Golden Handcuffs

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
tigermilk
Posts: 707
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:32 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by tigermilk »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:37 pm 123, I am a one-man show. My first seven day vacation since August of 1999 was in September of 2019. There is no way out other than walking away. No competitor will purchase, since my persona is the company. I have many employees, but they cannot run the company since I am a licensed professional. It's an all or nothing walk-away. Just feeling the nudge to walk-away. I've sacrificed much, and I have some catching up to do on the living front.
Sadly, everyone is replaceable. Everyone. You may not think the business can survive, and it may not. But you owe it to yourself to try.
Greentree
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:34 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by Greentree »

I know that book recommendations can be way off but I’ll mention this anyways. Just finished “The Meaning of Anxiety” by Rollo May. It made me realize the many ways I set my life up to keep anxiety under control.

There are obvious ways people deal with anxiety like drinking, and then there are the less obvious like overworking, reducing the size of your world, etc.

Agree that you don’t have a big problem but you may be limiting the options in your life.
User avatar
3CT_Paddler
Posts: 3340
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:28 pm
Location: Marietta, GA

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by 3CT_Paddler »

OP, care to share what area of work you are licensed in?

Have you thought about spending some time identifying someone outside your company to take the reins if you don’t have a person or couple of people internally identified?
CloseEnough
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:34 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by CloseEnough »

I left a lot of money behind in making job changes to improve my life and in most cases those changes involved leaving money behind, substantial money. Every time was a good move without regrets. If your “identity” is just measured in money then yes, you will lose your identity. I think you may want to spend time evaluating what your identity is, what you want it to be and how best to achieve it. Good luck.
ponyboy
Posts: 1109
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:39 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by ponyboy »

54 isnt that young. Doesnt matter how much money you have, you cannot buy more time...yet.
T4REngineer
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 9:50 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by T4REngineer »

3CT_Paddler wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:39 am OP, care to share what area of work you are licensed in?

Have you thought about spending some time identifying someone outside your company to take the reins if you don’t have a person or couple of people internally identified?
I am very curious as well if the OP can share without making it personally identifiable - having employees but also not able to sell or pass on/train someone has me very curious what this is ( at first I thought something like underwater welding or specialty surgery etc. but even then - easy enough to train someone although it may take years but should be plenty of competitors who would value your client base etc. for something like those.

I think OP should start spreading the word that you want to exit and see what comes of it.
chrisdds98
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 9:55 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by chrisdds98 »

T4REngineer wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:46 am
3CT_Paddler wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:39 am OP, care to share what area of work you are licensed in?

Have you thought about spending some time identifying someone outside your company to take the reins if you don’t have a person or couple of people internally identified?
I am very curious as well if the OP can share without making it personally identifiable - having employees but also not able to sell or pass on/train someone has me very curious what this is ( at first I thought something like underwater welding or specialty surgery etc. but even then - easy enough to train someone although it may take years but should be plenty of competitors who would value your client base etc. for something like those.

I think OP should start spreading the word that you want to exit and see what comes of it.
not having enough money isn't the issue for OP. the bigger concern is if he will enjoy retirement or miss playing the game he's burned out from.
123
Posts: 7538
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by 123 »

We have a relative who joined a small private engineering firm as a "junior" when he graduated. The firm performs a niche service in a regional area. When he joined the firm there were two other "juniors" who were senior to him. When the original owner wanted to retire the "senior" bought him out and took over. Same thing happened when that senior wanted to retire. A few years back that senior retired and our relative bought out the firm. From his first day our relative was a real go-getter and wanted to show how capable he was so when there was a retirement he ran interference and encouraged his firm to hire "less expensive" talent. As a result the firm hired engineering talent that left for greener pastures after a couple of years. Of course this meant that he would continue to be the "star", there wasn't any competition (as he saw it). Now as the owner he finds himself overburdened with engineering issues his customers need resolved and he has begun to think about retirement. However since he did not mentor any new professional talent that has been motivated to stay he has no hope of a subordinate buying him out and taking over the firm. So he is sort of stuck. Without seasoned professional staff that his customers know the firm really doesn't have any value. When he leaves "poof" the business is over.

