portfolio advice

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jafcorrea
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portfolio advice

Post by jafcorrea » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:25 pm

am i doing something wrong??

Live in California, 52 years, NO mortgage/car loans
rental income 60,000
salary 108,000
checking/saving balance = 40,000

VTSMX simple ira ... 70k - max contribution $1290 p/m - expense ratio 0.16 (opened in 2013)

vanguard VTSAX
roth ira ... 60k - max contribution $540 p/m- expense ratio 0.05
traditional ira .. 30k - NO contribution in 2015/2016 - expense ratio 0.05

I would like to add VBTLX and VGSLX on my retirement portfolio

Questions :) ... because vanguard do not offer admiral shares on simple ira

roll/transfer 20k to my tira and buy VBTLX and VGSLX and start making max contribution for 2017 and stop contributing for the roth in 2017?

or

exchange 20k on my simple ira and buy VBTLX and VGSLX and change contributions for 2017 ... 80% VTSAX 10% VBTLX 10% VGSLX ... and continuum making max contribution to roth ira $540 p/m ?

or

exchange 20k on my roth ira and buy VBTLX and VGSLX and change contributions for 2017 ... 80% VTSAX 10% VBTLX 10% VGSLX ... and continuum making max contribution to simple ira $1290 p/m and no contribution traditional ira in 2017


many thanks in advance

JC
Last edited by jafcorrea on Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:27 am, edited 3 times in total.
Thanks JC

krow36
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by krow36 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:30 pm

You will get more and better advice if you use the suggested format for asking questions: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212 You can edit this thread and keep everything in one place.

As mentioned by several posters in your other thread, there is no reason to not transfer ALL of the balance in your Vanguard SIMPLE IRA to a Vanguard tIRA. You will have access to Admiral class funds in the tIRA. You will still have your VG SIMPLE account which will continue to receive your and your employer’s contributions. You can do this transfer several times during the year. You’ll be able to do all your rebalancing in your tIRA account.

Since all your retirement accounts are at Vanguard, it doesn’t really matter which you choose max out. Of course the ideal is to max out both the SIMPLE (12.5K) and the tIRA/Roth IRA (5.5k).

Please convert your salary and rent to annual rather than monthly.

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jafcorrea
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by jafcorrea » Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:12 pm

krow36 wrote:You will get more and better advice if you use the suggested format for asking questions: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212 You can edit this thread and keep everything in one place.

As mentioned by several posters in your other thread, there is no reason to not transfer ALL of the balance in your Vanguard SIMPLE IRA to a Vanguard tIRA. You will have access to Admiral class funds in the tIRA. You will still have your VG SIMPLE account which will continue to receive your and your employer’s contributions. You can do this transfer several times during the year. You’ll be able to do all your rebalancing in your tIRA account.

Since all your retirement accounts are at Vanguard, it doesn’t really matter which you choose max out. Of course the ideal is to max out both the SIMPLE (12.5K) and the tIRA/Roth IRA (5.5k).

Please convert your salary and rent to annual rather than monthly.



first of all sorry, somehow i clicked on the '!" .... new here

also the question remains,

after i transfer to tIRA, to do all your re-balancing ... do i start making 2017 contribution to the tIRA and stop Roth IRA?

I cannot max out both tIRA/Roth IRA ... (6.5k i am 52y)

that is the area i am confuse the most
Thanks JC

krow36
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by krow36 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:32 pm

jafcorrea wrote:also the question remains,
after i transfer to tIRA, to do all your re-balancing ... do i start making 2017 contribution to the tIRA and stop Roth IRA?
I cannot max out both tIRA/Roth IRA ... (6.5k i am 52y)
that is the area i am confuse the most

It's up to you whether you choose to fully fund the tIRA or the Roth, or some to both, so that the total contribution for the year is 6.5k. If your concern is based on a monthly contribution from a taxable account or from your monthly pay, I think you can set it up to contribute to both accounts if that's what you want.

Although your SIMPLE IRA has to be contributed to through payroll deductions, your tIRA and Roth IRA are different and you can transfer your contribution directly from your bank or send in a check. You can do this all at once, or spread it out over the year, up until your income tax due date.

