Schwab vs Vanguard

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threedecades
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Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby threedecades » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:13 pm

Schwab vs Vanguard: In terms of overall experience, from fund availability, to commission, to index fund availability, which do you prefer? Why?

I know this has been asked on this forum before, but the answers are somewhat dated and I wanted to get an updated perspective.

I ask this because I have just inherited some stocks in a Schwab account. I'm looking to open up a Roth IRA and move some (not all) funds from single stocks in this inherited taxable account into Vanguard Index funds in this new Roth IRA. I would love to hear the thoughts of the Bogleheads.

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InvestorNewb
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby InvestorNewb » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:18 pm

Don't forget you are asking this on a Vanguard forum. :happy

If it wasn't for Vanguard, many of these other companies wouldn't be lowering their fees. You have to give credit where it is due.
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Toons
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby Toons » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:18 pm

Ditto.
Vanguard. :happy
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mhalley
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby mhalley » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:25 pm

I have Fidelity, Vanguard and Schwab accounts. They all have their pluses and minuses. If I had an account at Schwab, Vanguard, or Fidelity and did NOT have one at one of the other companies, I really don't think there would be a compelling reason to switch to another. They all have a reasonable website and cheap index funds and/or etfs. It would be hard for me to pick a favorite if you put a gun to my head.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby TomatoTomahto » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:29 pm

Even without a gun to my head, my favorite is Vanguard. Fidelity is a distant second, but that might be influenced by a small customer service error on their part. I haven't had a Schwab account for a long time, so I can't say.

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ogd
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby ogd » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:43 pm

threedecades wrote:I ask this because I have just inherited some stocks in a Schwab account. I'm looking to open up a Roth IRA and move some (not all) funds from single stocks in this inherited taxable account into Vanguard Index funds in this new Roth IRA. I would love to hear the thoughts of the Bogleheads.

Vanguard. Two reasons:

1) Schwab is nice and cheap, but only on Vanguard will you find the Admiral index funds free, which are nicer to use than ETFs.

2) Schwab is nice and friendly, but Vanguard will put you in good investments even if you don't know anything at all (think survivors if not necessarily yourself). Schwab will by default take you to a more expensive route; additionally, the pressure to get money from customers varies with management changes and while it's at a low right now, in the future who knows. There's just no getting around the fact that Vanguard doesn't try to make a profit off of you, whereas for Schwab or Fidelity there's a misalignment of interest. That both firms handle it pretty well is to their credit, but still.

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ogd
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby ogd » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:44 pm

InvestorNewb wrote:Don't forget you are asking this on a Vanguard forum. :happy

It's not a Vanguard forum per se, but they do have the best funds for a boglehead and they will advise using them by default, even for investors that are completely hapless.

We do have a pretty good view of Schwab and Fidelity around here, too.

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Doc
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby Doc » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:46 pm

InvestorNewb wrote:Don't forget you are asking this on a Vanguard forum. :happy

If it wasn't for Vanguard, many of these other companies wouldn't be lowering their fees. You have to give credit where it is due.

Vanguard has outstanding mutual funds with very low cost. That low cost comes at a price. Twentieth century IT and customer service in the 21st century. As InvestorNewb observed the other companies have been lowering their fees to compete. But without lowering their standards. They can lower their fees by reducing their profits. Vanguard can't do that because their clients are their owners. There is no way to cost shift.

If you are a three fund buy and hold forever go with Vanguard. If you adhere to a rebalancing mantra and are tax very tax conscious you might be better off elsewhere.

We have accounts at Vanguard, Schwab and Fidelity. Vanguard's low cost just about pays for the extra cost in Maalox that goes along with that low cost.
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edit: correct typo.
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby 123 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:48 pm

We have Vanguard, Schwab, and Fidelity accounts. If you want only Vanguard products it's easiest to just go directly with Vanguard.

If you potentially anticipate the desire for a broader range of brokerage products then Schwab or Fidelity might be better choices depending on what you think you may do. Both Schwab and Fidelity have much more sophisticated websites which can provide a lot of information to you about your account as well as other securities. Because of the absence of some of the support arrangements common in the mutual fund industry (some might call them kick-backs) if you buy Vanguard funds at Schwab or Fidelity they have a charge of something on the order of $76 for each transaction, you don't pay that if you buy directly from Vanguard. Schwab and Fidelity have their own (free of transaction fee) funds which compete well with Vanguard for low cost. Of course if you go with the ETF versions of Vanguard funds you incur a transaction fee of $10 or less on each buy or sell with Schwab or Fidelity.

