Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

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BogleBabe101211
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Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by BogleBabe101211 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:48 am

I am new to Vanguard and have $15K to invest. I am nervous and came across an advertisement for Dan Wiener's Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors. The newletter seems expensive but there is no sense putting money in less favorable Vanguard mutual funds. Thoughts? Thanks.

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:23 am

Welcome! You've come to the right place. Dan Wiener's newsletter is discussed in this forum. The bottom line is that you don't need anyone's newsletter to invest. Everything you need to know can be gotten for free in our wiki: Getting Started

If you want some reading material, our recommendations are here: Books: recommendations and reviews
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by Dan999 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:05 pm

I currently get it and it is mildly useful if you want someone to give you their opinion on Vanguard funds and news about funds added and combined. I probably will not renew my subscription. He has his group of funds he recommends. He also ranks many of the funds to buy sell and hold. I do not know what his track record is. If you abide by the 3 fund portfolio, you definitely do not need it.

If you do get it, do not pay the $300 +/- for it. It can be had for $99. But as Lady Geek said it is not necessary.

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by investor » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:12 pm

I take it. $15K is not enough for his portfolios. You can enroll for $99 year and then cancel for full money back. His portfolios do not change much. His results can be viewed on the monthly Madsinger reports (the newsletter funds) here on this forum. The newsletter supports a good forum. I should add that I do not follow his portfolios.

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Last edited by investor on Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:30 pm

Here's the latest: madsinger monthly report (October 2013)

I extracted his opinion of the Three-fund portfolio (which I like): Subject: madsinger monthly report (October 2013)
madsinger wrote:... If a 3-fund portfolio matches your willingness, need and ability to take risk, then there is nothing wrong with it. There is no guarantee that any portfolio listed above will outperform any other going forward. Coffeehouse and Slice and Dice are portfolios that choose to lean towards "value" and "small" portions of the market. These areas have historically done well, but there is no guarantee that they will in the future.

Hot Hands is not really a "portfolio", but rather a single fund held for a year. It has had some very strong years (resulting in some very gawdy performance numbers), but can also lag the market by a lot in off years. I put this one there for amusement, but certainly not as a recommended portfolio plan...
They key phrase "willingness, need and ability to take risk" can't be understated.

There's nothing wrong with a Vanguard target retirement fund, either. Simple is good. Is this for a tax-deferred account (retirement)? You can always change from a target date fund to anything else without penalty later (There are no taxes on gains / losses in tax deferred accounts).
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by ResearchMed » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:48 pm

Welcome.

IF you decide to subscribe, do wait for a $99/yr offer.
[Someone might be able to provide you with a special code. But if you click for "more information", and they've got your e-address, you'll start getting "invites", and then better offers, and then "special offers", and then "special final lowest price" offers, and then lower offers, and at some point, the $99/yr offer. Don't get the 2x$99 or so, until you've tried it. And no need to give that second year's subscription price until the end of the first year. Sometimes, for subscribers, it takes letting it expire, before getting the "best and final offer". And once you're enrolled again, you can then download the missing Newletter for the missed month(s?).]

We keep deciding not to renew, and then that $99 offer eventually shows up. (We alternated having the subscription in each name, so I tend to get the low offers while DH's subscription is still running, and vice versa. We usually manage to miss no issues or just 1 during annual renewal.)

There are 4 recommended portfolios (aggressive to conservation, and an index version), and a listing of many (all?) Vanguard funds/ETF's with return history chart, and the current "buy/hold/sell".

There are also articles, with interviews with fund managers, or "about bonds", or the general economy, etc.
Some we find useful as background, others not so much.

I've kept it going mostly because there are occasional useful tidbits, about Vanguard, general investing, and even a few NON-Vanguard funds (usually mentioned only a replacements for recommended but closed Vanguard funds).

