How Much Did You Lose Today?

Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here.

How Much Did You Lose Today?

I was even, or up a bit
7
2%
Less than 1%
88
31%
Around 1 - 2%
181
63%
Bloodbath
10
3%
 
Total votes: 286

john94549
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How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by john94549 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:01 pm

Just to prove how much even a "bad day" (S+P 500 down 2%) matters little for properly-diversified Bogleheads, I thought I'd run this poll. When considering your vote, count all investable assets. I suspect the results will illustrate the fact that most Bogleheads are quite diversified.

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ObliviousInvestor
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by ObliviousInvestor » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:04 pm

Need option for "don't know, probably not going to check." :)
Mike Piper, author/blogger

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joe8d
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by joe8d » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:04 pm

I lost 10 to 20 K today, but what made me mad was my STIG bond was up and it was reinvestment day :(
All the Best, | Joe

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Zapped
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by Zapped » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:06 pm

Unchanged. I own exactly the same fraction of the total U.S. equities, international equities, and total bond market as I did yesterday. And get this - tomorrow I'll also own exactly the same fraction of those markets as I own today.
- Jim in Austin, TX

john94549
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by john94549 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:07 pm

ObliviousInvestor wrote:Need option for "don't know, probably not going to check." :)


Even the most Oblivious Investor peeks.

209south
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by 209south » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:08 pm

After many great days/weeks/months this was a tough day - I am very diversified but everything was red today...domestic/international/emerging equities down, bonds/TIPs/international bonds/junk down, gold down, REITs down...was anything up today?

John3754
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by John3754 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:12 pm

No idea how much my portfolio is down because I don't care and didn't look. Even if it is down, I lost nothing because I sold nothing.
Last edited by John3754 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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cheese_breath
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by cheese_breath » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:13 pm

Nothing because it's not a loss unless I sell.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

tigermilk
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by tigermilk » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:15 pm

Who cares? Still at least 10-15 years from retirement. I did put an order in for more taxable shares today to take advantage of the drop.

john94549
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by john94549 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:18 pm

Perhaps equities shape a greater portion of Bogleheads' portfolios than I might have assumed. Perhaps it is fair to say that recency bias has over-whelmed "age-in-bonds", and that many favor greater equity percentages than before.

It will be interesting to see if a major Bear market (which many predict) shifts stuff around.

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Garco
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by Garco » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:20 pm

I lost ~1% in my main 401k and supplemental qualified funds. But significantly less in my taxable account, which is much more conservative and includes a significant amount of cash and represents about 1/3 of my total investments.
Last edited by Garco on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ged
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by Ged » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:23 pm

john94549 wrote:
ObliviousInvestor wrote:Need option for "don't know, probably not going to check." :)


Even the most Oblivious Investor peeks.


I don't peek on down days. Only up.

john94549
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by john94549 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:26 pm

OK, OK, don't get technical on me. I assumed you all knew "on paper".

LFKB
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by LFKB » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:27 pm

No idea, didn't check. I did buy some TSM, TISM and Small Cap Index today though.

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by Epsilon Delta » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:28 pm

john94549 wrote:
ObliviousInvestor wrote:Need option for "don't know, probably not going to check." :)


Even the most Oblivious Investor peeks.


If you haven't set up some sort of portfolio tracking it's a lot of work to peek. So I don't peek. I just wait for the quarterly statement.

Trader Joe
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by Trader Joe » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:31 pm

None. Went to the sidelines 2 weeks ago. Today was just the beginning...

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nisiprius
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by nisiprius » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:32 pm

I don't know. What was it, about a 2% drop in stocks? I could multiply 2% x my stock allocation x my portfolio size, I guess.

If we get 2% drops ten days in a row I will start paying attention. It won't do me any good, but I will start paying attention.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

island
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by island » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:41 pm

Curious to know what those who chose it, define a bloodbath? Or anyone else?

munemaker
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by munemaker » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:41 pm

Why would/should I care about this?

BillyG
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by BillyG » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:42 pm

I had new money to invest today so I bought Total Stock Market Index at the end of the day. It's great to get it at a discount compared to yesterday. I wonder how much I saved today?

I didn't sell any funds today so I didn't "lose" anything.

Billy

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carorun
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by carorun » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:43 pm

It's not bad for me if the market drops on the day my 401k deposit is made. Buy low baby :beer

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papito23
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by papito23 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:44 pm

Not enough. Made some greenbacks at a market peak & low interest rate environment... so I need a buying opportunity!
A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise. -Aldo Leopold's Golden Rule of Ecology

Working2notWork
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by Working2notWork » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:48 pm

Probably lost around 1-2%, but I also bought around $13,000 of VSS.

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Aptenodytes
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by Aptenodytes » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:48 pm

209south wrote:After many great days/weeks/months this was a tough day - I am very diversified but everything was red today...domestic/international/emerging equities down, bonds/TIPs/international bonds/junk down, gold down, REITs down...was anything up today?

I don't know. My portfolio has plummeted to June 2014 levels! The horror.

