Search found 3053 matches

by #Cruncher
Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:11 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: TIPS Taxes and IRAs
Replies: 8
Views: 969

Re: TIPS Taxes and IRAs

I understand how this [holding TIPS in an IRA] avoids some of the complex tax calculations for TIPS held in taxable accounts. This is true only for individual TIPS. The accounting for a TIPS fund held in a taxable account is no more complicated than for a nominal treasury mutual fund. For both you ...
by #Cruncher
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:55 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: withdrawal rate if you’re expecting maximum SS at age 70?
Replies: 35
Views: 4675

Re: withdrawal rate if you’re expecting maximum SS at age 70?

I'm not sure that anyone has directly answered the OP's question. ... If I did the math correctly, you should be able to spend 5.7% of your portfolio for the 10 years leading up to taking SS at 70, whereby you switch to using 4% of your portfolio, and retain the same annual income. This ... ignores...
by #Cruncher
Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:50 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: withdrawal rate if you’re expecting maximum SS at age 70?
Replies: 35
Views: 4675

Re: withdrawal rate if you’re expecting maximum SS at age 70?

(Just noticed longinvest 's post above referring to a Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW) method. My post here refers to the simpler (but less robust) method using a constant withdrawal rate.) My question being if was spending 4% starting at 60 years and then all the sudden I’m still at 4% but I h...
by #Cruncher
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:54 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Using the Time Value of Money Formula to Determine Withdrawals: Year 2000 Retiree Example
Replies: 148
Views: 14468

Re: Using the Time Value of Money Formula to Determine Withdrawals: Year 2000 Retiree Example

... the various TVM functions (PMT, FV, PV, RATE, NPER). For anyone wanting to gain familiarity with these five functions, I've created a little six row by four column spreadsheet that may be useful. Enter any four of the five main parameters and it will use the appropriate function [1] to calculat...
by #Cruncher
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:24 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Wait for Social Security - breakeven returns
Replies: 107
Views: 11354

Re: Wait for Social Security - breakeven returns

Imagine a person who: 1) Has a portfolio that is 60% stocks, 40% TIPS, and 2) Is currently planning on taking Social Security at their FRA. ... Let's say the person's Social Security at FRA of 67 would be $1,000/month. So at 62 it would be $700/month. So they can file at 62 and put that $700/month ...
by #Cruncher
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:04 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: TIPS OID for 2011 through 2019
Replies: 20
Views: 4175

TIPS OID for 2019: 1.8%

With the release of the October 2019 CPI today, I've updated my TIPS Interest and OID web page through the end of 2019. It shows interest and OID for each $1,000 face value of the following 47 TIPS. (OID or Original Issue Discount is how the IRS refers to the increase in inflation-adjusted principal...
by #Cruncher
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:00 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Is the effective interest rate of a loan higher when it’s early in amortization period?
Replies: 42
Views: 1914

Re: Is the effective interest rate of a loan higher when it’s early in amortization period?

If I have a limited amount of money to prepay one loan or the other then I save more interest dollars today by paying towards the amortizing loan... Assuming you're referring to the two 5% 60-month loans listed in this post , Clarice, you do indeed save more interest dollars by paying extra toward ...
by #Cruncher
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:28 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Roth Conversion of an individual TIPS bond
Replies: 9
Views: 521

Re: Roth Conversion of an individual TIPS bond

... its value at maturity will be its inflation-defined face value, which may be lower than today's market value of the bond. Therefore, it might be a poor choice to do a Roth conversion of this bond. In favor of converting, its coupon payments for the next 21 years will be in a Roth account. Princ...
by #Cruncher
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:14 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Help me negotiate a lump sum payout.
Replies: 11
Views: 1395

Re: Help me negotiate a lump sum payout.

