Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

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ClosetIndexer
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Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by ClosetIndexer »

A number of Vanguard funds and ETFs should be paying quarterly dividends imminently, but for the life of me I can not find and information online. Specifically, I need the ex-div dates for VBR and VTV. Best I've found are these estimates. Can't find anything on the Vanguard site anywhere. Why do you do this to us, Vanguard? I have no desire to buy a bunch of unnecessary taxes.

So, does anyone know where ex-dividend dates for imminent dividends can be found? If I call Vanguard, will they tell me? (Are there any tricks to getting them to do so?)

Thanks!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by BrandonBogle »

BrandonBogle wrote: Recently Vanguard posted a news article about certain classes of a few funds making supplemental distributions. In that document, it made reference that these supplemental distributions would be in addition to the March 20 and March 26 distributions. The guess is that indirectly will be the ex dividend dates. Don't know which fund goes to what date to (and even if different classes of a fund fall on different dates).

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... ons-032013

MFs Distribution page
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/ ... TB=overTBI

ETFs Distribution page
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/ ... TB=overTBI
Left my original post as a quote. Vanguard just release a "news article" about this here:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... nds-032013
Last edited by BrandonBogle on Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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LH
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by LH »

ClosetIndexer wrote:A number of Vanguard funds and ETFs should be paying quarterly dividends imminently, but for the life of me I can not find and information online. Specifically, I need the ex-div dates for VBR and VTV. Best I've found are these estimates. Can't find anything on the Vanguard site anywhere. Why do you do this to us, Vanguard? I have no desire to buy a bunch of unnecessary taxes.

So, does anyone know where ex-dividend dates for imminent dividends can be found? If I call Vanguard, will they tell me? (Are there any tricks to getting them to do so?)

Thanks!

So....

Does this buying of unneccessary taxes only happen in taxable accounts right? in an IRA, this issue is moot correct?

Now, you are basically saying you want to wait until just after the dividend, to buy (or maybe the ex-dividend date I guess, so you wont get the dividend and pay tax on it).....

Never really thought of that before. feels marginal, so like what 2 percent dividend divided by 4, 0.5, then 0.2 of that say for 20 percent tax, .02 savings.

about 2 basis points saved? call it 2-4 basis points saved.

Interesting.
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by Levett »

"If I call Vanguard, will they tell me?"

Most likely, VG will tell you "all in good time."

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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by pshonore »

vbr went ex-div yesterday (3-20); nothing yet announced on VTV
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by ClosetIndexer »

pshonore wrote:vbr went ex-div yesterday (3-20); nothing yet announced on VTV
Thanks. Where were/will they be announced?
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by ClosetIndexer »

LH wrote:
ClosetIndexer wrote:A number of Vanguard funds and ETFs should be paying quarterly dividends imminently, but for the life of me I can not find and information online. Specifically, I need the ex-div dates for VBR and VTV. Best I've found are these estimates. Can't find anything on the Vanguard site anywhere. Why do you do this to us, Vanguard? I have no desire to buy a bunch of unnecessary taxes.

So, does anyone know where ex-dividend dates for imminent dividends can be found? If I call Vanguard, will they tell me? (Are there any tricks to getting them to do so?)

Thanks!

So....

Does this buying of unneccessary taxes only happen in taxable accounts right? in an IRA, this issue is moot correct?

Now, you are basically saying you want to wait until just after the dividend, to buy (or maybe the ex-dividend date I guess, so you wont get the dividend and pay tax on it).....

Never really thought of that before. feels marginal, so like what 2 percent dividend divided by 4, 0.5, then 0.2 of that say for 20 percent tax, .02 savings.

about 2 basis points saved? call it 2-4 basis points saved.

Interesting.
I'm in Canada, so dividends on these are taxed as foreign income. Savings is about 40% of 2%/4, or 20bp. Marginal yes, but why not?
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by BrandonBogle »

ClosetIndexer wrote:
pshonore wrote:vbr went ex-div yesterday (3-20); nothing yet announced on VTV
Thanks. Where were/will they be announced?
On the two links I posted above. One link for MFs and one for ETFs. Basically, on the list of "all MFs" and "all ETFs" on the Distributions tab.
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by ClosetIndexer »

BrandonBogle wrote:
ClosetIndexer wrote:
pshonore wrote:vbr went ex-div yesterday (3-20); nothing yet announced on VTV
Thanks. Where were/will they be announced?
On the two links I posted above. One link for MFs and one for ETFs. Basically, on the list of "all MFs" and "all ETFs" on the Distributions tab.
Ahhh right. Thanks.
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by House Blend »

ClosetIndexer wrote:
LH wrote:
ClosetIndexer wrote:A number of Vanguard funds and ETFs should be paying quarterly dividends imminently, but for the life of me I can not find and information online. Specifically, I need the ex-div dates for VBR and VTV. Best I've found are these estimates. Can't find anything on the Vanguard site anywhere. Why do you do this to us, Vanguard? I have no desire to buy a bunch of unnecessary taxes.

