I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

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lomarica01
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I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by lomarica01 »

I am considering retiring at age 54, but if I wait one more year I will get another $1,000 per month in my state pension for the rest of my life. My wife will also have a government pension. Both have a COLA increase yearly. My job is fine but the thought of retiring at 54 is really starting to appeal to me.

We currently have about $1.5 mil 401k/457 ROTH IRA's. The house is paid for, one rental is paid for. No other debt. I expect to be able to live on our pensions alone, but we plan to withdraw the retirement accounts down pretty low over say a 15 year period during retirement. I know taxes will be very high but I want to use this money before age 70 when I expect my health to start to decline. This will also easily allow me to tax the max SS at age 70, but that decisions is still way off. Also a low seven figure inheritance is expected in the next 10-15 years or so but of course that is not guaranteed.

So in summary I do not think I need the extra $1,000 per month, but that is still a lot of money on to leave on the table for having to work only one more year. But of course if I work 2 more years it would be an extra $1800 per month more and so on.

Any advice is appreciated.
mac808
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by mac808 »

Does the pension start immediately upon retirement or at some later date like when you turn 65?

Do you hate your job or are you merely ambivalent?
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by Leeraar »

A quick look at http://www.immediateannuities.com says that $1,000 a month at your age is worth $200,000.

I'd suck it up and stay the extra year.

Edit: I just noticed it's a COLAed pension. That's worth a lot more, maybe $300k?

L.
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fposte
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by fposte »

Is there anything special about percentages at 55, or is it just one more year's value? Do you know if you have vacation/sick days that can count toward your term, or service purchase opportunities, that would mean you don't have to serve the actual days in full?

And you mention SS--are you eligible, considering the extent of your pension? If so, have you factored in the Windfall Elimination Provision?

Are there heirs who need to be considered here, whether it be your spouse if you unexpectedly parasail into oblivion at 54 or others?

(It sounds like you're in good shape, to be honest, but we live for crossing t's and dotting i's around here.)
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by randomguy »

The two lines of though are
1) You don't need the money, retire.

2) Thats a load of money. Wouldn't working 1 more year to be able to spend an extra 9k or so/year for the rest of your life, make retirement a lot better. Obviously if your pension is 20k/month versus 8k, the change is a bit different.

There is no right answer. If you hate your job 1 is an easy choice. If you don't mind your job, that extra spending can be fun (i.e. we are talking about leasing some 70k sports car, taking a 2 week trip to europe, remodeling the kitchen every 10 years, a ton of golf, big donation to your church...). If you have the vacation (i.e. you have 3+ weeks save up. Try to combine with holidays) I would suggest taking it and see if it refreshes you. You could also choose to trade money for time (if spending 6k on someone to cut your grass and clean the house, lets you work 1 year longer, you have made a ton of money) if you just feel you need a little more time in your life.

And of course, talk to your wife and figure out what her plans for retirement are. It might be better for you to retire 1 year later and her retire 1 year sooner.
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Toons
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by Toons »

12 months for another 1k a month.
Blink your eye and 12 months has flown by. :happy
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tainted-meat
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by tainted-meat »

Holy moly. Yes, I would work another couple years for the extra $1800 per month.
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8foot7
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by 8foot7 »

An extra 1k a month is a realistic equivalent of having another $200-300k saved up. I'd do the year, knowing the whole time if it gets unbearable you can pull the plug.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by dbr »

Leeraar wrote:A quick look at http://www.immediateannuities.com says that $1,000 a month at your age is worth $200,000.

I'd suck it up and stay the extra year.

Edit: I just noticed it's a COLAed pension. That's worth a lot more, maybe $300k?

L.
These decisions are easy when it is a one-time increment for meeting a milestone, which age 55 retirement is in some cases. It can also be we are just talking about a continuous increment in benefit for staying longer. OP says that $1000 increases to $1800 if he stays to age 56. It would be interesting to see the whole schedule.

When I approached retirement the schedule went something like this: 5% penalty for every year before age 61 + about 4% for every year worked on 25 years average tenure + about 3% for pay increases in high four salary = between ages 55 and 61 an increase in pension benefits of about 12%/annum. With a formula like that the pension has to be a pretty minor part of ones expected income to ignore the financial benefit of staying to age 61.

A different question on which no one can provide advice is the lifestyle benefit of not working and doing something else. I stayed a little longer than one might have because there was an opportunity to see an interesting project to completion. Sometime work is actually rewarding.
basspond
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by basspond »

You can either leave the money on the table or one year of your life. Which is more important to you?
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prudent
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by prudent »

Assuming you save for retirement, there is no point at which working another year would not mean more money in retirement, correct? Doesn't seem like the extra money will make any meaningful difference in your standard of living.