Both Schwab and Fidelity offer broader customer service then Vanguard, both from their local branches as well as telephone.

I use primarily ETFs at Schwab and my transaction costs are usually under $100 a year, costs at Fidelity would probably be similar. Though I rarely have any issues I have to say that customer service at Schwab and Fidelity is somewhat more responsive then Vanguard.

Regardless of your initial choice it is easy to switch among them.
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ogd
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby ogd » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:00 pm

Doc wrote:Vanguard has outstanding mutual funds with very low cost. That low cost comes at a price. Twentieth century IT and customer service in the 21st century. As InvestorNewb observed the other companies have been lowering their fees to compete. But without lowering their standards. They can lower their fees by reducing their profits. Vanguard can't do that because their clients are their owners. There is no way to cost shift.

Is this a roundabout way of saying "other customers who are put into high expense funds are subsidizing my higher customer service"? Should that give you a little pause? If nothing else, maybe a survivor / friend / forum member will be on the wrong side of that cost shift.

Also, Vanguard has something unique right now which is tax-efficient mutual funds due to the dual-share structure. Doesn't matter for OP right now, but it might one day.

For me, there's no way any perceived shortcomings of the customer service (of which there have been, minor) is worth the large costs savings.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby jjface » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:05 pm

Schwab has a good online chat that stays available 24/7. Their mutual fund offerings are not as strong as others though not bad but their ETFs are pretty good there. Has a range of added features you do not really get at vanguard like a decent debit card, non-prototype SEP IRAs, foreign exchange, branches etc.

Vanguard customer service requires you to pick up the phone. They offer the best mutual funds and etfs period.

Fidelity - online chat and reasonable mutual funds/ishares etfs. Solo 401k allows incoming rollovers which vanguard does not and also spartan advantage funds (vanguard only allows investor funds). Decent debit card, foreign exchange and trading, branches etc too.

I have all three and the schwab account is empty. I am currently using the fidelity account for 75% but am always tempted to switch more over to vanguard for their funds.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby GoldenFinch » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:12 pm

We have both, but I like Vanguard better, mainly because I like their fund choices better.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby hlfo718 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:48 pm

Vanguard for sure. Index funds for taxable accounts and Wellington/Wellesley for tax free/deferred accounts. Have you noticed the costs for the two Wellington/Wellesley funds? Wow!

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Doc
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby Doc » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:27 pm

ogd wrote:Is this a roundabout way of saying "other customers who are put into high expense funds are subsidizing my higher customer service"? Should that give you a little pause? If nothing else, maybe a survivor / friend / forum member will be on the wrong side of that cost shift.

No it's saying that a for profit brokerage like Schwab or Fidelity doesn't have to work on the "lowest cost business model". They are free to take less profit in return for other things like market share or customer loyalty.

Vanguard dropped its Saturday call service last year for "cost' reasons and are now down to 8:00 to 22:00 five days a week while Schwab is still 24/7. Schwab's "business model" is more like good service not lowest cost. There is nothing wrong with either model nor am I saying that one is better than the other. They are just different.

Some of us prefer one to the other. I prefer Vanguard for some investments and Schwab or Fidelity for others. Mrs. Doc wants to be able to walk into an office and talk to a live rep in person if she has a need. She can't do that with Vanguard. There is a cost for that.
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ogd
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby ogd » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:06 pm

Doc wrote:
ogd wrote:Is this a roundabout way of saying "other customers who are put into high expense funds are subsidizing my higher customer service"? Should that give you a little pause? If nothing else, maybe a survivor / friend / forum member will be on the wrong side of that cost shift.

No it's saying that a for profit brokerage like Schwab or Fidelity doesn't have to work on the "lowest cost business model". They are free to take less profit in return for other things like market share or customer loyalty.

But there is a lower bound of zero for how much profit they can drop, and Vanguard is already there. If cost is the issue, then where does the extra money that S & F put in there come from? Considering Vanguard's low-cost funds are bigger, too. "Other customers" is a reasonable answer, but it's not one I necessarily like for the reasons above.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby in_reality » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:07 pm

Schwab (for the ability to do proper accounting). I had too many problems in my Vanguard account. Transactions confirmations not matching statements. Trades made but securities not showing up in my account. Misreported tax info.

I got angry with Vanguard when I started worrying that my wife would miss the errors and lose money. The only thing I have now there is a small holding in an annuity from my younger, more foolish years.

