Search found 6893 matches

by placeholder
Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:38 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: backdoor roth, forgot about rollover IRA
Replies: 12
Views: 836

Re: backdoor roth, forgot about rollover IRA

retiredjg, you said: "And she will have basis in her tIRA until all her tIRA is gone...unless you go to the trouble to "separate the cream from the coffee" by rolling the pre-tax portion of her tIRA into a 401k or similar plan." This might be complicated to figure out as it was originally funded through a 403b and rolled over from the businesses plan administrator to vanguard over a decade ago. So everything was consolidated, no ability to see lots. Would I be forced to roll the entirety of the $85,000 in the tIRA into a Roth? We are in the 35% tax bracket for 2022, 32% for 2021. There is no need to worry about the tax lots because they are irrelevant in iras and the only thing that matters will be the pretax and aftert...
by placeholder
Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:23 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Fidelity- how to add additional pension assets to rollover IRA
Replies: 6
Views: 556

Re: Fidelity- how to add additional pension assets to rollover IRA

That's just a direct rollover check so contact your ira custodian to see if you can deposit through the app otherwise where you need to forward it and whether they want a form completed.
by placeholder
Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:10 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses
Replies: 5057
Views: 756812

Re: The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses

I have two bonuses this year from apex associated custodians and so far the basis was right but of course I won't know the situation on the 1099 until next year.
by placeholder
Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:23 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Cost basis question
Replies: 20
Views: 1464

Re: Cost basis question

In traditional iras the only basis concept is that of aftertax money that won't be taxed again.
by placeholder
Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:16 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: backdoor roth, forgot about rollover IRA
Replies: 12
Views: 836

Re: backdoor roth, forgot about rollover IRA

Don't wait for the 2022 return to be accepted before addressing 2021 because you're going to owe tax and possibly interest and penalty so don't let that accumulate and you will have a revised 8606 to base 2022 on as soon as you're ready to rework that.
by placeholder
Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:11 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Need help | Stupidly incurred large tax bill due to Roth conversion
Replies: 17
Views: 1821

Re: Need help | Stupidly incurred large tax bill due to Roth conversion

The valuable lesson for you and others reading this is that before you do anything new run it by the forum first.
by placeholder
Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:06 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 403b plan - How to keep records vs Trad IRAs
Replies: 5
Views: 332

Re: 403b plan - How to keep records vs Trad IRAs

In general it is wrong to apply anything to do with iras to employer plans like a 403b as they are defined and administered with different sections of the tax code.
by placeholder
Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:43 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Requirement to move 401K
Replies: 26
Views: 1565

Re: Requirement to move 401K

I will point out that we haven't seen the actual communication just a secondhand report that says the account should be moved not must be moved.
by placeholder
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:50 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: solo 401k contribution limit
Replies: 8
Views: 702

Re: solo 401k contribution limit

The total limit applies to each individual plan and the employee deferral is aggregated across all plans.
by placeholder
Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:48 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Loan from 401K to purchase house?
Replies: 22
Views: 2194

Re: Loan from 401K to purchase house?

Atlantic_ave wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:57 am People seem to be pitching in with no idea how a 401k loan works. There are no penalty or double taxation. Only drawback is to be out of the market. It can make aense in many cases, especially in a elevated rates environment.
I am really surprised at how many don't seem to know about the changes in the laws regarding when the borrower leaves the company as that was big news at the time.
by placeholder
Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:00 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: solo 401k contribution limit
Replies: 8
Views: 702

Re: solo 401k contribution limit

You do have to subtract the amount already contributed to the w2 plan from the employee deferral amount but not from the total that can go into the plan.
by placeholder
Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:27 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Loan from 401K to purchase house?
Replies: 22
Views: 2194

Re: Loan from 401K to purchase house?