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jafcorrea
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by jafcorrea » Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:50 pm

my dilemma is .. after i transfer $ from Simple IRA to tIRA, (so i can take advantage on admiral shares) and do all the re-balancing 80% VTSAX 10% VBTLX 10% VGSLX

.... do i start making 2017 max contribution to the tIRA and stop Roth IRA?

or do the transfer every year and re-balancing and continuum doing the max contribution to the Roth IRA?
Thanks JC

krow36
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by krow36 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:50 pm

I'm not sure I understand your dilemma. Is it that you are having trouble with whether to make your yearly contribution to a traditional or to a Roth IRA? Have you looked over the Wiki on this? https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Traditional_versus_Roth
Choosing one or the other might keep you from moving into the next higher tax bracket, either now or in retirement. So you can work on that angle. Another consideration is to diversify your account types. I would fund the Roth IRA rather than the tIRA for this reason. Once you make this decision, either tIRA, Roth IRA or some of each, the rest is easy isn't it? Am I helping with your dilemma?

If you have the same 3 funds in your 3 accounts, and add new contributions using your desired AA, you will not have much if any rebalancing to do. You haven't mentioned a taxable account for retirement?

The SIMPLE to traditional transfer should be easy to do several times a year. Talk to Vanguard about it!

I suggest you have at least 20% bonds---especially considering your age. Also you should consider the REIT as part of your equity allocation. The REIT market is already part of your Total Stock Mkt fund so maybe 5% VGSLX would be a more reasonable tilt? It's up to you of course.

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jafcorrea
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by jafcorrea » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:18 pm

yes my dilemma is choosing where to contribute tIRa or Roth IRA, after I do the SIMPLE tranfer ... thanks for the link going to read

about ..."If you have the same 3 funds in your 3 accounts, and add new contributions using your desired AA, you will not have much if any rebalancing to do. You haven't mentioned a taxable account for retirement?"

the answer is No, I have all on VTSAX
tIRa 30k
Roth IRA 60k
SIMPLE 70k

I am thinking in transferring from the SIMPLE the most i can to tIRa and than rebalancing 75% VTSAX, 20% VBTLX and 5% VGSLX like you advice

Do I make sense know :)


Thanks a lot for all the explanation
Thanks JC

krow36
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by krow36 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:27 pm

jafcorrea wrote: I have all on VTSAX
tIRa 30k
Roth IRA 60k
SIMPLE 70k

I am thinking in transferring from the SIMPLE the most i can to tIRa and than rebalancing 75% VTSAX, 20% VBTLX and 5% VGSLX like you advice

Yes, I get it now and it's my mistake for not reading your OP more carefully on your present AA. And yes, your plan looks good to me!

On rebalancing, you should change the SIMPLE IRA from TSM to TSM, TBM and REIT, even though they are Investor class. This may depend on how easy it is to do the transfer? Your tIRA and Roth IRA can be changed any time to the 3 Admiral funds you want, either by phone or in the internet account. There are no tax consequences to making changes in any type of IRA.

Have you considered some Total International Stock Mkt Index fund? This is usually considered a good idea because it increases diversification. TISM hasn't been doing too well recently, but that may just mean that it's a bargain right now?? Vanguard recommends 40% of equities be Int'l, many Bogleheads suggest 20-30%, I'm only 10%, others choose 0%. It's worth thinking about, and you can add it or not later after you've done some reading on the topic. If you went 20% Int'l it would work out to:
60% TSM, 15% TISM, 20% TBM, 5% REIT

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jafcorrea
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by jafcorrea » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:27 pm

Investor class ??... TSM Simple IRA is expense ratio 0.16 and t IRA for 0.05 / TBM 0.16 / 0.06 and REIT 0.26 / 0.12.... why?

funny, i did not mention anything on my first OP but I was thinking later adding a 5% VTIAX and 5% VEMAXX even a ?% VGHCX

just for fun .. what do you think?
Thanks JC

krow36
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by krow36 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:09 pm

jafcorrea wrote:Investor class ??... TSM Simple IRA is expense ratio 0.16 and t IRA for 0.05 / TBM 0.16 / 0.06 and REIT 0.26 / 0.12.... why?
For Vanguard index funds, there's a minimum of 3k for Admiral class, otherwise it's Investor class. For non-index funds like REIT there's a minimum of 10k for Admiral class. Because of the extra record keeping chores in employer based retirement accounts such as SIMPLE IRAs, SEP IRAs and 403b's, Vanguard only allows Investor class. Vanguard is very focused on not giving some of their investors a break that other of their investors have to pay for.
funny, i did not mention anything on my first OP but I was thinking later adding a 5% VTIAX and 5% VEMAXX even a ?% VGHCX
just for fun .. what do you think?
VEMAXX (emerging mkts) is already part of VTIAX. VGHCX (health care) is already part of TSM. You can add these tilts if you want, but I like your more simple AA with only the 3 Total funds, plus the REIT if you want. I think it would be a good idea for you to do more reading before you stray from the simple. Simple is good! Have you read this thread on the 3 fund portfolio? viewtopic.php?f=10&t=88005

