Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

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BetaTracker
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Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by BetaTracker » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:31 pm

My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
For someone his age and with an adequate portfolio to meet his needs, do you think 50-50 is too risky? What about 40% stocks?
I'd rather be content than happy -- Lao Tzu.

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David Jay
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by David Jay » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:38 pm

If it is money he doesn't need, there is a legitimate argument for assuming more risk to (likely) increase the value of the estate.

I intend to be 60:40 after age 70 (when Social Security will essentially meet all my needs).
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by Dale_G » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:14 am

David, your dad has a few years on me, I am only 79 years young, but I expect to become an adult someday.

I am 70% equities, but I have no need or interest in spending from the portfolio. If dad is not dependent on the portfolio for income, then he is investing for future generations, and 50/50 is certainly appropriate if the next generation is in their 60s or beyond.

The devil is in the details.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by Watty » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:35 am

It is unlikely but he could live to be 105 and spend ten years in a high cost nursing home.

If he has large enough portfolio to take a big stock hit and still pay for that then the extra money is essentially being invested for whoever will inherit it some day. A higher stock allocation might be right for them so it could make sense to increase the stock holdings.

My stock timing skills are terrible but I would not feel comfortable making a big move all at once just in case there is a big market drop in the near future. I would move a little bit each month over the next year until he gets to his desired asset allocation.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by White Coat Investor » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:39 am

BetaTracker wrote:My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
For someone his age and with an adequate portfolio to meet his needs, do you think 50-50 is too risky? What about 40% stocks?
There are very few 92 year olds competent enough to decide on their own asset allocation (Taylor Larimore is one of them obviously.) Make sure your dad is one of them before you let him monkey around with stuff like that.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by Dale_G » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:22 am

White Coat Investor wrote:There a very few 92 year olds competent enough to decide on their own asset allocation (Taylor Larimore is one of them obviously.) Make sure your dad is one of them before you let him monkey around with stuff like that.
very few 92 year olds
Very few? Care to put a number on that? 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 49%?
I am not in ER so I don't see a lot of grown-ups in stressful situations, but I do know a lot of folks 92 and older not in ER who know a whole lot more about investing than their 50 year old grandchildren - especially if their grandchildren happen to be Docs of any sort.

I realize your comment is intended to be helpful, but the "very few" is meaningless. Maybe "some people of any age are not competent to decide on their own allocation".

Dale
Last edited by Dale_G on Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
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mhalley
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by mhalley » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:22 am

50/50 is still pretty conservative. There have been some articles recently about a rising equity glidepath after retirement. Check out this one from Kitces.
https://www.kitces.com/blog/should-equi ... #more-1677

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by GerryL » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:29 am

BetaTracker wrote:My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
For someone his age and with an adequate portfolio to meet his needs, do you think 50-50 is too risky? What about 40% stocks?
The question that occurs to me is "What is he hoping to accomplish?"
Does he feel he might run short of money and want to boost growth? (You could remind him that money that is needed in the next 5 to 10 years shouldn't be in the stock market.)
Is he aiming to increase the amount he leaves to heirs and charities?
Does he just want a chance to "play around" to see if he can grow his bottom line -- because he can?

Without knowing what his goals are, it's hard to say whether 50% stock is too risky.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by White Coat Investor » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:36 am

Dale_G wrote:
White Coat Investor wrote:There a very few 92 year olds competent enough to decide on their own asset allocation (Taylor Larimore is one of them obviously.) Make sure your dad is one of them before you let him monkey around with stuff like that.
very few 92 year olds
Very few? Care to put a number on that? 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 49%?
I am not in ER so I don't see a lot of grown-ups in stressful situations, but I do know a lot of folks 92 and older not in ER who know a whole lot more about investing than their 50 year old grandchildren - especially if their grandchildren happen to be Docs of any sort.

I realize your comment is intended to be helpful, but the "very few" is meaningless. Maybe "some people of any age are not competent to decide on their own allocation".

