Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

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njfastlife
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Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:16 pm

so i'm not loving her choices at a quick glance.

her current AA:

100% Domestic Equity

50% OPMSX

46% OAEIX

4% OSCAX


Her choices aren't great, imho, and there's no easy way to copy/paste them all here. but anything i should look out for specifically that Oppenheimer typically offers their 403(b) clients?

i don't see any Target Dates - which i'm personally a fan of, especially as a beginner/non-savvy investor.

i can certainly try to copy/paste if we think that's the best route.

(as a side note, if we do decide to change future contributions, would we also want to exchange the current investments?)

thank you!

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grabiner
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by grabiner » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:57 pm

You need the information about the specific funds, including expense ratios; look for the lowest expense ratios in each class.

The reason you need the specific information is that many 403(b) and 401(k) plans charge extra expenses on some funds, or use various share classes; a fund which might be a good choice with its retail cost of 0.75% could be a poor choice if the 403(b) charges 1.5% for the share class it uses or adds a 0.75% fee of its own.
Wiki David Grabiner

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:40 pm

Is your GF an employee of a public K-12 school district? If so, she may have choices much better than the Oppenheimer 403b. If she works for a non-profit and her employer has chosen Oppenheimer for the 403b provider, she's stuck with Oppenheimer.

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:50 am

krow36 wrote:Is your GF an employee of a public K-12 school district? If so, she may have choices much better than the Oppenheimer 403b. If she works for a non-profit and her employer has chosen Oppenheimer for the 403b provider, she's stuck with Oppenheimer.
yes, public K-12.

how can she find out what choices she has available? all i know is that is whom she is currently with. not sure if they gave her a choice when she enrolled or not.

thanks.

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:02 am

Look on the school district's website for the list of 403b providers. Google may help you. If you can't find it, call the district's HR office. There's usually half a dozen to as many as 50 (?!?) providers on the list. Most are usually insurance companies, some are expensive mutual fund companies like Oppenheimer, and if you're lucky there's 1 or 2 low cost MF companies like Fidelity or Vanguard.

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:32 pm

krow36 wrote:Look on the school district's website for the list of 403b providers. Google may help you. If you can't find it, call the district's HR office. There's usually half a dozen to as many as 50 (?!?) providers on the list. Most are usually insurance companies, some are expensive mutual fund companies like Oppenheimer, and if you're lucky there's 1 or 2 low cost MF companies like Fidelity or Vanguard.
here's the list:

AXA Equitable Life Insurance Company
Foresters Financial (First Investors)
Lincoln Investment Planning
MetLife
Oppenheimer Shareholder Svcs.
RiverSource Life Insurance Co of NY
The Legend Group/ADSERV
Voya Financial (Natl NY)

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by KSAL889813 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:01 pm

A lot of those look to be Variable Annuity investment vehicles which you DO NOT want. Legend is not but their fees are really high. I'm doing an American Funds fund through Legend for my wife but it's only $50 p/p so it's not adding up to much. I'd rather max out our ROTH IRA options first before dumping money into terrible 403b choices.

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:27 pm

any other thoughts here?

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:12 pm

njfastlife, it looks to me that the best of those providers is Lincoln Investment Planning (LIP). I say that after checking out LIP on the 403bcompare.com website. This is a website run by the CA State Teachers Retirement System that requires venders to submit their plans, with all expenses disclosed. Companies that sell their products nationally tend to use those same products in all the States, with the same expenses.

Lincoln Natl Life Ins. Co. sells annuity based 403b plans. Lincoln Investment Planning sells mutual fund based 403b plans. Don’t take my word for it—go to the 403bcompare.com website, under vendors, go to Lincoln Inv. Planning and select Retirement Solutions Premier. Check out the long list of very low expense Vanguard funds. For instance, VTSMX, Vanguard’s Total Stock Mkt fund, with an expense ration of 0.16% is included. Lincoln adds a “Management/Wrap Fee” of 0.90% so the total fee for VG’s TSM is 1.06%. Yes, that’s about the same as the ER of Oppenheimer’s OAEIX (1.02%). However TSM allows you to invest in all parts of the US stock market, not just the parts that Oppy’s expensive analysts think will do the best. I believe that OAEIX, an Equity Income fund, focuses on large cap value stocks, although no doubt they can stray if they want to. VG TSM includes the stocks of OAEIX as well as the stocks of the other 2 funds OPMSX (midcap) and OSCAX (small cap). It also includes large cap growth stocks which OAEIX will omit.

