POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here.

My experience with ending a relationship with an advisor is ...

I did break-up with advisor and found it easy to do
104
31%
I did break-up with advisor and found it hard to do
21
6%
I have/had advisor, but find/found it hard to take action to end it
17
5%
I have/had an advisor, and find/found it easy to take action to end it
21
6%
I have never had an advisor that I paid for on a continuing basis
143
42%
I do not have an advisor now, but I intend to pay one in the future
3
1%
None of the above apply to me
28
8%
 
Total votes: 337

Topic Author
livesoft
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POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by livesoft »

This poll is inspired by some recent threads about advisors and specifically moving assets away from advisors towards do-it-yourself investing.

This poll allows multiple answers and re-voting. For instance, one can have had an adivsor and found it hard to break up with them, but went to another advisor afterwards and found it easy to break up with them, then went to another advisor and is still with them, ….

For the purposes of this poll, an advisor is a person, persons, or firm that you voluntarily pay/paid extra money for advice or managing your portfolio ON A CONTINUING basis. It does not include a high-fee 401(k) plan that you had to use because that is what your employer provided. Nor does it include one-time consultations for advice, but no ongoing management.

OK, I realize the poll is messy, so one can re-vote and select more than one option.

Thanks for participation.
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chaz
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by chaz »

Never used one - no need.
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cfs
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by cfs »

Two applicable options.

Breaking up was easy to do but I never paid on a continuing basis.

Thanks for reading.
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Wildebeest
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Wildebeest »

I picked the last option: none of this applies to me.

I have never had an advisor and I plan never to pay for one while keeping in mind the saying: a doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient.
The Golden Rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
Average Investor
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Average Investor »

Breaking up was hard to do.

My advisor at Merrill Lynch did not want to release funds located in multiple accounts and gave excuse after excuse to delay the process. Altogether it took more than half a year to accomplish.
Tomorrow never knows.
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Toons
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Toons »

Easy to do ,take the emotion (feelings) out of the equation,it is your money you are in the captains chair.
99% of time it can be done online .Who's the Boss anyway :happy
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dbr
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by dbr »

We left a trust account when the trust was broken up and the successor individual accounts that resulted from that . There was never any problem and all the individuals involved were both professional and congenial. A trust is a trust and has its reasons, and the folks over there behaved impeccably. I would not recommend anyone open an account with the individual advisory group, but the problem was/is not beyond the conventional disadvantages of that business model. The people involved I would not say bad things about other than being in that business in the first place, just as many others are.
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oldzey
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by oldzey »

Had an advisor who was a friend back around 1999. After discovering index funds and losing about 25% on his dot com recommendations over the next couple years, I transferred my assets to Vanguard in 2004 and bid him farewell. :D
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ubaisore
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by ubaisore »

I think my thread may be one of the ones that prompted this poll...

I think I was very forward thinking for retirement. I was doing ROTH's and education IRA's, etc from my 20's. Then I got concerned that I didn't have the time to rebalance, etc and wanted someone to watch my money (big lapse in thinking there). And the 1% didn't sound horrible as I envisioned the advisor being creative, helping with minimizing taxes, etc. I think there are a decent number of people that did the same type of thing. And I can tell you that thinking about calling and getting the hard sell to stay is tough. I envision me having to go cold just like breaking up with a girl that wants to stay together (and like they have done to me LOL).

I just hope I can direct more people to this site and help open their eyes. When I thought about it, not compounding, he would have gotten 40% of my nest egg for doing mainly what an algorithm can for the most part. This epiphany all started by using Feex and when I saw how high the fees were on various funds, I realize he was probably also getting more money for purchasing those funds.
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Tycoon
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Tycoon »

My deeply ingrained cynicism never allowed me to have an advisor.
Emotionless, prognostication free investing. Ignoring the noise and economists since 1979. Getting rich off of "smart people's" behavioral mistakes.
2beachcombers
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by 2beachcombers »

Left advisor after 3 yrs of missing their own benchmark :oops:
i spent these 3 yrs bogleheading and reading many books.