I'd never experienced anything like that prior to transferring to Vanguard and was absolutely shocked to tell the truth based on how many people have a good experience there.
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby mt » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:14 pm

I have both a Vanguard and Schwab account. Vanguard does have better fund choices but they also told my group they would not handle our pension plan any longer. Still irked about that.

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Strayshot
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby Strayshot » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:39 pm

You know what they say about opinions.......... :sharebeer

Between those 3 providers I don't believe you will find a clear winner. Obviously there are lots of vanguard supporters on this forum, and yes a tremendous debt is owed by the average investor to jack and vanguard, but that doesn't mean that vanguard is necessarily the "best" choice.

I would open basic (free) accounts at each company so that you can explore the web and mobile interfaces and available information each company provides (in case those things are important to you).

Each has reasonable low-ER funds that can be used to construct a three-fund portfolio with no transaction costs.

I like them all, but I do most of my interactions with Fidelity. Customer service has always been excellent, their checking/ATM account and credit card is the best in the business, and my workplace 401k is also there so I have ease of interaction (the 401k they administer for my employer is also absolutely top notch). I also appreciate their local investor centers where I can do things like deposit checks (the one time where mobile deposit would not work from my phone) and get free medallion signatures.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby mike127 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:31 pm

We currently have Schwab and Fidelity accounts, and previously held funds at Vanguard too.

After reading this board for a while, I wanted to like Vanguard, but there were too many issues with customer service reps not knowing details of things, having trouble getting to the right person to complete a transfer, etc. It just seemed that the reps I was dealing with weren't uniformly well trained and empowered to help, and things didn't always get done right the first time (even though my portfolio isn't/wasn't especially complicated).

In contrast, we've had uniformly positive service at Schwab. They're great at answering detailed questions -- even at 2 am, when I tend to do my rebalancing :) -- and take ownership of issues, so that if the person I'm talking to can't do something then they make sure it gets done. Just today I submitted a request to Schwab that were wrong (that is, I made the mistake). Even though the requests were executable as framed -- that is, technically the trades would have cleared, etc. -- Schwab caught that I'd made a mistake and proactively reached out to confirm whether I wanted to adjust my instructions.

I don't require huge amounts of customer service, but it's challenging when I trust an institution with significant amounts of money can't always rely on things being handled properly.

While we've been really happy with Schwab on customer service, we also prefer the investment options from Vanguard. Luckily, one can own Vanguard ETFs and mutual funds but hold them at Schwab -- so I can get the best of both worlds. Originally Schwab offered me free Vanguard trades, though that ended when Vanguard stopped letting me buy Admiral shares of its funds at Schwab. So now I buy Vanguard ETFs and pay $8/trade or something for them. This amounts to about $50/year for me since I don't trade that often, which I consider a reasonable payment for being able to reach a competent person to help me at any time of the day or night.

(Edited to add: Your mileage may vary. This is just my experience -- obviously there are lots of people here who are huge Vanguard fans, and you'll probably be in good shape no matter which of these two strong firms you choose.)

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby radiowave » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:40 pm

odg wrote:
Also, Vanguard has something unique right now which is tax-efficient mutual funds due to the dual-share structure. Doesn't matter for OP right now, but it might one day.


I'm looking at my FY15 taxable accounts getting ready for taxes. My Fidelity Spartan total stock (FSTVX) has about $400 capital gains, my Vanguard total stock funds VTSAX (about equal portion with Fidelity) had $0 capital gains. So that represents some hidden fees for Fidelity compared to Vanguard as odg notes. I like the Fidelity web interface better than Vanguard, and agree with the post above that Fidelity customer support is better than Vanguard.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby Bill M » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:24 pm

We have all three (Vanguard, Schwab, and Fidelity), and a few others (MetLife, TransAmerica, Computershare, ...). Definitely like Vanguard most, and plan to consolidate all accounts there.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby MnD » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:33 pm

We have and have had Vanguard ETF's with admiral-level expense ratios in Schwab and Fidelity accounts.
Schwab is my far and away favorite for service and Vanguard ETF's are a click away.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby darrellr » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:22 am

I'm happy with both Schwab and vanguard. Schwab has offices near me, better service, and better online interface. Vanguard helps keep things simple and pushes low cost index funds.

For those who want the company they support to be "ethical", I'd point out that Schwab pushed the discount brokerage fees (as opposed to the old "full service broker" fees). Schwab also pushed the no load mutual funds back in the 90's when I got into investing. I never ever paid a mutual fund load thanks to Schwab's educational bulletin. I also learned about expense ratios from Schwab.