So if GF wants to continuing contributing to a 403b, I recommend she stop contributing to the Oppenheimer 403b and open an Ret. Soln. Premier account with LIP. The Oppy 403b money can be transferred to the Lincoln 403b. Is GF maxing her Roth IRA? She should do that, 5.5k per year at a low cost provider such as Vanguard or Fidelity, before contributing to a 403b. I believe that the 403b world for K-12 public school employees is improving, and it’s very possible her district will have lower cost providers in the future. Also if she quits her present employer, she can transfer the 403b assets to an tIRA. I think the Lincoln 403b is worth serious consideration.

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by Scott311 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:40 am

My wife was in the same boat njfastlife. On top of Oppenheimer's high ERs, they also charge 5.75% load fees. If I was your gf, I would definitely open up a Roth and max that out first. I will back Krow in saying that Lincoln is probably her best option as far as the 403b. Getting rid of the load fees on future contributions alone will be worth it. Also I will say that in my wifes district, so long as the employee's have an open 403b account, the district will occasionally make one-time contributions to the 403b plans as budget, etc allows. Not saying that's going to happen in your GFs district but if it did, Oppenheimer would get a nice chunk of that before it even entered her account. Good luck njfastlife!

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:54 pm

some good stuff here. she doesn't really have any other options i guess?


so, $5500 into a Roth IRA.

then look into Lincoln (probably a Vanguard fund if offered).

it doesn't make sense NOT to take advantage of a 403b does it? for instance, just throw money into a taxable account instead?

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:14 pm

bump for some more replies.

trying to think if it's better to forgo a 403b entirely.

like...what's the benefit of it vs. just fully funding a Roth IRA and a taxable Vanguard account?

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:10 pm

Have you read the Wiki on this question? https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Priorit ... nvestments
The decision to choose between taxable saving for retirement, and a fairly expensive 403b is a bit tougher than usual. GF and you should take into consideration:
1) she may quit teaching, or move to another district in the future and be able to move the Lincoln 403b assets into an IRA at a low cost provider.
2) her school district may add a low-cost provider to their 403b list and she can move her Lincoln 403b assets to it.
3) I think it’s highly likely that her Oppenheimer funds will underperform Vanguard’s low-cost index funds.
4) the regulation of 401k's and IRAs by the IRS and Dept. of Labor has been improving and I think it’s likely that the 403b scene will follow one of these years (depending on the political situation of course).

If I were her, I would move her 403b from Oppenheimer to Lincoln. It may take a month or so. GF and you can then decide to continue to contribute to the 403b, or start a taxable account for retirement.

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:16 pm

silly question:

if she wants to STOP contributing to the Oppenheimer plan and roll it into the Lincoln (on top of the check she received from Mass Mutual from a previous employer), how would she best do this?

i'm thinking she needs to cancel contributions for the time being via her benefits center, then request check from Oppenheimer, then open Lincoln account and send them the checks?

correct me if i'm wrong. thanks.

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:41 pm

njfastlife wrote:silly question:
if she wants to STOP contributing to the Oppenheimer plan and roll it into the Lincoln (on top of the check she received from Mass Mutual from a previous employer), how would she best do this?

i'm thinking she needs to cancel contributions for the time being via her benefits center, then request check from Oppenheimer, then open Lincoln account and send them the checks?

correct me if i'm wrong. thanks.
Stopping her contributions to the expensive Oppy 403b is a good idea. The next step should be to set up a 403b with Lincoln. If there's a Third Party Administrator involved, that has to be dealt with also. Once the account is set up, she can resume contributions.

Then she can work on moving her Oppy assets to Lincoln, which can take weeks or even months. It usually works better to get the receiving provider to pull the assets out of the previous provider, rather than trying to push the assets out of previous provider. It's possible that Oppy will also require forms to be filed.

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:54 pm

You should also take a look at this thread on the Lincoln plan. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=175295
It's not clear what it takes to get the 0.80% fee removed, but it seems to be possible.

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:50 pm

njfastlife wrote:if she wants to STOP contributing to the Oppenheimer plan and roll it into the Lincoln (on top of the check she received from Mass Mutual from a previous employer), how would she best do this?
Is she holding a rollover check from a Mass Mutual 403b? If so, she has 60 days from it's date to get it to her present 403b provider. I wouldn't wait around on that but get it to Oppenheimer ASAP. After 60 days, it becomes taxable income and there's a 10% penalty. Setting up a new 403b plan with a different provider often takes weeks, sometimes months! If you do succeed in a quick set-up at a new better provider, the transfer of the Oppy funds including the Mass Mutual funds can take place soon.