So it appears to me that if you want to stop working now, you can.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by travellight »

I would probably do the extra year. In my case, there is a difference of 2000/month if I stay 7 years, no brainer.
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Peter Foley
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by Peter Foley »

Middle ground?????

If you are a public employee you probably get a reasonable amount of vacation each year, and you may have a number of days of vacation in the bank.

How about using a day of vacation each week and working another year? Or if you have the flexibility, work 9 hour days 4 days a week and take a half day vacation each week. I worked 4 days a week my last 5 months. It was a nice transition to full time retirement.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by psystal »

One other consideration: how healthy are you?

If I were relatively fit with a normal family health history, I'd work the extra year. Otherwise, those extra years of retirement might be far more valuable.
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lomarica01
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by lomarica01 »

thanks for all the responses. I will not respond to all of them but yes I am healthy, the job is great. I already am on a 9-80 schedule and have plenty of vacation saved up. the retirement starts as soon as I retire, I am not worried about the heir. The wife would work for a couple more years then retire.

The standard state pension formula is 2% at 55. So after 30 years I would have approx 60% of salary, but the take home pay will be about the same as I get now. If I draw down the $1.5 mil that is easily $100,000 per year for 15 years on top of the two pensions. I estimate the two pensions to be about $120,000/ yr. So the $1,000 more per month is about 5% of the total until age 70. after the % will be a bit higher

Maybe I just answered my own question.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by Ybsybs »

You might also want to talk with your spouse about her expectations if you were to be retired for a few years while she was still working. It may be that she'd expect you to be a house husband in ways you wouldn't enjoy or that your retirement dreams involve travel she couldn't do while keeping her job. Another possibility is that she would be comfortable retiring in one year (at the same time as you) if you worked one more year, but that if you don't, she'll have to do three or four years.
Dandy
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by Dandy »

If you and your wife are in good health I'd suggest going for an extra year and an extra 12k Cola pension. You should have plenty of great active years when you retire at 55 instead of 54. As long as work is "fine" why not. You will be surprised how fast the year will go and then maybe 40 years of retirement.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by Lynette »

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lomarica01
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by lomarica01 »

If you are healthy at 54, why would you expect your health to decline? Don't make assumptions! Instead work a year longer and spend money on exercise equipment, personal trainer, whatever.

From a seventy+ person - soon to retire!


Maybe 70 is a bit early but my thought is my father and grandfather both got Alzheimers and just watching my father in law and mother it seems natural to start slowing down and not travel as much or even just spend as much money.

Congrats on your health and soon to retire
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by randomguy »

lomarica01 wrote:If you are healthy at 54, why would you expect your health to decline? Don't make assumptions! Instead work a year longer and spend money on exercise equipment, personal trainer, whatever.

From a seventy+ person - soon to retire!


Maybe 70 is a bit early but my thought is my father and grandfather both got Alzheimers and just watching my father in law and mother it seems natural to start slowing down and not travel as much or even just spend as much money.

Congrats on your health and soon to retire
The question is what are you doing when you retire that you aren't doing now? Have something like want to play golf every day, and it is tough to do that when working. If you want to do something like take a 3 week vacation to Machu Pico, you can do that. Some of the change is attitude in that you can trade time for money. If by spending 30k to do things like take 4 day weekends in europe, helps you work one more year, you are still coming out hundreds of thousand of dollars ahead. You can do a ton of living when you still have a job.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by tibbitts »

randomguy wrote:
lomarica01 wrote:If you are healthy at 54, why would you expect your health to decline? Don't make assumptions! Instead work a year longer and spend money on exercise equipment, personal trainer, whatever.

From a seventy+ person - soon to retire!


Maybe 70 is a bit early but my thought is my father and grandfather both got Alzheimers and just watching my father in law and mother it seems natural to start slowing down and not travel as much or even just spend as much money.

Congrats on your health and soon to retire
The question is what are you doing when you retire that you aren't doing now? Have something like want to play golf every day, and it is tough to do that when working. If you want to do something like take a 3 week vacation to Machu Pico, you can do that. Some of the change is attitude in that you can trade time for money. If by spending 30k to do things like take 4 day weekends in europe, helps you work one more year, you are still coming out hundreds of thousand of dollars ahead. You can do a ton of living when you still have a job.
4 day weekends in Europe??? It would take me 4 days just to get to Europe and then a week to recover.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by 123 »

How significant is the extra $1,000 a month? Does the pension go from something like $5K to $6K monthly or would it go from $20K to $21K monthly?
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by randomguy »

tibbitts wrote:
randomguy wrote:
lomarica01 wrote:If you are healthy at 54, why would you expect your health to decline? Don't make assumptions! Instead work a year longer and spend money on exercise equipment, personal trainer, whatever.

From a seventy+ person - soon to retire!