Schwab is out for a profit (conflict of interest) whereas with vanguard I think I am an owner through my holdings. But I'm happy with both.

In other news, fidelity had a big spread in the WSJ Monday advocating their belief in active mutual funds. They picked one fund (contrafund) and one very specific start date to make their case. My family has some 401k's via fidelity and I am only happy if they give me a low cost index in the choices (Spartan s&p 500 in my case).

Now if only fidelity will tell me which active fund will beat the index over the next 20 years, I'll be very happy.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby bondsr4me » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:38 am

I have accounts at all three: VG, Schwab, Fidelity.

They all have their individual strengths and weakness.

I do like CS & Fido real time chat; it would be nice if VG had this too, but I wouldn't sit around waiting for it.

I will most likely keep accounts at all three unless fees/charges for maintaining accounts become an issue.

Don

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby JupiterJones » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:42 am

I have my IRA with Schwab. My 403b used to be at Fidelity and is now at Vanguard due to a change in the company plan (although Fidelity still administers the plan, interestingly).

Anyway, I don't really have any complaints about any of the three. All have some good investment options available. If I were starting at square one again, I'd probably lean towards Vanguard for three reasons:

  1. A better, broader selection of low-cost, indexed mutual funds (and fewer lousy funds to wade through)
  2. A legacy of championing those sorts of funds (thanks to Mr. Bogle)
  3. A unique corporate structure where the company is owned by the funds, and the funds owned by the clients... therefore we the clients own Vanguard! (Contrast this with Schwab and Fido, where the shareholders of the company and the shareholders of the funds are two different groups, with potentially-conflicting interests.) This doesn't get emphasized as much as it should, IMHO.

That said, my preference for VG isn't so strong that I've been compelled to move my IRA over to them yet. Maybe one day, who knows? So I probably wouldn't be in any big rush to move the funds in your case either.
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby powermega » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:31 am

We have accounts at both Schwab and Vanguard. We have checking, savings, taxable brokerage, and personal rIRAs at Schwab. I have two inherited IRAs at Vanguard. I have been a Schwab customer for about 25 years and a Vanguard customer for about 3 years. I intend to keep accounts at both custodians.

Schwab has world-class customer service available 24/7. It's nice to be able to go into a branch office when necessary too. Schwab's web site is much better than Vanguard's, and that includes the trading platform. I have never experienced or even heard about errors by Schwab for trading or tax forms, something you can occasionally hear about with Vanguard. If those things are important to you, then Schwab is a better choice for you.

If you're a Boglehead, then the best way to invest at Schwab is to buy the no-fee ETFs. Many Vanguard funds are available as an ETF that you can trade for $8 at Schwab if you really need an allocation that Schwab's ETF lineup doesn't address (ex: total international bond fund). If you don't like ETFs, or you have a strong preference for mutual funds, then Vanguard is a better choice. I would also say that if you make heavy use of the Vangard balanced funds (ex: LifeStrategy and Target Date), then having accounts at Vanguard is better for that since you will pay a fee for those funds anywhere else.

Vanguard will probably never have the same level of customer support, web site, trading platform or branch offices like Schwab. It's just simply not Vanguard's business model. Some people don't really care about those things. They are just interested in having a very wide selection of the best index funds available in the industry. Nobody can touch the complete low-cost index fund lineup at Vanguard. If that is your top priority, then Vanguard is your best choice.

Both companies have a strong track record of advocating for the common investor and for lowering investment costs, but Vanguard will always be the gold standard in this regard.
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby MnD » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:42 pm

The volume and bid/ask spread on the Schwab ETF's seems to have improved lately.
I wonder if the Schwab robo-advisor service isn't improving volume and spreads.

The last time I purchased SCHE (emerging markets) the spread was a 1 cent and last purchase of SCHC (small cap international) the spread was 5 cents and my trade executed in the middle so 2-3 cents. I thought Vanguard ETF's had an edge in this due to size and volume but maybe not anymore.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby kazper » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:11 pm

I started my investing with t rowe price when I didn't have enough to scrounge the minimum amount needed for places like vanguard. Their low monthly automatic option allowed me to build up my account to a decent sum. Once I started learning about the importance of low ERs and diversification, I moved most of the money over to vanguard.

For a while in between I stated working with schwab. Most of their expense ratios are higher, so you need to pay attention. But their websites are much more customer friendly than say vanguard. I remember it took me almost half an hour to figure out how to complete a basic transaction. If that isn't bad enough, even doing it a second time took a while because their site is not always intuitive. They like to cram everything under one heading that doesn't always make logical sense. with schwab, it took maybe five minutes. And if you are ever stuck, schwab has their online chat sessions available, a very nice feature.