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by Nate79 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:49 am

My wife works for the state of Oregon and Voya manages the Oregon savings plan 457b account. They have good low cost options available in her plan.

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:34 pm

Nate79 wrote:My wife works for the state of Oregon and Voya manages the Oregon savings plan 457b account. They have good low cost options available in her plan.
When you look up Voya on the 403bcompare.com website, you find that they offer 4 variable annuity based 403b plans, an equity index annuity, a fixed annuity and 1 mutual fund based 403b plan. In the mutual fund based plan, the large cap index fund has an ER of 0.65% with an administration fee of 0.65% for a total of 1.30%. This is the Voya 403b that OP’s GF has access to at her school district. :(

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:08 pm

krow36 wrote:
njfastlife wrote:if she wants to STOP contributing to the Oppenheimer plan and roll it into the Lincoln (on top of the check she received from Mass Mutual from a previous employer), how would she best do this?
Is she holding a rollover check from a Mass Mutual 403b? If so, she has 60 days from it's date to get it to her present 403b provider. I wouldn't wait around on that but get it to Oppenheimer ASAP. After 60 days, it becomes taxable income and there's a 10% penalty. Setting up a new 403b plan with a different provider often takes weeks, sometimes months! If you do succeed in a quick set-up at a new better provider, the transfer of the Oppy funds including the Mass Mutual funds can take place soon.
yes, she has the rollover check and has had it for about 25 days now...

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:26 pm

I would not send the check to either the old or new 403b provider, but get it into a traditional IRA at Vanguard or Fidelity. Call them and have her set up the IRA (or do it on the internet). These 2 providors have the lowest fees, and she is free to choose any provider, so either one is much better than any 403b provider. Unless one is lucky and has one of them for the 403b provider.

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:12 pm

hey guys bumping this old thread. she now has all of her monies sitting in the Oppenheimer funds. i had her stop contributions and am thinking we should move it into the Lincoln Plan if we all seem to agree this is the best bet.

unless we can roll all of this money into some type of Vanguard IRA but that i am unaware of and am obviously more than welcoming to advice in that regard.

thanks!

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:10 pm

Did you check out this thread that I mentioned above? viewtopic.php?f=1&t=175295
Using the Lincoln Retirement SOLUTIONS Participant-Directed Platform looks like a good deal if she can get it. There's been several more recent posts to the thread. And it is being offered in NJ. Give a larger (regional?) Lincoln office a call--it might take persistence. It's strictly an over-the-internet plan with no local reps to help out. The pdf application form that you get from the regional office states the fees and other conditions. The plan also can be used for both 403b and 457, traditional and Roth, if the district allows it. Does the district use a Third Party Administrator (TPA)?

This certainly looks like your GF's best option and is worth pursuing.

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:02 pm

UPDATE:

1. ceasing further contribution to 403b

2. moving Oppenheimer assets to Lincoln

3. opening Vanguard Roth IRA


question: any tips on what to invest in the Roth? we are not risk-averse but not super risky either. would it be absurd to invest in VTSMX?

thanks all!

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by itstoomuch » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:11 pm

JMHO. once you get involved in your GF/BF long range financial planning, the you might as well enjoy the future results. Get Married :oops: :annoyed :moneybag already. :mrgreen:
Rev012718; 4 Incm stream buckets: SS+pension; dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rentals. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax TBT%. Early SS. FundRatio (FR) >1.1 67/70yo

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by wishful_thinking » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:19 pm

My Roth IRA at Vanguard is in a Target Date Fund. Low ER, rebalances itself, and no need to overly complicate things. As my balance grows, I plan to create my own 3 fund portfolio with admiral shares, but for now the Target Date fund makes the most sense for me, and might for your GF too.

Did you ever mention whether your GF has access to a 457 plan in addition to the 403b? I've recently gone through the process of looking into my options (I'm in MA) and the 457 was better than my 403b options so I'm contributing to that first. Contact HR and ask what the providers are for a 457 if you haven't yet. If she doesn't have access to a 457, then I agree Lincoln is the way to go and the thread krow already linked to has lots of great information about that provider.

