Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

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Topic Author
lgb
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:46 am

Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by lgb »

Was considering finally investing a few Inherited IRA's ($190K), Inherited ROTH ($6K), and a Joint Taxable account ($40K) from its current Core Settlement cash and Ultra Short positions they've been in for really about a year.
We Mainly use Fidelity as a Brokerage and I noticed I could do the Boglehead 3-Fund Portfolio with these accounts with the Vanguard funds recommended of say VTSAX Total Market at 64%, VTIAX International at 16% and VBTLX Bond 20% using my Fidelity Brokerage account, where before I guess I figured I'd have to open an account with Vanguard to do this - so I was originally looking at the Fidelity alternatives to accomplish the same of FSKAX Total Market, FTIHX International and FXNAX Bonds.

Seems like there were no different expenses to get the Vanguard Funds through Fidelity (unless I'm misunderstanding something!!!) ...... so I'm trying to understand if I should do the Vanguard funds, or the Fidelity Funds through Fidelity?

I have cold feet doing this move in general as I feel like the market may be overvalued and would hate these Inherited accounts to plummet due to my decision to enter the market.. but I also feel like I've got 250K that mostly wasn't even my money that could be making money for us and should be similarly invested like I have with other Retirement investing we've been doing for ages that is probably of a similar makeup.. so how is this any different...
sport
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by sport »

I believe Fidelity will charge for purchases of Vanguard funds. This can be avoided by using ETFs for the Vanguard funds.
Topic Author
lgb
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by lgb »

So there are equivalent Vanguard Funds of (VTSAX) and (VTIAX) and (VBTLX) that instead of Mutual Funds are ETF's?

That I could get through Fidelity also and avoid some sort of fee I didn't notice?
Last edited by lgb on Sun May 09, 2021 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
livesoft
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by livesoft »

This wiki link may be helpful: https://bogleheads.org/wiki/Fidelity
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
lazynovice
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by lazynovice »

sport wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:34 pm I believe Fidelity will charge for purchases of Vanguard funds. This can be avoided by using ETFs for the Vanguard funds.
This is correct. You can buy VTI, VXUS and BND for free at Fidelity.
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
Topic Author
lgb
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by lgb »

Am I correct in thinking that the main difference between the Mutual Fund and the ETF is that the ETF doesn't have you wait until the end of the day and use the end of day price as to when you purchased? I guess possibly the ETF versions aren't identical to the holdings of the Mutual Fund holdings or are they?

Sorry - bit new to actually picking stocks and using the system to do it etc...
dukeblue219
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by dukeblue219 »

Your options are:

1) buy the ETF versions of Vanguard funds for free (e.g. VT or VTI)

2) buy the Fidelity funds, which are dirt cheap (FSKAX) or even zero ER (FZROX)

3) buy the Vanguard funds for *I think* $50 per purchase. This actually isn't a huge percentage if you only need to do it once a year or less and have several tens of thousands to invest.

No good reason to do 3 unless you're looking at a VG fund that doesn't exist elsewhere, like Wellesley or something.
dbr
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by dbr »

lgb wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:42 pm Am I correct in thinking that the main difference between the Mutual Fund and the ETF is that the ETF doesn't have you wait until the end of the day and use the end of day price as to when you purchased? I guess possibly the ETF versions aren't identical to the holdings of the Mutual Fund holdings or are they?

Sorry - bit new to actually picking stocks and using the system to do it etc...
This Wiki article has a good explanation of the comparison.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/ETFs_vs_mutual_funds
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22twain
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by 22twain »

lgb wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:38 pm So there are equivalent Vanguard Funds of (VTSAX) and (VTIAX) and (VBTLX) that instead of Mutual Funds are ETF's?
Total Stock Market: mutual fund is VTSAX, ETF is VTI.
Total International Stock: mutual fund is VTIAX, ETF is VXUS.
Total Bond Market: mutual fund is VBTLX, ETF is BND.

