Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here.
njfastlife
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby njfastlife » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:16 pm

so i'm not loving her choices at a quick glance.

her current AA:

100% Domestic Equity

50% OPMSX

46% OAEIX

4% OSCAX


Her choices aren't great, imho, and there's no easy way to copy/paste them all here. but anything i should look out for specifically that Oppenheimer typically offers their 403(b) clients?

i don't see any Target Dates - which i'm personally a fan of, especially as a beginner/non-savvy investor.

i can certainly try to copy/paste if we think that's the best route.

(as a side note, if we do decide to change future contributions, would we also want to exchange the current investments?)

thank you!

User avatar
grabiner
Advisory Board
Posts: 19883
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:58 pm
Location: Columbia, MD

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby grabiner » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:57 pm

You need the information about the specific funds, including expense ratios; look for the lowest expense ratios in each class.

The reason you need the specific information is that many 403(b) and 401(k) plans charge extra expenses on some funds, or use various share classes; a fund which might be a good choice with its retail cost of 0.75% could be a poor choice if the 403(b) charges 1.5% for the share class it uses or adds a 0.75% fee of its own.
David Grabiner

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:40 pm

Is your GF an employee of a public K-12 school district? If so, she may have choices much better than the Oppenheimer 403b. If she works for a non-profit and her employer has chosen Oppenheimer for the 403b provider, she's stuck with Oppenheimer.

njfastlife
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby njfastlife » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:50 am

krow36 wrote:Is your GF an employee of a public K-12 school district? If so, she may have choices much better than the Oppenheimer 403b. If she works for a non-profit and her employer has chosen Oppenheimer for the 403b provider, she's stuck with Oppenheimer.

yes, public K-12.

how can she find out what choices she has available? all i know is that is whom she is currently with. not sure if they gave her a choice when she enrolled or not.

thanks.

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:02 am

Look on the school district's website for the list of 403b providers. Google may help you. If you can't find it, call the district's HR office. There's usually half a dozen to as many as 50 (?!?) providers on the list. Most are usually insurance companies, some are expensive mutual fund companies like Oppenheimer, and if you're lucky there's 1 or 2 low cost MF companies like Fidelity or Vanguard.

njfastlife
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby njfastlife » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:32 pm

krow36 wrote:Look on the school district's website for the list of 403b providers. Google may help you. If you can't find it, call the district's HR office. There's usually half a dozen to as many as 50 (?!?) providers on the list. Most are usually insurance companies, some are expensive mutual fund companies like Oppenheimer, and if you're lucky there's 1 or 2 low cost MF companies like Fidelity or Vanguard.

here's the list:

AXA Equitable Life Insurance Company
Foresters Financial (First Investors)
Lincoln Investment Planning
MetLife
Oppenheimer Shareholder Svcs.
RiverSource Life Insurance Co of NY
The Legend Group/ADSERV
Voya Financial (Natl NY)

KSAL889813
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 1:04 pm
Location: Kendall Park, NJ

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby KSAL889813 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:01 pm

A lot of those look to be Variable Annuity investment vehicles which you DO NOT want. Legend is not but their fees are really high. I'm doing an American Funds fund through Legend for my wife but it's only $50 p/p so it's not adding up to much. I'd rather max out our ROTH IRA options first before dumping money into terrible 403b choices.

njfastlife
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby njfastlife » Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:27 pm

any other thoughts here?

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:12 pm

njfastlife, it looks to me that the best of those providers is Lincoln Investment Planning (LIP). I say that after checking out LIP on the 403bcompare.com website. This is a website run by the CA State Teachers Retirement System that requires venders to submit their plans, with all expenses disclosed. Companies that sell their products nationally tend to use those same products in all the States, with the same expenses.

Lincoln Natl Life Ins. Co. sells annuity based 403b plans. Lincoln Investment Planning sells mutual fund based 403b plans. Don’t take my word for it—go to the 403bcompare.com website, under vendors, go to Lincoln Inv. Planning and select Retirement Solutions Premier. Check out the long list of very low expense Vanguard funds. For instance, VTSMX, Vanguard’s Total Stock Mkt fund, with an expense ration of 0.16% is included. Lincoln adds a “Management/Wrap Fee” of 0.90% so the total fee for VG’s TSM is 1.06%. Yes, that’s about the same as the ER of Oppenheimer’s OAEIX (1.02%). However TSM allows you to invest in all parts of the US stock market, not just the parts that Oppy’s expensive analysts think will do the best. I believe that OAEIX, an Equity Income fund, focuses on large cap value stocks, although no doubt they can stray if they want to. VG TSM includes the stocks of OAEIX as well as the stocks of the other 2 funds OPMSX (midcap) and OSCAX (small cap). It also includes large cap growth stocks which OAEIX will omit.

