Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

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codydh
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Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:23 pm

Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by codydh » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:28 pm

Hello! I'm new to this board as well as to investing. I have a Roth IRA at T. Rowe Price (TRRMX) that I'd like to move to a Vanguard Roth IRA (VFIFX). I can see how to complete the transaction online, but I'm not sure which option I want to select, either Buy New Investments (Use your liquidated proceeds to buy new mutual funds, stocks, bonds, CDs, ETFs at Vanguard or Vanguard Brokerage Services), or Move your exact investments from T Rowe Price (in-kind transfer) (Transfer your assets currently invested at T Rowe Price directly to Vanguard or Vanguard Brokerage Services (in-kind transfer). With an in-kind transfer you don't sell your assets before transferring them to us. When your assets arrive, you can then sell or exchange your investments.).

What I'm guessing, is if I chose to Buy New Investments, my T. Rowe Price fund will be sold, and the money will be invested at Vanguard's VFIFX, but that I'll pay taxes on cashing out the T. Rowe Price fund. Whereas, if I pick the latter option, I'll still own TRRMX, but Vanguard will hold it, and that perhaps I can convert it to VFIFX without paying taxes? But I'm not sure on this, and would appreciate any clarification anyone can offer!

Thanks for any help, looking forward to getting more involved here!

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Optimistic
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by Optimistic » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:06 pm

Hi codydh,
Welcome to the forum. I suggest calling Vanguard and asking them for assistance. They've walked people through this process a million times before.

Respectfully,
Optimistic

HouseStark
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by HouseStark » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:10 pm

Whether or not your fund holdings within your IRA are sold, you will not have any taxable income. That's the nature of an IRA. You only have income when a distribution from the IRA occurs, and possibly not even then, depending on the situation, such as for a qualified distribution from a Roth IRA, as you state you have. A sale of shares within the IRA is not a distribution. Doing a direct transfer of your IRA from T Row Price to Vanguard is also not a taxable event. Whether you choose to sell your funds should be determined by your desire to continue holding those funds and the ability of them to be held in your Vanguard IRA, because there are not tax implications.

umfundi
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by umfundi » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:31 pm

codydh wrote:Hello! I'm new to this board as well as to investing. I have a Roth IRA at T. Rowe Price (TRRMX) that I'd like to move to a Vanguard Roth IRA (VFIFX). I can see how to complete the transaction online, but I'm not sure which option I want to select, either Buy New Investments (Use your liquidated proceeds to buy new mutual funds, stocks, bonds, CDs, ETFs at Vanguard or Vanguard Brokerage Services), or Move your exact investments from T Rowe Price (in-kind transfer) (Transfer your assets currently invested at T Rowe Price directly to Vanguard or Vanguard Brokerage Services (in-kind transfer). With an in-kind transfer you don't sell your assets before transferring them to us. When your assets arrive, you can then sell or exchange your investments.).

What I'm guessing, is if I chose to Buy New Investments, my T. Rowe Price fund will be sold, and the money will be invested at Vanguard's VFIFX, but that I'll pay taxes on cashing out the T. Rowe Price fund. Whereas, if I pick the latter option, I'll still own TRRMX, but Vanguard will hold it, and that perhaps I can convert it to VFIFX without paying taxes? But I'm not sure on this, and would appreciate any clarification anyone can offer!

Thanks for any help, looking forward to getting more involved here!
Call Vanguard!

I did the same about 2 years ago. It was a mid six-figure amount, involving our taxable accounts, kid's UTMAs and Education IRAs. They assigned a specialist who guided us through and tracked the whole process.

Keith
Déjà Vu is not a prediction

JW-Retired
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by JW-Retired » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:55 pm

codydh wrote:Hello! I'm new to this board as well as to investing. I have a Roth IRA at T. Rowe Price (TRRMX) that I'd like to move to a Vanguard Roth IRA (VFIFX). I can see how to complete the transaction online, but I'm not sure which option I want to select, either Buy New Investments (Use your liquidated proceeds to buy new mutual funds, stocks, bonds, CDs, ETFs at Vanguard or Vanguard Brokerage Services), or Move your exact investments from T Rowe Price (in-kind transfer) (Transfer your assets currently invested at T Rowe Price directly to Vanguard or Vanguard Brokerage Services (in-kind transfer). With an in-kind transfer you don't sell your assets before transferring them to us. When your assets arrive, you can then sell or exchange your investments.).