Very early on, I invested in a non-Vanguard fund he suggested, and that became one of our all time best during the period of time since.
We could pay for many lifetimes of subscriptions (at the highest price) with the proceeds of that, and it was a relatively modest amount to start with.

I am somewhat more active in mutual fund choices (rarely actual single stocks anymore), and learn more from a variety of online searches, including just screening.
This newsletter is NOT the most useful, but it has been somewhat useful, especially as background.
NOTE: This would probably be FROWNED UPON BY OTHER BOGLEHEADS, and I do *NOT* recommend it as a place to start, and definitely not with a small starting sum.

You'd probably be well advised to read the intro Bogleheads information, and browse these posts.

Especially pay attention to the behavioral/emotional side of investing, as quick reactive selling (or buying) can be really negative.
Look into the Dollar Cost Averaging (DCA) posts.
"On average", investing it all now is better than, say, 1/4 each month for 4 months, or 1/12 each month for 12 months.
But no single individual gets "average" returns.
The DCA approach with some of your investment money, along with investing a larger part now, might be best emotionally until you learn HOW you'll react if you hit a market down that could be -10%, -25%, or considerably more (rare, but happened just a few years ago).
In addition to not selling (or buying) reactively, you also need to consider the "able to sleep comfortably at night" factor. This is not trivial.

DO YOU HAVE AN EMERGENCY FUND?
You might want to post your age, income (or just marginal tax bracket)/debts/savings/other investments if any/etc., family status.
There are others here who will probably give more specific opinions.

LadyGeek has just posted some good information.

RM

[edited for typo correction]

umfundi
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by umfundi » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:42 pm

BogleBabe101211 wrote:I am new to Vanguard and have $15K to invest. I am nervous and came across an advertisement for Dan Wiener's Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors. The newletter seems expensive but there is no sense putting money in less favorable Vanguard mutual funds. Thoughts? Thanks.
This would be sufficient reason for me to stay away from him:

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 0#p1847930

With $15k, I would suggest you put it all in LifeStrategy Moderate until you better make up your mind or your balance increases.

Keith
Déjà Vu is not a prediction

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by CABob » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:37 pm

Dan Wiener is discussed often on this forum but I don’t recall a recent conversation.
For example, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 10&t=91464
A search of the forum will point out a number of conversations https://www.google.com/search?q=Dan+Wie ... eheads.org
You will find a few fans of his and probably more that are not fans. But, then you will probably find the same about anyones investing newsletter.
Bob

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by WKS360 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:42 pm

There has got to be a service out there that will "rank" Vanguard funds for a fee. Something like SigFig or even Wealthfront? We can't still live in a day and age where and investment newsletter delivers the most accurate information.

Outside of this newsletter, I've been able to pull numerous reports on asset allocations with respect to my risk tolerance, but when it come to investing in one fund family paying $99 doesn't make sense. You could even say sign up for a cheaper service like Financial Guard and since they are monthly just cancel once you have your allocations. Then just rebalance once a year unless you feel the portfolio didn't do enough to match your risk with expected return.

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by mickeyd » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:45 pm

:shock: I am still amazed that the guy is still around. He must still be making money. Good luck to him. :greedy
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by gkaplan » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:51 pm

Rico, he of the $5,000 watch fame, is a big Wiener fan. Although he posts infrequently, this thread may pique his interest.
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by pjstack » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:29 pm

gkaplan wrote:Rico, he of the $5,000 watch fame, is a big Wiener fan. Although he posts infrequently, this thread may pique his interest.
Do you mean "Petrocelli"? He was a fan (or participant) of the "Hot Hands" method as I recall.

I miss his posts for their humor, though he rankled some people from time to time. (oh, well.)
pjstack

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by BL » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:47 pm

umfundi wrote:
BogleBabe101211 wrote:I am new to Vanguard and have $15K to invest. I am nervous and came across an advertisement for Dan Wiener's Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors. The newletter seems expensive but there is no sense putting money in less favorable Vanguard mutual funds. Thoughts? Thanks.
This would be sufficient reason for me to stay away from him:

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 0#p1847930

With $15k, I would suggest you put it all in LifeStrategy Moderate until you better make up your mind or your balance increases.

