Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

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GeraniumLover
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by GeraniumLover »

smihaila wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:08 pm
GeraniumLover wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:23 am It looks as if Dominion (mentioned/linked to upthread) is still offering 1.5% on deposits $50k and up, at least for now.
Do you happen to know what's Dominion Energy's credit rating?
Seems to be Baa2 (Moody's) according to this link:
https://investors.dominionenergy.com/fi ... ion-energy
No I don't, but upthread it said their rating was lower than Toyota's
LSLover
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by LSLover »

GM is still paying 1.5%. Anyone has experience with them?

https://www.rightnotes.com/
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by White Coat Investor »

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:31 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:15 am
grayparrot wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:21 pm
Really? 1.5% is attractive for an unsecured debt? Are you only comparing them to cash? Are you really comfortable with unsecured debt for your cash needs? I'm not. Mine is either in a MMF or an FDIC insured savings account.
Can you tell me where you find MF or ETF that are FDIC insured. I hear everyone worried about being FDIC iinsured but most of my money is in the MARKET and its not protected by FDIC.
You seem to have skipped "for your cash needs."
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Stinky
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

LSLover wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 11:34 am GM is still paying 1.5%. Anyone has experience with them?

https://www.rightnotes.com/
I expect that the customer experience would be substantially similar to Toyota, since service is handled by the same vendor.

The 0.15% additional interest with GM will earn you the princely sum of $0.12 per month per $1,000 invested. For that trivial difference, I’ll stick with Toyota’s higher credit rating.
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smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

Stinky wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:44 pm I expect that the customer experience would be substantially similar to Toyota, since service is handled by the same vendor.

The 0.15% additional interest with GM will earn you the princely sum of $0.12 per month per $1,000 invested. For that trivial difference, I’ll stick with Toyota’s higher credit rating.
0.15% for 500K = $750 / year (minus income tax). So, pre-tax, it's a monthly $62.50 that Toyota Financial Services is stealing from my pocket. That amounts to a monthly XCel energy bill (for electricity + nat gas), or one week worth of food from Walmart, for a family of 4...
lakpr
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by lakpr »

smihaila wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 4:47 pm
Stinky wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:44 pm I expect that the customer experience would be substantially similar to Toyota, since service is handled by the same vendor.

The 0.15% additional interest with GM will earn you the princely sum of $0.12 per month per $1,000 invested. For that trivial difference, I’ll stick with Toyota’s higher credit rating.
0.15% for 500K = $750 / year (minus income tax). So, pre-tax, it's a monthly $62.50 that Toyota Financial Services is stealing from my pocket. That amounts to a monthly XCel energy bill (for electricity + nat gas), or one week worth of food from Walmart, for a family of 4...
I absolutely get what you are saying, but I doubt that a family of 4 being able to invest $500k in a money market fund would feel the pinch of losing $750 per year. I mean, the demographics are completely different.
smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

lakpr wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:33 pm I absolutely get what you are saying, but I doubt that a family of 4 being able to invest $500k in a money market fund would feel the pinch of losing $750 per year. I mean, the demographics are completely different.
I'm afraid I don't understand. What difference investing 500K in a money market would it make? Money ($750) is money...and it counts especially in a family of 4 situation, and with one sole breadwinner...Oh, maybe your statement about "the demographics are completely different" kind of implied that I might be rich?? Far from that - those as my whole lifetime savings, money hard-earner over a very loooong period of time.

Anyway, I've scheduled a full transfer out of Toyota's IncomeDriver Notes. I cannot stand the feeling of "backstabbing" with these rate cuts (even if, yes, they have not violated any service agreement).
I'll earn only 0.59% API with SFGIdirect.com, but at least that will feel safer and more honest (even if, SFGI can also cut rates even further, and without any notices).

I don't know where I'll put this hard-earned money into (my whole life savings).
Is there any hope for the stock market to experience a significant cool-off?

The inflation is a bitch...
Last edited by smihaila on Sat May 15, 2021 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

P.S. Hopefully Toyota IncomeDriver Notes / NY Melon, will credit me at the end of this month, for the 18 days worth of my interest (which is the time my money stayed invested for this month of May)?
Or will I lose that interest?

Thanks.
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Stinky
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

smihaila wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:53 pm P.S. Hopefully Toyota IncomeDriver Notes / NY Melon, will credit me at the end of this month, for the 18 days worth of my interest (which is the time my money stayed invested for this month of May)?
Or will I lose that interest?

Thanks.
I suspect the former. You’ll get your “X” days at 1.50. But that’s just my guess.

We’ll all find out together in early June.
Last edited by Stinky on Sat May 15, 2021 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by SlowMovingInvestor »

smihaila wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 4:47 pm
Stinky wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:44 pm I expect that the customer experience would be substantially similar to Toyota, since service is handled by the same vendor.