Dale
The majority of 92 year olds I meet struggle to dress, bathe, shop, and prepare food. All of our mental faculties decrease as we get older. Best to stop managing your own money before you lose competence to do so. When that occurs is obviously different with every one.

But if you want to pin me down to a percentage, I'd say that of people who were competent to manage their own money at 60, perhaps 10-20% of those still alive are still competent to do so at 92.
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by jalbert » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:48 am

If it is in response to the rally in the last several days, then no, the change should not be made.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by letsgobobby » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:19 am

Dale_G wrote:
White Coat Investor wrote:There a very few 92 year olds competent enough to decide on their own asset allocation (Taylor Larimore is one of them obviously.) Make sure your dad is one of them before you let him monkey around with stuff like that.
very few 92 year olds
Very few? Care to put a number on that? 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 49%?
I am not in ER so I don't see a lot of grown-ups in stressful situations, but I do know a lot of folks 92 and older not in ER who know a whole lot more about investing than their 50 year old grandchildren - especially if their grandchildren happen to be Docs of any sort.

I realize your comment is intended to be helpful, but the "very few" is meaningless. Maybe "some people of any age are not competent to decide on their own allocation".

Dale
The data suggest 40% of those over age 85 have dementia. The rate increases steadily after that but if I recall correctly at some point it levels off a bit - some people are simply not prone to dementia no matter how long they live (100 and up).

Physicians have both confirmation bias and sample bias to watch for.

As a wild guess, I'd say 1/4-1/3 of all 92 year olds are competent to manage their basic day to day functions including finances. Some smaller percentage would be capable of making complex financial decisions, but going from 30% stocks to 50% stocks may not be that complex.

Actionable information: don't assume you or your parents will be incompetent at age 92 (or any age). But the odds are substantial so have a succession/back up plan in place.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by nisiprius » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:52 am

BetaTracker wrote:My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
For someone his age and with an adequate portfolio to meet his needs, do you think 50-50 is too risky? What about 40% stocks?
Very seriously, it boils down to whether you'd classify this as "not like him" or "just like him."

If you don't have dead-serious concerns about his cognitive shape, then I wouldn't worry too much about the decision. If you "can get him to moderate his stance a bit," pat yourself on the back.

Keeping in mind, of course, that if it turns out that it is a timing move, and you get him to moderate his stance, you are then in a gambling situation yourself--he will be happy with you if the stock market tanks and unhappy with you if it booms.

Whether it is "too risky" depends on so many other things.

If the judgement is that he does not need the money--that he could take a 50% hit on 50% stocks = a 25% drop in his portfolio value without any wrenching changes in his life--then there's nothing much to say except that some people have "increasing relative risk aversion" and react to more wealth by saying "I don't need to take risk, so I won't," and others have "decreasing relative risk aversion" and say "Now I can afford to take risks and grab for the brass ring."

On the whole, if he is invested in reasonably Bogleheadish way, if the 50% stocks is a small number of fairly sensible mutual funds, and he just wants to buy more of what he already has, then I wouldn't be too concerned. You have to disengage a bit and say OK, he's an adult and can take the consequences of his decision. The big danger would be if he suddenly wanted to liquidate everything and put it all into a local business partnership, or a single speculative stock, or something like that.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by MSDOGS1976 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:03 am

BetaTracker wrote:My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
For someone his age and with an adequate portfolio to meet his needs, do you think 50-50 is too risky? What about 40% stocks?
Good for him that he still has the mind to even be interested in stocks and investing. Having said that, if he has enough to be meet his needs I can't imagine upping stocks at this point. I'm 30 years shy of 92 and don't have 30% allocated to stocks right now. Of course most here would say I'm too conservative. With the DOW being at an all time high, I would certainly not recommend upping a 92 y/o allocation in equities.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by JW-Retired » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:23 am

BetaTracker wrote:My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
For someone his age and with an adequate portfolio to meet his needs, do you think 50-50 is too risky? What about 40% stocks?
It depends. Please clarify "adequate". How much of his portfolio is he spending per year now? How long could he pay for assisted living/nursing home? Is he married?