Had he intentionally mentored subordinates along the way he wouldn't have the problem and be in this pickle.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
theDON2050
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:56 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by theDON2050 »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:37 pm 123, I am a one-man show. My first seven day vacation since August of 1999 was in September of 2019. There is no way out other than walking away. No competitor will purchase, since my persona is the company. I have many employees, but they cannot run the company since I am a licensed professional. It's an all or nothing walk-away. Just feeling the nudge to walk-away. I've sacrificed much, and I have some catching up to do on the living front.
Are you in an industry that Private Equity is consolidating?
theDON2050
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:56 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by theDON2050 »

Deleted. I always post twice. I'm sorry everyone.
tim1999
Posts: 3906
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:16 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by tim1999 »

deleted. the OP's profession can be found in his post history, I was just speculating and thought it was something else.
Last edited by tim1999 on Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wannaretireearly
Posts: 1672
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Chris, how many healthy years do you think you'll have where you're not looking after others? Kids, Parents, in laws, future grandkids etc.

I try to guess my high/low numbers and come up with a high of 10 or 15 and a low of 0 to 5. So, I potentially have 0 to 15 years of truly free years to do as I wish with my time. This helps me frame why I want to retire at around 50 once my kids are in college, and reminds me of the increasing opportunity cost/decreasing marginal utility of working on someone else's clock.

Good luck, you've won the game at least twice over!
Death and taxes. Only one is under your control!
deltaneutral83
Posts: 1923
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by deltaneutral83 »

Curious how many younger BH would work 60 hour weeks for the next 20 years with no serious vacations as OP mentions for $7-10 mil and all that comes with little free time?
Afty
Posts: 1711
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by Afty »

tim1999 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:37 pm They could mentor another broker into taking over the helm but the firm's future value would probably depend on the success of that new person.
That’s true for any business, right? And what choice does the OP have anyway? They’re not going to live forever, so even if they work until they can’t, the day will come when they will either have to hand over the reins to someone else, or shut down the business.
User avatar
Wiggums
Posts: 4061
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:02 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by Wiggums »

I retired at 56 — not early in my mind. I have zero regrets and I’m busy everyday. Remember that time is not something you can get back. We buy whatever we want, however, we personally don’t want to accumulate more stuff. Our college age kids are BH’s and the market returns have treated them very well. They are off to a great start and they pay their own bills from their brokerage account. They are learned so much more, once Mom and Dad stepped to the side. Best parenting decision we ever made. We have a DAF and we are looking into granting scholarships.

You are not handcuffed at all, but I respect the great job that you have done with the business. Congratulations.

Good luck to you
KATNYC
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by KATNYC »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:42 pm I have $7,000,000 in Vanguard Index, 80% in Total Stock Market and 20% of that in Vanguard Total International Stock Index. I have another $4,000,000 in paid off real estate, for a total of $11M. I am 54 years old, and my company is thriving. I am burned out beyond belief, but I am so young to walk away from such a lucrative business. I have read plenty on this forum about "winning the game." I can walk away now, but will I lose my identity in the process? I'd love to hear comments from you on walking away and never looking back. I haven't commented in a long time, but I'd love to hear from the "winners."
Congratulations! If we had $11 million in assets, game over. My company offers a sabbatical every 10 years and I think after the second one, a lot of people consider not coming back and a few have left. During my sabbatical, we took multiple international trips and it was amazing. In some of our other travels, we've met retired people who waited to take such trips. If you are burned out, it's time to talk to someone about why you want to stay in the business. You need to work on a succession plan and help an employee or colleague take over so you can at least semi-retire.
User avatar
Elric
Posts: 423
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:23 am
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by Elric »

Obviously we don't know your profession, as you haven't shared it. But in many professions, the licensed person at the top will bring someone else who is licensed in with the intent that they will take over after some number of years. This lets the original owner cut back their hours while allowing clients to get to know and trust the new person and vice-versa. The financial details vary a great deal from case to case, but as someone else has pointed out, even when the original owner's name is the company name and the brand as well, hand-offs have occurred.