… monthly payments ... for the next 8 years [96 months]. ... the offer will be 65-75% of the value of [the sum of] the monthly payments. Check what return rate corresponds to The Hartford's offer. 65% is an 11.6% annualized return and 75% is 7.5%. Here they are along with returns for some other pos...
by #Cruncher
Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:58 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Wait for Social Security - breakeven returns
Replies: 107
Views: 11354

Re: Wait for Social Security - breakeven returns

... this [ Cut Throat 's post ] says 'spend more in retirement' but we are interested in maximizing how to 'spend more after taxes' in retirement which we have found is not the likely the same solution for many folks. With the variations of Roth conversions, RMD's, and variable taxes on SS in addit...
by #Cruncher
Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:43 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Wait for Social Security - breakeven returns
Replies: 107
Views: 11354

Re: Wait for Social Security - breakeven returns

Here's a classic post for those who " wish to spend more money in retirement and do not care about leaving an estate ": Delay Social Security to age 70 and Spend more money at 62 . This 2012 post by Cut Throat is well worth reading. Thanks for referencing it. [1] Since that post takes an approach t...
by #Cruncher
Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:55 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Series I Savings Bond 0.20% Fixed Rate Announced 11/1/2019
Replies: 6
Views: 2188

Series I Savings Bond 0.20% Fixed Rate Announced 11/1/2019

TreasuryDirect News Release For those interested, here are the composite rates that will take effect from Nov 2019 to April 2020 [ 1 ] and run for six months for all outstanding I Bonds, including newly issued ones with a 0.20% fixed rate. [ 2 ] They incorporate the new semi-annual inflation rate of...
by #Cruncher
Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:13 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 50 Year US Treasury Bond - who is taker?
Replies: 29
Views: 3030

Re: 50 Year US Treasury Bond - who is taker?

Now for the spreadsheet, again assuming 3% inflation and 2% coupon. The return of principal in 50 years has a present value of $228. Nisi, you're mixing up the inflation rate (which is used to determine real constant dollar value) and the discount rate (which is used to determine present value). Th...
by #Cruncher
Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:51 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which Pension payout works better?
Replies: 15
Views: 1247

Re: Which Pension payout works better?

... according to my calculations, your friend could take the cash and invest it in VTI or SP500. For the first 6 years, he could spend 24k/yr, just like the first pension option, and for the next 20 years, he could spend 36k, just like the second pension option, and he'd still end up with 309k cash...
by #Cruncher
Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:50 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Feedback on a GE Pension buyout offer [US ex-pat in Switzerland]
Replies: 1
Views: 426

Re: Feedback on a GE Pension buyout offer [US ex-pat in Switzerland]

Option 1: lump sum payable in December 2019, $130,413 Option 2: begin receiving reduced monthly annuity payments, starting in December 2019. $561/month Option 3: receive monthly annuity payments at age 60 $2803/month Option 4: receive monthly annuity payments at age 65. $2888/month Here are the Int...
by #Cruncher
Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:20 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Early pension option advice
Replies: 11
Views: 1534

Re: Early pension option advice

I did a quick calculation of the break-even number of years based on the sum of the inflation-adjusted pension payments. For example, if the inflation rate is 2.0%, it takes 6.7 years for the total sum of the delayed pension payments of $1182 to catch up with pension payments of $495 starting now. ...
by #Cruncher
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:29 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Option of Taking Inflation Adjusted Pension - Your Thoughts?
Replies: 6
Views: 770

Re: Option of Taking Inflation Adjusted Pension - Your Thoughts?

By my calculations it looks like a breakeven at age 85. That would indeed be the case if the inflation adjustment is 2% every year starting at age 76. For constant CPI increases of 1%, 2%, 3%, and 4% the following table shows the cash flow differences of the inflation-indexed pension versus the non...
by #Cruncher
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:46 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Early pension option advice
Replies: 11
Views: 1534

Re: Early pension option advice

Choice B – Monthly pymts. Beginning 12/2019 ...– TOTAL $495 monthly Choice C – Monthly pymts. retirement at age 60 beginning 12/2027 ... TOTAL $1,182 monthly or…. Retirement at age 65 beginning 12/2032 ... TOTAL $1,199 monthly Here are the Internal Rates of Return (IRR) I get for each of the three ...
by #Cruncher
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:03 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Mort. Refi math question - how to calculate mid term prepay
Replies: 5
Views: 375

Re: Mort. Refi math question - how to calculate mid term prepay

I currently have a 4% 30 year loan ... I'm contemplating refi-ing to a 3% 15 (since I'm prepaying roughly that amount now ...) It would take you 16.5 years to pay off the old 4% loan if you made the same monthly payment as on the new 3% 15 year loan. This is independent of the loan balance and can ...
by #Cruncher
Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:36 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Hidden liquidity risk with I-bonds
Replies: 43
Views: 4943