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:10 pm

njfastlife wrote:UPDATE:
1. ceasing further contribution to 403b
2. moving Oppenheimer assets to Lincoln
3. opening Vanguard Roth IRA
question: any tips on what to invest in the Roth? we are not risk-averse but not super risky either. would it be absurd to invest in VTSMX?
I'm glad you took care of the old Mass Mutual 403b check. Have you checked out the Lincoln Participant Directed 403b plan yet? If you are in NJ, it should be available to GF. Check out that thread on it--folks keep adding posts to it. Make the call to a Lincoln regional office and ask them email you the link to the PDF application form which has the only real information on the DIY plan that they've put out. The plan allows both 403b and 457 plans. The 457 plan has some advantages over the 403b plan. GF's Oppenheimer 403b money could stay in the Lincoln 403b and she could contribute to the 457, or to both.

The first step in avoiding those high fees at Oppy is to establish an account with Lincoln. Hopefully it's the DIY option, not the Retirement Solutions Premier option which tacks on 0.90% to Vanguard's index funds' ER. After the account is set up, you can work to move her Oppy account's money to it. That can take a month or 2.

No, it's not absurd use VTSMX (TSM) in the Roth. Using a Target Retirement fund also makes sense. Once you and GF are married, you really should consider all your accounts as one big portfolio. Of course the contents of Roth IRAs, 401k's, 403b's and 457 plans can be changed without any income tax consequences.

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:51 pm

krow36 wrote:
njfastlife wrote:UPDATE:
1. ceasing further contribution to 403b
2. moving Oppenheimer assets to Lincoln
3. opening Vanguard Roth IRA
question: any tips on what to invest in the Roth? we are not risk-averse but not super risky either. would it be absurd to invest in VTSMX?
I'm glad you took care of the old Mass Mutual 403b check. Have you checked out the Lincoln Participant Directed 403b plan yet? If you are in NJ, it should be available to GF. Check out that thread on it--folks keep adding posts to it. Make the call to a Lincoln regional office and ask them email you the link to the PDF application form which has the only real information on the DIY plan that they've put out. The plan allows both 403b and 457 plans. The 457 plan has some advantages over the 403b plan. GF's Oppenheimer 403b money could stay in the Lincoln 403b and she could contribute to the 457, or to both.

The first step in avoiding those high fees at Oppy is to establish an account with Lincoln. Hopefully it's the DIY option, not the Retirement Solutions Premier option which tacks on 0.90% to Vanguard's index funds' ER. After the account is set up, you can work to move her Oppy account's money to it. That can take a month or 2.

No, it's not absurd use VTSMX (TSM) in the Roth. Using a Target Retirement fund also makes sense. Once you and GF are married, you really should consider all your accounts as one big portfolio. Of course the contents of Roth IRAs, 401k's, 403b's and 457 plans can be changed without any income tax consequences.
hey krow - we are in NY for the time being (but potentially back to NJ in due time). hoping it's available to us up here as well.

i am adding some questions that i also posted in the Lincoln thread:

question(s):

1. is there any harm in completely ceasing contributions to a 403b while we go through the process of moving the money over to Lincoln?

1(a). as an aside, we plan to open a Roth IRA (with Vanguard) and contribute the maximum ($5,500) yearly.

2. if we decide NOT to go with Lincoln can we roll the entire 403b into a Vanguard IRA of some sort? is this a bad idea?

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:32 pm

There is absolutely no harm in stopping contributions in a 403b. Good idea to stop contributing to the Oppy 403b as soon as she has something better set up! Or sooner if she wants. Opening a Roth IRA at Vanguard is also a good idea!

GF can roll over her Oppy 403b account to an IRA IF she is no longer employed by that plan’s “sponsor”, that is, she has quit that district. If she is still employed by the same school district, she is restricted to transferring the 403b account to one of the other provider's 403b on the district’s 403b provider list.

So GF and you have been and are now in NY state? And we should disregard your username? If that’s the case, GF should be aware that NY state has an excellent 457 plan. It’s very low cost. 457 plans have some advantages over 403b or other employer based plans for those interested in early retirement. https://www.nysdcp.com/tcm/nysdcp/stati ... ns.pdf?r=1 This 457 plan allows the moving of 403b accounts from previous employers into a subaccount in the 457. It remains a 403b but can use the very low cost funds of the 457. Check with her district to see if she can use the NY state 457, also called a Deferred Compensation Plan (DCP).

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:09 pm

just a follow-up here, is it possible and prudent to withdraw from the 403b entirely and roll it entirely into a Vanguard IRA?

we now have a Roth IRA opened for her, but might it make sense to open a traditional IRA as well and just roll the funds over from the 403b?