Maybe 70 is a bit early but my thought is my father and grandfather both got Alzheimers and just watching my father in law and mother it seems natural to start slowing down and not travel as much or even just spend as much money.

Congrats on your health and soon to retire
The question is what are you doing when you retire that you aren't doing now? Have something like want to play golf every day, and it is tough to do that when working. If you want to do something like take a 3 week vacation to Machu Pico, you can do that. Some of the change is attitude in that you can trade time for money. If by spending 30k to do things like take 4 day weekends in europe, helps you work one more year, you are still coming out hundreds of thousand of dollars ahead. You can do a ton of living when you still have a job.
4 day weekends in Europe??? It would take me 4 days just to get to Europe and then a week to recover.
I have done XC flights (same distance as europe), west coast flight to hawaii ( a bit shorter), and flights from the east coast to europe (what we are talking about distance) numerous times for 3-4 day periods and never had a problem. We are talking about ~8 hour flights. You get on the plane, take a nap, land and start having fun. As far as recovery, that is what work is for:) Obviously a lot depends on where you live. But lets say you want more tiem. Use some vacation time. it is easy to spend 3-4 days and end up with a 10 day trip (2 weekends, 1-2 holidays, and 3-4 vacation days). Most government jobs are giving you 4-5 weeks of vacation if you have been there 20+ years to go along with the 10 paid holidays. Sure the 6 week trip to Australia gets difficult to schedule (possible but tough) but most people have a ton of shorter ones that they can do for a couple of years and then do the big one in 2 or 3 years.
derosa
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by derosa »

No one ever says that they should have spent more time at the office after they quit.

You can always get more money.

Where do you get more time?
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by randomguy »

derosa wrote:No one ever says that they should have spent more time at the office after they quit.

You can always get more money.

Where do you get more time?
I have heard a ton of people say that. They phrase it something like "I wish we could afford to do that".

You can always get more money. But the amount of effort to get 12k/yr (call it a 250k lump sum) when you are 62 and decide you want more money is going to be much higher than working 1 year.

And you can get more time. 50 bucks gets me 45 mins of not cutting the grass. 120 gets me 3 hours of not cleaning the house. 300 bucks saves me 3 hours of not shopping for a sale on a TV. 60 bucks saves me an hour doing an oil change. And so on. You would need to figure out if 12k/yr will free up 1800 or so hours over the next 30-40 years to see where it falls on the money time tradeoff scale.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by Watty »

Leeraar wrote:A quick look at http://www.immediateannuities.com says that $1,000 a month at your age is worth $200,000.

I'd suck it up and stay the extra year.

Edit: I just noticed it's a COLAed pension. That's worth a lot more, maybe $300k?

L.
It is more complicated.

During the additional year there would be 12 months pension checks would be missed compared to starting it now. An annuity for a person who is a year older would be less expensive too.

If the current pension is 60% of salary and a lot of things like income taxes and social security are paid out of each paycheck then the net pay from the extra years work may be very little compared to taking the pension.

There could of course be other paid work benefits that would be worth something.

I retired last summer just before my 59th birthday and since then I have been sleeping better, taking the time to cook and eat better, getting at least an hours light exercise like walking most days. This has allowed me to get in a lot better shape and lose a bunch of weight so overall my health is a lot better. In all likelihood I have added years to my life or at least more healthier years.

My job was pretty secure and not horrible so I could have likely have worked there for at least five more years. I didn't have a pension but I left a lot of income "on the table" but I have no regrets and I am pretty sure that overall the non-financial benefits have made it worthwhile. There is no way that I would go back to full time work unless I really had to and even getting a part time job or contracting has little appeal.
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Watty
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by Watty »

lomarica01 wrote:If you are healthy at 54, why would you expect your health to decline? Don't make assumptions! Instead work a year longer and spend money on exercise equipment, personal trainer, whatever.

From a seventy+ person - soon to retire!


Maybe 70 is a bit early but my thought is my father and grandfather both got Alzheimers and just watching my father in law and mother it seems natural to start slowing down and not travel as much or even just spend as much money.

Congrats on your health and soon to retire
For what it is worth I have seen relatives that were in relatively good health that did slow down by the time that they reached their mid 70's.

For a couple then it is less likely that both of the spouses will stay in good health and high energy into their 70's and 80's although I have also seen couples in their 90's that were both in good shape but I would not count on that happening.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by lumberingc »

lomarica01:

It seems ridiculous to me to not keep working until 56 for an extra $1800/month

Why not just work until 70? Then you will be balling in the nursing home.

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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by midareff »

Leeraar wrote:A quick look at http://www.immediateannuities.com says that $1,000 a month at your age is worth $200,000.

I'd suck it up and stay the extra year.

Edit: I just noticed it's a COLAed pension. That's worth a lot more, maybe $300k?