Evaluated 3 other firms--found out I had to educate them on SS options, tax advantage placement, Deferred comp, Roth/IRA conversions, and one wanted 2x what i was paying for the one I dumped. :twisted:

net ; DYI with Bernstein's IDA portfolio for the last 4 yrs, have beat my benchmark and saved 30k/yr fees on top of that. :sharebeer

jerry--edit for /yr correction
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pennstater2005
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by pennstater2005 »

We both cried. Just kidding :) I asked about index funds and he told me they were overrated. I'm not an idiot, or at least I like to think I'm not, and I knew something was up. Bye bye!
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The Wizard
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by The Wizard »

Never had a financial advisor. Closest situation was an insurance agent right after college and marriage. Life, car and home insurance with the guy but found cheaper and better elsewhere and he was upset when we left...
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sans souliers
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by sans souliers »

Tycoon wrote:My deeply ingrained cynicism never allowed me to have an advisor.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Sometimes pessimism leaves me pretty well prepared for when things don't go my way, and pleasantly surprised when they do.
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nisiprius
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by nisiprius »

My employer's Fidelity-managed 401(k) offered a free annual "retirement checkup," and I went to one as I approached retirement. In many ways I was very favorably impressed. The advisor had "CFP" on his card. He did not do any hard sell. (Well, when he learned that I liked Vanguard's index funds, he did mention the Spartan funds, he did mention that I could hold my Vanguard index funds at Fidelity--and he did fail to mention Fidelity's $75 transaction fee. All fair enough, in my opinion). As with the retirement seminars Fidelity gave at my employer's workplace, it was wide-ranging and discussed many aspects of retirement, investment only being a part.

Unfortunately, he gave me incorrect information about Social Security.

He mentioned the withholding of benefits due to the earned income limit. I said yes, but that it was actuarially neutral and balanced by a benefit increase at full retirement age. Unfortunately, he told me--with an air of complete certainty and authority--that I was mistaken on that point. It was probably good for me to spend the few hours that it took, later on, double-checking my understanding. I think the thing I could not forgive was that instead of expressing uncertainty and offering to check and get back to me, he told me flatly that I was wrong.

Naaah, I never complained, never explained, I never got back to him, I just didn't go to any more "retirement checkups."
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by sschullo »

sans souliers wrote:
Tycoon wrote:My deeply ingrained cynicism never allowed me to have an advisor.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Yea! After getting burned by an annuity selling, self serving insurance agent, my cynicism and a motivation to help my teacher colleagues develop theirs was way beyond even my expectations.
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
Furynation
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Furynation »

I've never had to breakup with an advisor for me (I've never had one), but I had to do so when I took over a relative's finances. After a couple of phone calls with the advisor, where I had to advise my relative to not answer the phone after we got done speaking because the advisor would probably try calling behind my back (he did), we made it happen and got assets moved. Not an enjoyable time.
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VictoriaF
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by VictoriaF »

I never had an adviser and I am glad that I did not. As Bill Bernstein once said, if you know how to select an adviser you don't need one.

I am more competent in the matters of my personal finance than most advisers would be. While I may be missing some tax efficiencies, the malevolence and incompetence I am avoiding more than compensates for that. And when I pick up some useful tips on this site or in personal discussions with other Bogleheads, I can be sure in their value.

Here is a recent example. Last week, I met with my agency's HR specialist about my upcoming retirement. We got into a discussion whether I should retire on 24 September or on 30 September. If I retire on 30 September, I'll use my accumulated annual leave for the last four working days. Salary-wise, the options are equal: I will be paid the same amount either in the form of vacation pay or unused annual leave. However, if it's vacation pay, the Agency will match my TSP contributions for these four days; if it's unused leave, it won't. The HR specialist could not understand this simple logic and started describing how I could change my TSP contributions to meet the annual limit. She was answering the question I did not ask while ignoring the merit of my logic.

I did not persist in proving myself right. If taking leave on the final few days of employment is allowed, I'll take it. If it's not allowed, it's a moot point. The OPM rules are ambiguous and are subject to interpretation. But I am describing this as an example of knowing something better than a professional who sincerely is trying to help me.

Victoria
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JDDS
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by JDDS »

Telling my advisor that I was switching to DYI was challenging. I guess that's what happens when you like the person and are not totally unhappy with their services. Mechanically moving my money was pretty easy.
14thMed
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by 14thMed »

He broke up with me. Wanted to start actively trading my account. I said no. He said BYE. Best thing that ever happened.
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Toons
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Toons »

Advisors have a job to do,they need to make a living like everyone else,I don't begrudge them,for many an individual they provide valuable services. :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
core4portfolio
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by core4portfolio »

I polled on I have never had an advisor that I paid for on a continuing basis

But Yes, I have advisor- I call them as bogleheads :)
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bloom2708
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by bloom2708 »

As far as "doing the right thing" it wasn't hard to "break up " with my EJ advisor.

Logistically it was a long process. Every step took longer than I expected. The advisor was a friend which complicated the scenarios.

A lot of "talking me out of it". Going in stages. Just keep that here. Slow balling.