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cfs
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by cfs » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:49 pm

Don't know.

Don't know the percentage of losses today, probably less than 1% based on my imperfect SWAN (sleep well at night) allocation, but tomorrow is our regular investment day (every other Friday) and I look forward to a good buying day.

Thanks for reading.
~ Donating Member ~

LongerPrimer
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by LongerPrimer » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:53 pm

Trading accounts only (15% of total retirement portfolio). Ignored the dVA's and MF accts. I was surprised to be able to buy my local utility (4.1%div) and a food company (4.5% div) at -1% of bid. I view these dividend payers as bond subsitutes. Cheers :beer

Still up for July. :sharebeer

jf89
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by jf89 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:55 pm

Didn't lose a single share!

My apologies to the retirees in the audience, but this 20-something is rooting for a few more days like today until his bi-weekly automatic purchases go through on Friday and Tuesday.
"Save as much as you can, diversify diversify diversify, and you can't go wrong with tech stocks" | -First investing advice I recall from my parents in the 90's (two outta three ain't bad)

scrabbler1
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by scrabbler1 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:59 pm

I lost 2% in my equity funds but pretty much broke even on the bond funds which are a little more than 50% of my holdings. Hence, I answered 1%-2%.

sscritic
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by sscritic » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:00 pm

I total up over all my accounts the first of every month. That is tomorrow, not today. And once I total up, I will know the change from July 1, not from July 30. I will let you know once I have finished.

John3754
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by John3754 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:05 pm

island wrote:Curious to know what those who chose it, define a bloodbath? Or anyone else?


If someone really feels that a 2% drop in equities is a "bloodbath", what are they going to think if/when there's a 20% drop?

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bru
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by bru » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:18 pm

Trader Joe wrote:None. Went to the sidelines 2 weeks ago. Today was just the beginning...
Beginning of what? A correction? If so, how much will it correct?

If this is indeed the "beginning" it is good that you will be on the sideline. But will you know when to get back in? Or will you stay sidelined like the millions who are still sitting in cash from five years ago?

Lets be sure to revisit this post.

Novine
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by Novine » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:37 pm

Did livesoft report a RBD? If not, I don't consider it a "bloodbath".

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MN-Investor
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by MN-Investor » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:38 pm

I update my investment spreadsheet at the end of the month. I just finished putting in July numbers. I can't tell you a daily change, but we are down 2.01% for the month, down .38% for the year. Nothing I'm going to worry about.
The key to success - Save early, save often, invest well.

dewey
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by dewey » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:39 pm

During the last crash (was it 2009???) I stayed the course. I'll do the same now. Age 65. AA is 55/45 equities to bonds. Retired. Sit tight.
“The only freedom that is of enduring importance is freedom of intelligence…”

mortal
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by mortal » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:16 pm

Honestly didn't even realize the stock market fell today. I still haven't checked how my portfolio did, nor do I intend to.

I always like to keep a little bit sitting in cash till either the end of the month, or a bad drop. Whadya know, today was both! Orders submitted!

It's inconsequential in the big scheme of things, but it does strangely make me feel better.

DVMResident
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by DVMResident » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:22 pm

-1.07%

Awesome, my 401k contribution goes into tomorrow 8-)

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market timer
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by market timer » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:37 pm

-0.16%

Considering stocks, bonds, and commodities sold off today, tough not to lose money unless you were short.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by BrandonBogle » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:38 pm

Aptenodytes wrote:
209south wrote:After many great days/weeks/months this was a tough day - I am very diversified but everything was red today...domestic/international/emerging equities down, bonds/TIPs/international bonds/junk down, gold down, REITs down...was anything up today?

I don't know. My portfolio has plummeted to June 2014 levels! The horror.


:)

pkcrafter
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by pkcrafter » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:50 pm

What, did something happen?

Note on the several people who said they didn't lose anything because they didn't sell. I think that is the best way to view down days for full blown crashes, it can provide psychological support. Whatever happens, you still own the same number of shares as someone pointed out--only the price as fluctuated.

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

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Average Investor
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by Average Investor » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:07 am

I took advantage today with a modest rebalance to my target allocation. It was the first time I've rebalanced other than with new funds. It was good practice to buy the "losers."
Tomorrow never knows.

sscritic
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by sscritic » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:18 am

pkcrafter wrote:What, did something happen?

Note on the several people who said they didn't lose anything because they didn't sell. I think that is the best way to view down days for full blown crashes, it can provide psychological support. Whatever happens, you still own the same number of shares as someone pointed out--only the price as fluctuated.

What is psychology? Will it pay your bills in retirement? In 2001, I lost a lot of money, but I didn't sell anything. In 2008, I lost a lot of money, but I didn't sell anything. From 2007 to 2010, my house lost 50% of its value, but I didn't sell it.* Selling and losing money have nothing to do with each other. You can sell without losing, and you can lose without selling.

I didn't sell anything today, and I won't sell anything next week, but if the market is down 15% next week, I am not going to lie to myself ** and pretend I didn't lose anything.