This could provide an alternative between stay until you can't do it anymore and quit tomorrow. Start cutting back, keeps your staff employed, and perhaps let's you get some $ (not that you need it) for the goodwill value of your name and company.
"the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence." Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis
newyorker
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 7:59 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by newyorker »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:58 pm Do you have regrets leaving money on the table retiring at 50? Maybe I have something to prove, growing up in poverty. I probably do need to speak with a therapist, and thank you for that recommendation. I just wondered if anyone here wished they hadn't pulled the plug so early. Did you get bored leaving at such an early age?
I feel you. But you dont have to prove anything to anyone is the conclusion I have reached. Who the hack cares? Do what makes you happy. You cant take money with you when you die. You only live once.
User avatar
burgrat
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:38 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by burgrat »

Elric wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:58 pm Obviously we don't know your profession, as you haven't shared it. But in many professions, the licensed person at the top will bring someone else who is licensed in with the intent that they will take over after some number of years. This lets the original owner cut back their hours while allowing clients to get to know and trust the new person and vice-versa. The financial details vary a great deal from case to case, but as someone else has pointed out, even when the original owner's name is the company name and the brand as well, hand-offs have occurred.

This could provide an alternative between stay until you can't do it anymore and quit tomorrow. Start cutting back, keeps your staff employed, and perhaps let's you get some $ (not that you need it) for the goodwill value of your name and company.
This is a public forum and previous posts by members can easily be looked up.
PowderDay9
Posts: 447
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:29 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by PowderDay9 »

White Coat Investor wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:34 pm Struggling with similar issues since becoming FI a few years ago. I've been hiring and delegating more in my business and doing less clinical work and making sure I don't miss a workout, a trip, or an event that would cause me to regret still working. I spent 3 1/2 weeks this Spring rafting the Grand Canyon, was home for four days, then off for another 6 to Lake Powell. Home for a week. Back for a week to Lake Powell. Home for a week. Now headed to Zion for a week. Then I'll be home for a week and off to the Boundary Waters. Then home for a week and off to float another river. Home for a week, then off to the Oregon Coast and then the Tetons.

My point isn't to brag, it's to show you that you need to figure out what you would rather be doing and see if it is compatible with still working in some fashion. If it isn't, then walk away.

I'm still getting enjoyment from both of my jobs, but not enough enjoyment to miss out on much of life. Right now I seem to be able to do both, but if that changed...it's pretty obvious what would be dropped.

Hope that rambling helps you figure out what to do with your life and your company.
I'm curious to know how you do this with a big family. Are they coming with you on any of these trips or do the kids stay home with other family members?

Your podcast is the best and I hope you don't quit/sell the WCI anytime soon! :sharebeer
Outer Marker
Posts: 1975
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:01 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by Outer Marker »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:42 pm I am 54 years old, and my company is thriving. I am burned out beyond belief, but I am so young to walk away . . .
Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos were/are almost exactly your age when they left the CEO positions at the extraordinarily successful companies they had built and handed off the "day to day" operations to their successors. Small sample size, but seems about the age where big "winners" decide to dial it back and enjoy life a bit. You may currently be a "one man show" - but no one is irreplaceable. Frankly, I think you have a responsibility to your "many employees" to come up with a succession plan and hand off the reins to a worthy and well trained successor. Working on that plan will kill two birds with one stone.
McGowan
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:30 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by McGowan »

OP,

In most businesses, 20% of the customers/patients are 80% of the problems. Fire/get rid of that 20% of your business and you will find less stress in your life. I think you may be at a point where you feel you need to lower the stress before you can really think clearly about your options.

You may find that you can have your cake and eat it too as you transition to something else.
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 8647
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by JoeRetire »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:42 pmI can walk away now, but will I lose my identity in the process?
That's completely up to you, and completely within your control.

Over my career, whenever a job didn't fit my life, I walked away - and always into a job that fit better.