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:15 am

njfastlife wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:09 pm
just a follow-up here, is it possible and prudent to withdraw from the 403b entirely and roll it entirely into a Vanguard IRA?

we now have a Roth IRA opened for her, but might it make sense to open a traditional IRA as well and just roll the funds over from the 403b?
Yes, if she is no longer working for the NJ school district, she can rollover the Oppy 403b to a Vanguard TIRA. If it's rolled over to a Roth IRA, she will have to pay income taxes on that amount. Is she working, and if so is it for a school district? If she's not working, she may be in the 0% bracket or the 10% bracket, and would be a great time to go from a TIRA to a Roth IRA. :)

She can also go from a TIRA to a Roth in steps to spread out the tax hit if she's working--some this year, the rest next year. Or she can leave it as a TIRA--nothing wrong with that. In any case, she should call up Vanguard and have them start the process.

denovo
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by denovo » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:26 am

njfastlife wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:32 pm
krow36 wrote:Look on the school district's website for the list of 403b providers. Google may help you. If you can't find it, call the district's HR office. There's usually half a dozen to as many as 50 (?!?) providers on the list. Most are usually insurance companies, some are expensive mutual fund companies like Oppenheimer, and if you're lucky there's 1 or 2 low cost MF companies like Fidelity or Vanguard.
here's the list:

AXA Equitable Life Insurance Company
Foresters Financial (First Investors)
Lincoln Investment Planning
MetLife
Oppenheimer Shareholder Svcs.
RiverSource Life Insurance Co of NY
The Legend Group/ADSERV
Voya Financial (Natl NY)
If she is a teacher , she may have 457 options available. Those sometimes have better rates. Also do they provide any matching? If not, see if she is eligible for a deductible Traditional IRA. That should be her primary vehicle of saving.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:14 am

krow36 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:15 am
njfastlife wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:09 pm
just a follow-up here, is it possible and prudent to withdraw from the 403b entirely and roll it entirely into a Vanguard IRA?

we now have a Roth IRA opened for her, but might it make sense to open a traditional IRA as well and just roll the funds over from the 403b?
Yes, if she is no longer working for the NJ school district, she can rollover the Oppy 403b to a Vanguard TIRA. If it's rolled over to a Roth IRA, she will have to pay income taxes on that amount. Is she working, and if so is it for a school district? If she's not working, she may be in the 0% bracket or the 10% bracket, and would be a great time to go from a TIRA to a Roth IRA. :)

She can also go from a TIRA to a Roth in steps to spread out the tax hit if she's working--some this year, the rest next year. Or she can leave it as a TIRA--nothing wrong with that. In any case, she should call up Vanguard and have them start the process.

hey krow - she is still working. for a NY district.

what's the best bet here?

thanks!

krow36
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:41 pm

The first step is to find the list of providors for her district. It’s usually on the district’s website. Or it may be on the website of a Third Party Administrator that the district hires to help manage the 403b and 457 plans. If you can’t find the lists on the district’s website, call the district’s HR office. Post the lists here and we can help you decide which vendor would be best.

K-12 school district employees in NY state have an excellent, low-cost 457 plan available to them. If it’s on the list, that would be a very good choice for a 457 plan. https://www.nysdcp.com/iApp/tcm/nysdcp/about/index.jsp If she is planning to return to NJ soon, she could roll the 457 plan into an IRA after she leaves the district.

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:39 pm

krow36 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:41 pm
The first step is to find the list of providors for her district. It’s usually on the district’s website. Or it may be on the website of a Third Party Administrator that the district hires to help manage the 403b and 457 plans. If you can’t find the lists on the district’s website, call the district’s HR office. Post the lists here and we can help you decide which vendor would be best.

K-12 school district employees in NY state have an excellent, low-cost 457 plan available to them. If it’s on the list, that would be a very good choice for a 457 plan. https://www.nysdcp.com/iApp/tcm/nysdcp/about/index.jsp If she is planning to return to NJ soon, she could roll the 457 plan into an IRA after she leaves the district.
yes, this is apparently available:

https://www.nysdcp.com/tcm/nysdcp/stati ... 20.pdf?r=1

any thoughts as which to choose from the above list?

VWENX looks good, if not a bit aggressive for a typical Boglehead.

thanks!

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:35 pm

Yes, Vanguard's Wellington is an very good balanced fund and suitable for her 457 account. That assumes she is OK with the fund's asset allocation of about 60-70% stocks and 40-30% bonds. A 60/40 AA is not really "aggressive", in fact it's usually considered a moderate AA, depending on age of course. For someone in their 20s or 30s, it's a very reasonable AA. One's AA is a personal decision, and she/you can certainly consider an AA of 60/40 too aggressive.