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jafcorrea
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by jafcorrea » Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:25 pm

krow36 wrote:
jafcorrea wrote:Investor class ??... TSM Simple IRA is expense ratio 0.16 and t IRA for 0.05 / TBM 0.16 / 0.06 and REIT 0.26 / 0.12.... why?
For Vanguard index funds, there's a minimum of 3k for Admiral class, otherwise it's Investor class. For non-index funds like REIT there's a minimum of 10k for Admiral class. Because of the extra record keeping chores in employer based retirement accounts such as SIMPLE IRAs, SEP IRAs and 403b's, Vanguard only allows Investor class. Vanguard is very focused on not giving some of their investors a break that other of their investors have to pay for.
funny, i did not mention anything on my first OP but I was thinking later adding a 5% VTIAX and 5% VEMAXX even a ?% VGHCX
just for fun .. what do you think?
VEMAXX (emerging mkts) is already part of VTIAX. VGHCX (health care) is already part of TSM. You can add these tilts if you want, but I like your more simple AA with only the 3 Total funds, plus the REIT if you want. I think it would be a good idea for you to do more reading before you stray from the simple. Simple is good! Have you read this thread on the 3 fund portfolio? viewtopic.php?f=10&t=88005



thanks for this link

I was thinking in transferring part of the funds from Simple IRA to tIRa and save on the expense ratio,
also continuum doing my regular contribution on my Simple, also I like the idea do do the 3 funds plus the REIT ... :sharebeer :

going to call VG on monday and ask how much can I do, since my Simple was open in 2013,
Thanks JC

krow36
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by krow36 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:35 pm

This is what the IRS says about SIMPLE IRA transfers:
Can I transfer an amount from my SIMPLE IRA to another IRA in a tax-free trustee-to-trustee transfer?

During the 2-year period, you may transfer an amount in a SIMPLE IRA to another SIMPLE IRA in a tax-free trustee-to-trustee transfer. If, during this 2-year period, an amount is paid from a SIMPLE IRA directly to the trustee of an IRA that is not a SIMPLE IRA, then the payment is neither a tax-free trustee-to-trustee transfer nor a rollover contribution. The payment is a distribution from the SIMPLE IRA and a contribution to the other IRA that doesn’t qualify as a rollover contribution. After the expiration of the 2-year period, you may transfer an amount in a SIMPLE IRA in a tax-free trustee-to-trustee transfer to an IRA that is not a SIMPLE IRA. https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/si ... -rollovers

I’m very confident that the IRS is saying that you can transfer ALL of your SIMPLE IRA (that you first contributed more than 2 years ago) to your tIRA. "An amount" means any amount you choose. Other posters have done this repeatedly. You are very fortunate that your SIMPLE is with Vanguard so that the transfer should be easy. The usual situation is someone has a SIMPLE with a different (expensive) provider and it’s necessary to fill out the Vanguard Asset Transfer Form and mail it to Vanguard along with an account statement of the old SIMPLE. Vanguard then has to send the form to the provider which finally transfers the account to Vanguard. This usually takes several weeks, sometimes a month. Since your SIMPLE is with Vanguard and you already have a tIRA at Vanguard, I think it’s possible that the transfer will be easier and quicker than it usually is. I would call the Vanguard using the number that is on your Vanguard SIMPLE statement. They’re open 8 to 8 EST. Vanguard has been a bit slow with their service lately due to a lot of folks wanting to join them, so you need to be patient. Good luck on Monday!