So, does anyone know where ex-dividend dates for imminent dividends can be found? If I call Vanguard, will they tell me? (Are there any tricks to getting them to do so?)
So....

Does this buying of unneccessary taxes only happen in taxable accounts right? in an IRA, this issue is moot correct?

Now, you are basically saying you want to wait until just after the dividend, to buy (or maybe the ex-dividend date I guess, so you wont get the dividend and pay tax on it).....

Never really thought of that before. feels marginal, so like what 2 percent dividend divided by 4, 0.5, then 0.2 of that say for 20 percent tax, .02 savings.

about 2 basis points saved? call it 2-4 basis points saved.

Interesting.
I'm in Canada, so dividends on these are taxed as foreign income. Savings is about 40% of 2%/4, or 20bp. Marginal yes, but why not?
I agree that your next VTV dividend is something any tax-paying shareholder ought to care about, but perhaps you don't realize that VBR pays dividends on an annual schedule.

The recent VBR dividend that just happened is an out-of-schedule micro-dividend to account for late-arriving dividends last year.

For the mutual fund version of VBR the dividend was declared on 3/18. It was about 2.5 basis points, so a 1 bp tax bill for you.
See:https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/ ... =INT#tab=4
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by BrandonBogle »

Vanguard just released their "news article" about this.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... nds-032013
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by ClosetIndexer »

House Blend wrote:I agree that your next VTV dividend is something any tax-paying shareholder ought to care about, but perhaps you don't realize that VBR pays dividends on an annual schedule.
Ah, thank you for that clarification. For some reason I was thinking VBR was one of the funds that had changed its distribution schedule from annual to quarterly last year.
BrandonBogle wrote:Vanguard just released their "news article" about this.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... nds-032013
Hrm... that link is redirecting here: https://personal.vanguard.com/us/freshn ... erview.jsf. I can't find the March dividends page through their site search or Google. (Google has the link, but it also goes to that overview page, as does the cached version.) A little bit more transparency by VG would sure be nice. :annoyed
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by BrandonBogle »

Yeah, they took it down for some reason. That said, the dates are March 22nd and March 28th. Can't remember if that was pay date or ex dividend date though. They had listed each fund and it's share classes on that page. It looked like most/all passive funds/ETFs were the earlier date, and active fund/ETFs the later date.

Guess they took it down for updates?
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by BrandonBogle »

This is the Google Cache version of te document. Looks like the declaration date, which would be the ex dividend date, right?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... QUjKl92u6w
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by ClosetIndexer »

BrandonBogle wrote:Looks like the declaration date, which would be the ex dividend date, right?
I don't believe so, no. The declaration date is the date on which the company says, "We're going to pay this dividend." The ex-dividend date should be after the declaration date. (The record date is then two days after the ex-dividend date; that way if you buy the day before the ex-div date, your trade has had time to settle prior to the record date, so you are now a shareholder on record.)

Presumably a company could declare a dividend on the same date that it is paid; I know private companies can and sometimes do this. For a public fund or company though, I can't imagine this happening, if it's even allowed (which I doubt).

So presumably if Mar. 22 is the declaration date, that's the date when they'll finally tell us the ex-div date. :)
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by Hexdump »

Hmmm, I don't see any bond funds there, specifically VBMFX.

Also, is it accurate to say that the funds like VSCGX, Life Style Conservative Growth, which is made up of 28+-% of VTSMX (div=0.166), Total Stock Market Index, would post a dividend of 28+-%, of VTSMX (0.166 x 28% = 0.04648) ?

Phew, that's a lot of verbiage to say that the dividends might be predictable if you know the dividends of the components.
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by House Blend »

Hexdump wrote:Hmmm, I don't see any bond funds there, specifically VBMFX.

Also, is it accurate to say that the funds like VSCGX, Life Style Conservative Growth, which is made up of 28+-% of VTSMX (div=0.166), Total Stock Market Index, would post a dividend of 28+-%, of VTSMX (0.166 x 28% = 0.04648) ?

