Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

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A440
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Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by A440 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:28 am

I have been lobbying for a better 403b(7) for teachers in our district here in NJ. Too many get sold on high fee variable annuities from AXA/Equitable, VALIC, and Voya. For those that do some due diligence, we have American Funds and Vanguard. The prior, of course, comes with a load. In order to purchase a Vanguard fund, we must go through a vendor, as Vanguard will not allow loans from 403b accounts. Because our plan document provides for this, Vanguard will not "sign off" on the agreement. Therefore, we need to purchase Vanguard Funds through Lincoln Investments or MetLife.

Until recently, we would pay a "wrap fee" to Lincoln of 90 basis points or 50 basis points to MetLife for a Vanguard product.

With a little help from NJEA, Lincoln Investments has created a "Participant Directed Platform" for us DIYers that comes without the wrap fee. The only fees are a $35 annual custodial fee paid to Lincoln, and $3/month to off-set the TPA fee charged by OMNI, normally absorbed by the vendor. This list of funds offered under this new platform only includes Vanguard Funds. The tickers are the actual tickers, no insurance wrap. The only other cost is the fund's Expense Ratio. The trade-off for this platform is the vendor offers no advice to the participant.

Does the group have any words of wisdom regarding this new offering? Any particular questions I should be asking the vendor? We have several members who used to invest our 403b(7) with Vanguard directly before the rules (hold harmless/information sharing agreement) changes many years ago. This plan seems to be as close as we can get to the good old days with Vanguard.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and words of wisdom.

sawhorse
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by sawhorse » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:28 am

Hmm that's a tough one. For someone contributing the maximum $18k, the $71 flat fee is like 0.4% tacked onto the expense ratio. As the balance grows, the flat fee will represent a smaller amount percentage wise.

But for people with low balances, the flat fee can be pretty bad. A $5k balance means that the $71 fee is 1.42%.

Is it possible to get non-Vanguard index funds with the regular vendors? A former employer had VALIC, and there were a couple index fund options among the otherwise bad choices.

Do you have TIAA-CREF as an option?

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ruralavalon
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by ruralavalon » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:19 pm

Make sure that there are no additional fees. Flat fees of $71 per year should not deter you from using the "participant directed platform".

What Vanguard share class are you able to get on that platform?

A flat fee is much better in the long run than a fee based on a percentage of your assets. And you should be investing for the long run. In my opinion you should use the "participant directed platform".
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

A440
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by A440 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:55 pm

I was told that Admiral shares will be available in the near future, even if the account is less than $10,000.

I'm going to "test drive" the plan while it is in the BETA phase of implementation. If everything pans out as promised, I'll move my other 403b account in the district to this plan.

sawhorse
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by sawhorse » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:03 pm

ruralavalon wrote:Make sure that there are no additional fees. Flat fees of $71 per year should not deter you from using the "participant directed platform".

What Vanguard share class are you able to get on that platform?

A flat fee is much better in the long run than a fee based on a percentage of your assets. And you should be investing for the long run. In my opinion you should use the "participant directed platform".

Will the flat fee discourage other employees from participating? If too few employees participate, the program could be dropped before many people's accounts get big enough to make the fee worthwhile.

Most people do not earn enough to contribute the maximum. It may be a stretch to contribute even $5000 a year. That's a 1.4% fee on $5k. The 0.5% fee from MetLife is a better deal for any balances below $14200.

Did you verify that the loads are charged for American Funds? Many employer plans waive the normal loads.

A440
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by A440 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:57 pm

UPDATE:
So I completed a one year "test-drive" and the only fees (other than the Vanguard ER) was a $35 annual custodial fee. I decided to move my other employer 403(b)7 to this account, and will update again if any new fees get posted.

Coolstavi
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by Coolstavi » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:21 pm

A440 wrote:UPDATE:
So I completed a one year "test-drive" and the only fees (other than the Vanguard ER) was a $35 annual custodial fee. I decided to move my other employer 403(b)7 to this account, and will update again if any new fees get posted.


How did you get this set up? Did you contact Lincoln Investments directly or do you have to go through someone? I'd prefer not to go through the guy in my district. I can do the 457b option through them.

A440
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by A440 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:04 pm

I dealt with a Regional VP at our local Lincoln Investment office instead of going through the rep that comes to our school.
Very pleased with the program and the service I have received from the VP and from Lincoln Investments when completing my direct exchange from another vendor in our district.