You own your identity.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 74021
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by LadyGeek »

I removed an off-topic post and reply. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters. Attacks on individuals, insults, name calling, trolling, baiting or other attempts to sow dissension are not acceptable.
This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (career guidance). Please stay focused on your own situation.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 25027
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by abuss368 »

Dave55 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:42 pm
Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:42 pm I have $7,000,000 in Vanguard Index, 80% in Total Stock Market and 20% of that in Vanguard Total International Stock Index. I have another $4,000,000 in paid off real estate, for a total of $11M. I am 54 years old, and my company is thriving. I am burned out beyond belief, but I am so young to walk away from such a lucrative business. I have read plenty on this forum about "winning the game." I can walk away now, but will I lose my identity in the process? I'd love to hear comments from you on walking away and never looking back. I haven't commented in a long time, but I'd love to hear from the "winners."
No, your identity will shift to your "authentic self" if you allow it to, from your "career self".

Dave
Hi Dave -

Excellent personal advice. One must be in balance between personal and business. I have found over the years that both the two have grown closer. Then there is harmony.

Best.
Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 25027
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by abuss368 »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:42 pm I have $7,000,000 in Vanguard Index, 80% in Total Stock Market and 20% of that in Vanguard Total International Stock Index. I have another $4,000,000 in paid off real estate, for a total of $11M. I am 54 years old, and my company is thriving. I am burned out beyond belief, but I am so young to walk away from such a lucrative business. I have read plenty on this forum about "winning the game." I can walk away now, but will I lose my identity in the process? I'd love to hear comments from you on walking away and never looking back. I haven't commented in a long time, but I'd love to hear from the "winners."
Hi Chris33 -

You may also want to consider an allocation to bonds. The money we can not afford to lose should be invested here.

Vanguard Total Bond is an excellent fund for consideration.

With an age of 54 years, sometimes it becomes more important to protect what we have accumulated than to take risks in an attempt to get more.

Best.
Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
Triple digit golfer
Posts: 7899
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by Triple digit golfer »

Find yourself an identity that isn't work related. Become Chris the golfer, Chris the weight lifter, Chris the bird watcher, Chris the volunteer at the food pantry, etc.
Soon2BXProgrammer
Posts: 2412
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:30 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:42 pm I have $7,000,000 in Vanguard Index, 80% in Total Stock Market and 20% of that in Vanguard Total International Stock Index. I have another $4,000,000 in paid off real estate, for a total of $11M. I am 54 years old, and my company is thriving. I am burned out beyond belief, but I am so young to walk away from such a lucrative business. I have read plenty on this forum about "winning the game." I can walk away now, but will I lose my identity in the process? I'd love to hear comments from you on walking away and never looking back. I haven't commented in a long time, but I'd love to hear from the "winners."
i'm 36 and have "enough" i tried to quit software engineering and start a financial planning practice then the pandemic happened. I couldn't take it, i took a stay at home engineering job for now. but my eye is still on pivoting to something i'd rather do.

I've won. I'm evolving my identity to what i want to be, not who i was, its goign to take time.
Chartered Financial Consultant (ChFC®) -- However I am not your advisor.
User avatar
billthecat
Posts: 665
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:50 pm
Location: USA

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by billthecat »

Image
We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails • Warning: you will succeed at whatever you focus on, good or bad
IMO
Posts: 1442
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by IMO »

SmileyFace wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:59 pm Golden Handcuffs is when someone has 100's of thousands in unvested stock options or RSUs with little networth to turn to. They have been handcuffed to their job. You are the opposite - you have no handcuffs but are sitting on a goldmine of $11M.
Golden Handcuff's is typically referenced when people talk about having to stay with a current employer to collect their pension when they would otherwise leave the job they are no longer satisfied with in life.

OP problem to me sounds more like you have the Golden Willy Wonka ticket vs. Golden Handcuffs. If the post is real, my spouse will get a chuckle from it when I tell her about it. "My 4% spend if I retired today is $440,000 year or $36,666 month before Social Security kicks in". Honestly OP, you should do some soul searching or even seek counseling to get through this difficult situation. Not trying to minimize any great achievement in life, but honestly, try to put this in perspective.
silverlitegs
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by silverlitegs »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:37 pm 123, I am a one-man show. My first seven day vacation since August of 1999 was in September of 2019. There is no way out other than walking away. No competitor will purchase, since my persona is the company. I have many employees, but they cannot run the company since I am a licensed professional. It's an all or nothing walk-away. Just feeling the nudge to walk-away. I've sacrificed much, and I have some catching up to do on the living front.
What kind of license do you have that someone else doesnt?
Mr.BB
Posts: 1665
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 10:10 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by Mr.BB »

billthecat wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:34 pm Image
LOL! Perfect
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."
User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 15294
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by White Coat Investor »

