am

VaR wrote:How are these "picks"? They are all over the map - representing every sector, some commodities, and broad and narrow market indices. He even threw in some ultra-short ETFs.

They are a palette on which to paint a canvas of speculation.

He's right though, we won't get vastly superior returns. We will just get slightly above average returns. And that's the name of the game.

A funny game, retirement, the best way to win is not to lose.


Well said. That gave me a boost of confidence =)

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by kiddoc » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:16 am

Very exciting portfolio. You can make a month's worth of blog posts and CNBC series based off of this single post.

Exciting is usually bad for investing. Someone once said to me, "the long term return of a portfolio is inversely proportional to the entertainment value it provides along the way".

If I really, really stretch it, I can maybe make a case where some of these speculations could be acceptable: if someone has an extreme need to take risk in the hope of insane rewards: like someone retiring in 2 years, unable to put off retirement, and has a nest egg of $15,000. This person knows they will rely on social security but the nest egg is extremely small and does not even comprise a year's worth of spending. If they lose it, maybe no big effect on lifestyle but if they hit it big, it may shake things up.

PS- If I got this email, my reply would be "How exciting! Can you teach me your rebalancing strategy as well?" :oops:
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by catdude » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:29 am

IIRC, Andrew Tobias, in his book The Only Investment Guide You'll Ever Need, has an appendix where he offers some witty cocktail-party lines that you can use when talking about your investments with folks such as the OP's friend. (Unfortunately I can't find my copy of the book). Good investing is pretty boring, but if you're armed with Tobias' witticisms you can hold your own in conversation with people who think they're investing geniuses.
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Ragnoth » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:33 am

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Even if your goal was to make wildly speculative bets on individual sectors, there are better ways to go about it than monkeying around with ultra-short ETF's (e.g., multi-leg options).

This guy sounds like he spends his time chasing "hunches" and dividend yields. This is the kind of person who will brag excessively about their wins, quietly shuffle their losses under the rug, and get no better than average returns in the long run (with a lot of extra headache and fees along the way).

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by rhodnius » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:46 am

kiddoc wrote:Very exciting portfolio. You can make a month's worth of blog posts and CNBC series based off of this single post.

Exciting is usually bad for investing. Someone once said to me, "the long term return of a portfolio is inversely proportional to the entertainment value it provides along the way".

If I really, really stretch it, I can maybe make a case where some of these speculations could be acceptable: if someone has an extreme need to take risk in the hope of insane rewards: like someone retiring in 2 years, unable to put off retirement, and has a nest egg of $15,000. This person knows they will rely on social security but the nest egg is extremely small and does not even comprise a year's worth of spending. If they lose it, maybe no big effect on lifestyle but if they hit it big, it may shake things up.

PS- If I got this email, my reply would be "How exciting! Can you teach me your rebalancing strategy as well?" :oops:


Lol. I don't think he even knows his stock to bond ratio. He told me he has 5 brokerage accounts and pays $8 per trade. He sold a lot of his stocks fearing the market will tank after the election.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by rhodnius » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:47 am

johnny wrote:IIRC, Andrew Tobias, in his book The Only Investment Guide You'll Ever Need, has an appendix where he offers some witty cocktail-party lines that you can use when talking about your investments with folks such as the OP's friend. (Unfortunately I can't find my copy of the book). Good investing is pretty boring, but if you're armed with Tobias' witticisms you can hold your own in conversation with people who think they're investing geniuses.



I need to get that book! =)

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by rhodnius » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:50 am

Ragnoth wrote:A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Even if your goal was to make wildly speculative bets on individual sectors, there are better ways to go about it than monkeying around with ultra-short ETF's (e.g., multi-leg options).

This guy sounds like he spends his time chasing "hunches" and dividend yields. This is the kind of person who will brag excessively about their wins, quietly shuffle their losses under the rug, and get no better than average returns in the long run (with a lot of extra headache and fees along the way).


Quite accurate. Whenever he talks about his "picks", he's proud on how big the dividends are.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:29 am

rhodnius wrote:Quite accurate. Whenever he talks about his "picks", he's proud on how big the dividends are.