IMO, the fact that he ran this by you and is willing to listen is heartening. :beer
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by dbr » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:28 am

I don't think a 50/50 allocation is objectively too risky at his age. But the real issues might include:

1. How do his present and possible future spending compare to his resources?

2. Is this change going to be whipsaw behavior of moving the asset allocation around to chase the market, buy high, sell low, etc.?

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by BetaTracker » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:22 pm

Thank you for the help! Fortunately, my father is very sharp and no worries about dimentia or anything like that. This is a pure market timing urge, something I thought he was well over. But I think he can't keep from seeing all of the articles coming out about a boom in sectors like infrastructure, raw materials, real estate and energy with Trump's incoming administration.
My father is a staunch independent and doesn't normally follow any particular political party. That is why all of this talk of raising his stock allocation comes as such a surprise. Nothing material has changed in his life or financial situation.
I'd rather be content than happy -- Lao Tzu.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by nedsaid » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:53 pm

BetaTracker wrote:Thank you for the help! Fortunately, my father is very sharp and no worries about dimentia or anything like that. This is a pure market timing urge, something I thought he was well over. But I think he can't keep from seeing all of the articles coming out about a boom in sectors like infrastructure, raw materials, real estate and energy with Trump's incoming administration.
My father is a staunch independent and doesn't normally follow any particular political party. That is why all of this talk of raising his stock allocation comes as such a surprise. Nothing material has changed in his life or financial situation.
The problem is even though your Dad might be 100% correct, he would not be the only one in the world with such knowledge. Lots of folks out there thinking the very same thing which pretty much would negate any excess return. The institutional investors have smart people, bigger money to work with, faster computers and better software. They will have this figured out and have pulled the trigger before your Dad could act. Stay the course is pretty good advice. He isn't going to outsmart the big institutions.
A fool and his money are good for business.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by Sheepdog » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:11 pm

My kids would never listen to me so why should I listen to them now. It's my money after all. Go seniors, gooooooo. :beer
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by lmpmd » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:33 pm

Does your dad have all his accounts in your name and in his name? I'd say you two should think about that. It might make things easier should he pass away in the next few years. I certainly hope he doesn't. Good luck.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by pkcrafter » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:35 pm

My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
His response suggests he is acting rationally. Suggest to him an increase to 40%. If he's trying to speculate on the market due to recent events, that isn't an indication of competence as many much younger investors are playing the same game.

DavidJay offers about as good a reply as we can come up with- -
If it is money he doesn't need, there is a legitimate argument for assuming more risk to (likely) increase the value of the estate.
cheers to dad.

Paul
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lmpmd
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by lmpmd » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:43 pm

https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/population/longevity.html
This gives a rough idea of life expectancy. Maybe it will help? But it doesn't factor in exercise and such:

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by White Coat Investor » Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:41 pm

lmpmd wrote:Does your dad have all his accounts in your name and in his name? I'd say you two should think about that. It might make things easier should he pass away in the next few years. I certainly hope he doesn't. Good luck.
Not a taxable account. That would be terrible to lose the step up in basis.
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by El Greco » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:05 pm

When my father was 99,and only a couple of months from death, he was still keenly interested in the stock market and completely in control of his faculties and his finances. At the time, I remember him asking me to explain the concept of Cloud Computing to him as he had read that IBM (one of his stock investments) was getting heavily into cloud computing. After I explained the concept to him, he decided not to sell his IBM stock but to hold it instead and sell some other investment instead, principally to pay the aides that were taking care of him in his final days. Until the day he died, at 99, my dad lived in his own home and had complete control of his finances. I never attempted to get control of them as he obviously knew what he was doing. When he passed away, I was amazed at the amount of assets he had, considering he was an immigrant with no more than a high school education, a cook who worked in commercial kitchens until he was 69 and never made a salary more than 50k per year in today's dollars. He was frugal, smart and investor till the day he died. I guess my point is this: If you're dad is still sharp, and can take the potential loss in the event of a crash, let him run his own affairs. Make your point about a 40% allocation, but if he insists on 50% who are you to argue?