PowderDay9 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:16 am
White Coat Investor wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:34 pm Struggling with similar issues since becoming FI a few years ago. I've been hiring and delegating more in my business and doing less clinical work and making sure I don't miss a workout, a trip, or an event that would cause me to regret still working. I spent 3 1/2 weeks this Spring rafting the Grand Canyon, was home for four days, then off for another 6 to Lake Powell. Home for a week. Back for a week to Lake Powell. Home for a week. Now headed to Zion for a week. Then I'll be home for a week and off to the Boundary Waters. Then home for a week and off to float another river. Home for a week, then off to the Oregon Coast and then the Tetons.

My point isn't to brag, it's to show you that you need to figure out what you would rather be doing and see if it is compatible with still working in some fashion. If it isn't, then walk away.

I'm still getting enjoyment from both of my jobs, but not enough enjoyment to miss out on much of life. Right now I seem to be able to do both, but if that changed...it's pretty obvious what would be dropped.

Hope that rambling helps you figure out what to do with your life and your company.
I'm curious to know how you do this with a big family. Are they coming with you on any of these trips or do the kids stay home with other family members?

Your podcast is the best and I hope you don't quit/sell the WCI anytime soon! :sharebeer
I don't really consider us to have a large family (4 kids), but I also live in Utah. We have families with 6, 9, and even 12 on our street!

They come on some trips, but not a lot. It just varies by the trip. Let me give you a few examples from this year:

Grand Canyon- Just me for the first half, Katie joined for the second half. Grandparents came into town to watch the kids.
Lake Powell- Just me with the guys.
2nd Lake Powell trip- Took my son, my wife took the girls to Martha's Vineyard.
Zion- Took the two girls and my wife. My wife flew the kids out to their grandparents and came back same day. Will do the same at the end of the week.
Boundary Waters- Everybody coming.
Desolation Canyon- Everybody coming but the 17 year old who will probably run wild that week.
Oregon Coast- Everybody coming
Tetons- Just my wife and I, still figuring out the kids. Short trip so probably leave them with the 17 year old.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
PowderDay9
Posts: 447
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:29 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by PowderDay9 »

White Coat Investor wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:03 pm I don't really consider us to have a large family (4 kids), but I also live in Utah. We have families with 6, 9, and even 12 on our street!

They come on some trips, but not a lot. It just varies by the trip. Let me give you a few examples from this year:

Grand Canyon- Just me for the first half, Katie joined for the second half. Grandparents came into town to watch the kids.
Lake Powell- Just me with the guys.
2nd Lake Powell trip- Took my son, my wife took the girls to Martha's Vineyard.
Zion- Took the two girls and my wife. My wife flew the kids out to their grandparents and came back same day. Will do the same at the end of the week.
Boundary Waters- Everybody coming.
Desolation Canyon- Everybody coming but the 17 year old who will probably run wild that week.
Oregon Coast- Everybody coming
Tetons- Just my wife and I, still figuring out the kids. Short trip so probably leave them with the 17 year old.
Considering that the average US family size is just under 2 kids, I'd consider 4 large but I can image that might be small in SLC. 12 kids!?! Wow.

We're at 2 (young) kids but considering more. You're living my FI dream life as we love the outdoors too, especially out west. I guess it helps that your oldest is 17 and it's easier to travel a lot once the kids are older.

Enjoy the trips! Cheers.
User avatar
SmileyFace
Posts: 6566
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by SmileyFace »

IMO wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:40 pm
SmileyFace wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:59 pm Golden Handcuffs is when someone has 100's of thousands in unvested stock options or RSUs with little networth to turn to. They have been handcuffed to their job. You are the opposite - you have no handcuffs but are sitting on a goldmine of $11M.
Golden Handcuff's is typically referenced when people talk about having to stay with a current employer to collect their pension when they would otherwise leave the job they are no longer satisfied with in life.