Next time he does, ask him whether they're qualified, whether he's paying tax on them, and whether they are affecting his tax bracket.
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:32 am

rhodnius wrote:Hello,

I have a colleague who is boasting about his investment picks. He even shared to me what investments he has. Can anyone comment on his selections? I will copy and paste what he sent to me below:
-------------------------------------------------------------your shirt


Never talk about specifics of investments with co workers other than to recommend the general Boglehead approach.

Wish him luck, and tell him you'll come to his early retirement party.

Be confirmed by his rashness, in your choice of simple index funds, held long term.

Money is a bit like sexual partners. People (men at least) always exaggerate, and they tell you about the wins, not the losses.
Last edited by Valuethinker on Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:37 am

rhodnius wrote:
Ragnoth wrote:A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Even if your goal was to make wildly speculative bets on individual sectors, there are better ways to go about it than monkeying around with ultra-short ETF's (e.g., multi-leg options).

This guy sounds like he spends his time chasing "hunches" and dividend yields. This is the kind of person who will brag excessively about their wins, quietly shuffle their losses under the rug, and get no better than average returns in the long run (with a lot of extra headache and fees along the way).


Quite accurate. Whenever he talks about his "picks", he's proud on how big the dividends are.


Given the tax drag, etc., he's very unlikely to get average returns.

Consider that the average mutual fund investor does *not* get the average mutual fund performance. Because they chop and change all the time-- they performance chase and get in on the elevator at too high a floor, get to come back down too.

So how likely is it that he would even match the average mutual fund investor?

It is interesting, but this phenomenon seems confined to male colleagues and ex colleagues. Women are a lot more risk averse, less prone to talk about investments, and much more "steady eddie" in the way they invest, I believe.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:42 am

rhodnius wrote:Hello,

I have a colleague who is boasting about his investment picks. He even shared to me what investments he has. Can anyone comment on his selections? I will copy and paste what he sent to me below:
-------------------------------------------------------------irt


A lot of leverage ETFs.

Most of us here have had that unpleasant experience in January 2009 of checking our portfolio (equity) and realizing it was c. 50% of the value of our portfolio in January 2008.

A few then panicked out. Some of us (hand up) stopped paying any attention to our portfolio valuations-- it was just too painful. Some (hand up) stopped investing new money (again a very stupid mistake).

Imagine how that would feel with a 3X move against the underlying index?

The one truth of stock markets is that bear markets tend to be brutal in the early stages (and quick recovery is by no means guaranteed). One of the reasons I stuffed money into a pension (less accessible and less flexible, could hurt me tax wise) is that I knew I would then pay less attention to it, mentally it is in the "long term bucket".

Unfortunately by your middish 50s "long term" ain't what it used to be :?

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by rhodnius » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:00 am

smartinwate wrote:
rhodnius wrote:Quite accurate. Whenever he talks about his "picks", he's proud on how big the dividends are.


Next time he does, ask him whether they're qualified, whether he's paying tax on them, and whether they are affecting his tax bracket.


Will do =)

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by rhodnius » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:02 am

Valuethinker wrote:
rhodnius wrote:Hello,

I have a colleague who is boasting about his investment picks. He even shared to me what investments he has. Can anyone comment on his selections? I will copy and paste what he sent to me below:
-------------------------------------------------------------your shirt


Never talk about specifics of investments with co workers other than to recommend the general Boglehead approach.

Wish him luck, and tell him you'll come to his early retirement party.

Be confirmed by his rashness, in your choice of simple index funds, held long term.

Money is a bit like sexual partners. People (men at least) always exaggerate, and they tell you about the wins, not the losses.


Thank you for your words of wisdom =) I'll tell him next time that I'll come to his early retirement party. Lol

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by livesoft » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:15 am

If an investor doesn't know the actual performance of their portfolio after paying taxes compared to a benchmark, then they are playing the Beardstown Ladies game. They can become famous and write books for awhile, but that doesn't mean they did any better than a buy-hold-rebalance portfolio of broad market index funds on a risk-adjusted basis.

I would tell this person: "Let me see all your transaction statements and I will calculate your after-tax performance for you, so that you can actually tell how great you are."
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by aristotelian » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:25 am

That can't be his real portfolio. He has both 3X and 3X inverse. Even a fool would see the contradiction.