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:21 am

A440, can you supply an internet link with information about Lincoln Investments' "Participant Directed Platform"? I can't find anything. Do you know of any non-NJ districts able to use the plan? The plan sure looks like Lincoln’s “Retirement Solutions Premier” plan, with the 0.90% Management/Wrap fee removed. The Custodial fee is $35 is the same in both plans. https://www.403bcompare.com/Employee/Pr ... x?pid=4576

A440
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by A440 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:52 am

Sorry, I don't have a link. It isn't advertised too much, because I don't believe Lincoln makes much (if anything) from the plan. Perhaps they believe you will come to them to manage your million plus portfolio when you retire from teaching? :happy
The plan is very similar to Retirement Solutions Premier with the 90 basis points, except that you may only choose from a list (albeit a long one) of Vanguard funds.

Coolstavi
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by Coolstavi » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:18 pm

I successfully enrolled in the 457b plan that is offered. There is also a 403b option that is the same. My first couple of paychecks have been successfully placed into this account.

For others interested, you will need to call Lincoln Investments directly and they will email you a PDF with the application. I filled it out and faxed it in. Our district rep did not know it existed. Make sure it is the 'Retirement Solutions Participant-Directed'. It was set-up pretty quickly. You will need to call them to get your online log-in set up. There was no postal mail sent to me confirming the account was created. Again, if you have a rep, they will be useless in the process.

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:43 pm

Coolstavi, that's great to hear! What state are you in--NJ like A440? No union involvement? Were the funds the same as those of Lincoln's Retirement Solutions Premier? All Vanguard Investor class but with no 0.90% Mgt/Wrap fee? https://www.403bcompare.com/Employee/Su ... x?pid=4576

Coolstavi
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by Coolstavi » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:24 pm

krow36 wrote:Coolstavi, that's great to hear! What state are you in--NJ like A440? No union involvement? Were the funds the same as those of Lincoln's Retirement Solutions Premier? All Vanguard Investor class but with no 0.90% Mgt/Wrap fee? https://www.403bcompare.com/Employee/Su ... x?pid=4576


I'm in Illinois. Shouldn't be any fees since I am managing the account myself. I think there is just the custodial fee plus expense ratios with the funds like OP mentioned. I will watch and report back if there is something else. There is some part where you sign acknowledging that you are solely responsible for your investments and Lincoln won't offer any advice. I never really looked for what else was available as I was set on Vanguard funds. They are all admiral funds as well (VTSAX for example).

BTW Krow, I know you were the one who introduced me to the Security Benefit Direct Invest plan. It took a while (they kept putting my paycheck into the old SFR account, transferring from the SFR to the Direct Invest, etc..) but it is up and running smoothly. I think I am now on expert on TPAs and payroll at this point since I had to handle everything myself. Thanks again for your bringing this to my attention.

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:45 pm

Is there a list of funds you chose from that you can link to, or post here? If Admiral class are available, then the list is different from that in Lincoln's 403bcompare.com submission for their Ret. Solutions Premier plan. Does Lincoln have anything on the internet about the Participant Directed platform?

Coolstavi
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by Coolstavi » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:05 pm

I can't find anything on the internet when I do a search. Talked to a guy on the phone about my account and he had never seen someone with it before. It works and receives money though. I just went with a simple three fund portfolio and picked the Admiral Shares version on my application. I'd be willing to forward you the email I got from Lincoln with the application if you wanted to review it.

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:32 pm

I can't find anything on the internet when I do a search. Talked to a guy on the phone about my account and he had never seen someone with it before. It works and receives money though. I just went with a simple three fund portfolio and picked the Admiral Shares version on my application. I'd be willing to forward you the email I got from Lincoln with the application if you wanted to review it.

Yes, all a google search turns up is the BH posts! It would be great to be able to suggest this option for those with only expensive 403b choices. However Lincoln seems to want to keep the use of the platform to a minimum!? It reminds me of Security Benefit's Direct Invest not being included in their 403bcompare offerings. They're willing to help those in the know with a low-cost option, but don't want that option interfering with their usual very expensive products sold to the innocents. At a minimum, I wish 403bcompare would crack down on Security Benefit and Lincoln and require them to include their low-cost options.