Keith
+1

You can get free information here in the Wiki and much better information investing in a low-cost recommended book such as Bogleheads guide to investing. Meanwhile a Life Strategy or Target Retirement fund is a great suggestion.


There is a long thread here on the 3-fund portfolio. That is pretty much what the above is made up of with a small amount of International bonds added.

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by abuss368 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:15 pm

I have never read his newsletter. Many years ago when we were a part of the evil stock picking world, we used to buy many newsletters from the Bull Market Report service. We realized that stock picking and newsletters were a waste of time. They were good however for the retirement of the folks who wrote and published them!
John C. Bogle: "You simply do not need to put your money into 8 different mutual funds!" | | Disclosure: Three Fund Portfolio + U.S. & International REITs

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by sperry8 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:30 pm

I'm currently a newsletter subscriber. I joined it years ago - then left, then came back. You don't need to stay year in and year out - as his advice doesn't change too much from year to year. And when you rejoin you have access to all the back issues you missed. So I rejoin every other year or two (and only for $99 or less). Don't pay more.

Yes, I suppose one could learn everything they need from the forum - but Weiner helped me learn more quickly. And for a tax deductible $99, I suggest you do get it for one full year. You will learn a bunch.

I don't follow his recommendations to the letter, but he has turned me on to some amazing Vanguard funds (such as PRIMECAP & Capital Opportunity, the Vanguard Healthcare Fund and a few others). Without him, I'm not sure I would've picked those out of VG's lineup - and I'm glad I did. They represent a goodly portion of my portfolio.

Bogleheads don't like him because he likes to place you in actively managed Vanguard funds and they only believe in index funds. However, Weiner also has a fund that is 100% indexed should that be your thing.

Get it and learn from all corners. Don't just read this board and listen to it or get the newsletter and listen to it either. Better to learn and read a lot and then use your brain to come up with the best plan of action for you.
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by umfundi » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:46 pm

sperry8 wrote:I'm currently a newsletter subscriber. I joined it years ago - then left, then came back. You don't need to stay year in and year out - as his advice doesn't change too much from year to year. And when you rejoin you have access to all the back issues you missed. So I rejoin every other year or two (and only for $99 or less). Don't pay more.

Yes, I suppose one could learn everything they need from the forum - but Weiner helped me learn more quickly. And for a tax deductible $99, I suggest you do get it for one full year. You will learn a bunch.

I don't follow his recommendations to the letter, but he has turned me on to some amazing Vanguard funds (such as PRIMECAP & Capital Opportunity, the Vanguard Healthcare Fund and a few others). Without him, I'm not sure I would've picked those out of VG's lineup - and I'm glad I did. They represent a goodly portion of my portfolio.

Bogleheads don't like him because he likes to place you in actively managed Vanguard funds and they only believe in index funds. However, Weiner also has a fund that is 100% indexed should that be your thing.

Get it and learn from all corners. Don't just read this board and listen to it or get the newsletter and listen to it either. Better to learn and read a lot and then use your brain to come up with the best plan of action for you.
> And for a tax deductible $99

Please explain how your newsletter subscription is tax deductible.

Thank you,

Keith
Déjà Vu is not a prediction

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by Toons » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:29 am

Save your money , you could do fine with three funds for diversification, Vanguard Total Stock Market, Total International,and Total Bond(Intermediate Tax Exempt if it is a taxable account). Nothing to worry about. Investing is not complicated and it is fun :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by robertalpert » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:51 am

Reading any of the books on Lady Greeks booklist is a good place to start.

I think with $15K, the three or four fund portfolio is not very practical because you would end up with roughly equal weights for each fund, leaving not much flexibility to choose allocations that make sense. Using ETFs could bring more flexibility, but there would be added costs {account fees; bid-ask spreads; not to mention the added complexity of rebalancing}.