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jafcorrea
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by jafcorrea » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:50 pm

thanks again for the info, let you know what happened next week, but the way IRS is saying I think is better for me to wait until 2017, so I can transfer the contribution from 2013/14, since i opened the Simple in 2013 and I can do only on the last 2 yeas ... kind of confuse :D
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krow36
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by krow36 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:18 am

jafcorrea wrote:thanks again for the info, let you know what happened next week, but the way IRS is saying I think is better for me to wait until 2017, so I can transfer the contribution from 2013/14, since i opened the Simple in 2013 and I can do only on the last 2 yeas ... kind of confuse :D

OK, I see what's bothering you. The 2 year waiting period before you can transfer a SIMPLE IRA to a tIRA is NOT like a rolling surrender fee where the 2 years applies to each contribution. It's a very simple rule. If you first contributed to the SIMPLE IRA account more than 2 years ago, you are allowed to transfer ALL of your SIMPLE IRA funds to your tIRA.

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Re: portfolio advice

Post by jafcorrea » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:30 am

krow36 wrote:
jafcorrea wrote:thanks again for the info, let you know what happened next week, but the way IRS is saying I think is better for me to wait until 2017, so I can transfer the contribution from 2013/14, since i opened the Simple in 2013 and I can do only on the last 2 yeas ... kind of confuse :D

OK, I see what's bothering you. The 2 year waiting period before you can transfer a SIMPLE IRA to a tIRA is NOT like a rolling surrender fee where the 2 years applies to each contribution. It's a very simple rule. If you first contributed to the SIMPLE IRA account more than 2 years ago, you are allowed to transfer ALL of your SIMPLE IRA funds to your tIRA.


great news :sharebeer
Thanks JC

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jafcorrea
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by jafcorrea » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:01 pm

Hi,

Called vanguard today and I can transfer all contribution + dividends from my simple to traditional ira ( I need to leave a 3k or more on simple not to close the account), and take advantage on a lower expense ratio

Now the second question emerge … I will have 2 tax deferred accounts after I am 60, and I will reduce a lot my contribution on my roth ira

Transferring simple to t ira good or bad idea?? or do a re balancing on my simple and call it a day

Any thoughts
Thanks JC

krow36
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by krow36 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:32 pm

jafcorrea wrote:Hi,

Called vanguard today and I can transfer all contribution + dividends from my simple to traditional ira ( I need to leave a 3k or more on simple not to close the account), and take advantage on a lower expense ratio

Now the second question emerge … I will have 2 tax deferred accounts after I am 60, and I will reduce a lot my contribution on my roth ira
While you are working and contributing to your employer's plan, you'll have a SIMPLE IRA account to receive your and your employer's contributions. The maximum contribution you can make is 12.5k and your employer contributes 3% of your salary. You will frequently transfer those funds to your tIRA. It is a good idea to also contribute to your Roth IRA (5.5k/year). After you retire, you will be able to close the SIMPLE account and you'll have just the tIRA and the Roth IRA.

Transferring simple to t ira good or bad idea?? or do a re balancing on my simple and call it a day
Transferring to the tIRA is a good idea for the lower fees. After you do it once, you'll see that it's not difficult and easily repeated. If you need help filling out the form, let us know. You should diversify your accounts as we've discussed. I think being 100% equities at your age is very risky.

Any thoughts
Did Vanguard explain how you do the transfer? Do you have to print out the transfer form, complete it and mail it in? Too bad they can't do it over the phone when the 2 accounts are both Vanguard accounts. Your employer is not involved in the transfer at all.

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jafcorrea
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by jafcorrea » Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:49 pm

Hi, first of all thanks so much for your time an advice

Now the second question emerge … I will have 2 tax deferred accounts after I am 60, and I will reduce a lot my contribution on my roth ira
While you are working and contributing to your employer's plan, you'll have a SIMPLE IRA account to receive your and your employer's contributions. The maximum contribution you can make is 12.5k and your employer contributes 3% of your salary.
You will frequently transfer those funds to your tIRA. It is a good idea to also contribute to your Roth IRA (5.5k/year). After you retire, you will be able to close the SIMPLE account and you'll have just the tIRA and the Roth IRA. .... let me see if i understand your idea ... [color=#800000]transfer the funds from my simple to my tira frequently and do NO contribution to the tira but make the max contribution to my roth ira also rebalance the roth to : 75% TSM / 10%TBM / 5% REIT / 5% TISM / 5% TIBM

