is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

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3rdcoaster
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is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by 3rdcoaster » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:04 am

Thanks to all for the great posts and discussion. I am mostly a reader here but have a question which I couldn't easily search the site for (though I doubt it is new).

Now that I have invested with Vanguard for over 10 years, I've become concerned about the limited timeframe of the online data. This becomes increasingly problematic with time, raising a few questions:

1. How do others deal with the 5 year limit on display of much info on the vanguard site (e.g. balances and personal return)?
2. Isn't it in direct conflict w the credo to allow display of a month's returns but no greater than 5 years?
3. I understand that some here have an econ bent and training, but for those (the large majority, if non-diehards are considered) who don't, isn't displaying all the data the right thing to do, now?
4. I called support and was told the reason is "maintaining low cost", but that doesn't seem to valid today. Data costs have shrunk. How many others feel this way? Have any earlier diehard efforts been mounted to change this?

Cheers,
Ed
Last edited by 3rdcoaster on Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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momar
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by momar » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:05 am

It's obnoxious. There is no justifiable reason for this.
"Index funds have a place in your portfolio, but you'll never beat the index with them." - Words of wisdom from a Fidelity rep

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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:03 am

I'm keeping my own spreadsheets so I don't need it, but it would be nice.

Sidney
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by Sidney » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:20 am

The only info I care about is tax basis and making sure that the share counts are accurate. I have confirmations and statements for that. I keep the basis records on Quicken.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.

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frugaltype
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by frugaltype » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:36 am

Some of my financial institutions keep only 18 months. Must date back to expensive hardware.

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tfb
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by tfb » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:45 am

What cliff? Just the personal rate of return calculation? Useless. Historical returns only tell you the past. It is what it is. What do you do about it? All fund returns are reported back to inception. Statements are available for much longer than five years. They send you an annual report every year. Just save those.
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

PB
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by PB » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:33 pm

Is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

No.

Vanguard is an outstanding company in many ways, but their online system falls short, and this issue is just one of its many shortcomings. I've written on the subject before, and will just have to smile at how many people will defend them on this issue.

Sidney
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by Sidney » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:46 pm

PB wrote:Is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

No.

Vanguard is an outstanding company in many ways, but their online system falls short, and this issue is just one of its many shortcomings. I've written on the subject before, and will just have to smile at how many people will defend them on this issue.
It could be that fewer actually defend it as don't care, either because they don't look at lots of historical data or they maintain what they want offline or via other means. I don't recall seeing posts actually stating that VG online systems are great (though they may exist) -- but for most, maybe the system meets their needs.

There has been a lot of discussion about online security but frankly, I don't feel qualified to have an opinion on that.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.

PB
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by PB » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:54 pm

~~ :wink: ~~

RobInCT
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by RobInCT » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:19 pm

frugaltype wrote:Some of my financial institutions keep only 18 months. Must date back to expensive hardware.
I doubt it. I've had a Vanguard account for 15 years now. The data cliff is new. The 5-year cutoff mysteriously appeared without warning a few months after the bottom fell out of the market in 2008. I assumed at the time it was to hide from me and people like me the fact that our steady, responsible investing for the last 10+ years had a total net negative return.

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momar
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by momar » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:21 pm

See this related thread for how a company should handle its customer's financial records: http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... st=1679941
"Index funds have a place in your portfolio, but you'll never beat the index with them." - Words of wisdom from a Fidelity rep

PB
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by PB » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:48 pm

Interesting link, Momar, because for Employer-based plans, Vanguard doesn't even keep 5 years online -- they only keep two.

See screenshot below... the moment I enter 4/25/11 (as opposed to 4/26/11), it states in red:

"You may view only up to 24 months online..."

http://dezigns.com/VGHistory.png

For all you VG defenders out there, is this justifiable?

gkaplan
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by gkaplan » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:16 pm

I don''t care. What can I do with this information?
Gordon

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G-Money
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by G-Money » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:27 pm

gkaplan wrote:I don''t care. What can I do with this information?
My thoughts exactly.
Don't assume I know what I'm talking about.

PB
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by PB » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:43 pm

~~ :wink: ~~

Sam I Am
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by Sam I Am » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:46 pm

Message deleted.
Last edited by Sam I Am on Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Ed 2
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by Ed 2 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:07 pm

gkaplan wrote:I don''t care. What can I do with this information?
Pat yourself on the back. :happy
"The fund industry doesn't have a lot of heroes, but he (Bogle) is one of them," Russ Kinnel

PB
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by PB » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:12 pm

Sam I Am,

You're perspective is legitimate, of course. The problem is that the website is symptomatic of a larger arrogance that I see too often with Vanguard -- that any problem or shortcoming is written off as "service to low fees."

That's a risky proposition, no matter how big Vanguard has become... just ask MCI, Pam AM, Woolworth and Kodak.

Sam I Am
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by Sam I Am » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:52 pm

Message deleted.
Last edited by Sam I Am on Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PB
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by PB » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:55 pm

Agreed... time will tell.

Thanks.

3rdcoaster
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Re: is vanguard's 5yr web data cliff justifiable?

Post by 3rdcoaster » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:39 pm

Thank your all for your thoughts. I understood and anticipated that some would keep their own spreadsheets,etc. I didn't anticipate gkaplan's perspective,seconded by others, that past data don't matter. Nonetheless, I would think that the cost increment of showing a longer time frame is very small--no increment in computational power or security, and very minimal increment in data storage (they save all the records, as suggested by momar's link). Is this incorrect?

Those who aren't interested wouldn't be compelled to look. Best wishes.

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