She should also consider one of the dated target retirement funds. They are much more diversified and she could pick one that has the desired AA (rather than using the expected year of retirement).

Although Wellington is a managed fund rather than an index fund, it has a number of BH fans, including John Bogle himself. Ideally she should consider all her accounts together as one portfolio. What is she using in her Vanguard Roth IRA?

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by JW-Retired » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:08 pm

njfastlife wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:32 pm
here's the list:
AXA Equitable Life Insurance Company
Foresters Financial (First Investors)
Lincoln Investment Planning
MetLife
Oppenheimer Shareholder Svcs.
RiverSource Life Insurance Co of NY
The Legend Group/ADSERV
Voya Financial (Natl NY)
The trouble with this list is it doesn't tell us much of anything about the actual fees charged. These depend on the size of the employee fund assets your employer brings to the table, and their use of that in negotiating fees. My Megacorp employer 401k has had a series of admin companies, the latest being Voya, and they were always rock bottom (Vanguard or better) costs because we were big and our negotiators knew what they were doing. I'm wild guessing your employer might not be getting anything close to that kind of deal. :oops:

Anyway, to know what to choose you have to get the costs your own employer has negotiated.
JW
Retired at Last

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:14 pm

JW, the OP is dealing with a K-12 school district, which are not involved in vetting the multiple vendors they allow or the vendor's offerings. Yeah, hard to believe. These are non-ERISA 403b and 457 plans. In this thread started last year, the OP and GF were in NJ and that list was for her NJ school district. They are now in NY and we don't have a list for her current district yet. However the State of NY has an excellent low-cost 457 plan that apparently is on her district's 457 list.

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:25 am

krow36 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:35 pm
Yes, Vanguard's Wellington is an very good balanced fund and suitable for her 457 account. That assumes she is OK with the fund's asset allocation of about 60-70% stocks and 40-30% bonds. A 60/40 AA is not really "aggressive", in fact it's usually considered a moderate AA, depending on age of course. For someone in their 20s or 30s, it's a very reasonable AA. One's AA is a personal decision, and she/you can certainly consider an AA of 60/40 too aggressive.

She should also consider one of the dated target retirement funds. They are much more diversified and she could pick one that has the desired AA (rather than using the expected year of retirement).

Although Wellington is a managed fund rather than an index fund, it has a number of BH fans, including John Bogle himself. Ideally she should consider all her accounts together as one portfolio. What is she using in her Vanguard Roth IRA?
Vanguard Target Date 2035

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:26 am

krow36 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:14 pm
JW, the OP is dealing with a K-12 school district, which are not involved in vetting the multiple vendors they allow or the vendor's offerings. Yeah, hard to believe. These are non-ERISA 403b and 457 plans. In this thread started last year, the OP and GF were in NJ and that list was for her NJ school district. They are now in NY and we don't have a list for her current district yet. However the State of NY has an excellent low-cost 457 plan that apparently is on her district's 457 list.
sorry, my posting may be confusing but she's always been in the same NY district and the list i provided is from her current K-12 school.

thanks.

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:27 pm

Sorry, I assumed your username indicated that you were in NJ when you first posted. If she has been in NY, at the same school district, that changes what she can do with the Oppenheimer 403b. She cannot move that account to an IRA unless she has changed districts. She can move it to another 403b providor if that providor is on her district’s 403b list.

The only providor on the 403b list that looks promising is Lincoln Investment and you/she will have to make some inquires. Lincoln Investment has a DIY plan that they allow teachers to use in NJ and in some districts in some other states such as NY. You need to call a regional office of Lincoln lInvestment, not just a local rep, and ask for the application form for their Lincoln Investment SOLUTIONS Participant-Directed Platform. It’s not possible to look up this plan on the Lincoln Investment website—the only info on it is on the application form. They charge $60 per year and allow the use of low-cost Vanguard Admiral class funds. This is an internet and telephone based plan and does not involve a local rep. This is the same Lincoln plan I referred to last March. It’s a much better plan than the SOLUTIONS Premier plan I suggested back in 2016 which adds 0.90%. See viewtopic.php?f=1&t=175295

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:49 pm

krow36 wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:27 pm
Sorry, I assumed your username indicated that you were in NJ when you first posted. If she has been in NY, at the same school district, that changes what she can do with the Oppenheimer 403b. She cannot move that account to an IRA unless she has changed districts. She can move it to another 403b providor if that providor is on her district’s 403b list.