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by donall » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:39 pm

I've learned to Bite my tongue after being told, "I've gotten this far without your advice."

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Will do good
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by Will do good » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:12 pm

I plan to raise my stock AA as I get older, with SS at 70yo I expect my SWR to be very low so I can take on more risk for future generations. If your dad have more than he needs to live, why not let him invest for future generations?
Last edited by Will do good on Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by gerntz » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:14 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
BetaTracker wrote:My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
For someone his age and with an adequate portfolio to meet his needs, do you think 50-50 is too risky? What about 40% stocks?
There are very few 92 year olds competent enough to decide on their own asset allocation (Taylor Larimore is one of them obviously.) Make sure your dad is one of them before you let him monkey around with stuff like that.
Not changing his asset allocation is also making a decision, or in your parlance, to "monkey around". Why is it the child's right to "let" him do anything? How can you begin to compare this man with TL? Good grief.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by gerntz » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:15 pm

David Jay wrote:If it is money he doesn't need, there is a legitimate argument for assuming more risk to (likely) increase the value of the estate.
Exactly.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by Stonebr » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:18 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
BetaTracker wrote:My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
For someone his age and with an adequate portfolio to meet his needs, do you think 50-50 is too risky? What about 40% stocks?
There are very few 92 year olds competent enough to decide on their own asset allocation (Taylor Larimore is one of them obviously.) Make sure your dad is one of them before you let him monkey around with stuff like that.
You've got a lot of nerve.

50/50 isn't exactly betting the farm, and it's HIS farm.
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by Ged » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:23 pm

David Jay wrote:If it is money he doesn't need, there is a legitimate argument for assuming more risk to (likely) increase the value of the estate.

I intend to be 60:40 after age 70 (when Social Security will essentially meet all my needs).
I am planning a very similar path for my portfolio. It has nothing to do with market timing and everything to do with my family's needs and ability to take risk.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by EternalOptimist » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:33 pm

Stonebr wrote:
White Coat Investor wrote:
BetaTracker wrote:My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
For someone his age and with an adequate portfolio to meet his needs, do you think 50-50 is too risky? What about 40% stocks?
There are very few 92 year olds competent enough to decide on their own asset allocation (Taylor Larimore is one of them obviously.) Make sure your dad is one of them before you let him monkey around with stuff like that.
You've got a lot of nerve.

50/50 isn't exactly betting the farm, and it's HIS farm.
+1
Incredibly prejudiced comment. What if "some people" 92 have dementia, what does that have to do with this one man that you never even met. I know several people that age who are very vital people!
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by WildBill » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:36 pm

donall wrote:I've learned to Bite my tongue after being told, "I've gotten this far without your advice."
Bravo!
"Through chances various, through all vicissitudes, we make our way." Virgil, The Aeneid

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by White Coat Investor » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:57 pm

EternalOptimist wrote:
Stonebr wrote:
White Coat Investor wrote:
BetaTracker wrote:My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
For someone his age and with an adequate portfolio to meet his needs, do you think 50-50 is too risky? What about 40% stocks?
There are very few 92 year olds competent enough to decide on their own asset allocation (Taylor Larimore is one of them obviously.) Make sure your dad is one of them before you let him monkey around with stuff like that.
You've got a lot of nerve.

50/50 isn't exactly betting the farm, and it's HIS farm.
+1
Incredibly prejudiced comment. What if "some people" 92 have dementia, what does that have to do with this one man that you never even met. I know several people that age who are very vital people!
It has nothing to do with prejudice. It's purely practical. Pretending there is no cognitive decline as we age is silly. Of course everyone is different and that's why I suggested the OP be sure his dad is still competent to do this.