So if GF wants to continuing contributing to a 403b, I recommend she stop contributing to the Oppenheimer 403b and open an Ret. Soln. Premier account with LIP. The Oppy 403b money can be transferred to the Lincoln 403b. Is GF maxing her Roth IRA? She should do that, 5.5k per year at a low cost provider such as Vanguard or Fidelity, before contributing to a 403b. I believe that the 403b world for K-12 public school employees is improving, and it’s very possible her district will have lower cost providers in the future. Also if she quits her present employer, she can transfer the 403b assets to an tIRA. I think the Lincoln 403b is worth serious consideration.

Scott311
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:10 am
Location: MI

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby Scott311 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:40 am

My wife was in the same boat njfastlife. On top of Oppenheimer's high ERs, they also charge 5.75% load fees. If I was your gf, I would definitely open up a Roth and max that out first. I will back Krow in saying that Lincoln is probably her best option as far as the 403b. Getting rid of the load fees on future contributions alone will be worth it. Also I will say that in my wifes district, so long as the employee's have an open 403b account, the district will occasionally make one-time contributions to the 403b plans as budget, etc allows. Not saying that's going to happen in your GFs district but if it did, Oppenheimer would get a nice chunk of that before it even entered her account. Good luck njfastlife!

njfastlife
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby njfastlife » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:54 pm

some good stuff here. she doesn't really have any other options i guess?


so, $5500 into a Roth IRA.

then look into Lincoln (probably a Vanguard fund if offered).

it doesn't make sense NOT to take advantage of a 403b does it? for instance, just throw money into a taxable account instead?

njfastlife
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby njfastlife » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:14 pm

bump for some more replies.

trying to think if it's better to forgo a 403b entirely.

like...what's the benefit of it vs. just fully funding a Roth IRA and a taxable Vanguard account?

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:10 pm

Have you read the Wiki on this question? https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Priorit ... nvestments
The decision to choose between taxable saving for retirement, and a fairly expensive 403b is a bit tougher than usual. GF and you should take into consideration:
1) she may quit teaching, or move to another district in the future and be able to move the Lincoln 403b assets into an IRA at a low cost provider.
2) her school district may add a low-cost provider to their 403b list and she can move her Lincoln 403b assets to it.
3) I think it’s highly likely that her Oppenheimer funds will underperform Vanguard’s low-cost index funds.
4) the regulation of 401k's and IRAs by the IRS and Dept. of Labor has been improving and I think it’s likely that the 403b scene will follow one of these years (depending on the political situation of course).

If I were her, I would move her 403b from Oppenheimer to Lincoln. It may take a month or so. GF and you can then decide to continue to contribute to the 403b, or start a taxable account for retirement.

njfastlife
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby njfastlife » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:16 pm

silly question:

if she wants to STOP contributing to the Oppenheimer plan and roll it into the Lincoln (on top of the check she received from Mass Mutual from a previous employer), how would she best do this?

i'm thinking she needs to cancel contributions for the time being via her benefits center, then request check from Oppenheimer, then open Lincoln account and send them the checks?

correct me if i'm wrong. thanks.

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:41 pm

njfastlife wrote:silly question:
if she wants to STOP contributing to the Oppenheimer plan and roll it into the Lincoln (on top of the check she received from Mass Mutual from a previous employer), how would she best do this?

i'm thinking she needs to cancel contributions for the time being via her benefits center, then request check from Oppenheimer, then open Lincoln account and send them the checks?

correct me if i'm wrong. thanks.

Stopping her contributions to the expensive Oppy 403b is a good idea. The next step should be to set up a 403b with Lincoln. If there's a Third Party Administrator involved, that has to be dealt with also. Once the account is set up, she can resume contributions.

Then she can work on moving her Oppy assets to Lincoln, which can take weeks or even months. It usually works better to get the receiving provider to pull the assets out of the previous provider, rather than trying to push the assets out of previous provider. It's possible that Oppy will also require forms to be filed.

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:54 pm

You should also take a look at this thread on the Lincoln plan. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=175295
It's not clear what it takes to get the 0.80% fee removed, but it seems to be possible.

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:50 pm

njfastlife wrote:if she wants to STOP contributing to the Oppenheimer plan and roll it into the Lincoln (on top of the check she received from Mass Mutual from a previous employer), how would she best do this?

Is she holding a rollover check from a Mass Mutual 403b? If so, she has 60 days from it's date to get it to her present 403b provider. I wouldn't wait around on that but get it to Oppenheimer ASAP. After 60 days, it becomes taxable income and there's a 10% penalty. Setting up a new 403b plan with a different provider often takes weeks, sometimes months! If you do succeed in a quick set-up at a new better provider, the transfer of the Oppy funds including the Mass Mutual funds can take place soon.