The only providor on the 403b list that looks promising is Lincoln Investment and you/she will have to make some inquires. Lincoln Investment has a DIY plan that they allow teachers to use in NJ and in some districts in some other states such as NY. You need to call a regional office of Lincoln lInvestment, not just a local rep, and ask for the application form for their Lincoln Investment SOLUTIONS Participant-Directed Platform. It’s not possible to look up this plan on the Lincoln Investment website—the only info on it is on the application form. They charge $60 per year and allow the use of low-cost Vanguard Admiral class funds. This is an internet and telephone based plan and does not involve a local rep. This is the same Lincoln plan I referred to last March. It’s a much better plan than the SOLUTIONS Premier plan I suggested back in 2016 which adds 0.90%. See viewtopic.php?f=1&t=175295
thank you, we will inquire - but is this a better idea than the 457?

we were about to rollover her 403b into the 457.

thanks for your patience and assistance along the way!

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:06 pm

njfastlife wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:49 pm
thank you, we will inquire - but is this a better idea than the 457?

we were about to rollover her 403b into the 457.

thanks for your patience and assistance along the way!
If her 403b is with her current employer, she can't do a rollover to that employer's 457. If the 403b was with a previous employer, it would be possible. It would be kept in a separate account and would still be a 403b, but would be able to be invested in the funds of the 457.

So the Lincoln Investment DIY is the best option for getting out of the high-fee Oppenheimer 403b plan. She's lucky to have at least one good possibility, which didn't exist until recently. With her district's lousy choice of vendors, she certainly deserves a break. I suspect that the Lincoln Investment DIY plan exists in order to slow down the 403b reform movement. Good luck! :happy

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:53 pm

krow36 wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:06 pm
njfastlife wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:49 pm
thank you, we will inquire - but is this a better idea than the 457?

we were about to rollover her 403b into the 457.

thanks for your patience and assistance along the way!
If her 403b is with her current employer, she can't do a rollover to that employer's 457. If the 403b was with a previous employer, it would be possible. It would be kept in a separate account and would still be a 403b, but would be able to be invested in the funds of the 457.

So the Lincoln Investment DIY is the best option for getting out of the high-fee Oppenheimer 403b plan. She's lucky to have at least one good possibility, which didn't exist until recently. With her district's lousy choice of vendors, she certainly deserves a break. I suspect that the Lincoln Investment DIY plan exists in order to slow down the 403b reform movement. Good luck! :happy
i had no idea. thank you - we will call Lincoln tomorrow.

last question, i think:

is the low-cost Lincoln option better than just rolling the 403b into a Vanguard IRA?

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:33 am

njfastlife wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:53 pm
is the low-cost Lincoln option better than just rolling the 403b into a Vanguard IRA?
She is not allowed to rollover her employer sponsored 403b to an IRA unless she leaves that employer. I thought she had, but I was mistaken. Sorry for the confusion.

Her best bet for escaping the Oppy high fees is to be able to transfer the money to the DIY Lincoln plan.

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:45 pm

krow36 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:33 am
njfastlife wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:53 pm
is the low-cost Lincoln option better than just rolling the 403b into a Vanguard IRA?
She is not allowed to rollover her employer sponsored 403b to an IRA unless she leaves that employer. I thought she had, but I was mistaken. Sorry for the confusion.

Her best bet for escaping the Oppy high fees is to be able to transfer the money to the DIY Lincoln plan.
so...unfortunately it appears the DIY Lincoln plan is not available in her district "nor in entirety of NY state" according to the rep at Lincoln i spoke to.

what are my options now?

cease contributing to the Oppy and just contribute to an IRA (Roth with Vanguard currently)?

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:01 pm

If you talked to a local rep, then you may not have received informed information. It’s suggested to talk to someone in a Lincoln Investment Group regional office, not to a local rep. Several BH posters in NY have been able to use the Participant-Directed Platform. Here’s an incomplete list:
A440, since Oct 2015, NJ
coolstavi, since Nov? 2016, IL
ValleyBreeze, since Dec 2016, unknown state
GrandMasterBlaster, available, NY
Jebjebitz, since Apr 2017, NJ
thedeadlybishop, Jul 2017, Chicago, IL
mrsff, Sep 2017, NY
You could send GrandMasterBlaster and mrsff a Private Msg and ask them who they got their permission from.