Did you get the PDF you mentioned from the internet? Did the application have any info on the platform? Yes I'd like to look at the email they sent you.

Congratulations on moving from the SB SFR (Saving For Retirement) plan to the SB Direct Invest plan. ER's going from 0.50% to 0.05%! I reread that thread--you've made a lot of progress! Spread the word!
Last edited by krow36 on Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ValleyBreeze
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by ValleyBreeze » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:29 am

Coolstavi wrote:I successfully enrolled in the 457b plan that is offered. There is also a 403b option that is the same. My first couple of paychecks have been successfully placed into this account.

For others interested, you will need to call Lincoln Investments directly and they will email you a PDF with the application. I filled it out and faxed it in. Our district rep did not know it existed. Make sure it is the 'Retirement Solutions Participant-Directed'. It was set-up pretty quickly. You will need to call them to get your online log-in set up. There was no postal mail sent to me confirming the account was created. Again, if you have a rep, they will be useless in the process.


This is very helpful. I called Lincoln and told me what I wanted and they sent me a PDF application - but I suspect it might be the wrong one. The name is RS1EP[1].pdf and there is no mention of participant-directed in the application. It starts with Advisor and Branch as the first red flag. Would love to get your PDF app but I just joined and it wouldn't let me message you.

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:37 pm

The PDF you need is RSOL 1PD.pdf .

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:27 pm

A440 wrote:Sorry, I don't have a link. It isn't advertised too much, because I don't believe Lincoln makes much (if anything) from the plan. Perhaps they believe you will come to them to manage your million plus portfolio when you retire from teaching? :happy
The plan is very similar to Retirement Solutions Premier with the 90 basis points, except that you may only choose from a list (albeit a long one) of Vanguard funds.

A440, you mention a long list of Vanguard funds. The application form mentions the funds’ “prospectus are available to all times at http://www.lincolninvestment.com/prospectus”. Can you provide us with the list? Is it the same list as the one for Retirement Solutions Premier in 403bcompare.com?
Coolstavi wrote:I can't find anything on the internet when I do a search. Talked to a guy on the phone about my account and he had never seen someone with it before. It works and receives money though. I just went with a simple three fund portfolio and picked the Admiral Shares version on my application. I'd be willing to forward you the email I got from Lincoln with the application if you wanted to review it.

Coolstavi, did you just pick your Admiral funds from the Lincoln website's opening page --->Prospectuses? Maybe there's been some changes since A440 signed up?

Coolstavi
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by Coolstavi » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:19 pm

Coolstavi, did you just pick your Admiral funds from the Lincoln website's opening page --->Prospectuses? Maybe there's been some changes since A440 signed up?


I just went to the prospectus for Vanguard on the Lincoln site and picked the standard 3 portfolio admiral shares. They allowed me to go with those. I don't know if the the less popular ones that some people play around with would be available. For Security Benefit's Direct Invest you only have a few Vanguard options.

A440
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by A440 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:29 pm

Update on Fees:
According to my December '16 statement from Lincoln:

"RetirementSOLUTIONS PREMIER Custodial Fee Elimination
For those investors with retirement accounts, the annual retirement plan custodial fee that ranges from $0 to $35 per account for up to two
accounts (maximum of $70) is being eliminated effective January 1, 2017."

However,

"SOLUTIONS/SOLUTIONS PREMIER Investor Platform Fee
Regardless of the number of retirement or non-retirement accounts held on our SOLUTIONS and/or SOLUTIONS PREMIER platform, an
investor will be assessed an Investor Platform Fee of $15/quarter ($60/year) per social security number or tax identification number. This
fee will cover administrative expenses associated with carrying all of your accounts and will be deducted from just one of your accounts.
The fee change will be effective January 1, 2017."

So, this means an increase of $25 in fees (from $35 to $60 per year). I've reached out to Lincoln's Participant-Direct reps for confirmation. Still cheaper than their 90 basis plan. This information was confirmed by a Lincoln CSR on 1/11/17

UPDATE JULY 2017:
Hmm...so far, I have not seen an increase in any fees. Each quarterly statement so far shows a "platform fee" of $8.75 (so $35 over 4 quarters). I will continue to monitor as the next two quarterly statements become available and update again.
Last edited by A440 on Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:04 pm

It’s interesting that they say the new fee applies to their Solutions and Solutions Premier Platforms, but there’s no mention of the Solutions Participant-Directed Platform. That’s consistent with their policy of not publicizing it isn’t it? Since they sent it to you I guess we’ll assume that it applies to the Solutions Participant-Directed platform also, until you tell us different.