* Another lie. I didn't have a house, but if I had, I would not have sold it.

** I may lie on bogleheads, but I try not to lie to myself. I have too much respect for myself.

Tanelorn
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by Tanelorn » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:32 am

I bought a little today, but expect I will regret it.

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grayfox
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by grayfox » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:36 am

I did not vote, because I don't know.

How does anyone even know how much their balanced changed from yesterday? You would have had to record the balance yesterday and then check it again today. Who here is recording their balance daily? Even madsinger only issues his report on a monthly basis.

Here is the reality. You save some money each month, or each pay period, and make an investment by purchasing, say, $1000 of an S&P 500 index fund and re-invest all the distributions. In 20 years, this will become some amount of money in a wide range of possible outcomes. Maybe the range is from $1,500 to $27,100 dollars. The average might be $7,200. Actually, it may do better or worse than $1,500 to $27,100, but that was the range in the past.

The only thing that matters is where it ends up on the day you liquidate your shares. The intermediate values are irrelevant. In fact, after 3 years, range might be $210 to $2,720.So it is not unusual to be negative after 3, 5 or even 10 years. Here is worst real return after 1-30 years. After about 20 years, it's been positive.

Image

Checking your balance every daily on a multi-decade investment can only be called obsessive behavior, which may be a sign of mental illness. :D
Last edited by grayfox on Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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letsgobobby
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by letsgobobby » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:46 am

C'mon, one bad day? We're what, 3% off an all time record high? And we're already asking how much we lost?

In 2011 I at least had the patience to wait two whole weeks!

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79753

TexasTeacher
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by TexasTeacher » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:48 am

I check mine daily, but that is just because it's "new" and I think it's neat. We will see when it finally starts to bore me. It's still around 35-40 years before I retire.

I am happy with my portfolio. I am big time into growth right now and only lost a little over 1%. That's pretty darn good considering to me (the newbie investor)

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market timer
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by market timer » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:49 am

grayfox wrote:The only thing that matters is where it ends up on the day you liquidate your shares. The intermediate values are irrelevant.

While I agree with the sentiment, the expected value at liquidation is a function of those intermediate values. There is one exception: TIPS held to maturity (assuming we are talking about buying power, and ignore some complications like the deflation put and taxes).

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pjstack
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by pjstack » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:51 am

Well, you made me look!

I lost $755 (and some cents).

I don't remember exactly what I had yesterday vs. what I have today, so I can't really do the arithmetic to do a precise percentage calculation, nor is it worth the little effort it would take.
pjstack

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Dale_G
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by Dale_G » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:04 am

I lost money today (07/31/14). The fact that I didn't sell anything has nothing to do with it. On 07/30/14 a sale of my portfolio would have provided some number of actual dollars. At the close of business on 07/31/14 , my portfolio would have only provided .987 times as many actual dollars. 1.3% was lost. If any of the companies that I own (indirectly) lose inventory to a non-insured theft, or a fire and don't write their assets down because they haven't sold it I would be furious - and they would be subject to claims of fraud.

It is okay to lose money, but folks should be honest about it, and not pretend that nothing has happened. On the other side of the coin, if the market is up, I suspect that most folks believe they made money! :?

Care to have your cake and eat it to?

Dale
Volatility is my friend

island
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by island » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:09 am

John3754 wrote:
island wrote:Curious to know what those who chose it, define a bloodbath? Or anyone else?


If someone really feels that a 2% drop in equities is a "bloodbath", what are they going to think if/when there's a 20% drop?


That's what I was thinking!
Any idea what the worst single day drop was when the stock market tanked in 2008 and 2000?
I need to Google that.

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grayfox
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Re: How Much Did You Lose Today?

Post by grayfox » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:10 am

market timer wrote:
grayfox wrote:The only thing that matters is where it ends up on the day you liquidate your shares. The intermediate values are irrelevant.

While I agree with the sentiment, the expected value at liquidation is a function of those intermediate values. There is one exception: TIPS held to maturity (assuming we are talking about buying power, and ignore some complications like the deflation put and taxes).


It seems like investors are viewing their entire portfolio balance as a single lump-sum investment made today.

A better way to look at it is many separate investment made at different times for different holding periods. Say you invest $10,000 once per year for 40 years while you are working. Then at the end of 40 years, you retire and liquidate everything to purchase and annuity.

The first investment Year 0 $10,000 is held for 40 years. It might end up anywhere from $58,000 to $1,400,000
Year 10 investment is held for 30 years, and might end up $29,000 to $55,000
Year 20 investment might end up $15,000 to $27,000
Year 30 investment might end up $6,70 to $68,000
After that you would probably be buying Treasuries or TIPS every year.

Now you might start checking the values at some point like Year 15 and liquidate early if the stock market is way up. That is about the only reason to be checking, i.e. if you have some plan to sell if your goal is reached ahead of schedule. People nearing retirement maybe should be checking their balance.
Last edited by grayfox on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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