The 0.15% additional interest with GM will earn you the princely sum of $0.12 per month per $1,000 invested. For that trivial difference, I’ll stick with Toyota’s higher credit rating.
0.15% for 500K = $750 / year (minus income tax). So, pre-tax, it's a monthly $62.50 that Toyota Financial Services is stealing from my pocket. That amounts to a monthly XCel energy bill (for electricity + nat gas), or one week worth of food from Walmart, for a family of 4...
Stealing from your pocket ? Toyota has a credit rating several notches higher than GM (which, it may be noted, has gone into bankruptcy once). If anything, I'd say GM is 'stealing' from you by only giving you a minor amount more despite having a lower rating.
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smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:20 pm Stealing from your pocket ? Toyota has a credit rating several notches higher than GM (which, it may be noted, has gone into bankruptcy once). If anything, I'd say GM is 'stealing' from you by only giving you a minor amount more despite having a lower rating.
That's a fair point.

But by the same rationale, how low can the "pretentious" Toyota can go, to justify it's kick-ass stellar credit rating? :). At the end of the day, I tend to agree with the other forumist: the risk associated to these unsecured-debt-instruments-backed-up-by-absolutely-nothing, doesn't seem to justify this "so-proudly-offered" yield.
Makefile
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Makefile »

Stinky wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:13 am It's interesting that Toyota Motor Credit Corporation is choosing to fund some of their financing needs through direct-lending from individuals, rather than issuing corporate debt or using commercial paper.

I'd definitely want to know if these notes have a rating from a major rating agency - and if so, what it is. I'd also like to know the ratings, if any, of TMCC's other debt.
I just noticed this thread with the additional posts about the rate change, and this is a good point.

It made me think about Vanguard's decision to exit the prime money market fund business last year. Prime money market funds would be the biggest market for these if they were issued as commercial paper instead, right?

I've seen rumblings about another potential round of money market fund reform after March 2020. Here is one article I ran into about it: https://riabiz.com/a/2021/5/10/fidelity ... -spotlight

Could it be that there are actually good reasons for these companies to want to bypass money market funds and go straight to the investor?
smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

Makefile wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:09 pm
Stinky wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:13 am It's interesting that Toyota Motor Credit Corporation is choosing to fund some of their financing needs through direct-lending from individuals, rather than issuing corporate debt or using commercial paper.

I'd definitely want to know if these notes have a rating from a major rating agency - and if so, what it is. I'd also like to know the ratings, if any, of TMCC's other debt.
I just noticed this thread with the additional posts about the rate change, and this is a good point.

It made me think about Vanguard's decision to exit the prime money market fund business last year. Prime money market funds would be the biggest market for these if they were issued as commercial paper instead, right?

I've seen rumblings about another potential round of money market fund reform after March 2020. Here is one article I ran into about it: https://riabiz.com/a/2021/5/10/fidelity ... -spotlight

Could it be that there are actually good reasons for these companies to want to bypass money market funds and go straight to the investor?
Good observations. Thank you also for sharing that article. This particular statement in there, had caught my eye: "Yet if money market funds can't offer higher returns than typical bank accounts--and they add more risk--then it's curtains, says Gary Zimmerman, CEO of New York City RIA cash manager, MaxMyInterest, via email."

And whoa, are they planning, with those "reforms", to "break the dollar" and make those money market funds completely speculative and arbitrary? :)
Eowyn
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Eowyn »

stay_the_course wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:06 pm

Source on the US citizenship requirement? The FAQs https://www.incomedrivernotes.com/en.html#faqs seem to require only SSN and US address.
That's right. Based on personal experience, US Citizenship is not a requirement.
rooms222
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by rooms222 »

smihaila wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:18 pm I also found this:
https://www.1ffc.com/investments/#investments
https://www.1ffc.com/investments/weekly-rates

Does anyone know anything about this "1st Franklin Financial"?
It seems that any enrollment application is performed solely via snail mail (like Dominion Energy)?
They are an old-fashioned finance company based in the South, and only residents of Georgia can buy the demand notes. Reminds me of the Morris Plan of Indianapolis collapse. Dominion or GM would be my choice of those three at 1.5%.
smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

rooms222 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 4:10 pm
smihaila wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:18 pm I also found this:
https://www.1ffc.com/investments/#investments
https://www.1ffc.com/investments/weekly-rates

Does anyone know anything about this "1st Franklin Financial"?
It seems that any enrollment application is performed solely via snail mail (like Dominion Energy)?
They are an old-fashioned finance company based in the South, and only residents of Georgia can buy the demand notes. Reminds me of the Morris Plan of Indianapolis collapse. Dominion or GM would be my choice of those three at 1.5%.
Looks like 1st Franklin Financial has 3 investments available. And out of those 3, the "Commercial Paper" option is available also to non-Georgia residents, except for California:
https://www.1ffc.com/investments/faq
https://www.1ffc.com/investments/commercial-paper

3.50% for 180-260 days??
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