I agree that a flat annual fee is usually better than a percent of the account fee, especially as the account balance gets larger.
balance————$60 fee percent of balance
10k——————0.6%
20k——————0.3%
50k——————0.12%
100k—————-0.06%
With both 403b and 457, traditional and Roth accounts available, there’s no penalty for having 2 or more accounts. The previous fee had 2 breakpoints—$20 fee under 2K, $35 between 2k and 250k, no fee over 250k, which was great, but guess that’s gone. Oh well, it still looks like a good self-directed 403b/457/trad./Roth option.

MtDewAddict
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by MtDewAddict » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:37 am

The Lincoln Investments' Participant Directed Platform appears to be a game changer for educators lacking access to any of the superior provider choices. My wife is currently in a Lincoln Inv. high fee "advisor-assisted" plan. I'm wondering if anyone has been successful in transferring their Lincoln standard advisor-assisted account to a participant directed platform? I can't imagine an advisor would be pleased with this request.
Last edited by MtDewAddict on Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:11 pm

I'm wondering if anyone has been successful in transferring their Lincoln standard advisor-assisted account to a participant directed platform? I can't imagine an advisor would be pleased with this request.


I guess the first thing to do is to stop contributions. Is there a district form for that? Or a TPA form? Maybe it can be done over the internet? After that's done, signing up for the DIY program is the next step. Has she got this far? If so did she get the application form from Lincoln, or from someone who got it from Lincoln?

After the account is set up is the time to contact a Lincoln regional office for info on how to move the old account's assets. The advisor shouldn't be involved in any of those steps except possibly stopping contributions to the old plan. The rest of it is none of his business---it will all be done on the internet. The application says as much.

MtDewAddict
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by MtDewAddict » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:02 pm

I guess the first thing to do is to stop contributions. Is there a district form for that? Or a TPA form?


Yes, the Salary Reduction Agreement is on TSA Consulting Group site.

After that's done, signing up for the DIY program is the next step. Has she got this far? If so did she get the application form from Lincoln, or from someone who got it from Lincoln?


We have not yet contacted anyone from Lincoln about this. We will request the DIY form.


Thanks for the advice, krow36, greatly appreciated!!

daveydoo
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by daveydoo » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:21 pm

sawhorse wrote:
But for people with low balances, the flat fee can be pretty bad. A $5k balance means that the $71 fee is 1.42%.



My organization did something similar a while back and the investment committee waived the annual fee for balances < $5K, in exchange for the higher-balance participants paying slightly more. I agreed with this decision. It was transparent and was in the interests of maximizing plan participation -- which will benefit the employees (not disincented from participating, right out of the gate) and the employer (more eventual leverage with the custodian). There was of course some discussion about balances that oscillated around the $5K mark with market swings, etc., so "ever crossed the $5K threshold" became the true metric.

MtDewAddict
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by MtDewAddict » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:11 am

My wife’s Pennsylvania school district has both Lincoln Investment Planning and Security Benefit Group as 403b options. In our situation, with a 160K balance, the yearly fee would be $60 for Lincoln and $0 for SB. Despite the fee, I preferred the additional Vanguard Admiral fund choices in Lincoln’s plan.

However my attempt to open a Lincoln Participant Directed Platform account was unsuccessful. A contact at Lincoln informed me the DIY program has extremely limited availability (New Jersey, Chicago SD, Philadelphia SD and possibly one on the west coast). So it’s off to Security Benefit we go.

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:24 pm

MtDewAddict wrote:My wife’s Pennsylvania school district has both Lincoln Investment Planning and Security Benefit Group as 403b options. In our situation, with a 160K balance, the yearly fee would be $60 for Lincoln and $0 for SB. Despite the fee, I preferred the additional Vanguard Admiral fund choices in Lincoln’s plan.