What I'm guessing, is if I chose to Buy New Investments, my T. Rowe Price fund will be sold, and the money will be invested at Vanguard's VFIFX, but that I'll pay taxes on cashing out the T. Rowe Price fund. Whereas, if I pick the latter option, I'll still own TRRMX, but Vanguard will hold it, and that perhaps I can convert it to VFIFX without paying taxes? But I'm not sure on this, and would appreciate any clarification anyone can offer!

Thanks for any help, looking forward to getting more involved here!
You don't do either of those. Go to https://investor.vanguard.com/what-we-o ... o-vanguard
Download the "IRA asset transfer kit". Take a look at it. The 2 or 3 times I've done this I just filled it out and mailed it to Vanguard. They did the rest.

Certainly also a good idea to call Vanguard and ask.
JW
ps: you definitely don't have to pay any taxes if it goes from the old custodian IRA assets to new custodian IRA assets. The IRA asset kit makes this obvious.
Last edited by JW-Retired on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Retired at Last

chaz
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by chaz » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:01 pm

Call Vanguard. Be happy.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

catchingup888
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by catchingup888 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:17 pm

I've been facing more difficulty than would be expected with trying to move my IRA from TRP to Vanguard.
I set up an online account and got to the page that said

"To sell your investments prior to transferring them to Vanguard, click Save for Later and call us at 800-871-3884 Monday through Friday from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m., Eastern time."

So I did exactly that, and have spoken to at least 3 different Vanguard representatives about helping me liquidate my TRP holdings prior to them being transferred to Vanguard. I've gotten a variety of different answers and no solution. One phone rep even told me to liquidate my holdings myself, take the check, then set up a vanguard account. Another kept asking me what my objections to doing an in-kind transfer were (I'm like, "because I specified to you exactly how I want it") I talked to my TRP rep and he was aghast with the incompetence. He said, "We do this all the time. They can simply do a 3-way phone call, you give the go ahead to liquidate, and then we send your money over to Vanguard. Seamless." Unfortunately, all the people I've spoken to over at vanguard can't seem to do this simple thing.

NancyABQ
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by NancyABQ » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:28 pm

catchingup888 wrote:I talked to my TRP rep and he was aghast with the incompetence. He said, "We do this all the time. They can simply do a 3-way phone call, you give the go ahead to liquidate, and then we send your money over to Vanguard. Seamless." Unfortunately, all the people I've spoken to over at vanguard can't seem to do this simple thing.
Wow, totally different brokers involved, but yeah I did a rollover of my 401K from Fidelity to Schwab. I called Schwab, told them what I wanted to do. He walked me through opening up an empty Roth account (I already had a rollover IRA with them) and then we did a 3-way phone call with Fidelity and it was taken care of. It even involved making sure some after tax t401K money ended up in the Roth IRA. Completely painless.

I haven't dealt with Vanguard, but if they can't handle something like this after 3 phone calls, I think I am glad I am sticking with Schwab. :oops:

One other thing -- I think you want to do the transfer as a liquidation at TRP and transfer of cash, reinvest. However the details are handled, that is the simplest way since you don't want to keep the TRP funds. If it was a taxable account with tax consequences for liquidating, that would be a different matter. But for an IRA, that seems by far the simplest way to go.

catchingup888
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by catchingup888 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:36 pm

One other thing -- I think you want to do the transfer as a liquidation at TRP and transfer of cash, reinvest. However the details are handled, that is the simplest way since you don't want to keep the TRP funds. If it was a taxable account with tax consequences for liquidating, that would be a different matter. But for an IRA, that seems by far the simplest way to go.

That is exactly what I want to do. And when the vanguard phone rep can't figure it out, he/she transfers me to another department! I'm flabbergasted that I am putting this much effort into bringing tens of thousands of dollars to a business' front door, and they can't figure out how to bring it in!

Not an encouraging experience.

Wakefield1
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by Wakefield1 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:01 pm

I believe you can get a form from Vanguard by mail to fill out and sign to authorize Vanguard to do the custodian to custodian transfer of the Roth,there may be a difference between using Vanguard Brokerage Services and regular Vanguard. Usually if the paperwork is signed properly the first custodian will pass the funds along to the new one without a temper tantrum. I think T.Rowe.P. funds can be held inside Vanguard Brokerage Services. Of course then I'm sure fund exchange could be done inside Vanguard/VBS and in an IRA or Roth it would be tax free.
I think the application and signature forms package can be ordered from the website or by phone rep.
From what I see here about the phone problems of people trying to call Vanguard they must have a lot of new customers coming in ,a lot of new employees trying to learn the ropes and a learning curve. I hope they get things straightened out.

chaz
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by chaz » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:36 am

a very good suggestion.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

catchingup888
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by catchingup888 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:24 pm

I just called Vanguard again and now they want me to call TRP, liquidate my ROTH IRA investments into a money market account, then do a institution-to-institution transfer to a Vanguard money market account, and then after that I can set my allocations in a Vanguard ROTH IRA account.