Re: Hidden liquidity risk with I-bonds

… after 5 years they act more like an inflation indexed savings account. Not really. The interest rate on a savings account tends to move up and down with market rates. But the fixed rate on an I bond stays the same for 30 years. While I don't think I'd use the term "liquidity risk", I agree with t...
by #Cruncher
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:41 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Pension Question
Replies: 12
Views: 1872

Re: Pension Question

Any idea how much Roth conversion at some favorable tax rate would be enough to move the dial on the pension timing? You're suggesting including income tax when evaluating delaying the pension; specifically in the case of doing more Roth conversions before starting the pension. In theory this would...
by #Cruncher
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:49 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Pension Question
Replies: 12
Views: 1872

Re: Pension Question

For every year that I delay, the monthly amount increases by 4.5%. A 4.5% annual increase in a non-CPI indexed pension is paltry. By comparison, for someone with a Normal Retirement Age (NRA) of 67, Social Security increases between 6.7% and 8.3% per year -- and it is CPI indexed. (See last row of ...
by #Cruncher
Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:28 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Treasury auction of 5 year TIPS coming up....
Replies: 33
Views: 3615

Re: Treasury auction of 5 year TIPS coming up....

i recall it gave a real yield of something like 0.05%... Yes, the yield came in at only 0.054% as shown on the aucton results PDF . This was lower than the yield of the outstanding April 2024 5-year issue -- partially due to seasonal differences between April 15 and October 15 in the CPI used to ad...
by #Cruncher
Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:59 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Another GE Pension Buyout Decision
Replies: 7
Views: 1432

Re: Another GE Pension Buyout Decision

Using present value calculators, option 4 [$2,000/month @ age 65], if you live to 85, will give you nominal return of 5%. That's close to the 4.6% I get. However, option 3 ($1,500/month @ age 60) is slightly higher at 4.9%. (Scroll down in the following table to see.) Overall, option 3 looks best. ...
by #Cruncher
Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:32 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: mortgage refinance math--locking in today
Replies: 6
Views: 598

Re: mortgage refinance math--locking in today

option 1: 3% interest rate (3.035% APR) plus $3300 in closing costs option 2: 2.675% (2.923% APR) plus $11K in closing costs First, check the quoted rates for option 2. The annualized rate for 2.675% is 2.708%, not 2.923%. 2.708% = (1 + 0.02675 / 12) ^ 12 - 1 Assuming the 2.675% is correct, you wou...
by #Cruncher
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:23 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Lump Sum Offer/Pension Buy Out (not from GE)
Replies: 6
Views: 1072

Re: Lump Sum Offer/Pension Buy Out (not from GE)

In order to approximate the annual return of $9,900 from the annuity offered now ($198,000 over 20 years), you would have to earn a return of at least 5.6% on the lump sum of $177,000 ... 5.6% (9900 / 177000) would be the return only if the annuity lasted forever . If it lasted just 20 years, the r...
by #Cruncher
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:30 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Treasury auction of 5 year TIPS coming up....
Replies: 33
Views: 3615

Re: Treasury auction of 5 year TIPS coming up....

How do you know about this offering? How can you buy TIPS? Yes, refer to the Tentative Auction Schedule PDF file mentioned by PJW in this post .Then, about the middle of each month, the official TIPS auction info is shown on the Upcoming Auctions page . Most brokers will accept orders from the "Ann...
by #Cruncher
Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:24 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Lump sum vs Pension
Replies: 20
Views: 2416

Re: Lump sum vs Pension

An estimate [of the pension's present value] can be made, but it's pretty complicated math. In addition to valuing the expected return using average or predicted mortality, you'd need to value the embedded call option associated with the chance of collecting the pension income for longer than the a...
by #Cruncher
Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:54 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Series I bonds - question about compounding interest
Replies: 18
Views: 1930

Re: Series I bonds - question about compounding interest

The interest payments within a semi-annual earning period are not necessarily the same each month. An I Bond that I have made the following sequence of interest payments during one semi-annual earning period: $6.40, $8.00, $6.40, $8.00, $6.40, $8.00. This generally arises because of rounding. The v...
by #Cruncher
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:08 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Consistent Yield & Duration to Help Choose TIPS Fund
Replies: 114
Views: 36921