I do like his descriptions "fund for dummies", [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek], "I donno what preferred stock means" etc. The descriptions could give you insight into current irrationalities of the market. I imagine he is not the only investor thinking this way.

Also he has such a diverse portfolio - he is basically in every major sector - he does not realize he could achieve the same diversification but pay zero fees simply by investing in VTI, the fund for dummies. If he really believes in any of these plays, he should pick just one or two.

Finally, I think it is hilarious that he is applying speculative investing to mutual funds and ETFs. Why not just invest in stocks if you really want an exciting portfolio???

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:34 am

aristotelian wrote:That can't be his real portfolio. He has both 3X and 3X inverse. Even a fool would see the contradiction.

I do like his descriptions "fund for dummies", [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek], "I donno what preferred stock means" etc. The descriptions could give you insight into current irrationalities of the market. I imagine he is not the only investor thinking this way.

Also he has such a diverse portfolio - he is basically in every major sector - he does not realize he could achieve the same diversification but pay zero fees simply by investing in VTI, the fund for dummies. If he really believes in any of these plays, he should pick just one or two.

Finally, I think it is hilarious that he is applying speculative investing to mutual funds and ETFs. Why not just invest in stocks if you really want an exciting portfolio???


"dunno what a preferred stock is"? As in a 5 minute trip to Investopedia... if only there were some way to search for things on the internets by just typing in a word or 2 and hitting enter.... if only :?

I have seen a *lot* of people lose a *lot* of money by tricks like this-- the broker put them into something they don't understand the risk-reward relationships.

I would also suggest OP's colleague knows nothing about personal taxation?

The insanity of this portfolio gives me hope that not everyone is practicing a Bogglehead/ Diehard approach, even now, and therefore it is still one likely to produce superior returns.

It also smells of a bull market getting late in the tooth... or not so bigly, maybe.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Gropes & Ray » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:47 am

I have never met someone who trades stocks or ETFs and actually does all of the requisite research to make good long-term value picks, a la Warren Buffet. They tend to just assume that because they are smart they know enough to make picks intuitively. I know a lot of lawyers and they suffer from something I call "Smart People Disease," which is fundamentally a lack of humility.

In this case I think we see someone who wants to have an opinion but doesn't know enough to form one. Take all of his picks together and you have a pretty broad based portfolio that looks a lot like the funds for "dummies."
Last edited by Gropes & Ray on Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Toons » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:49 am

Too complicated for me.
I got halfway through the list ,,,then
quit looking.
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Levett » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:52 am

Ask yourself why you would ever engage with a boaster? It's never about useful information. It's about a claim, however brief, to some version of status.

Listening to a boaster is dangerous to your wealth. Be a happy plodder. 8-)

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by lostdog » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:02 am

I made the mistake a few times talking about investments with family and friends. Here is what happened.

1. Blank stares.

2. One of my friends is a know it all so he proceeded to tell me my way of saving and investing will result in me not having a life which is inaccurate.

3. They will get defensive.

4. They will resent you.

5. Don't insult their family broker.

6. My brother in law is an annuity salesman. He is a crook so I have e to bite my lip constantly during holiday visits.

I find it's best to keep your mouth shut about these matters unless they specifically ask how to save and invest. If they want to argue or put their own spin on it either just listen or change the subject.
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Dieharder » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:28 am

I am done playing these games with people. I show passive interest even when someone brings up the topic of investments at a cocktail party. Mostly there is nothing to be learned from it, and there is no point in giving your opinion of boring investment advice, as no one gets rich quick with slow saving and compound interest. Most people aren't interested in anything unless it offers them a way to get rich quickly. Everyone wants a deal, and they all believe there is a deal to be made if you follow some trading strategy. I move on to next topic. My investments are boring, and if I find someone with similar interest, then again there is nothing much to talk about it, as we will have other interests to talk about since our investments are boring and not worth talking about.

Addendum: I even have active managed funds, but they aren't remotely exciting either since I have held them for over ten years or more. Who wants slow and steady growth that may be eeks out half a percent or one percent above market over 20 years. They need something that doubles their money like 6 days from tomorrow.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Lafder » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:35 am

Keep it simple, invest in the whole market with a 3 fund portfolio. Invest and forget it with occasional rebalancing.