OP problem to me sounds more like you have the Golden Willy Wonka ticket vs. Golden Handcuffs. If the post is real, my spouse will get a chuckle from it when I tell her about it. "My 4% spend if I retired today is $440,000 year or $36,666 month before Social Security kicks in". Honestly OP, you should do some soul searching or even seek counseling to get through this difficult situation. Not trying to minimize any great achievement in life, but honestly, try to put this in perspective.
It referred to pensions back when pensions where common in the corporate world. Now that pensions are mostly a thing of the past they have come to mean sitting on a pile of unvested equity.
dcabler
Posts: 1930
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:30 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by dcabler »

For many of us who wish to retire early, whether we're a business owner or merely an employee somewhere, there is always something we have to walk away from to make that happen. I can certainly understand the emotional investment one might have as a business owner. That can happen as well as an employee somewhere, though for me that sort of thinking is a couple of decades behind me. At some point, something clicked and I decided that the purpose of work, for me, is to enable life - not to actually be life.

My plans are to do it next summer because I have significant RSU's vesting from Feb to Jun and because my daughter will be graduating college next year, though honestly she's not costing us that much. There will be more RSU's the following year and the year after that, I'm sure, that I'd be walking away from.

Certainty vs Uncertainty at this point:
Certain: I will be 1 year older and I will be 1 year closer to being 6 feet under. Though I suppose that work stress could accelerate the final end date.
Uncertain: The value of my RSU's, some of which are company performance based with a chance they'll pay $0. Whether the company even wants me or our remote office around as the entire company is starting a transformation with new leadership onboard.

I can already see that at my company's current stock price assuming all RSU's pay out, another year's 401K withholdings (I pre-load early in the year) and a half a year of savings into my taxable investments won't move the needle all that much in terms of what I can withdraw.

In other words, it's good to have a plan with enough margin that if one gets fed up, the plug can be pulled at any time. Some days, I'm darned close to doing just that...

Cheers.
Last edited by dcabler on Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:56 am, edited 7 times in total.
Somethingwitty92912
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:43 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by Somethingwitty92912 »

You can’t spend the money if you have a heart attack or brain aneurysm and die.

Sell the business stay on as an advisor to the new owner till your no longer needed. Find a hobby, spend time with family, find something that makes you happy every day.
nguy44
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:52 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by nguy44 »

The issue, in my view, is less "what am I walking away from?" and more "what am I choosing to walk towards?"

If you have that "walking away from" feeling, it means you are looking back so much you do not know where you are going. And you will likely not be happy about what you are leaving.

If you can develop a "choosing to walk towards" attitude, you have no need to look back, as you are having too much fun looking forward.

I was able to develop the latter, so no aspects of any definition of "golden handcuffs" in relation to work mattered to me :happy ,
stoptothink
Posts: 9723
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by stoptothink »

PowderDay9 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:19 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:03 pm I don't really consider us to have a large family (4 kids), but I also live in Utah. We have families with 6, 9, and even 12 on our street!

They come on some trips, but not a lot. It just varies by the trip. Let me give you a few examples from this year:

Grand Canyon- Just me for the first half, Katie joined for the second half. Grandparents came into town to watch the kids.
Lake Powell- Just me with the guys.
2nd Lake Powell trip- Took my son, my wife took the girls to Martha's Vineyard.
Zion- Took the two girls and my wife. My wife flew the kids out to their grandparents and came back same day. Will do the same at the end of the week.
Boundary Waters- Everybody coming.
Desolation Canyon- Everybody coming but the 17 year old who will probably run wild that week.
Oregon Coast- Everybody coming
Tetons- Just my wife and I, still figuring out the kids. Short trip so probably leave them with the 17 year old.
Considering that the average US family size is just under 2 kids, I'd consider 4 large but I can image that might be small in SLC. 12 kids!?! Wow.

We're at 2 (young) kids but considering more. You're living my FI dream life as we love the outdoors too, especially out west. I guess it helps that your oldest is 17 and it's easier to travel a lot once the kids are older.