However my attempt to open a Lincoln Participant Directed Platform account was unsuccessful. A contact at Lincoln informed me the DIY program has extremely limited availability (New Jersey, Chicago SD, Philadelphia SD and possibly one on the west coast). So it’s off to Security Benefit we go.
Thanks for the information from the Lincoln office, which raises some interesting questions. Who decides and on what basis whether to make the DIY platform available? It’s obvious they want to control the spread of its use. I wonder if A440’s getting the NJ union involved was critical in the plan’s availability for the whole state? Hopefully other posters will test the waters and the plan’s use will spread. I’ll try to keep a list of those who are successful in signing up. It would be helpful if we knew the school districts within the state.
POSTERS SIGNED UP WITH THIS 403B/457 PLAN:
A440, since Oct 2015, NJ
coolstavi, since Nov? 2016, IL
ValleyBreeze, since Dec 2016, unknown state
GrandMasterBlaster, available, NY
Jebjebitz, since Apr 2017, NJ
thedeadlybishop, Jul 2017, Chicago, IL
mrsff, Sep 2017, NY
Last edited by krow36 on Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:11 am, edited 4 times in total.

njfastlife
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by njfastlife » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:50 pm

hey all - very helpful thread.

my fiancee is in NY and i am working to get her 403b in order.

she's currently in Oppenheimer which i am trying to get out of stat.

question(s):

1. is there any harm in completely ceasing contributions to a 403b while we go through the process of moving the money over to Lincoln?

1(a). as an aside, we plan to open a Roth IRA (Vanguard) and contribute the maximum ($5,500) yearly.

2. if we decide NOT to go with Lincoln can we roll the entire 403b into a Vanguard IRA of some sort? is this a bad idea?


thanks all! :D

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:02 pm

Duplicate posts on 2 different threads is not ideal.

Jebjebitz
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by Jebjebitz » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:40 pm

krow36 wrote:Is there a list of funds you chose from that you can link to, or post here? If Admiral class are available, then the list is different from that in Lincoln's 403bcompare.com submission for their Ret. Solutions Premier plan. Does Lincoln have anything on the internet about the Participant Directed platform?
Just got the paperwork to enroll in this plan. Here are the funds available: ( listed in order of conservative to aggressive)
Fund. Share Class
Vanguard Prime Money Market. Investor
Vanguard Short Term Bond Index. Admiral
Vanguard Short Term Federal Admiral
Vanguard Short Term Investment Grade. Admiral
Vanguard Short Term Treasury Admiral
Vanguard Short Term Infl - Prot - Sec - Idx. Admiral
Vanguard Total Bond Market Index. Admiral
Vanguard Ultra Short Term Bond. Admiral
Vanguard GNMA. Admiral
Vanguard Inflation Protected Secs. Admiral
Vanguard Interm Term Investment Grade. Admiral
Vanguard Interm Term Treasury Admiral
Vanguard LifeStrategy Conserve Gr. Admiral
Vanguard LifeStrategy Income. Investor
Vanguard Market Neutral. Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement 2010. Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement Income. Investor
Vanguard Wellesley Income. Admiral
Vanguard Balanced Index Admiral
Vanguard High Yield Corporate Admiral
Vanguard Interim Term Bond Index Admiral
Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Gr Investor
Vanguard STAR Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement 2015 Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement 2020 Investor
Vanguard Total Intl Bond Idx Admiral
Vanguard LifeStrategy Growth Investor
Vanguard Long-Term Bond Index Investor
Vanguard Long Term Investment Grade Admiral
Vanguard Long Term Treasury Admiral
Vanguard Managed Payout Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement 2025 Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement 2030 Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement 2035 Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement 2040 Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement 2045 Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement 2050 Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement 2055 Investor
Vanguard Target Retirement 2060 Investor
Vanguard 500 Index Admiral
Vanguard Capital Value Investor
Vanguard Developed Markets Idx Admiral
Vanguard Diversified Equity Investor
Vanguard Dividend Appreciation Idx Investor
Vanguard Dividend Growth Investor
Vanguard Emerg Mkts Govt Bd Idx Admiral
Vanguard Emerg Mkts Sel Stk Investor
Vanguard Emerging Mkts Stock Idx Admiral
Vanguard Energy Admiral
Vanguard Equity Income Admiral
Vanguard European Stock Index Admiral
Vanguard Explorer Admiral
Vanguard Explorer Value Investor
Vanguard Extended Market Idx Admiral
Vanguard FTSE All World Ex US SmCp Idx Investor
Vanguard FTSE All World Ex US Index Admiral
Vanguard FTSE Social Index Investor
Vanguard Global Equity Investor
Vanguard Global Ex US Rel Est Indx Admiral
Vanguard Global Minimum Volatility Investor
Vanguard Growth & Income Admiral
Vanguard Growth Index Admiral
Vanguard Health Care Admiral
Vanguard High Dividend Yield Index Investor
Vanguard International Explorer Investor
Vanguard International Growth Admiral
Vanguard International Value Investor
Vanguard Large Cap Index Admiral
Vanguard Mid Cap Growth Investor
Vanguard Mid Cap Index Admiral
Vanguard Mid Cap Growth Index Admiral
Vanguard Mid Cap Growth Value Index Admiral
Vanguard Morgan Growth Admiral
Vanguard Pacific Stock Index Admiral
Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining Investor
Vanguard REIT Index Admiral
Vanguard Selected Value Investor
Vanguard Small Cap Growth Index Admiral
Vanguard Small Cap Index Admiral
Vanguard Small Cap Value Index Admiral
Vanguard Strategic Equity Investor
Vanguard Strategic Small Cap Equity Investor
Vanguard Total Intl Stock Index Admiral
Vanguard Total Stock Mkt Index Admiral
Vanguard Total World Stock Index Investor
Vanguard US Growth Admiral
Vanguard US Value Investor
Vanguard Value Index Admiral
Vanguard Windsor II Admiral
Vanguard Windsor Admiral