The median MMSE score by age and education can be seen here:

http://www.gericareonline.net/tools/eng ... _chart.doc

Bottom line is the median score for the most highly educated is 30 from age 18 to 49, 29 from age 50 to age 74, and 28 above that. For the less educated, scores drop from 28-29 to 24-26.

In my opinion, if you can't get a perfect or near-perfect score on the MMSE, you have no business managing your own money. Try the test and see. It's not a hard test to get a perfect score.

Maximum Score
Orientation
5 ( ) What is the (year) (season) (date) (day) (month)?
5 ( ) Where are we (state) (country) (town) (hospital) (floor)?
Registration
3 ( ) Name 3 objects: 1 second to say each. Then ask the patient
all 3 after you have said them. Give 1 point for each correct answer.
Then repeat them until he/she learns all 3. Count trials and record.
Trials ___________
Attention and Calculation
5 ( ) Serial 7’s. 1 point for each correct answer. Stop after 5 answers.
Alternatively spell “world” backward.
Recall
3 ( ) Ask for the 3 objects repeated above. Give 1 point for each correct answer.
Language
2 ( ) Name a pencil and watch.
1 ( ) Repeat the following “No ifs, ands, or buts”
3 ( ) Follow a 3-stage command:
“Take a paper in your hand, fold it in half, and put it on the floor.”
1 ( ) Read and obey the following: CLOSE YOUR EYES
1 ( ) Write a sentence.
1 ( ) Copy the design shown.
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by BetaTracker » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:30 pm

I sat down with my father last night and I'm pleased to report that he's agreed to only bumping up his allocation in the Vanguard Total Stock fund by 10% to 40%. He's also going to take a small portion out of the Total Bond fund to put into the short-term corporate bond fund. He liked the idea of adding a little bit more diversity on the bond side to complement changes on the stock side.
Thanks again for all the sage help!
I'd rather be content than happy -- Lao Tzu.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by Childay » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:37 pm

This board is so predictable. I knew before reading there would be the usual "don't tell old folks what to do" replies.
Concerns about cognitive impairment should be a fairly inoffensive suggestion, given the high incidence of dementia in 92 year olds as noted above!
That said 50/50 isn't gonna make that much difference..

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by WhiteMaxima » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:07 pm

Why not? If he does't need the money tomorrow, the stock is better than cash. He could pass along these stock to his heir and pay no tax to certain a amount. I would say 3~5 years living expense in conservative portfolio and rest in equity.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by downshiftme » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:03 pm

At age 92, actually probably well before age 92, I expect that I will have enough portfolio to sustain my modest wants, especially with SS, pension, annuity payments making up a large part of my monthly budget. At that point I expect to invest the rest of the portfolio for the benefit of my children and grandchildren, who have a longer time horizon and a bigger appetite for risk than a 92 year old me. That probably means some kind of gifting plan, and a stock allocation greater than 50%, maybe as high as 80% if I'm very secure that my needs are met.

randomguy
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by randomguy » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:08 pm

BetaTracker wrote:My father, 92 years young, told me today that he wants to raise his allocation from 30% stocks to 50%.
After talking to him again about the dangers of market timing, he's willing to moderate his stance a bit.
For someone his age and with an adequate portfolio to meet his needs, do you think 50-50 is too risky? What about 40% stocks?
Depends on how much money he has. For example imagine he has 1 million dollars and needs 40k/year for spending. Don't you think 500k of bonds(i.e. 12 years) is more than enough to handle his needs?


Obviously the question is why does he want more stocks and then why now? Maybe he has good reasons. Maybe he doesn't. Reality is the difference between 30% and 50% are pretty minimal. It isn't like he is talking 80%+ for stocks. If he had been 50% stocks previously I wouldn't blink at being at 50/50. But any change should be thought about. When and why did he go to 30%?