Mikosan wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:00 am Please, dear lord, don't do this. The penalties. The fees. Borrowing from your future... Bad on all fronts.
What penalties?
by placeholder
Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:26 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Replies: 4834
Views: 566540

Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)

coachd50 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:27 pm Seems like quite the conundrum. We have posters saying that they never have issues with TD (until they do) and some who hate the experience. Then we have posters who can't cash paper bonds and some who can as easily as cashing a check (until their bank stops that service).
But there's no reason you have to do it right away so if in the future you can't find a bank that will cash it then you can use treasury direct.
by placeholder
Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:24 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Requirement to move 401K
Replies: 26
Views: 1565

Re: Requirement to move 401K

delamer wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:06 pm “Must obtain your consent” to make a distribution is not the same as “must allow you to keep your money in their plan.”

At least it seems to me. But maybe its defacto.
Yes it is because if you don't consent they can't move it.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:49 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: How to Move Inherited 401k that Includes Post 1986
Replies: 4
Views: 596

Re: How to Move Inherited 401k that Includes Post 1986

I'm glad alan responded because I had no idea on some those and now I have learned some things!
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:47 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 3-fund portfolio without the Intl fund?
Replies: 28
Views: 2662

Re: 3-fund portfolio without the Intl fund?

It seems like want to use the asset that has been higher earning over the past years and come up with rationalizations for it.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:45 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Does it make sense for me to put CDs in an IRA?
Replies: 10
Views: 1786

Re: Does it make sense for me to put CDs in an IRA?

I'm confused about what mutual funds have to do with it and why you think they are not insured.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:20 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Loan from 401K to purchase house?
Replies: 22
Views: 2194

Re: Loan from 401K to purchase house?

Oddball wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:17 pm I have no problems using a 401k loan to buy a house, but as others have pointed out you do seem to be looking at the interest the wrong way since you will end up being taxed on the interest payments twice. I wouldn't take out any more than you need to get to 20% down and avoid PMI/higher rates, and then pay the loan back once you sell your current house.
This source disagrees:

http://www.401khelpcenter.com/faq/faq_2 ... CD9SvbMLVs
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:17 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Requirement to move 401K
Replies: 26
Views: 1565

Re: Requirement to move 401K

yatesd wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:18 pm It’s a moot point…in most cases it is better to rollover the 401K into an IRA with Vanguard, Schwab, Fidelity, etc. It would be very rare a 401K at a small company to have lower fees and IMHO the personal flexibility is well worth the rollover. Also, look at the brokerage bonus thread.
Certainly not moot if the person is doing backdoor roth.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:14 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Requirement to move 401K
Replies: 26
Views: 1565

Re: Requirement to move 401K

Can you cite a regulation that requires a former employer to allow you to leave your 401(k) with them? Generally, distributions of elective deferrals cannot be made until one of the followi ng occurs: You die, become disabled, or otherwise have a severance from employment. The plan terminates and no successor defined contribution plan is established or maintained by the employer. You reach age 59½ or experience a financial hardship. Depending on the terms of the plan, distributions may be: Nonperiodic, such as lump-sum distributions or Periodic, such as annuity or installment payments. In certain circumstances, the plan administrator must obtain your consent before making a distribution. Generally, if your account balance exceeds $5,000, t...
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:13 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Requirement to move 401K
Replies: 26
Views: 1565

Re: Requirement to move 401K

retire2022 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:55 pm Op

I think your friend has a small balance, which the plan wants to close sounds like this:
The first post said low seven figures.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:10 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Correcting an overfunded ROTH for 2022
Replies: 6
Views: 408

Re: Correcting an overfunded ROTH for 2022

CAsage wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:13 pm
placeholder wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:31 pm Removing the excess is the less favorable approach and the op should not do that until recharacterization has been explored.
I'm working the same problem. If the OP has an excess due to high income, isn't any excess contribution to an IRA, Roth or regular, not allowed? I'm trying to understand how one would recharacterize it if phased out due to high income..... If he can't do a Roth, why would a regular be allowed? I don't see it.
There is no income limit for contributions to a traditional ira only for deducting which is the basis for the backdoor roth that is making a nondeductible contribution and converting to roth but in this case you would recharacterize the roth to traditional then convert.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:58 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses
Replies: 5057
Views: 756812