Enjoy the trips! Cheers.
It's pretty wild with kids around here (I live in the same area). We're in a townhome community (everything has 3 bedrooms) and we have two neighbors with 7 kids. My best friend, who lives ~2 miles down the road (in a SFH) just had their 6th (all boys) and they are just getting started (they want 10+). My boss has 14, good thing he's worth 9-figures.
gogreen
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:38 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by gogreen »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:37 pm My first seven day vacation since August of 1999 was in September of 2019.
Hmm, well, ok.
I think it's more about your values. I downshifted A LOT in late 20s after having the first kid and worked as a programmer for almost 10 yrs after that to make sure I have quality time with kids. I had 1% of your NW :mrgreen: Started to climb back in enterprise, but still not full speed - want 3 more yrs with the little one.
But if you enjoy your lifestyle - why not? Some ppl do not want rafting in Grand Canyon but want to work till the funeral.
1squirrel
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:11 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by 1squirrel »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:58 pm Do you have regrets leaving money on the table retiring at 50? Maybe I have something to prove, growing up in poverty.
I'm in my 60's now. I regret that I didn't take more time off the table.
You over compensated that poverty chip on your shoulder, your net worth outperforms at least 98% of the world population.
Now allow yourself to become as happy as you are rich.
systemr
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:42 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by systemr »

what do you need more for? I'm 38 and 10MM+ liquid myself, used to have a team of 40+ w/ people and got tried of it all. Took some time off and then took a lower stress job (to give me some structure and social connections) where I probably work about 1hr a day and am currently working remotely on a tropical island. Life is short, at this level of assets your money works for you - you don't work for it.
Firemenot
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:48 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by Firemenot »

systemr wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:50 pm what do you need more for? I'm 38 and 10MM+ liquid myself, used to have a team of 40+ w/ people and got tried of it all. Took some time off and then took a lower stress job (to give me some structure and social connections) where I probably work about 1hr a day and am currently working remotely on a tropical island. Life is short, at this level of assets your money works for you - you don't work for it.
What kind of job requires 1 hr work a day? Sign me up!
teniralc
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 8:57 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by teniralc »

Mr.BB wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:02 pm
Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:58 pm Do you have regrets leaving money on the table retiring at 50? Maybe I have something to prove, growing up in poverty. I probably do need to speak with a therapist, and thank you for that recommendation. I just wondered if anyone here wished they hadn't pulled the plug so early. Did you get bored leaving at such an early age?
Can you take a couple of months off from your work to see how that would feel?
+! (or take a year off)
User avatar
TimeRunner
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:23 pm
Location: Beach-side, CA

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by TimeRunner »

Golden handcuffs is the civil servant whose pension gets a bump after age 62 and who is a few years shy, sick of her job, and knows she needs to stay to get the bump.

Golden handcuffs is not you. You've got Golden Cufflinks. :wink:
One cannot enlighten the unconscious. | If you think you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.
systemr
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:42 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by systemr »

Firemenot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:38 pm
systemr wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:50 pm what do you need more for? I'm 38 and 10MM+ liquid myself, used to have a team of 40+ w/ people and got tried of it all. Took some time off and then took a lower stress job (to give me some structure and social connections) where I probably work about 1hr a day and am currently working remotely on a tropical island. Life is short, at this level of assets your money works for you - you don't work for it.
What kind of job requires 1 hr work a day? Sign me up!
startup that got acquired by a bigger company on the other side of the country and everybody is just resting and vesting :D
MikeG62
Posts: 3753
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by MikeG62 »

Chris33 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:58 pm Do you have regrets leaving money on the table retiring at 50? Maybe I have something to prove, growing up in poverty. I probably do need to speak with a therapist, and thank you for that recommendation. I just wondered if anyone here wished they hadn't pulled the plug so early. Did you get bored leaving at such an early age?
Semi-retired at 44 (went to a part time schedule) and fully retired at 53 (six years ago). DW was a SAHM all the while.

Zero regrets. Never looked back - not once. In fact, I don't think I've ever thought about what I would be doing at any time if I were still working. It's as if it were in a prior lifetime. FWIW, I was in the c-suite as well, so very intense and challenging work (and working with the best and brightest people).