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by DTSC » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:54 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Dale_G wrote:
White Coat Investor wrote:There a very few 92 year olds competent enough to decide on their own asset allocation (Taylor Larimore is one of them obviously.) Make sure your dad is one of them before you let him monkey around with stuff like that.
very few 92 year olds
Very few? Care to put a number on that? 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 49%?
I am not in ER so I don't see a lot of grown-ups in stressful situations, but I do know a lot of folks 92 and older not in ER who know a whole lot more about investing than their 50 year old grandchildren - especially if their grandchildren happen to be Docs of any sort.

I realize your comment is intended to be helpful, but the "very few" is meaningless. Maybe "some people of any age are not competent to decide on their own allocation".

Dale
The majority of 92 year olds I meet struggle to dress, bathe, shop, and prepare food. All of our mental faculties decrease as we get older. Best to stop managing your own money before you lose competence to do so. When that occurs is obviously different with every one.

But if you want to pin me down to a percentage, I'd say that of people who were competent to manage their own money at 60, perhaps 10-20% of those still alive are still competent to do so at 92.
The ones you are seeing in the ER are obviously not healthy, so your experience might be biased by that. As you know, a UTI can make the most competent 92 year old completely delirious, even if they are health enough to manage their finances and play 3 rounds of golf per week.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by Gropes & Ray » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:01 pm

Childay wrote:This board is so predictable. I knew before reading there would be the usual "don't tell old folks what to do" replies.
Concerns about cognitive impairment should be a fairly inoffensive suggestion, given the high incidence of dementia in 92 year olds as noted above!
That said 50/50 isn't gonna make that much difference..
The board has a high degree of moralizing and prying into private issues beyond the immediate question. But, it's a great place for investment advice and people will put a lot of time into considering your issues and helping you, if you can bear the nonsense. :sharebeer

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by White Coat Investor » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:39 pm

DTSC wrote:
The ones you are seeing in the ER are obviously not healthy, so your experience might be biased by that. As you know, a UTI can make the most competent 92 year old completely delirious, even if they are health enough to manage their finances and play 3 rounds of golf per week.
Undoubtedly. I also see a plethora of people in their 20s and 30s and 40s that couldn't manage a portfolio either.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by DTSC » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:47 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
DTSC wrote:
The ones you are seeing in the ER are obviously not healthy, so your experience might be biased by that. As you know, a UTI can make the most competent 92 year old completely delirious, even if they are health enough to manage their finances and play 3 rounds of golf per week.
Undoubtedly. I also see a plethora of people in their 20s and 30s and 40s that couldn't manage a portfolio either.
Many of the young people only have a portfolio of debt.

What do they say - do not exceed you willingness, ability and need to take risk. The need part might be in question here. Ironically, having dementia (but not bad enough to let you die peacefully) and otherwise being completely physically healthy might increase your need for a larger portfolio.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by JW-Retired » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:03 pm

BetaTracker wrote:I sat down with my father last night and I'm pleased to report that he's agreed to only bumping up his allocation in the Vanguard Total Stock fund by 10% to 40%. He's also going to take a small portion out of the Total Bond fund to put into the short-term corporate bond fund. He liked the idea of adding a little bit more diversity on the bond side to complement changes on the stock side.
Thanks again for all the sage help!
This sounds fairly harmless but I don't know how anybody here can be confident of that. There is still no clue in the thread about what your father's spending needs are from this Vanguard account?
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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by nisiprius » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:58 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:In my opinion, if you can't get a perfect or near-perfect score on the MMSE, you have no business managing your own money. Try the test and see. It's not a hard test to get a perfect score.
True story (well, told to me by my truthful wife).