The share prices are different for mutual fund versus ETF, but that doesn't matter. The dollar value reflects the amount of "stuff" in a share. It's sort of like Coke coming in 2-liter bottles versus 12-ounce cans, at different prices.
It's "Roth", not "ROTH". Senator William Roth was a person, not an acronym.
tibbitts
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by tibbitts »

lgb wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:42 pm Sorry - bit new to actually picking stocks and using the system to do it etc...
Almost nobody here picks stocks or uses a "system" to do it. For the type of investing most Bogleheads do, there are minimal or in some cases no practical differences between ETF and mutual fund share classes. Maybe you mean selecting ETFs or mutual funds and... maybe buying them online?
Tattarrattat
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by Tattarrattat »

The Fidelity options are equal to Vanguard's for the purposes of long term investing and have even lower expense ratios. If you're at Fidelity, use Fidelity's funds. No reason not to. I have accounts at both and use both.
Topic Author
lgb
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by lgb »

tibbitts wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:50 pm
lgb wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:42 pm Sorry - bit new to actually picking stocks and using the system to do it etc...
Almost nobody here picks stocks or uses a "system" to do it. For the type of investing most Bogleheads do, there are minimal or in some cases no practical differences between ETF and mutual fund share classes. Maybe you mean selecting ETFs or mutual funds and... maybe buying them online?
Sorry - wrong choice of words. Not picking stocks, I only own Mutual Funds basically - and whatever the current Short Term stuff these inherited accounts are in... I did mean as far as the system, I've never done anything but pick an initial set of Mutual Funds and keep adding to it, only once have I kind of reorganized the percentages allocated to the existing Mutual Funds and diversified into some additional Mutual Funds and continued adding. None of that using any sort of Online system, done 10 to 20 years ago... so using Fidelity to move these Inherited accounts and whatever they are invested in now, to 'something other Mutual Fund or ETF' - is new to me and the 'system' I'm referring to. :sharebeer
sport
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by sport »

The main difference between funds and ETFs is the mechanics of buying and selling. With a fund, you buy from the fund company and sell to the fund company with prices set at the end of the business day. With ETFs, you buy from other investors and sell to other investors using the mechanisms of buying and selling stocks. These trade when the market is open and may trade at a small discount or premium to the net asset value (NAV). You can place market orders, limit orders, etc. It is a little more complex than funds, but more flexible. ETFs are also easily transferrable to another brokerage if you decide to take your business elsewhere. Some people prefer funds, and others prefer ETFs.
rgs92
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by rgs92 »

Here is all you need:
1. FXNAX = Fidelity US Bond Market Index Fund (ER=.025 %).
2. FZROX =Fidelity Zero Total US Stock Market Index Fund (ER = 0).
3. FZILX = Fidelity Zero International Stock Market Index Fund (ER=0).
Just pick an asset allocation and you are done. there is no need to go the ETF route. There is no system, unless you want to rebalance each year by moving money from one fund to another to maintain your desired allocation.
Maybe try 40% in (1.), 50% in (2.), and 10% in (3.).
You can't really do better than this to follow Boglehead principles.
lazyinvestor30
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by lazyinvestor30 »

rgs92 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 6:40 pm Here is all you need:
1. FXNAX = Fidelity US Bond Market Index Fund (ER=.025 %).
2. FZROX =Fidelity Zero Total US Stock Market Index Fund (ER = 0).
3. FZILX = Fidelity Zero International Stock Market Index Fund (ER=0).
Just pick an asset allocation and you are done. there is no need to go the ETF route. There is no system, unless you want to rebalance each year by moving money from one fund to another to maintain your desired allocation.
Maybe try 40% in (1.), 50% in (2.), and 10% in (3.).
You can't really do better than this to follow Boglehead principles.
Only use 2 and 3 in a tax deferred account. If taxable you will loose the ability to port in the futures

https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/i ... ndex-funds

See above for fidelity equivalent funds to vanguard
Topic Author
lgb
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by lgb »

lazyinvestor30 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 7:21 pm
rgs92 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 6:40 pm Here is all you need:
1. FXNAX = Fidelity US Bond Market Index Fund (ER=.025 %).
2. FZROX =Fidelity Zero Total US Stock Market Index Fund (ER = 0).
3. FZILX = Fidelity Zero International Stock Market Index Fund (ER=0).
Just pick an asset allocation and you are done. there is no need to go the ETF route. There is no system, unless you want to rebalance each year by moving money from one fund to another to maintain your desired allocation.
Maybe try 40% in (1.), 50% in (2.), and 10% in (3.).
You can't really do better than this to follow Boglehead principles.
Only use 2 and 3 in a tax deferred account. If taxable you will loose the ability to port in the futures