IF it turns out that your GF is not allowed to use Lincoln’s Participant-Directed Platform, she has 2 expensive choices for her 403. Either use Oppenheimer class A funds with loads and high ERs (or Retirement class funds with no loads and even higher ERs), or use Lincoln’s Premier Solutions plan with a high mgt/wrap fee of 1.25% and Vanguard’s very low ERs and a $60/yr admin fee. If she stops contributing to the 3 class A load funds in her Oppy account, there will be no new loads, just the weighted ER of about 1.08% and the annual $30 fee custodial fee. I much prefer Vanguard’s index funds to Oppy’s actively managed funds, although that option may be a bit more expensive.

I suggest that she fully fund her IRA every year, either the traditional or the Roth. Then she should sign up for and use the excellent, low-cost NY state 457 plan and contribute as much as possible. Her 403b account with Oppenheimer (or the Lincoln Premier Solutions if she transfers) should not be funded further.

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:22 am

krow36 wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:01 pm
If you talked to a local rep, then you may not have received informed information. It’s suggested to talk to someone in a Lincoln Investment Group regional office, not to a local rep. Several BH posters in NY have been able to use the Participant-Directed Platform. Here’s an incomplete list:
A440, since Oct 2015, NJ
coolstavi, since Nov? 2016, IL
ValleyBreeze, since Dec 2016, unknown state
GrandMasterBlaster, available, NY
Jebjebitz, since Apr 2017, NJ
thedeadlybishop, Jul 2017, Chicago, IL
mrsff, Sep 2017, NY
You could send GrandMasterBlaster and mrsff a Private Msg and ask them who they got their permission from.

IF it turns out that your GF is not allowed to use Lincoln’s Participant-Directed Platform, she has 2 expensive choices for her 403. Either use Oppenheimer class A funds with loads and high ERs (or Retirement class funds with no loads and even higher ERs), or use Lincoln’s Premier Solutions plan with a high mgt/wrap fee of 1.25% and Vanguard’s very low ERs and a $60/yr admin fee. If she stops contributing to the 3 class A load funds in her Oppy account, there will be no new loads, just the weighted ER of about 1.08% and the annual $30 fee custodial fee. I much prefer Vanguard’s index funds to Oppy’s actively managed funds, although that option may be a bit more expensive.

I suggest that she fully fund her IRA every year, either the traditional or the Roth. Then she should sign up for and use the excellent, low-cost NY state 457 plan and contribute as much as possible. Her 403b account with Oppenheimer (or the Lincoln Premier Solutions if she transfers) should not be funded further.
pm'd a few of them. hoping one notices this and replies here or to my PM.

still nothing. thanks.

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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by krow36 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:39 pm

Good luck with the PMs. A PM generates an email unless the default setting is opted out of. Did you talk to the local Lincoln rep? Or to a regional Lincoln office?

You haven’t mentioned how much your GF is able to contribute annually. Is it more than 18.5k (to state 457) plus 5.5k (to IRA)? Does she want to contribute to a 403b in addition? If not, I think it might be best to just let the Oppenheimer 403b alone and let it grow. She has paid the front-end loads and if she no longer contributes, there will be no further loads as long as she doesn’t make any changes. Make sure the Oppy rep doesn’t have the authority to make changes without her permission. The weighted expense ratio is high (~1.08%). How large is this account? Are there any plans to quit this district? She should ask her district to add a provider of low-cost index funds to their 403b list (such as Fidelity, Vanguard or Aspire).

njfastlife
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Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Post by njfastlife » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:34 pm

krow36 wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:39 pm
Good luck with the PMs. A PM generates an email unless the default setting is opted out of. Did you talk to the local Lincoln rep? Or to a regional Lincoln office?

You haven’t mentioned how much your GF is able to contribute annually. Is it more than 18.5k (to state 457) plus 5.5k (to IRA)? Does she want to contribute to a 403b in addition? If not, I think it might be best to just let the Oppenheimer 403b alone and let it grow. She has paid the front-end loads and if she no longer contributes, there will be no further loads as long as she doesn’t make any changes. Make sure the Oppy rep doesn’t have the authority to make changes without her permission. The weighted expense ratio is high (~1.08%). How large is this account? Are there any plans to quit this district? She should ask her district to add a provider of low-cost index funds to their 403b list (such as Fidelity, Vanguard or Aspire).
thanks for the response. no, for the time being she will not be able to max her retirement accounts (sans her Roth) due to both of us saving for a home.

she has ~$35K in the Oppy and hasn't contributed in almost a year.

i am making sure she makes her Vanguard Roth IRA.

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