Re: The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses

And I guess the countless threads and reports of issues when moving between brokerages is all hearsay, good to know. I have not seen anything like countless threads and most that I have involved an error by the person doing the transfer so I challenge you to provide some evidence. But if you want to waste your time and effort chasing after a few dollars here and there, knock yourself out. But do not pretend that every transfer is 100% risk free and there is no margin of error. So far this year I have made $7800 in transfers although the good public.com one isn't available anymore but I will state that I have never had a problem over the past 15 years of doing this that did more than temporarily hang up the transfer and was subsequently res...
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:53 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses
Replies: 5057
Views: 756812

Re: The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses

Well said. In addition to potential cost basis issues, there’s also the issue of the losing brokerage putting up hurdles to leave such as unnecessarily requiring a medallion signature (happened to me once, big PITA), or having to fight to get the promised bonus paid in the first place. I'm way on the high end of transfers for bonuses and nothing like that has happened and likely if we looked at your case it will be something trying to move joint assets to individual or some other account registration mismatch so I consider these to be scare stories with little foundation. I never had a joint assets or mismatch registration, so what are you talking about? By your logic since I've never been in car crash I guess I can discount the experience...
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:23 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Requirement to move 401K
Replies: 26
Views: 1565

Re: Requirement to move 401K

cognovimus wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:16 pm A recently retired buddy of mine just got a notification from his former employer that he should roll over his 401K (currently held by Fidelity) into an IRA or move it to a 401K plan at his new employer. His balance is in the low seven figures. Is this move a requirement? I'm asking because I have also recently retired and wasn't planning to touch my 401K money yet, possibly not until RMDs kick in at 73. I thought retired employees had the option to keep their funds at a former plan, but thought I would check with the Bogleheads community.
Unless the plan is being terminated they can't force out a balance that large but a review of fees and such might be worthwhile at this point.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:58 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Reducing risk
Replies: 20
Views: 1328

Re: Reducing risk

It's kind of like wondering why the car salesman thinks you need to buy a new car.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:31 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Correcting an overfunded ROTH for 2022
Replies: 6
Views: 408

Re: Correcting an overfunded ROTH for 2022

enad wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:42 pm Here's an article from the Motley Fool that can help you:
Removing the excess is the less favorable approach and the op should not do that until recharacterization has been explored.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:30 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Correcting an overfunded ROTH for 2022
Replies: 6
Views: 408

Re: Correcting an overfunded ROTH for 2022

The most favorable path is to recharacterize it as traditional then convert to roth aka backdoor roth but that only works if you had no traditional iras with pretax amounts so we need that information but the important thing is that you do nothing you only instruct your custodian to do things.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:07 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Loan from 401K to purchase house?
Replies: 22
Views: 2194

Re: Loan from 401K to purchase house?

livesoft wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:27 am All was well and good until her company was sold. She did not lose her job, but continued under the new owners. However, the 401(k) plan was shut down and folded into the new buyer's existing 401(k) plan. Her 401(k) loan came due in 30 (or 60?) days. My spouse just paid back the loan using money in our taxable account.
As I noted above the law changed and experiences from years ago are probably not relevant as the time to pay back is greatly increased these days.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:59 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses
Replies: 5057
Views: 756812

Re: The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses

beezlebub wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:19 am Well said. In addition to potential cost basis issues, there’s also the issue of the losing brokerage putting up hurdles to leave such as unnecessarily requiring a medallion signature (happened to me once, big PITA), or having to fight to get the promised bonus paid in the first place.
I'm way on the high end of transfers for bonuses and nothing like that has happened and likely if we looked at your case it will be something trying to move joint assets to individual or some other account registration mismatch so I consider these to be scare stories with little foundation.
by placeholder
Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:07 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Loan from 401K to purchase house?
Replies: 22
Views: 2194

Re: Loan from 401K to purchase house?