Phew, that's a lot of verbiage to say that the dividends might be predictable if you know the dividends of the components.
That should give you a reasonable estimate. Plus there's the dividend from Total International--it was posted overnight for all mutual fund share classes so you can look it up now. Plus there is an upcoming short term and long term cap gain distribution for Total Bond that should be in the mix.
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by seafood10 »

how do you read the dividend? for example let say you have $100k in vtip etf and on the chart it said it is pays quarterly for $0.05200. so how much does it pay in dividends if you have $100k in vtip? thx in advance.
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by BrandonBogle »

Quarterly Divend * # of shares = Dividend Payout you'll receive in a couple days
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by BrandonBogle »

ClosetIndexer wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote:Looks like the declaration date, which would be the ex dividend date, right?
I don't believe so, no. The declaration date is the date on which the company says, "We're going to pay this dividend." The ex-dividend date should be after the declaration date. (The record date is then two days after the ex-dividend date; that way if you buy the day before the ex-div date, your trade has had time to settle prior to the record date, so you are now a shareholder on record.)

Presumably a company could declare a dividend on the same date that it is paid; I know private companies can and sometimes do this. For a public fund or company though, I can't imagine this happening, if it's even allowed (which I doubt).

So presumably if Mar. 22 is the declaration date, that's the date when they'll finally tell us the ex-div date. :)
If you go back to my first post, I quoted the original text when I edited it. Their original document of March 20 and 26th seems to apply. For instance, if you go to the below site for VTI, you will see Ex-Divdend date of 3/22, record date of 3/26, and payable date of 3/28. 3/22 Matches the Google Cache entry and March 26th matches the reference article. Assuming this is correct for other funds (now that's a BIG assumption), then we can look at the 3/22 and 3/28 as the ex-dividend dates depending on the fund.
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/ ... =INT#tab=4

Thankfully, it looks like most/all of the MFs and ETFs have had their pages updated. So it should be trivial at this point to pull up the proper fund and look at the distributions tab.

I will say that Vanguard didn't make this process easy, but at least I can understand why.
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by seafood10 »

how long do you need to hold a vanguard mutual or etf in order to receive dividend?
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by BrandonBogle »

seafood10 wrote:how long do you need to hold a vanguard mutual or etf in order to receive dividend?
You need to hold it (settled trade) at the close of the market on the "record date". Basically, buy it BEFORE market opens on ex-dividend date. Or if trying to avoid the dividend (to avoid the tax), buy after the market opens on the ex-dividend date.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/02/110802.asp
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by Levett »

The declaration dates are now posted.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... nds-032013

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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by ClosetIndexer »

BrandonBogle wrote:
seafood10 wrote:how long do you need to hold a vanguard mutual or etf in order to receive dividend?
You need to hold it (settled trade) at the close of the market on the "record date". Basically, buy it BEFORE market opens on ex-dividend date. Or if trying to avoid the dividend (to avoid the tax), buy after the market opens on the ex-dividend date.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/02/110802.asp
As far as how long you need to hold it, just overnight. But there's no point in doing so, since the NAV of the ETF will drop by the amount of the dividend, so in a tax-sheltered account, it's basically the same as holding overnight on any other day. (And in a taxable account, you're just paying taxes for nothing.)
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by Hexdump »

Are dividends pro-rated ?
A google search says that it is a rare event, but I seem to remember getting partial dividends.
Hmmm, it might have been when moving some funds from Fidelity to Vanguard, but I am not sure.

I always thought they were, even though you sell the fund before the record date.
And do mutual funds work differently than individual stocks ?
EG, I sell a fund or equity 1 day before the record date, and will I get some percent of the full dividend ?

thanks
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by BrandonBogle »

Hexdump wrote:Are dividends pro-rated ?
A google search says that it is a rare event, but I seem to remember getting partial dividends.
Hmmm, it might have been when moving some funds from Fidelity to Vanguard, but I am not sure.

I always thought they were, even though you sell the fund before the record date.
And do mutual funds work differently than individual stocks ?
EG, I sell a fund or equity 1 day before the record date, and will I get some percent of the full dividend ?

thanks
Bond fund dividends are. In my experience, equity funds have not.
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Re: Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Post by LadyGeek »

ma21n2 has bumped this 2013 thread with a question for 2019. The discussion has been moved to a new thread. See: [2019] Where are Vanguard declared dividends posted?

Both threads are now in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum (general discussion).

(Thread locked to redirect the discussion to the new thread.)
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