I "won out" and am very content with our Vanguard 3 fund style portfolio.
Johnjay
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Johnjay »

Used the same adviser since graduating college 20 years ago. Was nervous about the break up but he said he said understood. Turned out not as bad as I thought it would be.
Beerwolf
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Beerwolf »

Had an advisor (employed at big bank), got tired of his constant, expensive shuffling of shares, read a few books and discovered john Bogle. It was both easy and very enjoyable to get rid of that advisor and his employers!
I've no doubt that I have done far better with my investments than my "advisor" had.
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Frugal Al
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Frugal Al »

Toons wrote:Advisors have a job to do,they need to make a living like everyone else,I don't begrudge them,for many an individual they provide valuable services. :happy
Toons, I know you well enough from your postings that you are referring to "good" advisors. I definitely agree they can provide valuable services. The problem is there are too many who call themselves financial advisors, yet they have no desire to provide fiduciary responsibility, and they are poorly trained. They are a detriment to their client's financial well being, and are little more than parasites--providing negative value added.
yeamon
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by yeamon »

The actual decision to fire my advisor was not that difficult, it was swift and immediate. Because of the state of the accounts and funds I allowed him to set up over time, the transfer was difficult and time consuming. Having access to the community and resources of the Bogleheads helped guide me through the process.

The most difficult part of firing my advisor was facing the hard truth that I had been, for a long time, unforgivably detached from my own finances. A detachment I'm quite sure I wore like a uniform into my biannual meetings with my advisor, who knew exactly what he had to work with. Not trying to be dramatic, there was nothing criminal or even especially malicious about the way this person conducted business. Just a steady track record of setting up accounts and churning funds that emphasized a return for him, and not for me.

The fact it took me several years to take the initiative to educate myself enough to even recognize a problem, that's still difficult to admit.
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FelixTheCat
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by FelixTheCat »

My advisor lost 2/3 of my IRA with risky investments. Put me in whole life insurance.

When I finally understood what he did, it was easy for me to say Adios!
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gb24
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by gb24 »

It was an "easy" breakup with my Morgan Stanley advisor even after 20 years. After many years of ignorance, I started asking questions about costs and index funds after reading the authors suggested here.

Thankful for all the guidance, especially Mr. Bogle's foundational books.

We are comfortable and confident after moving to a Vanguard three fund portfolio.
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VictoriaF
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by VictoriaF »

Toons wrote:Advisors have a job to do,they need to make a living like everyone else,I don't begrudge them,for many an individual they provide valuable services. :happy
Let's calculate the expected value of a financial adviser. Here are some assumptions based on the Bogleheads stories:

1. 10% of advisers are helpful. 90% are greedy.
2. Helpful advisers increase your total wealth by 20%.
3. Greedy advisers decrease your total wealth by 40%.

Under these assumptions, the expected value of an arbitrary adviser's impact is:

10%*20% - 90%*40% = 2% - 36% = -34%

By getting an adviser one is expected to end up 1/3 poorer.

Victoria
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bcjb
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by bcjb »

We've never had an advisor, but if we change our minds, we'll make sure not to hire a friend. It's easy to see (also from stories on this forum) how that might get awkward.
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Zabar
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Zabar »

We've had an independent advisor who was recommended by our CPA for the past few years, and have been very pleased. We use her much more for financial planning and less for investment planning, so I'm getting help where I'm weakest. AUM fees are well under 1%. She uses a Boglehead approach. No need to break up. But if I do, it will be simple.
abyan
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by abyan »

Had a horrible adviser who was passive-aggressive, liked shutting you down when you started asking too many questions, enjoyed using the over-your-head gobblygook to utterly confuse you if you (again) started asking too many questions. And he somehow managed to lose me a ton of money in the past 4 years. Because he was such a jerk it was horrible breaking up with him, but I'm so glad I did, and I took my parents, brother and nephew with me (and soon will be contacting the Feds about him). Are there advisers who aren't crooks? I remain unconvinced that the entire business isn't built on utter dishonesty, particularly with regard to the fees morass. I remain seriously ticked off by what he did to me and my family.

Yes I'm still a wee bit bitter. :-)
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Milano
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Milano »

I posted this before:

My parents opened a ML IRA, annuity and a cash management account in 1985 while I was a student. Unfortunately I neglected this until I has to take money out due to job loss after the recession. I transferred all to a local office and in the process I was 'twisted ' or 'switched' into a new more expensive annuity when I was unemployed and have been needing liquidity for several years. It took a year of complaints and FINRA to get out of the annuity. Upon closing the account we found that a IRA deposit to my wife IRA was never deposited on the wrong assumption that I maximized my IRA contributions and my was was therefore not allowed to deposit into her IRA.