If in an IRA, be best to look at one of the Vanguard life strategy funds --- or --- a Vanguard target-date-fund. Either could be suitable depending on your inclinations.

Life strategy funds have the benefit of keeping static allocations that are self-rebalancing. You always know what you've got. You can set it and forget it year to year and re-consider your allocation needs (and choosing an alternative life strategy fund) as time goes by.

Target date funds have the benefit of self-adjusting allocation over time (age) and may be good for someone who wants to set it and forget it for decades.

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by sperry8 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:14 am

umfundi wrote:
sperry8 wrote:I'm currently a newsletter subscriber. I joined it years ago - then left, then came back. You don't need to stay year in and year out - as his advice doesn't change too much from year to year. And when you rejoin you have access to all the back issues you missed. So I rejoin every other year or two (and only for $99 or less). Don't pay more.

Yes, I suppose one could learn everything they need from the forum - but Weiner helped me learn more quickly. And for a tax deductible $99, I suggest you do get it for one full year. You will learn a bunch.

I don't follow his recommendations to the letter, but he has turned me on to some amazing Vanguard funds (such as PRIMECAP & Capital Opportunity, the Vanguard Healthcare Fund and a few others). Without him, I'm not sure I would've picked those out of VG's lineup - and I'm glad I did. They represent a goodly portion of my portfolio.

Bogleheads don't like him because he likes to place you in actively managed Vanguard funds and they only believe in index funds. However, Weiner also has a fund that is 100% indexed should that be your thing.

Get it and learn from all corners. Don't just read this board and listen to it or get the newsletter and listen to it either. Better to learn and read a lot and then use your brain to come up with the best plan of action for you.
> And for a tax deductible $99

Please explain how your newsletter subscription is tax deductible.

Thank you,

Keith
Investment newsletters are tax deductible. Google it:
http://www.ehow.com/info_7877816_invest ... tible.html
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/i ... 23692.html
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by livesoft » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:32 am

Many folks would have to subscribe to hundreds or even thousands of newsletters to get over the 2% floor on miscellaneous itemized deductions on Form 1040 Schedule A. And they would have to itemize as well instead of taking the standard deduction.
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by SpringMan » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:46 am

sperry8 wrote:
umfundi wrote:
sperry8 wrote:I'm currently a newsletter subscriber. I joined it years ago - then left, then came back. You don't need to stay year in and year out - as his advice doesn't change too much from year to year. And when you rejoin you have access to all the back issues you missed. So I rejoin every other year or two (and only for $99 or less). Don't pay more.

Yes, I suppose one could learn everything they need from the forum - but Weiner helped me learn more quickly. And for a tax deductible $99, I suggest you do get it for one full year. You will learn a bunch.

I don't follow his recommendations to the letter, but he has turned me on to some amazing Vanguard funds (such as PRIMECAP & Capital Opportunity, the Vanguard Healthcare Fund and a few others). Without him, I'm not sure I would've picked those out of VG's lineup - and I'm glad I did. They represent a goodly portion of my portfolio.

Bogleheads don't like him because he likes to place you in actively managed Vanguard funds and they only believe in index funds. However, Weiner also has a fund that is 100% indexed should that be your thing.

Get it and learn from all corners. Don't just read this board and listen to it or get the newsletter and listen to it either. Better to learn and read a lot and then use your brain to come up with the best plan of action for you.
> And for a tax deductible $99

Please explain how your newsletter subscription is tax deductible.

Thank you,

Keith
Investment newsletters are tax deductible. Google it:
http://www.ehow.com/info_7877816_invest ... tible.html
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/i ... 23692.html
Yes but the deduction is only available to those that itemize and exceed the 2% floor for Misc. Most tax payers are left out by these requirements.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by umfundi » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:27 am

SpringMan wrote:Yes but the deduction is only available to those that itemize and exceed the 2% floor for Misc. Most tax payers are left out by these requirements.
Yes, I suspected that was the answer when I asked the question.