Re: Consistent Yield & Duration to Help Choose TIPS Fund

I've updated the Yield to Maturity and Duration Calculator with WSJ TIPS Prices 9/30/2019 [*] and the weighting effect of the 10-year auctions in July & September and the 30-year auction in August. As shown in the table below, the weighted average yield of the bonds in the 1+ years broad index (0.34...
by #Cruncher
Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:17 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Interest Rate Risk: Two Views
Replies: 126
Views: 10030

Re: Interest Rate Risk: Two Views

If real rates rise in year one, both the long term and short term funds will suffer NAV loss and because you are spending out of them to fund your retirement, won't be able to recover. I used to agree with this, TI. But after crunching the numbers for several examples, I now see that by matching th...
by #Cruncher
Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:51 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Interest Rate Risk: Two Views
Replies: 126
Views: 10030

Re: Interest Rate Risk: Two Views

Three separate 1% real rate increases can mean over three full years of unfunded retirement that you had assumed in your planning was protected from any rate or duration risk because you were matching fund duration to your liability. … I hope someone can either show how my data is wrong or confirm ...
by #Cruncher
Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:12 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Interest Rate Risk: Two Views
Replies: 126
Views: 10030

Re: Interest Rate Risk: Two Views

So how do I calculate duration change of a fund when yields increase. It's a pain. To get it right, you'd have to calculate the duration change of each underlying bond plus account for the constant maturity (i.e. as "on-the-run" bonds with higher coupons enter the portfolio and "off-the-run" bonds ...
by #Cruncher
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:47 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help with pension choices
Replies: 36
Views: 3039

Re: Help with pension choices

If your wife is five years younger, on average she'll be alive eight years after you're gone. When comparing the joint and single life annuities, It's not the wife's life expectancy that's relevant; it's the last to die expectancy. According to the SSA 1970 Cohort Life Table a 55 year old man is ex...
by #Cruncher
Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:38 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help with pension choices
Replies: 36
Views: 3039

Re: Help with pension choices

... to take the lump sum. It's really not an option for me, but I put it in my post for reference. I'm really looking at the monthly pensions options, and which one of those is best in my situation to take. I understand. So instead of calculating the pension return against the lump sum, using the s...
by #Cruncher
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:47 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help with pension choices
Replies: 36
Views: 3039

Re: Help with pension choices

Hi all. I plan to retire next year at 55 . … My options are: Lump sum: $ 232,064 ... or one of the following monthly pension options w/2% COLA : Option Type: Unmodified Allowance Monthly Amount: $3,611 For You if Beneficiary Dies Before You: N/A To Your Beneficiary: No Monthly Benefit ... Option Ty...
by #Cruncher
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:14 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Early SS to pay Roth convert taxes?
Replies: 23
Views: 2646

Re: Early SS to pay Roth convert taxes?

The extra six months provides 6 * $3634 = $21,804. $21,804/($3748 - $3634)/12 = 15.9 years I think that one gets about the same result for other PIAs. The PIA (Primary Insurance Amount) is irrelevant in determining the breakeven years from delaying Social Security from age 69.5 to 70. It depends on...
by #Cruncher
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:14 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Creating an amortization mortgage loan schedule in excel
Replies: 10
Views: 1098

Re: Creating an amortization mortgage loan schedule in excel

Hmm - might be talking about different templates here. So it appears. Here is the template I got from Excel's File / New menu. I've replaced the default $100.00 for Optional extra payments in cell E9 with $83.46, the amount that should pay off the loan in exactly 10 months. [1] Note that the templa...
by #Cruncher
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:45 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Creating an amortization mortgage loan schedule in excel
Replies: 10
Views: 1098

Re: Creating an amortization mortgage loan schedule in excel

You had it in Excel all along: 1. Open a new sheet in Excel 2. Right click the "sheet1" tab 3. "Insert" --> "Spreadsheet solutions" --> "Loan Amortization" The Excel template wrongly ignores interest when determining the final payment. If one enters $83.46 as "Optional Extra Payments" in cell E9 of...
by #Cruncher
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:37 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How many years for each $250k of net worth?
Replies: 36
Views: 6568

Re: How many years for each $250k of net worth?

This [the table in my post above ] does not include the impact of additional contributions correct? Just investment returns? No, it does include the $1,000 monthly contributions. ---------- Grows To ---------- Years Principal Contribs Total ------- --------- -------- --------- 12.4580 0 250,000 250...
by #Cruncher
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:02 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How many years for each $250k of net worth?
Replies: 36
Views: 6568

Re: How many years for each $250k of net worth?