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:27 pm

Congratulations on getting set up with the DIY Lincoln plan! :D
I suggest you consider using the 3 fund portfolio. It’s simple and as diversified as you can get. https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio

These 3 funds are exactly what you need:
Vanguard Total Stock Mkt Index Admiral
Vanguard Total Bond Market Index. Admiral
Vanguard Total Intl Stock Index Admiral

Do you have an asset allocation in mind?

Jebjebitz
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by Jebjebitz » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:27 am

krow36 wrote:Congratulations on getting set up with the DIY Lincoln plan! :D
I suggest you consider using the 3 fund portfolio. It’s simple and as diversified as you can get. https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio

These 3 funds are exactly what you need:
Vanguard Total Stock Mkt Index Admiral
Vanguard Total Bond Market Index. Admiral
Vanguard Total Intl Stock Index Admiral

Do you have an asset allocation in mind?
I used the Vanguard website and entered my investing objectives and they picked these funds:

48% Vanguard total stock market index fund
32% vanguard total international stock index fund
14% vanguard total bond market index fund
6% vanguard total international bond index fund

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thedeadlybishop
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by thedeadlybishop » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:09 am

First off, a big thanks to this thread.

My wife is starting this fall as a teacher in Illinois. Lincoln and Fidelity are the only reasonable options for her 403b/457b. It took quite a few phone calls and back and forth on email to finally get to someone who knew about the Participant Directed Platform. I eventually spoke to an Investor Services Advisor at their national office that finally had all the answers.

The form I received was called "New Account Form - RS1PD Final.pdf" which has the Vanguard funds available on the platform (Note that only Vanguard funds are available). The person I talked to made it sound like there are some location specific plans, saying the form I got was the one they send to participants in the Chicagoland area.

Hopefully this helps speed the process up for others going down this path.

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:23 pm

thedeadlybishop wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:09 am
The form I received was called "New Account Form - RS1PD Final.pdf" which has the Vanguard funds available on the platform (Note that only Vanguard funds are available). The person I talked to made it sound like there are some location specific plans, saying the form I got was the one they send to participants in the Chicagoland area.
thedeadlybishop, can you tell us the annual custodial fee you are being charged? The “RSOL1PD.pdf” I’ve seen states the fee is $35. What is the annual custodial fee on your "New Account Form - RS1PD Final.pdf”?

A440 confirmed with Lincoln in Jan 2017 the the annual custodial fee was being raised to $60 from $35. However in a July 2017 Update, A440 reported he had not been charged the higher fee (paid quarterly).

It’s clear that Lincoln Investment wants to restrict and control the use of their Participant Directed Platform. The only information we have on it is from the application form (only available from a few regional offices) which has changed, and the plan may be region specific? Those of you who have successfully enrolled, please continue to post information that might be useful to those allowed to use it.

mrsff
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Location: NY

Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by mrsff » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:18 am

I'm so happy that I found this thread. I'm a public school teacher in New York, and have some not-so-great options for 403b providers at my school. Lincoln Investments was the only non-insurance company option.