If a colleague showed that portfolio to me, I would say " There is a lot of overlap and un necessary complexity in that portfolio. I prefer a 3 fund portfolio" but you should check out bogleheads.org for yourself. They are the best market advice I have ever found.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by ponyboy » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:39 am

If you throw enough sh*t against the wall something is eventually going to stick. Whatever advice your co worker ever gives you do the complete opposite.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by dbr » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:47 am

Worrying about his investment selections is a total waste of your time.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Raymond » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:48 am

rhodnius, is your co-worker fishing for information about *your* investments?

"I showed you mine, now you show me yours"? :D

I would merely reply, "Bless your heart" and (as mentioned above) wish him a happy early retirement.
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by 9-5 Suited » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:52 am

You will really be better off simply avoiding the argument. There's nothing you can say that will make this guy a three fund Boglehead. And that's OK. To each his own. Let him be happy, and in the likely event his portfolio performs poorly he will be able to self-reflect and learn his own lessons.

Perhaps more importantly, don't think you will get any satisfaction from arguing with him. There is no "gotcha" moment that will just make him say you're right. If you ask him about tax efficiency or some such thing per above, he will just spout some non-sense like "leverage is great for tax efficiency, it aids with capital gains distribution parameters on the downside." (That's a non-sensible statement btw ... but given your limited knowledge of the underlying principles how would you refute it?)

I have the same feeling about posts on this forum that come here seeking a gotcha question to ask a stock broker. You need to know, at a deep level, why all the things you are saying are true first. If you don't, you'll find yourself dissatisfied when the other guy comes back at you with technical jargon you don't understand.

Stay content :) Your day is coming with all these "dummy" Boglehead investments.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by dbr » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:57 am

Raymond wrote:
I would merely reply, "Bless your heart"


In the Southern sense of the expression.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by nisiprius » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:03 am

1) I think he's an idiot to be holding both SPY and VTI. Not that there's any harm in it, there isn't, but it's like insisting on drinking nothing but a carefully crafted mixture of Folger's and Maxwell House.

2) I think he's an idiot to be holding leveraged 3X inverse funds. If he's buying and holding them then he may really be one of those idiots who actually doesn't understand what they are or how they work, and has not even bothered to read, or chooses not to believe, what the ETF companies themselves say about them:
Due to the compounding of daily returns, ProShares' returns over periods other than one day will likely differ in amount and possibly direction from the target return for the same period. These effects may be more pronounced in funds with larger or inverse multiples and in funds with volatile benchmarks. Investors should monitor their holdings consistent with their strategies, as frequently as daily.
In other words, these are supposed to be used for short-term speculation because you have a strong conviction that you know what the markets they track will be doing over the next few days.

If he's actually using them as intended, for short-term speculation, than he's a different kind of idiot.

Let him boast, don't argue with him, just assert that it's not what you do and try not to get drawn into it. Just say "not my thing" and change the subject.

P.S. You yourself might want to read the article about them in the Bogleheads wiki, Inverse and leveraged ETFS. Don't discuss it with him, though.
Last edited by nisiprius on Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by goingup » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:10 am

Levett wrote:Listening to a boaster is dangerous to your wealth. Be a happy plodder. 8-)

Well put! I aspire to be a wealthy happy plodder!

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by barnaclebob » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:15 am

Lol. NEVER believe that anyone like this is successful unless they give your their entire trading history compared against an appropriate benchmark. I would bet $100 that over 10 years he will not beat an equivalent mix of total stock market/int/reit/bond.

I bet he says "you win some you lose some" a lot too.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by an_asker » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:16 am

I don't like why Bogleheads are ganging up against a defenseless (unless the co-worker reads this forum) stock-picker. Hey, I do agree with some of his calls (see below)
rhodnius wrote:Hello,

I have a colleague who is boasting about his investment picks. He even shared to me what investments he has. Can anyone comment on his selections? I will copy and paste what he sent to me below:
-------------------------------------------------------------

My ETF LIST for 2017

[...]

Oil Futures 2X UCO - Risky

Natural Gas 3X UGAZ - Ridiculously risky

[...]