Transferring simple to t ira good or bad idea?? or do a re balancing on my simple and call it a day
Transferring to the tIRA is a good idea for the lower fees. After you do it once, you'll see that it's not difficult and easily repeated. If you need help filling out the form, let us know. You should diversify your accounts as we've discussed. I think being 100% equities at your age is very risky. Agreed, I already planning in rebalance to : 75% TSM / 10%TBM / 5% REIT / 5% TISM / 5% TIBM


Any thoughts
Did Vanguard explain how you do the transfer? Do you have to print out the transfer form, complete it and mail it in? Too bad they can't do it over the phone when the 2 accounts are both Vanguard accounts. Your employer is not involved in the transfer at all. ....No I can do all online or call VG .. very easy
Thanks JC

krow36
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by krow36 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:58 pm

let me see if i understand your idea ... [color=#800000]transfer the funds from my simple to my tira frequently and do NO contribution to the tira but make the max contribution to my roth ira also rebalance the roth to : 75% TSM / 10%TBM / 5% REIT / 5% TISM / 5% TIBM

Yes you have it down. I do think you should consider having a greater percent of bonds. Maybe you had no trouble making it through the crashes of 2000-2001 and 2008-2009 without bailing out of your equity funds? If you weren't an investor then, then you don't really know how you will react to a big downturn (maybe as much 50%??). Another consideration is you don't have all that many years to recover if you want to retire in 15 years or so. An asset allocation of only 15% bonds is very aggressive and risky for a 51 year old. Perhaps you have a good pension? Or are expecting a significant windfall?

The first AA decision to make is what you want for the stock/bond ratio. I think a 60/40 ratio of stocks/bonds is more suitable to someone your age. The second decision is what ratio of domestic/international. For stocks, Vanguard thinks 40% of stocks should be international. Most BH's here prefer 0% to 30% and there's no "correct" decision--it's up to you. Most BH's here don't invest in the international bond fund although Vanguard thinks everyone should. I have a small amount of it. You should consider the REIT as an equity.

Here's how you work out your AA. I'll make some assumptions in this example that you can change.
I'll assume you want: 60/40 stock/bond, 5% of stocks in REIT, 80/20 domestic/international.
This works out to something like 43% TSM, 12% TISM, 5% REIT, 32% TBM, 8% TIBM
Last edited by krow36 on Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jafcorrea
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Re: portfolio advice

Post by jafcorrea » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:52 pm

got it :sharebeer

my only concern about bonds .. interest rate are historic low, and if Hillary wins I have a feeling that will go up in the next 8 years (Clinton was around 7.5%), like everyone say .... "interest go up, bonds go down"

but i will take your advise under consideration

thanks again
JC
Thanks JC

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TSM, TBM, TISM, TIBM, REIT still a good Portfolio for 2017??

Post by jafcorrea » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:58 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

"What do you think?

any other good Portfolio funds suggestions ?"
Thanks JC

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Re: TSM, TBM, TISM, TIBM, REIT still a good Portfolio for 2017??

Post by FillorKill » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:00 pm

jafcorrea wrote:"What do you think?

any other good Portfolio funds suggestions ?"

VBR/VIOV/VOE/IVOV/VWO/VSS

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Re: TSM, TBM, TISM, TIBM, REIT still a good Portfolio for 2017??

Post by DSInvestor » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:02 pm

I am not a fan of Total International Bond and do not hold it in my portfolio.
I hold Total Stock Market, Total International Stock Market, Total Bond Market. Keep it simple. REIT is included in Total Stock Market.

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Re: TSM, TBM, TISM, TIBM, REIT still a good Portfolio for 2017??

Post by David Jay » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:04 pm

Not with an equal (20% each) allocation.

Indicators suggest that REIT has had a great run and now faces headwinds. It can be a tilt, but something well less than 20%.
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Re: TSM, TBM, TISM, TIBM, REIT still a good Portfolio for 2017??

Post by dbr » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:07 pm

If the question is whether 2017 will be different in some way that would make one who thought the named portfolio was "good" change their mind, then the answer is no, they would not change their mind.

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Re: portfolio advice

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:43 pm

I merged jafcorrea's thread back into the first one.

jafcorrea - In order to give appropriate advice, it's best to keep the information in one spot. I see you've got your portfolio listed close to the Asking Portfolio Questions format.

One suggestion would be the Three-fund portfolio.

If you have any questions, ask them here.
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