My wife goes in for her annual Medicare "wellness visit." NP says to her "I'm going to name three words. Please try to remember them after I say them. We'll talk for a few more minutes, and then I'll ask you to remember the three words. The three words are: apple, table, penny." My wife says "Oh, those are the same three you used last year." NP says to her, "OK, you pass."
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by spth » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:54 am

White Coat Investor wrote:
But if you want to pin me down to a percentage, I'd say that of people who were competent to manage their own money at 60, perhaps 10-20% of those still alive are still competent to do so at 92.
You just made that up

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by White Coat Investor » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:44 am

spth wrote:
White Coat Investor wrote:
But if you want to pin me down to a percentage, I'd say that of people who were competent to manage their own money at 60, perhaps 10-20% of those still alive are still competent to do so at 92.
You just made that up
Yes, I told you I made it up where I used the words "I'd say..."

Congratulations on your excellent reading comprehension.

If you know of some kind of valid statistical study addressing this issue, I'm all ears. Until then, I'll just toss my opinion out there and you can decide if it is expert or not.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by Engineer250 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:57 am

White Coat Investor wrote:In my opinion, if you can't get a perfect or near-perfect score on the MMSE, you have no business managing your own money. Try the test and see. It's not a hard test to get a perfect score.
Have seen my grandparents go through similar tests to this while in the hospital.

In a way this thread makes me take relief that none of my grandparents ever had any money, and my parents and my in-laws certainly won't be leaving anything. Makes things far less complicated.

We have no kids and plan to leave whatever's leftover to charity. Don't need any nieces/nephews waiting for me to die or trying to manage my money for me while I'm alive. Save them and me as much pain as possible. Money seems to cause so much family disagreement.
Where the tides of fortune take us, no man can know.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by TravelforFun » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:42 pm

Get him on this forum so he can discuss his own finance.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by El Greco » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:08 pm

True story (well, told to me by my truthful wife).

My wife goes in for her annual Medicare "wellness visit." NP says to her "I'm going to name three words. Please try to remember them after I say them. We'll talk for a few more minutes, and then I'll ask you to remember the three words. The three words are: apple, table, penny." My wife says "Oh, those are the same three you used last year." NP says to her, "OK, you pass."
LOL +10 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by inbox788 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:10 pm

nisiprius wrote:
White Coat Investor wrote:In my opinion, if you can't get a perfect or near-perfect score on the MMSE, you have no business managing your own money. Try the test and see. It's not a hard test to get a perfect score.
True story (well, told to me by my truthful wife).

My wife goes in for her annual Medicare "wellness visit." NP says to her "I'm going to name three words. Please try to remember them after I say them. We'll talk for a few more minutes, and then I'll ask you to remember the three words. The three words are: apple, table, penny." My wife says "Oh, those are the same three you used last year." NP says to her, "OK, you pass."
Not a true story (well, not told to me by my deceitful uncle).

His wife goes in for her driver's license renewal and they need an eye check. The clerk asks her to read the 3rd line. She's memorized all the lines and they haven't changed them in years. His wife says "OCDFG" clerk says to her, "OK, you pass." :shock:

Seriously, age plays a factor and I think those that consider it are well meaning, not simply being judgmental. Society faces similar issues in determining which older folks should be driving (all drivers, but especially older drivers). I wish I could go forward in time to aid myself when I'm 92 and having to make this type of decision, and in most cases stopping myself from making changes. Since I can't, I'd consider some legal restrictions today (trust?) that would set things up today and make it difficult for me to screw up in the future. What's kept me doing so is I haven't found the right way of doing it, and I want to leave a small window of options to provide investment flexibility for things I have not considered. Or putting someone I trust to help make those decision, but I haven't yet found the right person (Sounds like OP has his heart in the right place and is in a challenging position). So for now, I'm stuck with myself as the decision maker, of sound mind or not.

In any case, I still don't think there is enough information to make an informed choice in this specific situation, but in general, a 10% change in AA isn't really a big decision IMO, so if that turns out to be the extent of the change, I wouldn't stress.

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Re: Age 92 Dad Wants to Boost stocks

Post by Sagenick48 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:07 pm

A 92 year old who understands the concept of asset allocation and knows his present allocation has probably placed himself in the top 5% of the entire US population.
The market goes up, the market goes down.

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