Only time I got bored was during the pandemic. Otherwise too many interesting, fun and betters ways to spend my time than working once I determined I had enough money that I did not need to work anymore and concluded I was "done".

Good luck. Sounds like you are in very good shape financially. Enjoy life.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience
TheHiker
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:34 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by TheHiker »

StealthRabbit wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:45 pm Never ONCE felt it was the wrong decision. or too soon...certainly never bored!!! there are a million things to do / invest your time / expertise, return to school... but (for me)... Healthcare insurance became impossible 2 yrs after my exodus (ACA), so we struggled for 14 yrs trying many ways to get HC coverage, where if I had stayed on the j-o-b that would not have had to be a worry. (but I would have probably died there..., as 4 friends and co-workers did)
Can you expand on the health insurance angle? Why ACA was or was not an option for you?

For me health insurance is one big reason I still keep working (golden handcuffs in the form of ~1M unvested RSUs is another).
DW has several chronic health issues which I would not be able to cover out of pocket.
StealthRabbit
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:25 am

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by StealthRabbit »

TheHiker wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:16 pm
StealthRabbit wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:45 pm ... Healthcare insurance became impossible 2 yrs after my exodus (ACA), so we struggled for 14 yrs trying many ways to get HC coverage, where if I had stayed on the j-o-b that would not have had to be a worry. (but I would have probably died there..., as 4 friends and co-workers did)
Can you expand on the health insurance angle? Why ACA was or was not an option for you?

For me health insurance is one big reason I still keep working (golden handcuffs in the form of ~1M unvested RSUs is another).
DW has several chronic health issues which I would not be able to cover out of pocket.
#1, DW with chronic issues sounds way too familiar. So... you best figure out how to keep her happy, healthy, well cared for, entertained / capable of doing all things possible as soon as possible. Mine LOVED our one-yr RTW trip with no agenda / no reservations... just follow the long days of spring westward, country to country and attend spring and summer outdoor concerts and events, county and state fairs...camping, hiking, swimming, sailing. Lots of sheep shearing and working dog trials in NZ, AU, Middle East, Portugal, Scotland, Wales, Ireland.

Do what suits her needs, and do it soon!

Our ACA (Infancy) is far different that 'today's ACA (Established), I would not think twice about it today, It is here to stay for at least 7-12 more yrs, and a Silver Plan can be very comprehensive and affordable (with suppliments).
https://www.kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

ACA happened AFTER I had left employment (@ age 49) I had been happy with my HDLP plan, which was ceased due to ACA.
Since ACA was in it's infancy, there were no acceptable 'affordable' coverages, and subsidies and exchanges were not well established. (Went from $300 / mo HDLP to $1700/ month immediately. Eventually non-subsidized ACA went to $2800 / month at which time we were uninsured,
so went with:
2) Healthcare Cost Sharing network (Which was OK at $300 / month for (2)).
3) Also used International care (Thailand) (self Pay),
4) Cobra (when available)
5) College student (until school cancelled availability for people over age 40),
6) Had spouse take a PT gig to gain SS minimum credits and HC. (that was very short lived, the minute she attained 40 credits... POOF, GONE from employment),
7) back on Cobra ($950/ month)
8) I took PT gigs in Asia and got HC coverage
9) Then Cobra
10) Then ACA Subsized (very subsidized) (for only 4 months...)
11) Miracle.(?)..+/- ex company offered a 'retro active' severance (my 3rd with same company), and covered HC at company rates for 3 yrs (until age 65) ~$500 / mo... (I was no longer eligible for subsidized ACA due to retro active company program)
TheHiker
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:34 pm

Re: Golden Handcuffs

Post by TheHiker »

StealthRabbit, thats a scary store re health coverage.
I am basically torn between spending more time with my family (which may be running short) vs keeping working to ensure DW has access to the best care. The golden handcuffs are a thing. Currently making a lot of money, but don't have enough net worth to just retire.
Looking a the ACA options, they seem available and affordable where we are. But most plans don't cover the doctors we need hence the hesitation...
Post Reply