But, I note that investment advisor fees are also deductible (under the same rules). Not that it applies to me, but even a small AUM percentage can easily be more than 2% of your AGI.

Keith
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by SpringMan » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:47 am

umfundi wrote:
SpringMan wrote:Yes but the deduction is only available to those that itemize and exceed the 2% floor for Misc. Most tax payers are left out by these requirements.
Yes, I suspected that was the answer when I asked the question.

But, I note that investment advisor fees are also deductible (under the same rules). Not that it applies to me, but even a small AUM percentage can easily be more than 2% of your AGI.

Keith
That begs the question, why purchase an investment news letters for advice when you already pay an investment advisor for advice? I suppose reading newsletters could be a hobby for some.
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by BogleBabe101211 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:37 pm

Thank you for your feedback. After reading some of the posts I feel a bit sheepish that I only have 15K to invest. I look forward to learning more from all of you. :happy

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by pjstack » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:46 pm

BogleBabe101211 wrote:Thank you for your feedback. After reading some of the posts I feel a bit sheepish that I only have 15K to invest. I look forward to learning more from all of you. :happy
Don't feel sheepish. 15K isn't chicken feed. More power to you!
pjstack

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by CABob » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:50 pm

BogleBabe101211 wrote:Thank you for your feedback. After reading some of the posts I feel a bit sheepish that I only have 15K to invest. I look forward to learning more from all of you. :happy
No reason to feel sheepish. We all started someplace with some amount of money and most of without a :moneybag inheritance or trust account. :shock:
And I trust that most of us started out making a lot of foolish mistakes because we were not aware of much of the research, knowledge, and experience discussed on this forum.
Bob

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by jmndu99 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:14 pm

CABob wrote:
BogleBabe101211 wrote:Thank you for your feedback. After reading some of the posts I feel a bit sheepish that I only have 15K to invest. I look forward to learning more from all of you. :happy
No reason to feel sheepish. We all started someplace with some amount of money and most of without a :moneybag inheritance or trust account. :shock:
And I trust that most of us started out making a lot of foolish mistakes because we were not aware of much of the research, knowledge, and experience discussed on this forum.
+1 DO NOT FEEL SHEEPISH

As advised, get into the One of the Vanguard Lifestyle Funds as soon as you can, add to it every month or pay period.

FWIW, I am in the Vanguard LifeStrategy Growth Fund, with less than 15k. I have been mostly a lurker on this board for 2 years. I made my mistakes before coming here.

You are in the right place (here).

BTW, I did not start out with any knowledge, no inheritance and no trust. I started with a clean slate to work with, in other words, I was very much a novice.

Good Luck,
James

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by FinancialDave » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:14 pm

I did subscribe to the newsletter last year and my biggest surprise was the 2013 Independent Guide to the Vanguard Funds, which covers 170 Funds & ETF's with historical results over the past 10 years. This is a wealth of information in one concise book that I constantly refer to for "quick" statistics and some details that are not readily available at Vanguard.

I also quickly figured out that I could get older issues of this guide on Amazon, or eBay, for in some cases as little as $10, so now I have the Funds covered easily going back to 1991.

The newsletter I probably would not renew, but I do like the way the performance review lists funds by category, and gives a Buy, Sell, or Hold rating, though I reserve the right to disagree with the ratings, it's nice to have another opinion, not related to Vanguard.

fd
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by Toons » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:33 pm

BogleBabe101211 wrote:Thank you for your feedback. After reading some of the posts I feel a bit sheepish that I only have 15K to invest. I look forward to learning more from all of you. :happy
My goodness,15k and feeling sheepish,,,millions upon millions of people would like to have 15k saved to invest :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by sperry8 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:43 pm

FinancialDave wrote:I did subscribe to the newsletter last year and my biggest surprise was the 2013 Independent Guide to the Vanguard Funds, which covers 170 Funds & ETF's with historical results over the past 10 years. This is a wealth of information in one concise book that I constantly refer to for "quick" statistics and some details that are not readily available at Vanguard.