Gold miners leveraged NUGT - Ridiculously risky

[...]

Biotech 3X LABU - Ridiculously risky

[...]

China FXI 2.55 [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]

[...]

Volatility Inverse 3X UVXY - The riskiest ETF ever

Nasdaq 100 Inv 3X SQQQ - You could lose your shirt

S&P 500 Inv 3X SPXL - You could lose your shirt

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by stemikger » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:45 am

I hope Mr. Bogle doesn't see this. lol.

I did get a kick out of his descriptions. This is the opposite of simplicity and IMHO a big waste of time.

At least he admitted he didn't know what a preferred stock was. Which kind of surprised me because the rest of it seemed like a bit of a know-it-all.
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by triceratop » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:56 am

Dieharder wrote:I am done playing these games with people. I show passive interest even when someone brings up the topic of investments at a cocktail party. Mostly there is nothing to be learned from it, and there is no point in giving your opinion of boring investment advice, as no one gets rich quick with slow saving and compound interest. Most people aren't interested in anything unless it offers them a way to get rich quickly. Everyone wants a deal, and they all believe there is a deal to be made if you follow some trading strategy. I move on to next topic. My investments are boring, and if I find someone with similar interest, then again there is nothing much to talk about it, as we will have other interests to talk about since our investments are boring and not worth talking about.

Addendum: I even have active managed funds, but they aren't remotely exciting either since I have held them for over ten years or more. Who wants slow and steady growth that may be eeks out half a percent or one percent above market over 20 years. They need something that doubles their money like 6 days from tomorrow.


I agree. But with indexers there is always still one thing to talk about: taxes! My uncle is pretty close to a Boglehead and he is spending his early retirement as a volunteer tax preparer.

Thanksgiving is fun to talk tax strategy and tax-efficient placement. Lots of fun, and no pesky relations who wish to butt in on a tax conversation!! :)
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by xyz12 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:17 am

rhodnius wrote:-------------------------------------------------------------

Total Stock Market VTI 2.30 A good choice for dummies

Total Bond Mkt BND 2.50 Great choice for dummies


Well, I guess that makes me a dummy? :D :) :beer

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Stan Dup » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:33 am

Send this to your co-worker:
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79324

This too:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vt9xqyjws0ankr5/Mensa.JPG?dl=0

At a recent Christmas party, someone I just met mentioned that he had just retired and was spending his time managing his investments. He was bragging about his recent gains. I asked him to tell me about his losses. To his credit he quickly admitted to having those too.
"The tyranny of compounding expenses is the eighth deadly sin." - George Sisti

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by ERISA Stone » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:34 am

The advice makes a lot of sense if you read it in Rob Riggle's voice. Whoo-hooo!

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by ved » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:44 am

OP,

I think your friend is having fun with you.
With the descriptions he gave for some of the funds, I don't think he believes in investing in them.

You should troll him back and come up with some ridiculously high expense ratio funds, hedge funds and say that's your portfolio.
Or, just have a laugh with him/her.

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Nowizard » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:49 am

His focus is on an exciting portfolio and, he thinks, maximizing return through being "smarter" than the rest of us, if reading between the lines is accurate. I noticed no one actually went to the trouble of figuring out his actual return compared to the typical return of a Boglehead. I doubt the reason is because it would shatter all the advice and approaches discussed on this wonderful site. :happy

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by TheRightKost87 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:04 pm

xyz12 wrote:
rhodnius wrote:-------------------------------------------------------------

Total Stock Market VTI 2.30 A good choice for dummies

Total Bond Mkt BND 2.50 Great choice for dummies


Well, I guess that makes me a dummy? :D :) :beer


Yes - but at least you're a good/great one! :beer
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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by David Jay » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:40 pm

rhodnius wrote:they are too boring ...


I have traveled over 2 million air miles in my working lifetime. I tell people all the time that what I seek in air travel is "boring". I do not seek "excitement", "adventure" or "serendipitous excursions".
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius

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Re: My co-worker boasting about his investments. What do you think about his selections?

Post by Sandtrap » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:49 pm

Perhaps a complement on wise choices is enough. There are so many unique choices for personal investments. Like cars, shoes, golf clubs.
Last edited by Sandtrap on Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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