David Jay wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:21 am Be aware that if you lose your job or leave the company, the entire loan must be repaid or it will be treated as an unqualified distribution (assuming one is younger than 59.5). You will owe regular income taxes on the outstanding amount plus a 10% penalty.
The rules changed dramatically a few years back and the employee can roll over the plan assets minus the loan amount to an ira or other retirement plan with the difference designated an offset and then have until tax filing due date with extensions for the tax year in which the offset occurs to make up the difference and avoid tax and penalty.
by placeholder
Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:13 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Opening new retirement account - what type of account?
Replies: 16
Views: 878

Re: Opening new retirement account - what type of account?

Gryphon wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:37 pm The only real difference between a Rollover IRA and a Traditional IRA is you could move the Rollover IRA money back into a future employer's 401K plan, assuming you hadn't made any additional contributions to the Rollover IRA. If you don't care about that, then I don't think it matters which one you get.
The law permits moving any pretax amounts from a traditional ira to a company plan and doesn't require it to be a rollover ira nor consist solely of rollover assets and in fact has a rule allowing separating out nondeductible ira contributions which is not to say that a plan won't be more restrictive of course.
by placeholder
Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:10 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Opening new retirement account - what type of account?
Replies: 16
Views: 878

Re: Opening new retirement account - what type of account?

Tax law does still recognize rollover iras but only for a little corner case applying to elderly taxpayers so for most things there's no difference but as noted some 401k and similar plans still use the old rules.
by placeholder
Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:07 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Should I make some basic investments and refine the details later?
Replies: 26
Views: 1571

Re: Should I make some basic investments and refine the details later?

You're making it more complicated that necessary so as a first measure pick a broad stock fund and a bond or stable value fund in the 401k and set those to 85/15 then I recommend providing some more information using the guide below:

viewtopic.php?t=6212
by placeholder
Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:50 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses
Replies: 5057
Views: 756812

Re: The Final, Definitive Thread on Brokerage Transfer Bonuses

bbrock wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:56 am I only started this bonus chasing last fall. I often ponder if it’s worth vs. the benefits of consolidating, especially to make things smoother for my wife in the event something was to happen to me. But for now, chasing seems to win.

If I may ask, what was the main factor for you to want to consolidate?
I don't really see much value in consolidation other than I would be able to update my monthly spreadsheet a few minutes faster but compared to thousands of dollars that's not important to me.
by placeholder
Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:37 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: UPDATE IN THE REPLIES: Want to do a Backdoor Roth, but have a balance in my TIRA
Replies: 22
Views: 1525

Re: UPDATE IN THE REPLIES: Want to do a Backdoor Roth, but have a balance in my TIRA

Pinacoladapopsicle wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:14 am They don't teach you anything about this in school :( A series of innocent mistakes and now I'm in a total mess.
As retiredjg say everything is fine and you can do this with relatively little effort Just go a step at a time and you'll be okay because there plenty of people here that will help.
by placeholder
Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:48 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: sell t-notes to offset capital loss?
Replies: 14
Views: 773

Re: sell t-notes to offset capital loss?

It sounds like your intent is to get rid of the losses and if so why rather than use the losses against your substantial ordinary income over the years.
by placeholder
Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:43 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "Index Funds vs. Mutual Funds"
Replies: 12
Views: 1524

Re: "Index Funds vs. Mutual Funds"

CRC_Volunteer wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:28 pm
Brianmcg321 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:14 pm I don't get the title. Index funds are mutual funds.
You can have actively managed mutual funds.
Yes but it's like saying "beef vs. meat".
by placeholder
Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:36 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Recharacterizing 2022's i401K contribution to be a Roth 401k contribution instead
Replies: 11
Views: 605

Re: Recharacterizing 2022's i401K contribution to be a Roth 401k contribution instead

lucha wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:31 pm
placeholder wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:22 pm Legally traditional 401k contributions can be converted to roth via in plan roth rollover with taxes due on any growth but I have no idea if a vanguard i401k provides that.
Ahhh, I see. In this case there are losses (the money was invested in VTWAX in January 2022 and those shares subsequently tanked...) so it's a loss that can't be recouped with TLH...
You would not collect the loss with a recharacterization either but you will need to find out if irr is even available with your plan.
by placeholder
Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:34 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Wash sale rules, an investor, and his IDGT.
Replies: 4
Views: 478

Re: Wash sale rules, an investor, and his IDGT.