I am guilty of neglecting this account for too long, until I was forced by financial circumstanced after the recession to learn more about what I had.

I consider the years spent with ML one of the worst mistakes of my life comparable to a divorce.

I got out of ML by Googling "Merrill Lynch bad investment" Google found someone on this site whose signature read that getting out of ML was the best investment decision he ever made.
panzer
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by panzer »

It was kind of tragic, knew the guy through mutual connections. I also asked him to take me off the Christmas card list. I mean, it's such a waste and all.
Run4Fun
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Run4Fun »

I'd been with my advisor for about 10 years before the "break-up". At the start of this year, I had a plan to take a year and learn more about my investments. I read this site almost daily coupled with the books from the list. I moved the time table on my plan up when I saw the fund with a 5% front load and 2.25% ER :oops:. Now in Vanguard, have a planned AA, and after the dust settles will enjoy not making my advisor rich! :beer
WHL
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by WHL »

Doesn't apply to me, but I got all of my parents money away from Edward jones and into vanguard late last year / early this year. We're very happy with the move.

It wasn't hard for me, obviously, but once I showed my mom the reasons to move and the ridiculous amount of lost money over the bull run we've been having, it wasn't hard for her either.
JoshCine
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by JoshCine »

When I first started, I was following Dave Ramsey as he was what my high school used to teach finance. Following him through, he guaranteed (literally, in one of our school videos, GUARANTEED) you could get an average 12% return per year. Being a stupid senior in high school, I found his recommended advisor and signed right up. 5.57% front end load. .7% yearly management. All for a fund that got so big (AGHTX) that it became mirroring the index. No 12%. I broke it off but it was hard as he was good and trying that ole personal connection, etc.

Just got my money out. Will be putting it mainly into Vangaurd Total Stock Market
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GerryL
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by GerryL »

sans souliers wrote:
Tycoon wrote:My deeply ingrained cynicism never allowed me to have an advisor.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Ditto. By the time I had learned enough to feel confident about picking an advisor, I felt confident enough to be my own advisor.
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meowcat
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by meowcat »

In the beginning, it mostly sounds like this:

"My financial adviser would never do that to me."

But in the end, it almost always sounds like this:

"I can't believe my financial adviser did that to me!"
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ruralavalon
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by ruralavalon »

We had an advisor years ago, a family friend at Solomon Smith Barney. Broke up because of the high fees and the lack of planning advice.

We found it easy to break up, we just got the necessary paper work and had Vanguard assist with the transfer. We are still on friendly terms with him.
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Gnirk
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Gnirk »

My advisor was a long-time friend, over 30 years. I turned to her many years ago when I had about $25,000 to invest. She bought some good individual stocks. She ended up selling those and buying some CEFs that turned out to be the worst ever, and I subsequently sold those. My husband and I then held only high quality munis in our individual accounts. (Ameriprise).

Last week we decided to simplify our life, and consolidate all of our investments at Vanguard, where we hold most of our investments. I emailed her to let her know what we were doing and why, and said I hoped it wouldn't affect our friendship. Her reply was not particularly nice.
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nedsaid
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by nedsaid »

Years ago, I had a Bank CD IRA at a bank. A friend of mine went into the brokerage business and I took that account to him. He lasted a year and I got passed on to another broker. Broker #2 I was actually with maybe 5-6 years, he moved up to being manager of the office. I was dropped as he concentrated on his larger clients. Broker #3 was nice, he wanted me to roll my mutual fund IRA over to him. I said no and he lost interest and dropped me. I was too small and didn't want to trade very much. I went on to Broker #4 who I liked very much. He left the firm and I followed him over to a new firm. I am still with Broker #4. So you might say that I was transferred once due to my friend leaving the business and fired twice by two other brokers.

I did start an account with another advisor, it was quite small and moved to over to Broker #4.

Most of my retirement accounts are self directed, the brokerage IRA with Broker #4 is only part of my retirement and a portion of that is invested in ETFs based on indexes.

So I fired one advisor, got transferred once, and got fired as a client twice. I "fired" investment firms four times. I moved a workplace savings plan from an insurance company to my favorite mutual fund company which my employer allowed. I did a 401k rollover from my employer to my favorite mutual fund company when I left the company. When Broker #4 left his major brokerage firm and went to a competitor, I moved my account with him. I rolled a small investment account from an advisor to Broker #4.