I also quickly figured out that I could get older issues of this guide on Amazon, or eBay, for in some cases as little as $10, so now I have the Funds covered easily going back to 1991.

The newsletter I probably would not renew, but I do like the way the performance review lists funds by category, and gives a Buy, Sell, or Hold rating, though I reserve the right to disagree with the ratings, it's nice to have another opinion, not related to Vanguard.

fd
You don't have to go to eBay anymore - he now posts every single issue now all the way back to the beginning for subscribers.
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by FinancialDave » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:36 pm

sperry8 wrote:
You don't have to go to eBay anymore - he now posts every single issue now all the way back to the beginning for subscribers.
I have downloaded all past issues of the newsletter, but I have not found anywhere on-line for past issues of the FFSA Guide to Vanguard Funds, other than the current 2013 issue??
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by umfundi » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:40 pm

FinancialDave wrote:
sperry8 wrote:
You don't have to go to eBay anymore - he now posts every single issue now all the way back to the beginning for subscribers.
I have downloaded all past issues of the newsletter, but I have not found anywhere on-line for past issues of the FFSA Guide to Vanguard Funds, other than the current 2013 issue??
I found a few back issues at www.addall.com/used, but they seem expensive to me.

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by sperry8 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:34 pm

FinancialDave wrote:
sperry8 wrote:
You don't have to go to eBay anymore - he now posts every single issue now all the way back to the beginning for subscribers.
I have downloaded all past issues of the newsletter, but I have not found anywhere on-line for past issues of the FFSA Guide to Vanguard Funds, other than the current 2013 issue??
Sorry, I thought you meant newsletters. I searched google but didn't find anything I did come across this paper on VG managed funds vs indexed funds though. Never saw it before:
http://public.econ.duke.edu/Papers//PDF ... ersion.pdf

Goes straight to Weiners argument that some of the managed funds are pretty good. Of course, he doesn't find or pick them all. But he does get some. Wish they'd update their findings to date - would be interesting to see.
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:49 pm

sperry8 wrote:Sorry, I thought you meant newsletters. I searched google but didn't find anything I did come across this paper on VG managed funds vs indexed funds though. Never saw it before:
http://public.econ.duke.edu/Papers//PDF ... ersion.pdf

Goes straight to Weiners argument that some of the managed funds are pretty good. Of course, he doesn't find or pick them all. But he does get some. Wish they'd update their findings to date - would be interesting to see.
That paper is by forum member Ed Tower (tower). Here's his website: Edward Tower. You can try emailing him.

We seem to have strayed from the OP's request for help. Back on-topic, has the OP gotten an answer on what to do with the $15k? Do you need help selecting funds?
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by umfundi » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:23 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
sperry8 wrote:Sorry, I thought you meant newsletters. I searched google but didn't find anything I did come across this paper on VG managed funds vs indexed funds though. Never saw it before:
http://public.econ.duke.edu/Papers//PDF ... ersion.pdf

Goes straight to Weiners argument that some of the managed funds are pretty good. Of course, he doesn't find or pick them all. But he does get some. Wish they'd update their findings to date - would be interesting to see.
That paper is by forum member Ed Tower (tower). Here's his website: Edward Tower. You can try emailing him.

We seem to have strayed from the OP's request for help. Back on-topic, has the OP gotten an answer on what to do with the $15k? Do you need help selecting funds?
I think this answers the OP's question:

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 2#p1850872

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by Orpheus » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:53 pm

The Dan Wiener Independent Adviser is a complete waste of money. You can get all the info you need from Vanguard directly or from Morningstar.
Also make sure you are not signed up for auto-renewal since this service does not give refunds after you discover you've been charged.