I emailed inquiries@lincolninvestment.com requesting the form for the Participant Directed Platform, and they asked for my school district to put me in touch with a financial advisor. Pretty shortly after I responded, I got an email from an advisor from a regional branch offering to help me set up a 403b and suggesting that we schedule a meeting. I repeated my request for the paperwork (the updated form is rs1pd.pdf) for the Participant Directed Platform, and he emailed it to me and said to call if I have any questions.

Reading over the paperwork, it looks like it's now a flat $60 fee (as other people mentioned) on top of the fees of whatever investments you choose. I did not receive a list of investment options, but the form says to go onto the Lincoln prospectuses to choose an option. I think for simplicity's sake I'm going to go with one of the Vanguard Target Retirement Funds, so I don't need to worry about rebalancing each year.

I will keep this thread posted, if I run into any hiccups or have additional information to share.

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:22 am

mrsff, thanks for posting your experience! It's great to know that the form can be arranged by email. The Vanguard Target Retirement fund is a good choice if you want to minimize your investment chores.

krow36
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:21 pm

mrsff, I wonder if you are aware of the 457 plan provided by NY State? It is very low cost and of course can be used in addition to the Lincoln 403b plan. Does your school district make it available? If not, you could ask your HR office to add it. https://www.nysdcp.com/iApp/tcm/nysdcp/about/index.jsp

mrsff
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by mrsff » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:32 am

krow36, yes I'm aware of 457 plan, but it is not currently offered at my district. It's available at my husband's school, and he's going to start contributing to it. It's on my to-do list to talk to HR about it. Thanks!

A440
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Location: NJ

Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by A440 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:53 am

A440 wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:29 pm
Update on Fees:
According to my December '16 statement from Lincoln:

"RetirementSOLUTIONS PREMIER Custodial Fee Elimination
For those investors with retirement accounts, the annual retirement plan custodial fee that ranges from $0 to $35 per account for up to two
accounts (maximum of $70) is being eliminated effective January 1, 2017."

However,

"SOLUTIONS/SOLUTIONS PREMIER Investor Platform Fee
Regardless of the number of retirement or non-retirement accounts held on our SOLUTIONS and/or SOLUTIONS PREMIER platform, an
investor will be assessed an Investor Platform Fee of $15/quarter ($60/year) per social security number or tax identification number. This
fee will cover administrative expenses associated with carrying all of your accounts and will be deducted from just one of your accounts.
The fee change will be effective January 1, 2017."

So, this means an increase of $25 in fees (from $35 to $60 per year). I've reached out to Lincoln's Participant-Direct reps for confirmation. Still cheaper than their 90 basis plan. This information was confirmed by a Lincoln CSR on 1/11/17

UPDATE JULY 2017:
Hmm...so far, I have not seen an increase in any fees. Each quarterly statement so far shows a "platform fee" of $8.75 (so $35 over 4 quarters). I will continue to monitor as the next two quarterly statements become available and update again.
UPDATE DECEMBER 2017:
My account now shows a quarterly $3 Third-Party Admin Fee (to OMNI) in addition to the platform fee of $8.75. Even so, still cheaper than paying 90 basis points, or a 5.75% commission fee to purchase a Load Fund (usually American Funds) to the rep. Plus, the dividend yield of the fund itself, more than covers the fees.
Last edited by A440 on Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

workinfortheweekend!
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Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by workinfortheweekend! » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:59 am

Hey everyone. First off, I would like to thank everyone on here for posting and responding to this thread. I would have had absolutely no idea about this opportunity without you. I am a 33 year old public school teacher in New Jersey and I have been investing with Lincoln Investments for about 10 years now. I recently moved to another school and transferred my 403b plan over with it. Unfortunately, I didn't read this thread until about a month after I had already transferred the 403b over from my last job into this one. As of now I have a current value of about $60,000 in actively managed mutual funds from American Funds that are managed by Lincoln Investments through my 403b plan. The expense ratios are higher than I would prefer (ranging between .25 and a bit over 1 percent just for expense ratios, plus there are other fees) and they charge a 3-6% fee for every transaction which is paid up front.