I am a pretty nice guy, I got "fired" twice and fired an advisor once. I for the most part have stayed with the people and firms that I have worked with. I am not one for moving around.
A fool and his money are good for business.
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livesoft
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by livesoft »

Bookkeeping note for the future: I started a thread about 2 write-ups in the WSJ this week about firing one's financial advisor:
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 1&t=145841

One of the write-ups is testimonial from the editor of Wealth Management coverage and the other is a "How to".
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StevieG72
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by StevieG72 »

I was looking for investment advice, where to park some money. Financial advisor thought whole life would be a GREAT idea! I decided to purchase term, which I do need, and invest on my own via Vangaurd. So glad I did not pull the trigger on whole life.
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pkcrafter
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by pkcrafter »

Well, 45 posts now, but there must be 50 ways to leave your advisor. :happy

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Riceman
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Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Riceman »

Ironically, I have learned far more about advisors since joining this site. Before, I never had any contact with advisors or their products, I never met anyone who had, and I guess I assumed that at my level of assets (low six-figures), paying a professional for investment advice would be counter-productive.

I grew up with a small inheritance that was invested in columbia funds, and I remember checking them on occasion. When I was in college, I decided to take control of that money. I knew my father had vanguard funds, and after comparing their performance to that of my columbia funds, I quickly decided that I should transfer everything to vanguard (apparently my father was aware that my funds weren't doing well, but never got around to moving them). When I started investing new earned money, I started putting everything in vanguard and TSP.

To this day, I've never met an investment adviser or had a friend recommend one. I imagine this might relate to my age (30), profession (government), and the fact that I have been living overseas. Another factor may be the relationship people in my age cohort have to services--I have never met with an insurance agent, a physical bank worker, a travel agent, etc., and I feel far more comfortably managing such services online, by myself. Regardless, I have been lucky to never have had obstacles on my index-investing path.
LeeMKE
Posts: 2233
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by LeeMKE »

I'd done a great job of managing my accounts for years. But when the portfolio hit 3/4 million ahead of the pro forma, I got scared that it was too much money for me to manage appropriately, and turned it over to an investment advisor who had an approach I approved of. After a few months, the account didn't seem to be behaving according to the investment approach described to me. Another few months and it is obvious the approach has changed as the balance is charging higher very quickly. When I finally went in to find out what was going on, I realized this guy had never ridden a market downturn, and I had several. This guy got embarrassed when the dot com bubble started to make his approach look bad, so he shifted over to high tech stocks without providing notice to we investors. And then he was spooked when some investors complained about the tax burden -- even though this was disclosed that tax deferred accounts only should be invested because they were not going to manage for long term gains.

I took back management and realized no one would take better care of my money than I.

Years later, I married a man who had his account with a large brokerage firm, invested in some high fee mutual funds (well, at least they weren't churning the account with stock trades.). The broker wanted to pass the account over to a junior guy, and they came to meet with us. The junior guy pitched his recommendation that we move this small portfolio to Korean Stocks. He tried to convince us that this risky move was necessary to "catch up" at which point I went ballistic.

At that point, I gave up and took over managing the account. I'd been reluctant to become fiduciary on his account, partly because it was a second marriage and those have a poor track record for surviving. But it was obvious I couldn't do worse than these goofballs.

I occasionally listen to pitches for advisors, willing to learn and open to some nuggets I hadn't considered. One recent one was pitching hard on their contrarian approach. But they were shy on the fee arrangement and nothing on their prior performance. When I finally wormed the information out of them, the fees were over 4 percent per annum, and the annual performance was 8 percentage points below my own performance during that same period. Sometimes you have to laugh, but I do wonder what happens to the folks who keep these guys in fancy cars and suits.
The mightiest Oak is just a nut who stayed the course.
Sirjames
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:53 pm

Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by Sirjames »

Helping an 80s year old family member with his accounts... in a high cost Ameriprise situation.

Does anyone know if it is possible to cancel/fire an Ameriprise advisor but otherwise maintain all funds as-is with Ameriprise? There is one IRA account and one taxable brokerage account. (Wondering if the advisor costs are required with the mutual funds he has, or if it’s similar to vanguard and others where the advisor services are optional?)

Even though the expense ratios are higher than I’d like to see (overall averaging 0.40%), they could be much worse! Asset allocation is acceptable for him as well. Eliminating the >1.0% advisor fees would be good enough for now.

Thanks!
Patience is the ultimate hedge
moehoward
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:16 am

Re: POLL: Breaking up with advisor

Post by moehoward »

My moment came about 25 years ago when my broker lost a good amount on a "great stock". He actually said, "that's my fault". Hmmm, I was the only one who took a loss. 3 months later, everything moved to Vanguard. Lost some money but learned to manage my money myself. (I actually do a better job)
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