I mean, come on people, is there not a less obtuse way of doing this? As I had previously mentioned, I had spoken to my TRP rep, and he even said that he would be happy to be party to a 3-way conference call in which my holdings at TRP get liquidated to cash and transferred to Vanguard with me having to do all this extra legwork. And he stated that he does this for TRP customers for I-to-I transfers all the time.

Wakefield1
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by Wakefield1 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:54 pm

:?: :shock: :?: :shock:
Some quite more than a few years ago,so my memory isn't too fresh,I had a (non-Roth) IRA in "America's Utility Fund" that I had gotten the idea that I wanted it at Vanguard. I think that was before there was such a thing as a Roth. If I remember,I called Vanguard and they sent paperwork that I filled out and signed,might have had to get notarized. Sent it back to Vanguard,the old mutual got liquidated to cash as I recall and the proceeds bought shares of the Vanguard Growth and Income Fund. I don't believe I had to contact the old fund company. The old mutual fund might have been slated to get sold or sent to a different advisor or merged or something. Or perhaps it was around that time that I met a really interesting gentleman who introduced himself to me.
Of course that was before the days of mutual fund shelf space,probably before exchange in kind and I don't think there was such a thing as Vanguard Brokerage Services. Perhaps the online brokerages used for day trading were just getting started.
I hope someone at Vanguard will see this thread.

gkaplan
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by gkaplan » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:57 pm

Hey, Chaz. Nice to hear from you.
Gordon

chaz
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by chaz » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:06 am

I'm glad to still be around on occasion.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

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simplesimon
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by simplesimon » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:35 am

I just helped my wife do this and it wasn't a total pain in the butt but some things were annoying.

I went with the "just fill out a form online and we'll get the transfer done for you" option on Vanguard's website. I still had to print out paperwork, including the latest TRP statement, and then send it in. The only form option I had was for an in-kind transfer since the TRP account was still in their mutual funds and not liquidated to cash. Vanguard then transferred the assets, relatively quickly, and the money was in the TRP fund in the Vanguard brokerage.

I then had to sell the fund, incurring a $35 fee, and then WAIT for the settlement of cash upon sale, and was not able to buy the Vanguard fund I wanted until a day or two later. This was the most aggravating part as I have done transactions on Fidelity and it is much smoother. As someone else has mentioned in a different thread, there's a lot of friction until you're all in Vanguard funds.

catchingup888
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by catchingup888 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:26 pm

I requested a call from a Vanguard brokerage services manager and got a call about 2 days later. He told me that now Vanguard only offers in-kind transfers, where as previously they had the option to have Vanguard help with liquidating the funds from the originating institution. Unfortunately, their webpage does NOT reflect this change at all, hence all the confusion among their staff and customers such as me. But apparently, their management is aware of this and I suppose the training just hasn't made the rounds. And of course, the website hasn't been updated. After my funds are transferred, I will make it a point to only ask to speak to management for all future issues. I don't think from the 7 phone calls I've endured that their regular staff can handle day to day issues with a reasonable degree of confidence.

catchingup888
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Re: Move IRA from T Rowe Price to Vanguard

Post by catchingup888 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:28 pm

simplesimon wrote:I just helped my wife do this and it wasn't a total pain in the butt but some things were annoying.

I went with the "just fill out a form online and we'll get the transfer done for you" option on Vanguard's website. I still had to print out paperwork, including the latest TRP statement, and then send it in. The only form option I had was for an in-kind transfer since the TRP account was still in their mutual funds and not liquidated to cash. Vanguard then transferred the assets, relatively quickly, and the money was in the TRP fund in the Vanguard brokerage.

I then had to sell the fund, incurring a $35 fee, and then WAIT for the settlement of cash upon sale, and was not able to buy the Vanguard fund I wanted until a day or two later. This was the most aggravating part as I have done transactions on Fidelity and it is much smoother. As someone else has mentioned in a different thread, there's a lot of friction until you're all in Vanguard funds.
I agree with you about Fidelity. For I-to-I tranfers, it was one-and-done for me, not 7 phone calls to clueless employees giving me all different and sometimes faulty information.

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