https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/i ... ndex-funds

See above for fidelity equivalent funds to vanguard
Excellent! - That is what I thought I had read about the Fidelity Zero funds. That link you provided for the comparison was excellent also! I realized after I posted this, that I guess the 3-Fund approach mainly focuses on Indexes of the Total Market, Indexes of International and Indexes of Bonds - if I wasn't entirely sold on the Index idea, would there be an semi-equivalent broad exposure like this, but using Mutual Funds? I guess I do buy into the idea not mentioned above about the differences between an ETF and Mutual Funds is that some Mutual Fund might not just track an Index, but instead is being a bit more actively managed to attempt to outdo the Index (market). Maybe that is counter to the Boglehead approach or unnecessary to consider, but it made me wonder what might be a Fidelity and Vanguard equivalent of the 3-Fund approach using Mutual Funds that aren't entirely just following an entire Index but are a bit more actively managed?
lazyinvestor30
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by lazyinvestor30 »

lgb wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 9:52 pm
lazyinvestor30 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 7:21 pm
rgs92 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 6:40 pm Here is all you need:
1. FXNAX = Fidelity US Bond Market Index Fund (ER=.025 %).
2. FZROX =Fidelity Zero Total US Stock Market Index Fund (ER = 0).
3. FZILX = Fidelity Zero International Stock Market Index Fund (ER=0).
Just pick an asset allocation and you are done. there is no need to go the ETF route. There is no system, unless you want to rebalance each year by moving money from one fund to another to maintain your desired allocation.
Maybe try 40% in (1.), 50% in (2.), and 10% in (3.).
You can't really do better than this to follow Boglehead principles.
Only use 2 and 3 in a tax deferred account. If taxable you will loose the ability to port in the futures

https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/i ... ndex-funds

See above for fidelity equivalent funds to vanguard
Excellent! - That is what I thought I had read about the Fidelity Zero funds. That link you provided for the comparison was excellent also! I realized after I posted this, that I guess the 3-Fund approach mainly focuses on Indexes of the Total Market, Indexes of International and Indexes of Bonds - if I wasn't entirely sold on the Index idea, would there be an semi-equivalent broad exposure like this, but using Mutual Funds? I guess I do buy into the idea not mentioned above about the differences between an ETF and Mutual Funds is that some Mutual Fund might not just track an Index, but instead is being a bit more actively managed to attempt to outdo the Index (market). Maybe that is counter to the Boglehead approach or unnecessary to consider, but it made me wonder what might be a Fidelity and Vanguard equivalent of the 3-Fund approach using Mutual Funds that aren't entirely just following an entire Index but are a bit more actively managed?
I think maybe you are getting confused here. Mutual Funds and ETFs are just different vehicles to invest in a stock market. Both ETFs and MF can be actively managed.

But to answer your question, why are you looking for an actively managed version of a 3 fund portfolio? What is your reason for seeking that, if you have low cost index tracked funds which can do the same?
Topic Author
lgb
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by lgb »

lazyinvestor30 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:21 pm
lgb wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 9:52 pm
lazyinvestor30 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 7:21 pm
rgs92 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 6:40 pm Here is all you need:
1. FXNAX = Fidelity US Bond Market Index Fund (ER=.025 %).
2. FZROX =Fidelity Zero Total US Stock Market Index Fund (ER = 0).
3. FZILX = Fidelity Zero International Stock Market Index Fund (ER=0).
Just pick an asset allocation and you are done. there is no need to go the ETF route. There is no system, unless you want to rebalance each year by moving money from one fund to another to maintain your desired allocation.
Maybe try 40% in (1.), 50% in (2.), and 10% in (3.).
You can't really do better than this to follow Boglehead principles.
Only use 2 and 3 in a tax deferred account. If taxable you will loose the ability to port in the futures

https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/i ... ndex-funds

See above for fidelity equivalent funds to vanguard
Excellent! - That is what I thought I had read about the Fidelity Zero funds. That link you provided for the comparison was excellent also! I realized after I posted this, that I guess the 3-Fund approach mainly focuses on Indexes of the Total Market, Indexes of International and Indexes of Bonds - if I wasn't entirely sold on the Index idea, would there be an semi-equivalent broad exposure like this, but using Mutual Funds? I guess I do buy into the idea not mentioned above about the differences between an ETF and Mutual Funds is that some Mutual Fund might not just track an Index, but instead is being a bit more actively managed to attempt to outdo the Index (market). Maybe that is counter to the Boglehead approach or unnecessary to consider, but it made me wonder what might be a Fidelity and Vanguard equivalent of the 3-Fund approach using Mutual Funds that aren't entirely just following an entire Index but are a bit more actively managed?
I think maybe you are getting confused here. Mutual Funds and ETFs are just different vehicles to invest in a stock market. Both ETFs and MF can be actively managed.