Once I found out about the participant directed platform, I called up Lincoln and asked about it. The women who I first spoke to told me she had never heard of it and she said she would let my financial adviser know and he would call me back. He called me back and said that he could set up Vanguard funds through Lincoln but they would charge a fee on the total amount of money in the account (something like 3% on all money in the fund itself which scales as the money increases) that Vanguard itself does not charge investors because, "we need to make money somehow." I understand his position to some degree, but I am worried that he may just be trying to keep me with American Funds because he (and Lincoln Investments) make more money that way.

When I asked him to send me the information on the Participant Directed Platform, he said he would, but he also sent me a detailed response showing my returns and the expenses and everything else. The money has gone up quite a bit from when I started (2008 was my first year teaching), but I know from the papers and studies I have read on Motley Fool/other financial websites/BogleHeads that Vanguard low cost mutual funds or ETF's (or similar funds) seem to be better in the long run compared to the types of actively managed funds that my Lincoln Financial Adviser recommends. He seems to be a nice guy and I believe that he thinks he is doing what is best for me, but I also question whether it would be better to just switch everything over to low cost Vanguard Funds or the Vanguard Retirement Fund VTIVX (I'm currently 33 and plan on retiring in about 30 years).

So here are my questions:
1) If I were to switch over to the participant directed platform, how would I switch over the funds I currently have, or would I have to simply close out the account and start a new one with Lincoln that is only for the participant directed?
2) How would I receive these funds once I am looking to take out money from my retirement fund after I retire?
3) How can I compare apples to apples when it comes to the total fees and the total expected returns/actual returns between the participant directed platform and my current portfolio?
4) Has anyone had any logistical issues with switching over to the participant directed platform?

Thank you for reading this long post. I appreciate the help!

A440
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:46 am
Location: NJ

Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by A440 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:59 pm

So here are my questions:
1) If I were to switch over to the participant directed platform, how would I switch over the funds I currently have, or would I have to simply close out the account and start a new one with Lincoln that is only for the participant directed? You can do a transfer from one Lincoln account to the Lincoln PDP (not your school PDP you do annually :D )
2) How would I receive these funds once I am looking to take out money from my retirement fund after I retire? You can withdraw funds as early as age 55 penalty free IF you separate from service with your school district. If you don't need it at 55, you can keep it where it is or roll it into a Traditional IRA and start taking withdrawals at age 59 1/2
3) How can I compare apples to apples when it comes to the total fees and the total expected returns/actual returns between the participant directed platform and my current portfolio? I always enjoy the banter between the Lincoln rep and myself when we compare American Funds (with the load) and Vanguard Index funds. He shows me returns from American's funds and I show him returns for the S&P 500 and Total Stock Market. All do equally well, but once you consider the American Fund's commission and the fund's expense ratio, it is difficult for any American Fund to beat the two Vanguard funds over the long term.
You can't control how the investments will perform, you can only control the fees. Or as Bogle puts it, "In investing you get what you don't pay for".

4) Has anyone had any logistical issues with switching over to the participant directed platform?
No problems for me

You can take some comfort that if you were to keep with the American Funds and Lincoln, you are still way better off than your colleagues who signed up with AXA/Equitable and purchased an expensive variable annuity. We already have an annuity, it is the "A" in TPAF. Plus, I expect to receive another annuity starting at age 70, when my max SS will be collected.

krow36
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Location: WA

Re: Lincoln Investments "Participant Directed Platform"

Post by krow36 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:27 pm

workinfortheweekend! wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:59 am
3) How can I compare apples to apples when it comes to the total fees and the total expected returns/actual returns between the participant directed platform and my current portfolio?
Vanguard has an excellent tool for comparing the cost of fees over time of a Vanguard and a non-Vanguard fund: https://personal.vanguard.com/us/FundsCostCompare After the first calculation, scroll down and change the inputs if your non-Vanguard fund has different fees from the first one due to being a different class.

As for returns, look up the Vanguard fund on their website, choose “Compare”, then “Add fund”, and “other fund families”, and then select a fund family and finally a fund. Vanguard will offer suggestions for similar fund. If Vanguard doesn’t have the fund you’re interested in, you may have to go to M* to find the returns. American Funds equity funds often include both US and international stocks so it’s often not easy to do apples to apples.

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