The inclusion of trusts has very narrowly been ruled in previously and should not be taken broadly at all but this is a case where the intent seems to be to deliberately circumvent the rules and could be problematic and really isn't necessary with index funds because reasonable replacement funds that probably will not be considered substantially identical are available.
by placeholder
Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:22 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Recharacterizing 2022's i401K contribution to be a Roth 401k contribution instead
Replies: 11
Views: 605

Re: Recharacterizing 2022's i401K contribution to be a Roth 401k contribution instead

Legally traditional 401k contributions can be converted to roth via in plan roth rollover with taxes due on any growth but I have no idea if a vanguard i401k provides that.
by placeholder
Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:21 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: UPDATE IN THE REPLIES: Want to do a Backdoor Roth, but have a balance in my TIRA
Replies: 22
Views: 1525

Re: UPDATE IN THE REPLIES: Want to do a Backdoor Roth, but have a balance in my TIRA

Before anything check with your company plan to find out the details on whether the rollover in is allowed and what the process is and don't convert anything until the rollover is successful because you can't undo it anymore.
by placeholder
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:26 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Double first mortgage payment?
Replies: 26
Views: 2772

Re: Double first mortgage payment?

Basically biweekly results in an extra payment per year so you could just do that or divide it by 12 and add the extra to each payment but there's little reason to do the biweekly especially if it's a service they charge you for.
by placeholder
Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:55 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Gulf Coast Western
Replies: 12
Views: 858

Re: Gulf Coast Western

Hacksawdave wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:12 pm Yes, kind of like the “Curse of Oak Island” show where nobody can seem to find the supposed buried treasure. Now you know what the curse is. :D
The buried treasure there was the tv show that goes on and on and on.
by placeholder
Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:44 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: VTSAX/VTI in same account
Replies: 10
Views: 1066

Re: VTSAX/VTI IN SAME ACCOUNT

robphoto wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:35 am I had the same thing in an account, and wanted to simplify, so I called them up and they did the conversion (VTSAX to VTI). There are no tax consequences, the value will be the same.
It seems like the desire is to keep the vtsax and you can't do the conversion in the other direction so the vti either has to be sold or kept.
by placeholder
Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:36 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Employer t401k was auto switched to a different fund? Please help?
Replies: 84
Views: 4496

Re: Employer t401k was auto switched to a different fund? Please help?

Vanguard User wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:02 pm
placeholder wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:34 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:04 pm
placeholder wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:13 pm It makes sense for them to get new versions of the funds with lower cost but as for whether you should use those it's difficult to saw without more information: viewtopic.php?t=6212
I already posted that thread.
I don't see it and in fact I don't see any links from you so what are you talking about?
viewtopic.php?t=352302
Then you should have made this part of the that thread because obviously the people wouldn't necessarily know about the other one.
by placeholder
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:34 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Employer t401k was auto switched to a different fund? Please help?
Replies: 84
Views: 4496

Re: Employer t401k was auto switched to a different fund? Please help?

Vanguard User wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:04 pm
placeholder wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:13 pm It makes sense for them to get new versions of the funds with lower cost but as for whether you should use those it's difficult to saw without more information: viewtopic.php?t=6212
I already posted that thread.
I don't see it and in fact I don't see any links from you so what are you talking about?
by placeholder
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:31 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Bank of America/Merrill Edge - Preferred Rewards
Replies: 4973
Views: 559145

Re: Bank of America/Merrill Edge - Preferred Rewards

It's under the no fee banking services.
by placeholder
Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:29 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Critrize my AA
Replies: 14
Views: 1008

Re: Critrize my AA

You been around long enough how to do this: viewtopic.php?t=6212