Nate79
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby Nate79 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:49 am

My wife works for the state of Oregon and Voya manages the Oregon savings plan 457b account. They have good low cost options available in her plan.

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:34 pm

Nate79 wrote:My wife works for the state of Oregon and Voya manages the Oregon savings plan 457b account. They have good low cost options available in her plan.

When you look up Voya on the 403bcompare.com website, you find that they offer 4 variable annuity based 403b plans, an equity index annuity, a fixed annuity and 1 mutual fund based 403b plan. In the mutual fund based plan, the large cap index fund has an ER of 0.65% with an administration fee of 0.65% for a total of 1.30%. This is the Voya 403b that OP’s GF has access to at her school district. :(

njfastlife
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby njfastlife » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:08 pm

krow36 wrote:
njfastlife wrote:if she wants to STOP contributing to the Oppenheimer plan and roll it into the Lincoln (on top of the check she received from Mass Mutual from a previous employer), how would she best do this?

Is she holding a rollover check from a Mass Mutual 403b? If so, she has 60 days from it's date to get it to her present 403b provider. I wouldn't wait around on that but get it to Oppenheimer ASAP. After 60 days, it becomes taxable income and there's a 10% penalty. Setting up a new 403b plan with a different provider often takes weeks, sometimes months! If you do succeed in a quick set-up at a new better provider, the transfer of the Oppy funds including the Mass Mutual funds can take place soon.

yes, she has the rollover check and has had it for about 25 days now...

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:26 pm

I would not send the check to either the old or new 403b provider, but get it into a traditional IRA at Vanguard or Fidelity. Call them and have her set up the IRA (or do it on the internet). These 2 providors have the lowest fees, and she is free to choose any provider, so either one is much better than any 403b provider. Unless one is lucky and has one of them for the 403b provider.

njfastlife
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby njfastlife » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:12 pm

hey guys bumping this old thread. she now has all of her monies sitting in the Oppenheimer funds. i had her stop contributions and am thinking we should move it into the Lincoln Plan if we all seem to agree this is the best bet.

unless we can roll all of this money into some type of Vanguard IRA but that i am unaware of and am obviously more than welcoming to advice in that regard.

thanks!

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:10 pm

Did you check out this thread that I mentioned above? viewtopic.php?f=1&t=175295
Using the Lincoln Retirement SOLUTIONS Participant-Directed Platform looks like a good deal if she can get it. There's been several more recent posts to the thread. And it is being offered in NJ. Give a larger (regional?) Lincoln office a call--it might take persistence. It's strictly an over-the-internet plan with no local reps to help out. The pdf application form that you get from the regional office states the fees and other conditions. The plan also can be used for both 403b and 457, traditional and Roth, if the district allows it. Does the district use a Third Party Administrator (TPA)?

This certainly looks like your GF's best option and is worth pursuing.

njfastlife
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby njfastlife » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:02 pm

UPDATE:

1. ceasing further contribution to 403b

2. moving Oppenheimer assets to Lincoln

3. opening Vanguard Roth IRA


question: any tips on what to invest in the Roth? we are not risk-averse but not super risky either. would it be absurd to invest in VTSMX?

thanks all!

itstoomuch
Posts: 3835
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:17 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby itstoomuch » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:11 pm

JMHO. once you get involved in your GF/BF long range financial planning, the you might as well enjoy the future results. Get Married :oops: :annoyed :moneybag already. :mrgreen:
4 buckets: SS+pension;dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rental. Do OK any 2 bkts. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax 25%. Early SS. FundingRatio (FR) >1.1 Age 67/70

wishful_thinking
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby wishful_thinking » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:19 pm

My Roth IRA at Vanguard is in a Target Date Fund. Low ER, rebalances itself, and no need to overly complicate things. As my balance grows, I plan to create my own 3 fund portfolio with admiral shares, but for now the Target Date fund makes the most sense for me, and might for your GF too.

Did you ever mention whether your GF has access to a 457 plan in addition to the 403b? I've recently gone through the process of looking into my options (I'm in MA) and the 457 was better than my 403b options so I'm contributing to that first. Contact HR and ask what the providers are for a 457 if you haven't yet. If she doesn't have access to a 457, then I agree Lincoln is the way to go and the thread krow already linked to has lots of great information about that provider.

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:10 pm

njfastlife wrote:UPDATE:
1. ceasing further contribution to 403b
2. moving Oppenheimer assets to Lincoln
3. opening Vanguard Roth IRA
question: any tips on what to invest in the Roth? we are not risk-averse but not super risky either. would it be absurd to invest in VTSMX?