L.

I would stay the year. That much more pension can certainly make many things nicer and much more enjoyable in the future.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by HopeToGolf »

For an extra $12K on top of pensions in the $120K range it seems to be worth it. If you have it in you, spend that final year kicking backing and maybe spending more money on your hobbies than you get have. Can you work less during that last year? Take on fewer responsibilities? I hope to be able to take my foot of the accelerator around that time and coast home.
J295
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by J295 »

Great question. Really brings the "one more year" syndrome to the forefront.

At some point, and only OP knows when, the trade off of $$ vs. freedom/time tips towards favoring time and you need to step off (not applicable really if one loves their work and want to die with their boots on, which is fine too). For us, age 53 worked out to be the time when "one more year" didn't tip the scales.

Those with six figure incomes make this decision every year once they reach financial independence.

One side note, I think it is great to transition well, instead of limp across the finish line. Presumably, OP put in quality time and effort at his/her work and to slide out just wouldn't leave a good taste for him/her or the organization.

OP -- let us know where you land please, and best of luck.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by flyingaway »

Even I do not have a pension, working one more year seems to make about $240,000. Here is my math, assume my yearly expenses are $80,000.

For working a year, I get to save $80,000, my portfolio gets to increase by $80,000, and I have one fewer year to support in retirement (worth $80,000).
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by dbr »

flyingaway wrote:Even I do not have a pension, working one more year seems to make about $240,000. Here is my math, assume my yearly expenses are $80,000.

For working a year, I get to save $80,000, my portfolio gets to increase by $80,000, and I have one fewer year to support in retirement (worth $80,000).
One more year always has a huge financial benefit based on this kind of reasoning. With the exception of cases where there are some very steep phase ins, as with some pension systems, or SS between ages 62 and 70, this reasoning can easily be made into a convincing case that one should never retire. I think it is a more healthy mental attitude to compare the interest and reward of working to the same for not working and judge finances by deciding when the resources are sufficient. Of course, I have known people to die with eight figure estates and feel they "won" because they never used any of their money and did nothing in retirement except increase it. A bunch of good for nothing adult children got all the money but at least the children actually knew how to spend money.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by sawhorse »

My first reaction was that it's too much money to forgo, but as others have said, it's a lot more complicated.

My father was forced into early retirement at age 59 or 60. He was upset at the time, but now he is glad it happened. He has a pension, so money flow wasn't a concern. Being forced into early retirement has allowed him to grow as a person, pick up new skills and hobbies, and overall be happier. He didn't completely hate his job at the time he retired, but he didn't like it either, and there were definitely periods during which he truly hated his job, so it's a bit different from your situation.

The fact that you find this a difficult decision suggests to me that you don't think that extra money will make a huge difference in your ability to enjoy retirement. If so, then that points toward retirement.

You mention anticipating your health going downhill in 15 years. Is this based on personal/family health history? It's tragic when someone puts off retirement only to die or experience poor health soon after retiring.

One thing I'd be worried about us sequence of returns risk. When you do your calculations, are you taking into consideration the possibility of a bear market that starts right after you retire?

And are you taking into consideration the possibility that the inheritance won't materialize?
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by IFKC »

Peter Foley wrote:Middle ground?????

If you are a public employee you probably get a reasonable amount of vacation each year, and you may have a number of days of vacation in the bank.

How about using a day of vacation each week and working another year? Or if you have the flexibility, work 9 hour days 4 days a week and take a half day vacation each week. I worked 4 days a week my last 5 months. It was a nice transition to full time retirement.
+1. I'm far from retirement, but I have seen multiple people do this as they reach retirement in my agency and sister agencies. Yes, you don't get the extra cash payout for the unused vacation at time of retirement. But it doesn't sound like you need the one time payout.
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by Ruprecht »

randomguy wrote:And you can get more time. 50 bucks gets me 45 mins of not cutting the grass. 120 gets me 3 hours of not cleaning the house. 300 bucks saves me 3 hours of not shopping for a sale on a TV. 60 bucks saves me an hour doing an oil change. And so on. You would need to figure out if 12k/yr will free up 1800 or so hours over the next 30-40 years to see where it falls on the money time tradeoff scale.
That's a really great way to look at that. I need to learn to think that way more often. I think part of my problem is that until I was in my 30s I had very little money, barely enough to get by at times. So the ideas in your post still "feel" completely wrong to me. But now that I do actually have a stable job with a good income, you're right. I can "buy time" to some extent.

Anybody want to mow my lawn this summer?
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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: I am leaving too much $ on the table by retiring 1 year early?

Post by zaboomafoozarg »

If I were in that position at age 54, I'd probably work 1 more year until 55.

Then again, I plan to retire around 45 or 50, so I might not be the best one to talk :)
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