But to answer your question, why are you looking for an actively managed version of a 3 fund portfolio? What is your reason for seeking that, if you have low cost index tracked funds which can do the same?
Really only because in my other Retirement Investments I have only invested in Mutual Funds that aren't really Indexes, but they have an Expense Ratio that is more than what the Index funds would charge and I have seen over at least a 20 year period that those have seemed to outperform the benchmarks (which i assume is similar to the Index) ....so I didn't want to miss out on that if there is an option to consider. I'm not ruling out changing my thought on this and just sticking with the Indexes for this chunk of what I'll call 'free money' I've inherited, but I'm struggling with what to invest it in, when to invest it (concerned probably emotionally about mismanaging) and just making a mistake with it, but I'm at the point where I'm wanting to pull the trigger to proceed in one direction or another. Just settling on the details of what exactly! :happy
okwriter
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by okwriter »

lgb wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:34 pm Really only because in my other Retirement Investments I have only invested in Mutual Funds that aren't really Indexes, but they have an Expense Ratio that is more than what the Index funds would charge and I have seen over at least a 20 year period that those have seemed to outperform the benchmarks (which i assume is similar to the Index) ....so I didn't want to miss out on that if there is an option to consider. I'm not ruling out changing my thought on this and just sticking with the Indexes for this chunk of what I'll call 'free money' I've inherited, but I'm struggling with what to invest it in, when to invest it (concerned probably emotionally about mismanaging) and just making a mistake with it, but I'm at the point where I'm wanting to pull the trigger to proceed in one direction or another. Just settling on the details of what exactly! :happy
You might be interested in this video chronicling the history of actively managed funds, and how poorly they end up for investors in the long-term: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6HrepdLSu4
RevFran
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by RevFran »

Does fidelity charge those fee to buy vanguard funds if the account in question is a workplace sponsored retirement account? My workplace just removed vanguard abs a brokerage and switched us all to fidelity. I remained in vtsax without thinking about the fee question!
dbr
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by dbr »

RevFran wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:55 am Does fidelity charge those fee to buy vanguard funds if the account in question is a workplace sponsored retirement account? My workplace just removed vanguard abs a brokerage and switched us all to fidelity. I remained in vtsax without thinking about the fee question!
A company retirement plan at a broker is an entirely different thing than a retail account. Almost certainly there are no commissions to buy anything listed as available to the plan. That changes sometimes in the case of using a directed brokerage option inside a plan, but that is not what you are asking about. Naturally you want to ask the plan manager to be sure.
Topic Author
lgb
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Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by lgb »

okwriter wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:42 am
lgb wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:34 pm Really only because in my other Retirement Investments I have only invested in Mutual Funds that aren't really Indexes, but they have an Expense Ratio that is more than what the Index funds would charge and I have seen over at least a 20 year period that those have seemed to outperform the benchmarks (which i assume is similar to the Index) ....so I didn't want to miss out on that if there is an option to consider. I'm not ruling out changing my thought on this and just sticking with the Indexes for this chunk of what I'll call 'free money' I've inherited, but I'm struggling with what to invest it in, when to invest it (concerned probably emotionally about mismanaging) and just making a mistake with it, but I'm at the point where I'm wanting to pull the trigger to proceed in one direction or another. Just settling on the details of what exactly! :happy
You might be interested in this video chronicling the history of actively managed funds, and how poorly they end up for investors in the long-term: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6HrepdLSu4
Thanks for that video, was a quick 18 minutes and the last 4 minutes or so were the most compelling. I feel like it is much more a mathematical/probability thing now vs. the more actively managed fund really outperforming the index fund.

I think I'll go with:

For the Inherited Roth's, Inherited IRA's
64% FZROX 'Zero' Total Market Index Fund
16% FZILX 'Zero' International Index Fund
20% FXNAX US Bond Index Fund

For the Joint Taxable account
64% FSKAX Total Market Index Fund
16% FTIHX Total International Index Fund
20% FXNAX US Bond Index Fund
Keeping the Zero Funds out of the Taxable account just so no issue if for whatever reason at some point later I didn't want to keep things within Fidelity

Is there something that points to how the 3-Fund portfolio might have done over long period of time 7-15 years or so (granted I guess that can't entirely be done with the Zero Funds, since those are newer, but if using the above percentages of FSKAX, FTIHX, FXNAX?... just to understand whether it would have had a long track record of some gains?
okwriter
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:00 pm

Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by okwriter »

lgb wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:07 am
okwriter wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:42 am
lgb wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:34 pm Really only because in my other Retirement Investments I have only invested in Mutual Funds that aren't really Indexes, but they have an Expense Ratio that is more than what the Index funds would charge and I have seen over at least a 20 year period that those have seemed to outperform the benchmarks (which i assume is similar to the Index) ....so I didn't want to miss out on that if there is an option to consider. I'm not ruling out changing my thought on this and just sticking with the Indexes for this chunk of what I'll call 'free money' I've inherited, but I'm struggling with what to invest it in, when to invest it (concerned probably emotionally about mismanaging) and just making a mistake with it, but I'm at the point where I'm wanting to pull the trigger to proceed in one direction or another. Just settling on the details of what exactly! :happy
You might be interested in this video chronicling the history of actively managed funds, and how poorly they end up for investors in the long-term: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6HrepdLSu4
Thanks for that video, was a quick 18 minutes and the last 4 minutes or so were the most compelling. I feel like it is much more a mathematical/probability thing now vs. the more actively managed fund really outperforming the index fund.

I think I'll go with:

For the Inherited Roth's, Inherited IRA's
64% FZROX 'Zero' Total Market Index Fund
16% FZILX 'Zero' International Index Fund
20% FXNAX US Bond Index Fund

For the Joint Taxable account
64% FSKAX Total Market Index Fund
16% FTIHX Total International Index Fund
20% FXNAX US Bond Index Fund
Keeping the Zero Funds out of the Taxable account just so no issue if for whatever reason at some point later I didn't want to keep things within Fidelity

Is there something that points to how the 3-Fund portfolio might have done over long period of time 7-15 years or so (granted I guess that can't entirely be done with the Zero Funds, since those are newer, but if using the above percentages of FSKAX, FTIHX, FXNAX?... just to understand whether it would have had a long track record of some gains?
Glad the Ben Felix video helped!

You can see performance from 1987 to 2021 at this link: https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... tion3_1=20
Topic Author
lgb
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:46 am

Re: Buying Vanguard Funds through Fidelity?

Post by lgb »

okwriter wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:12 am
lgb wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:07 am
okwriter wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:42 am
lgb wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:34 pm Really only because in my other Retirement Investments I have only invested in Mutual Funds that aren't really Indexes, but they have an Expense Ratio that is more than what the Index funds would charge and I have seen over at least a 20 year period that those have seemed to outperform the benchmarks (which i assume is similar to the Index) ....so I didn't want to miss out on that if there is an option to consider. I'm not ruling out changing my thought on this and just sticking with the Indexes for this chunk of what I'll call 'free money' I've inherited, but I'm struggling with what to invest it in, when to invest it (concerned probably emotionally about mismanaging) and just making a mistake with it, but I'm at the point where I'm wanting to pull the trigger to proceed in one direction or another. Just settling on the details of what exactly! :happy
You might be interested in this video chronicling the history of actively managed funds, and how poorly they end up for investors in the long-term: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6HrepdLSu4
Thanks for that video, was a quick 18 minutes and the last 4 minutes or so were the most compelling. I feel like it is much more a mathematical/probability thing now vs. the more actively managed fund really outperforming the index fund.

I think I'll go with:

For the Inherited Roth's, Inherited IRA's
64% FZROX 'Zero' Total Market Index Fund
16% FZILX 'Zero' International Index Fund
20% FXNAX US Bond Index Fund

For the Joint Taxable account
64% FSKAX Total Market Index Fund
16% FTIHX Total International Index Fund
20% FXNAX US Bond Index Fund
Keeping the Zero Funds out of the Taxable account just so no issue if for whatever reason at some point later I didn't want to keep things within Fidelity

Is there something that points to how the 3-Fund portfolio might have done over long period of time 7-15 years or so (granted I guess that can't entirely be done with the Zero Funds, since those are newer, but if using the above percentages of FSKAX, FTIHX, FXNAX?... just to understand whether it would have had a long track record of some gains?
Glad the Ben Felix video helped!

You can see performance from 1987 to 2021 at this link: https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... tion3_1=20
Found that site and used the Fidelity Funds, but your idea was better using the Asset Classes since it showed a much more longer and obvious 'win for the approach'..haha... and then I determined that site (which is excellent) allowed you to enter a Benchmark Ticker against your Asset Classes which I used the Fidelity Funds individually (of FSKAX, FTIHX, FXNAX) with your 3 Asset Allocations and it somehow knew to pick the correct comparison out of the 3 Asset Classes you used each time I did this. Only the FXNAX Bond and your Bond Asset Allocation were not entirely comparable, Fidelity not as high CAGR% over time - but still very interesting tool to use (and I'm probably using it incorrectly! haha..)
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