I'm glad you took care of the old Mass Mutual 403b check. Have you checked out the Lincoln Participant Directed 403b plan yet? If you are in NJ, it should be available to GF. Check out that thread on it--folks keep adding posts to it. Make the call to a Lincoln regional office and ask them email you the link to the PDF application form which has the only real information on the DIY plan that they've put out. The plan allows both 403b and 457 plans. The 457 plan has some advantages over the 403b plan. GF's Oppenheimer 403b money could stay in the Lincoln 403b and she could contribute to the 457, or to both.

The first step in avoiding those high fees at Oppy is to establish an account with Lincoln. Hopefully it's the DIY option, not the Retirement Solutions Premier option which tacks on 0.90% to Vanguard's index funds' ER. After the account is set up, you can work to move her Oppy account's money to it. That can take a month or 2.

No, it's not absurd use VTSMX (TSM) in the Roth. Using a Target Retirement fund also makes sense. Once you and GF are married, you really should consider all your accounts as one big portfolio. Of course the contents of Roth IRAs, 401k's, 403b's and 457 plans can be changed without any income tax consequences.

njfastlife
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:54 pm

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby njfastlife » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:51 pm

krow36 wrote:
njfastlife wrote:UPDATE:
1. ceasing further contribution to 403b
2. moving Oppenheimer assets to Lincoln
3. opening Vanguard Roth IRA
question: any tips on what to invest in the Roth? we are not risk-averse but not super risky either. would it be absurd to invest in VTSMX?

I'm glad you took care of the old Mass Mutual 403b check. Have you checked out the Lincoln Participant Directed 403b plan yet? If you are in NJ, it should be available to GF. Check out that thread on it--folks keep adding posts to it. Make the call to a Lincoln regional office and ask them email you the link to the PDF application form which has the only real information on the DIY plan that they've put out. The plan allows both 403b and 457 plans. The 457 plan has some advantages over the 403b plan. GF's Oppenheimer 403b money could stay in the Lincoln 403b and she could contribute to the 457, or to both.

The first step in avoiding those high fees at Oppy is to establish an account with Lincoln. Hopefully it's the DIY option, not the Retirement Solutions Premier option which tacks on 0.90% to Vanguard's index funds' ER. After the account is set up, you can work to move her Oppy account's money to it. That can take a month or 2.

No, it's not absurd use VTSMX (TSM) in the Roth. Using a Target Retirement fund also makes sense. Once you and GF are married, you really should consider all your accounts as one big portfolio. Of course the contents of Roth IRAs, 401k's, 403b's and 457 plans can be changed without any income tax consequences.


hey krow - we are in NY for the time being (but potentially back to NJ in due time). hoping it's available to us up here as well.

i am adding some questions that i also posted in the Lincoln thread:

question(s):

1. is there any harm in completely ceasing contributions to a 403b while we go through the process of moving the money over to Lincoln?

1(a). as an aside, we plan to open a Roth IRA (with Vanguard) and contribute the maximum ($5,500) yearly.

2. if we decide NOT to go with Lincoln can we roll the entire 403b into a Vanguard IRA of some sort? is this a bad idea?

krow36
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: WA

Re: Help me help my GF with her Oppenheimer 403(b)...

Postby krow36 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:32 pm

There is absolutely no harm in stopping contributions in a 403b. Good idea to stop contributing to the Oppy 403b as soon as she has something better set up! Or sooner if she wants. Opening a Roth IRA at Vanguard is also a good idea!

GF can roll over her Oppy 403b account to an IRA IF she is no longer employed by that plan’s “sponsor”, that is, she has quit that district. If she is still employed by the same school district, she is restricted to transferring the 403b account to one of the other provider's 403b on the district’s 403b provider list.

So GF and you have been and are now in NY state? And we should disregard your username? If that’s the case, GF should be aware that NY state has an excellent 457 plan. It’s very low cost. 457 plans have some advantages over 403b or other employer based plans for those interested in early retirement. https://www.nysdcp.com/tcm/nysdcp/stati ... ns.pdf?r=1 This 457 plan allows the moving of 403b accounts from previous employers into a subaccount in the 457. It remains a 403b but can use the very low cost funds of the 457. Check with her district to see if she can use the NY state 457, also called a Deferred Compensation Plan (DCP).


Return to “Investing - Help with Personal Investments”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cbr shadow, Chuffly, dooron, dratkinson, Jcraz13, jdibber, palaheel, psteinx, tech_arch, TheTimeLord, veggivet, Voltron, whaleknives, wolf359 and 154 guests