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by FinancialDave » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:14 am

Orpheus wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:53 pm
The Dan Wiener Independent Adviser is a complete waste of money. You can get all the info you need from Vanguard directly or from Morningstar.
Also make sure you are not signed up for auto-renewal since this service does not give refunds after you discover you've been charged.
I'm not sure it is a waste of money, nor can all the information obtained in the "Independent Guide to Vanguard Funds" be obtained from Vanguard or Morninstar. In fact I am not aware of anyone else showing the cumulative losses in graph form (or any form for that matter) over the past decade of the Vanguard funds.

If your time is worth nothing and you have lots of it, then certainly most facts can be gotten from the web somewhere. I personally like to be able to open up in 15 seconds to any Vanguard Fund or ETF and look at many of the key details and stats for the last 10 years all on one page. As a matter of fact I have picked up some used copies of the Guide such that I have 7 copies (1995, 1998, 2001, 2007, 2013, 2014, 2016 spanning all years from 1985 to 2016.

As others have mentioned and I can confirm, you can get your money back and certainly if you did not want the renewal.



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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by JBTX » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:27 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:30 pm
Here's the latest: madsinger monthly report (October 2013)

I extracted his opinion of the Three-fund portfolio (which I like): Subject: madsinger monthly report (October 2013)
madsinger wrote:... If a 3-fund portfolio matches your willingness, need and ability to take risk, then there is nothing wrong with it. There is no guarantee that any portfolio listed above will outperform any other going forward. Coffeehouse and Slice and Dice are portfolios that choose to lean towards "value" and "small" portions of the market. These areas have historically done well, but there is no guarantee that they will in the future.

Hot Hands is not really a "portfolio", but rather a single fund held for a year. It has had some very strong years (resulting in some very gawdy performance numbers), but can also lag the market by a lot in off years. I put this one there for amusement, but certainly not as a recommended portfolio plan...
They key phrase "willingness, need and ability to take risk" can't be understated.

There's nothing wrong with a Vanguard target retirement fund, either. Simple is good. Is this for a tax-deferred account (retirement)? You can always change from a target date fund to anything else without penalty later (There are no taxes on gains / losses in tax deferred accounts).
Just curious, what are the benefits of a 3 fund portfolio vs a low fee target date allocation fund? The only benefit I can see is you can adjust your allocation between the 3 funds vs the prescribed allocation of the retirement date fund. The downside of a 3 fund would be the need for periodic rebalancing. Anything else I am missing?

Thanks.

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by hushpuppy » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:50 pm

delete
Last edited by hushpuppy on Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:19 pm

JBTX wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:27 pm
LadyGeek wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:30 pm
Here's the latest: madsinger monthly report (October 2013)

I extracted his opinion of the Three-fund portfolio (which I like): Subject: madsinger monthly report (October 2013)
madsinger wrote:... If a 3-fund portfolio matches your willingness, need and ability to take risk, then there is nothing wrong with it. There is no guarantee that any portfolio listed above will outperform any other going forward. Coffeehouse and Slice and Dice are portfolios that choose to lean towards "value" and "small" portions of the market. These areas have historically done well, but there is no guarantee that they will in the future.

Hot Hands is not really a "portfolio", but rather a single fund held for a year. It has had some very strong years (resulting in some very gawdy performance numbers), but can also lag the market by a lot in off years. I put this one there for amusement, but certainly not as a recommended portfolio plan...
They key phrase "willingness, need and ability to take risk" can't be understated.

There's nothing wrong with a Vanguard target retirement fund, either. Simple is good. Is this for a tax-deferred account (retirement)? You can always change from a target date fund to anything else without penalty later (There are no taxes on gains / losses in tax deferred accounts).
Just curious, what are the benefits of a 3 fund portfolio vs a low fee target date allocation fund? The only benefit I can see is you can adjust your allocation between the 3 funds vs the prescribed allocation of the retirement date fund. The downside of a 3 fund would be the need for periodic rebalancing. Anything else I am missing?