If I only needed occasional contact and wanted the lowest ers possible, vanguard would be the best fit. If I neded to stay in touch more often, schwab would be the ay to go. Really, it is all about what you want and need out of your institution.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby chrisdds98 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:44 pm

Bumping an old thread...

looks like schwabs index funds/etfs are less expensive then vanguard now. I'm assuming schwab has better customer service in vanguard. Any reason to stick with vanguard?

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby kolea » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:25 pm

threedecades wrote:Schwab vs Vanguard: In terms of overall experience, from fund availability, to commission, to index fund availability, which do you prefer? Why?



I predominately invest in Vanguard funds but I hold everything at Schwab. Main reasons: customer service and user web portal. Very easy for me to do business with Schwab.

Basically, I would separate the question of who is the best fund vendor from where is the best place to hold your funds.
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby rob » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:32 pm

Opening a chat session at Schwab will convince you their customer service is far superior by question two..... but the low cost index funds are a loss leader.... Other customers are paying for the great service :D
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby Iorek » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:44 pm

That's pretty impressive that competition has driven the prices down. I will say that without a doubt Schwab (and T Rowe Price) have better customer service that Vanguard, but I rarely need customer service (honestly Vanguard, in 2017 your CSRs really assume without asking that my wife and I share the same last name?). I would also note that Vanguard has a pretty good track record on minimizing tax distributions-- you might poke around to see in M* or anyone else still reports on that as a metric, because it might be worth a more than a few basis points.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby ps56k » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:48 pm

ogd wrote:Schwab is nice and cheap, but only on Vanguard will you find the Admiral index funds free, which are nicer to use than ETFs.

Was just browsing and reading these threads -

What do you mean -- Admiral index funds free - ?

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby dduke12 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:11 pm

Definitely Schwab for the brokerage but Vanguard for the Funds--I use ETFs and keep it simple for my taxable $$
-I buy VT (Total world ETF) and keep it at around 75% of my portfolio, and VTEB (muni bond index) 25%.

I only buy when I have a big amount of $$ so I only purchase maybe 3-4x a yr or if the markets get way out of whack.

Also, the commission is only $4.95 per trade.

Also, we are about to go out of the country and looking forward to using the Schwab ATM/debit card without fees.

To each his own....

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby littlebird » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:06 am

I was very happy with Vanguard during our accumulating years and recommended them to family and friends, and still do, but only to younger ones.

In the distribution phase and especially once I needed to act in a representative capacity - POA and Trustee - they fell very short of what was required, being burdened with bureaucratic rigidity and poor management of communications (in my opinion, of course).

Moved most of our accounts to Schwab, with some cash and equivalents going to a local bank. Each required some compromise (see various recent threads on difficulty with POAs), but both have been flexible and customer-friendly enough to meet our current needs.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby MnD » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:13 am

Vanguard (and other low cost alternatives like Schwab) for funds, Schwab for accounts.

Been with Schwab for decades, had had nearly every type of account they offer and I've always been impressed.
As mentioned just above, when you get involved as POA, executor or trustee, Schwab knocks the ball out of the park. On even highly complex issues my rep understands the question the first time and if needed conferences in a specialist and then always stays on the line until the action or matter is resolved. When a signed letter of instruction is required, Schwab typically executes it the day they receive without question or problems. Their investor checking is an amazing deal, both my young adult children also have it, and both state that compared to the banking deals their peers have, it's outstanding. My rep calls once a year for about 3 minutes and asks if I need anything and doesn't try to sell me anything.

I have some significant positions in Vanguard funds and ETF's which are wonderful but I'd never consider them for accounts.
Too many horror stories here on what is a hugely pro-vanguard forum.

Schwab's goal is to be the ultimate asset aggregator which is why they offer seemingly too good to be true checking account, unprofitable accounts like ESA's, no minimum balance brokerage accounts and other high quality services with low or no minimum balances.

KidneyMD
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby KidneyMD » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:58 am

For anyone who has opened a new account with Schwab recently (I opened mine in January), when do they stop mailing you about all your mobile deposits taking 5-7 days to clear? Otherwise I've had no issues with them so far.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby hoops777 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:10 pm

Just switched to Schwab and would say it is superior to Vanguard in every way minus the buying admiral funds.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.

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Doc
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby Doc » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:59 pm

hoops777 wrote:Just switched to Schwab and would say it is superior to Vanguard in every way minus the buying admiral funds.