For example: Saving $1000 a month with an 8% return: First 250k will be reached by year 13 2nd 500k will be reached by year 19 3rd 750k will be reached by year 23 4th 1mil will be reached by year 26 Expanding on this, here are the years needed to add each $250,000; with annual return assumptions of...
by #Cruncher
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:55 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Pension Plan Annuity Offers and COLA dilemma
Replies: 6
Views: 744

Re: Pension Plan Annuity Offers and COLA dilemma

A lump sum distribution is not currently an option. ... market value of the account ... is at $550,621 on Sept 4. ... For example, if I elect to start the annuity on Oct 1, using 0% and 2% COLA's: Sample 1: Joint 70% at 2% fixed COLA per year, lifetime: $1,918 per month. Joint 70% with no COLA (0%)...
by #Cruncher
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:20 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Series I bonds - question about compounding interest
Replies: 18
Views: 1930

Re: Series I bonds - question about compounding interest

My Series I Bond is 6 years old. The interest has been compounding in June and December. If I redeem in October, will I still receive the interest from last compounding to October? (somehow it gets added on prior to the compounding month?) Yes, you would receive the interest through October 2019. T...
by #Cruncher
Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:31 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Social Security age 70 or bust?
Replies: 81
Views: 5339

Re: Social Security age 70 or bust?

There are two ways of looking at delaying SS: 1) Getting the most money out of the system 2) Longevity insurance I chose the latter. No math required. (underline added) I agree, Gerry, that one should normally delay the start of SS as longevity insurance. But to conclude this, math is required. Sta...
by #Cruncher
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:54 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Thirty Year TIPS Auction Thursday August 22 2019
Replies: 21
Views: 2393

Re: Thirty Year TIPS Auction Thursday August 22 2019

Is there an automatic calculator which gives me six months interest data and current value of TIPS? My TIPS Interest & OID web page and spreadsheet display interest amounts. And I've just added columns on the right side of the spreadsheet (which is intended to be customized with your TIPS holdings)...
by #Cruncher
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:49 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Social Security -- Take it at 62, 67 or 70
Replies: 332
Views: 31748

Re: Social Security -- Take it at 62, 67 or 70

Remember the government figures that on average the amount will be the same for whatever time you decide to take. If by the "amount", you mean the discounted present value (PV) , this may be true, basspond. For example, the PV of SS benefits for someone with a Normal Retirement Age (NRA) of 67 who ...
by #Cruncher
Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:34 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Thirty Year TIPS Auction Thursday August 22 2019
Replies: 21
Views: 2393

Thirty Year TIPS Auction Thursday August 22 2019

This Thursday the treasury is re-auctioning the 30-year TIPS maturing 2/15/2049 . (See the announcement PDF file .) This is a change from previous years when the 30-year TIPS was re-auctioned in June and October. (See the thread, 2019 TIPS Auction Schedule Changes .) Yields have come down a lot sinc...
by #Cruncher
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:54 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Social Security -- Take it at 62, 67 or 70
Replies: 332
Views: 31748

Re: Social Security -- Take it at 62, 67 or 70

If the change in benefits happens before you turn 62 or after you turn 70, there is indeed no difference. This is only half right, Homer. If the cut occurs before age 62, there is indeed no effect on the relative values of claiming at different ages. But there is an effect if the cut occurs after a...
by #Cruncher
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:00 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Social Security -- Take it at 62, 67 or 70
Replies: 332
Views: 31748

Re: Social Security -- Take it at 62, 67 or 70

At https://opensocialsecurity.com , play with decreasing the payout in 2034 a bit. Even a modest decrease or 6% changed my optimal retirement date significantly. I did the same - and the strategy was amazingly different. For example, it had me take it at age 64 and 10 months, rather that at age 70....
by #Cruncher
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:43 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Buying Treasuries at Broker?
Replies: 7
Views: 730

Re: Buying Treasuries at Broker?

I thought the coupon rate was set and we buyers bid on the purchase price. At least that’s what happens on the Fido website. At the first auction of a TIPS the competitive bidders bid on the yield, not the price. The coupon is then set equal to or below the winning yield in 1/8 pct increments. E.g....