Thanks.
Since target date funds are a "fund of funds", they will always have a higher expense ratio than creating one yourself.

If you want to manage the funds yourself, meaning to rebalance once a year or change your asset allocation, then go for a 3-fund portfolio.

There's also an emotional component. When the stock market tanks, a target date fund will only show you the overall result - which is the combined stock + international stock + bond return. With a 3-fund portfolio, you'll see the stock fund drop like a rock.

While there's no difference in the portfolio's total return, the impact of seeing the single fund drop will cause your emotions to go through an emotional nightmare. If you don't have the emotional fortitude to stick with your plan, a target date fund will help you get through the down market and stay the course.

The added expenses of a target date fund (vs. 3 separate funds) will more than pay for itself if you don't understand how to (or don't want to) manage individual funds. That's why they're called "set and forget" funds. Just pick the one you want and you are done.
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by Dale_G » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:08 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:19 pm
Since target date funds are a "fund of funds", they will always have a higher expense ratio than creating one yourself.
There is no added expense for Vanguard Target Date funds beyond that due to the underlying funds. The TD funds do use the slightly higher cost Investor class of funds rather than Admiral class.

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by JBTX » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:17 pm

I think the life strategy funds use the underlying expense ratios of the funds. Maybe not admiral ER.

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:27 pm

Dale_G wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:08 pm
LadyGeek wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:19 pm
Since target date funds are a "fund of funds", they will always have a higher expense ratio than creating one yourself.
There is no added expense for Vanguard Target Date funds beyond that due to the underlying funds. The TD funds do use the slightly higher cost Investor class of funds rather than Admiral class.

Dale
I think you're right, thanks. Vanguard's use of the more costly Investor class shares instead of Admiral shares is a common complaint.

I took a quick look at the Fidelity Freedom ® 2035 Fund which shows an expense ratio of 0.75%. I didn't check all of the underlying funds, but many have expense ratios much less than that.
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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by celia » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:45 pm

Orpheus wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:53 pm
The Dan Wiener Independent Adviser is a complete waste of money. You can get all the info you need from Vanguard directly or from Morningstar.
Where can you get Dan's commentary about the economy? His interviews with fund managers? His statistics showing different kinds of comparisons?

For example, in the June 2017 issue, his commentary starts with referencing the song "When I'm Sixty-Four" and how, when it was written, that seemed so far away to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band fans. Then he talks about the increasing life expectancy and the Health Care Fund compared to the 500 Index Fund. That issue also has an interview with Donald Kilbride, who manages the Dividend Growth Fund. I, for one, am entertained and always learn something new from the newsletter.
Also make sure you are not signed up for auto-renewal since this service does not give refunds after you discover you've been charged.
Ahhh, it looks like you used to be a subscriber. :oops:

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by tommcb99 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:21 pm

I know there is much positive info about his newsletter, but I seriously question his corporate ethics. Here's why:

I don't subscribe to his newsletter, but responded to an ad he placed in Kiplingers magazine. The ad promised to "reveal" four of the Vanguard funds in exchange for your email address. So I fell for it. What I got was a page that gave four funds alright, but two of them were CLOSED to investors! Worse yet, he tried to leverage this by saying he's reveal the alternatives to the closed fund if you subscribed to his service.

Classic bait-and-switch and the exact reason why I will never subscribe any of his services.

Tom

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Re: Dan Wiener Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors

Post by ruralavalon » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:04 pm

BogleBabe101211 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:48 am
I am new to Vanguard and have $15K to invest. I am nervous and came across an advertisement for Dan Wiener's Independent Advisor for Vanguard Investors. The newletter seems expensive but there is no sense putting money in less favorable Vanguard mutual funds. Thoughts? Thanks.
Save your money.

Read the links that LadyGeek gave you, and one or two of the looks on general investing.
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