There are very few admiral funds that I can't buy as cheaply at Schwab with the exception of some of Vanguard's Admiral class active bond funds with $50k minimums.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby hoops777 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:02 pm

Doc I did not know that.I have read so many posts saying you cannot buy admiral shares at Schwab that I have not yet tried.Can you buy Wellesley?
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby onourway » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:19 pm

I have just opened a checking account with Schwab. Customer service has been very good, although the information provided after opening the account was lacking (no welcome email, no indication whether debit cards and checks would be mailed automatically, etc.) but the people on the phone were very helpful. I have no real intention of investing with them, although I've been poking through their website to see what they have. I honestly find the Vanguard site much more intuitive to use. Schwab has some decent offerings, but you have to wade through a lot of less stellar offerings to find them. I would suggest most new investors go with Vanguard for this reason alone. I feel it's hard to make a bad choice with them, whereas with Schwab it's much more difficult for a newbie to wade through the offerings.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby Doc » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:19 am

hoops777 wrote:Doc I did not know that.I have read so many posts saying you cannot buy admiral shares at Schwab that I have not yet tried.Can you buy Wellesley?

As far as I know you cannot buy Vg admiral at Schwab. I was addressing that there are good alternatives to index admiral funds. It's the active funds that are problematic. I use mostly active Vanguard bond funds. If I was to move the position to Schwab I would probably just use an ETF but not Vg's. (I do not like Vg's habit of using "non-standard" indices.)
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby ps56k » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:24 am


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LadyGeek
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby LadyGeek » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:01 am

This thread is now in the Investing - Help with Personal Investments forum (portfolio help).

InvestorNewb wrote:Don't forget you are asking this on a Vanguard forum. :happy

If it wasn't for Vanguard, many of these other companies wouldn't be lowering their fees. You have to give credit where it is due.

Not quite. We follow the man, not the company. If someone has a better offering than Vanguard, go for it.

The wiki has a list: Investment management company ("See also")
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby Sandtrap » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:13 am

Schwab - checking, basic low ER funds, awesome customer service, physical locations.
Vanguard - wide array of low ER funds.
IMHO

confusedinvestor
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby confusedinvestor » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:09 pm

Schwab has lower ER ETFs vs Vanguard

Schwab is today's Vanguard

Vanguard will die soon or may be already in coma

Sandtrap wrote:Schwab - checking, basic low ER funds, awesome customer service, physical locations.
Vanguard - wide array of low ER funds.
IMHO

confusedinvestor
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby confusedinvestor » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:35 pm

LadyGeek,

Given this wiki is 6 year old and not updated, this will mis-lead new folks like myself. Please help review this ?

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/inv ... index_etfs

Schwab ETFs are much cheaper vs Vanguard.

Bogleheads needs to open up beyond Jack Bogle and Vanguard and test latest market leaders ...I have no affiliation with Schwab as I'm a AT&T Enginner, and only understand 0 or 1, not ETFs vs Mutual Funds...

LadyGeek wrote:
The wiki has a list: Investment management company ("See also")

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby Chip » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:55 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:Vanguard will die soon or may be already in coma


That's hysterical. Want to give us a date as to when they'll be belly up?

Here's an trick question for you: how much in assets under management did Vanguard lose last year?

bondsr4me
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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby bondsr4me » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:00 pm

Now that VG no longer has the cheapest fees, things may get interesting.
Schwab and Fidelity both have excellent service and websites, which IMHO VG is very lacking.
If you are a buy and hold investor, then 4.95 commission is totally inconsequential, at least to me.
i am sure CS and Fido both make mistakes, but it seems, at least from posts here, that VG gets the lowest grade.
If VG doesn't/can't straighten the 'course' it is navigating, the good ship may run onto dry ground.
For the record, I use CS, VG, Fidelity and TDA, but that is gonna change this year.
I will most likely use CS as my goto broker.
IMHO, they have the best 'total' business for me.
And yes, I am a huge JB fan, let there be no mistake about it.
Happy Spring to everyone.
Don

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Re: Schwab vs Vanguard

Postby ps56k » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:05 pm

I posted this in another new topic thread -
but it might be an interesting read on this thread - ETF vs Mutual Fund -
If you are going to put all your investment eggs into a single basket -
would a shift from each mutual fund to ETFs also be part of that overall scenario ?
Why hold the mutual fund at each company, when you could go with the ETF, and also be more liquid -

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/could-3-trillion-shift-investing-140300275.html


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