85 yr old dad making financial moves

Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here.
Post Reply
Topic Author
chrisjul
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:15 pm

85 yr old dad making financial moves

Post by chrisjul »

I found today that my Dad, who is losing it rather quickly, has recently made a sizable investment with "FTB Advisors". I believe this is a wealth management organization associated with First Tennessee Bank.

He has asked for my help in "organizing" his finances. He does not recall where his financial assets are located.

Any thoughts or advice? I am curious as to the fees associated with this "wealth management" and do not have Power of Atty. The investments in which they have his money are investments I could make in Vanguard with minimal fees. Anyone know this company?

Tks in advance.
User avatar
archbish99
Posts: 1649
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:02 pm

Re: 85 yr old dad making financial moves

Post by archbish99 »

Not familiar with them in particular, but there are lots of companies that take shameless advantage of older folks. I consolidated my parents investments at Vanguard and saved them a lot in fees; they did a power of attorney when dad was in the hospital for a while.
I'm not a financial advisor, I just play one on the Internet.
User avatar
Jazztonight
Posts: 1333
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: Lake Merritt

Re: 85 yr old dad making financial moves

Post by Jazztonight »

I went through a similar thing with my parents just a few years ago when they were each 90. My wife and sister were in the room when I went down on my knees in front of my parents and begged them to please stop doing what they were doing with their investments, and please let me help them.

It took a lot of persuasion, but we finally convinced my father to bring in an attorney to create a Living Trust, and then make my sister and myself co-trustees of the Trust.

Like your father, they were "losing it." My Dad was doing things like walking into his bank and telling a guy in suit that he had some money to invest, and what would he recommend? Dad wound up putting tens of thousands of dollars into high commission products. It was heart-breaking, but it was his money, and he still appeared to have his faculties.

My parents always had the attitude that a salesman worked for a living and deserved to make his commissions.

Once I was a Trustee, I moved as much as I could into Vanguard, allocated it 10/90, and took a deep sigh of relief.

He still has investments in Annuities and certain IRAs that are not in the Trust, and I've decided to just leave them where they are.

In the last 3 years, my Mom has passed, and my father has advancing dementia. The way we did it, e.g. becoming Trustees, is a lot easier than waiting and having a person declared incompetent, which requires a lot of doctors and paperwork, from what I've been told. When his Trust was created, they also created wills, durable powers of attorney, and medical directives.

The hard part, of course, is to convince the parent to allow you to be the Trustee. Now, whenever I see my Dad, I give him the "good news": "Hey Dad, last month you had $x. But this month, you have $y (the new amount is generally higher since he's mostly in bond funds that are generating dividends). He thanks me profusely for taking care of everything. He no longer remembers the struggles and the arguments, and the begging.

I wish you all the best. I want to repeat to you what a social worker who deals with such issues told me when I sought advice. She said, "You must understand and not forget that this situation will not get better; it will only get worse."
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche
User avatar
black jack
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:13 pm

Re: 85 yr old dad making financial moves

Post by black jack »

Also not familiar with this particular outfit, but familiar with the general dynamic.

When my parents were in their late 70s, I persuaded them to move their retirement assets from a local investment company to a Vanguard index fund.

A few years later they were starting to show some cognitive deficits. One day I learned that that they had attended a "free" estate planning seminar, whose leader had persuaded them to transfer their retirement funds into deferred adjustable indexed annuities - a product that it took me a while to wrap my head around, so no chance that my parents really understood what they had bought (and I could never get an explanation from the salesman as to what the fee for this product was).

I would urge you to get your father to go (with you) to an estate planning attorney, if possible, and get his affairs in order. Ideally, you (a loyal and trustworthy son, I assume) would receive a power of attorney to handle his finances for him.

It can be hard for a parent to turn over control of their finances to their grown child, however much they love and trust them. It can feel like losing control of one's life. And it can be hard for a grown child to push for that, because it involves accepting that one's parent is no longer quite the person you've known all your life. But considering all the scam artists preying on the confusion and fear of the elderly, it is a blessing for a parent to have a child who can do that for them (acknowledging that many of the scam artists preying on the elderly are members of their own family).

PS +1 on what Jazztonight says. A living trust and a power of attorney, which enabled me to take control of my mother's finances after my father's death - which she initially resisted, but has since regularly thanked me for doing - is all that has kept her from losing her home.

[Edited once to acknowledge Jazztonight's post.]
We cannot absolutely prove [that they are wrong who say] that we have seen our best days. But so said all who came before us, and with just as much apparent reason. | -T. B. Macaulay (1800-1859)
Topic Author
chrisjul
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:15 pm

Re: 85 yr old dad making financial moves

Post by chrisjul »

Jazztonite predicted the future: " Like your father, they were "losing it." My Dad was doing things like walking into his bank and telling a guy in suit that he had some money to invest, and what would he recommend? Dad wound up putting tens of thousands of dollars into high commission products. It was heart-breaking, but it was his money, and he still appeared to have his faculties.
My parents always had the attitude that a salesman worked for a living and deserved to make his commissions.'

I sent my Dad to the bank to close one of his several checking accounts and the "Guy in the Suit" talked him OUT of closing the account and INTO buying an annuity.

Ridiculous. The problem is, I am a thousand miles away.

Tks to all for the advice!
User avatar
Jazztonight
Posts: 1333
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: Lake Merritt

Re: 85 yr old dad making financial moves

Post by Jazztonight »

I suppose you could make trouble for the guy at the bank, even though you're not in charge of your father's money.

A little threat, perhaps, that you know that your father went in to close the account and "you seem to have coerced your father into buying a annuity," and that you are reporting this activity to the bank manager and some other agency might get their attention.

I took my father to a doctor for a "routine checkup," and the doctor could see what's going on. Whenever the doc asked my dad a question, my father would turn to me for help, as in, "How many sisters did I have?"

My favorite take-away from that visit was this:

Doctor: I think it would be a good idea if you got a flu shot.

My Dad: Why? I don't have the flu.

So, even if you aren't in charge of your father's affairs, being there during the dialogue and getting the doctor's attention may pay off in the future. btw, I live a few hundred miles from my father, and my sister is the "primary care-giver." But she knows nothing about his finances, and leaves that to me. Fortunately.

Good luck!
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche
User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 17338
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: 85 yr old dad making financial moves

Post by White Coat Investor »

It's funny that families can take so long to recognize dementia. I think part of it is that it comes on so gradually. But part of it is that they never ask the dumb little questions that make it obvious to doctors. You know, like

"What year is it?"
"What floor of the hospital are you on?"
"Who's the president?"

If you (and your parents) want a good gauge of when you should take over the money, why not start doing an annual MMSA? Start it at an age when they will get a perfect score. Then decide upfront at what score you get to take over the money. When they hit it, you're in charge.

http://www.dementiatoday.com/wp-content ... nation.pdf

Frankly, I'd be terrified to have someone managing money at any score below, say, 28-29 out of 30.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Topic Author
chrisjul
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:15 pm

Re: 85 yr old dad making financial moves

Post by chrisjul »

Tks for the test. I will do this.
Post Reply