Search found 429 matches

by joer1212
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:17 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A Special Kind of Market-Linked CD?
Replies: 14
Views: 778

Re: A Special Kind of Market-Linked CD?

Beat The Street wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:37 pm
These are FDIC insured. They aren’t great investments, but other forum members are wrong to compare the returns of an FDIC insured CD to the S&P 500.
True. They have different risk/return profiles.
by joer1212
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:12 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A Special Kind of Market-Linked CD?
Replies: 14
Views: 778

Re: A Special Kind of Market-Linked CD?

P.S. Needless to say, you will find it hard to find out much about the "GS Momentum Builder Multi-Asset 5 ER Index." But from 11/15/2013 to date, it has grown $100 to $118.23 and thus would have grown $10,000 to $11,823. I don't know how that filters through all the other CD machinery and rules (yo...
by joer1212
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:08 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A Special Kind of Market-Linked CD?
Replies: 14
Views: 778

Re: A Special Kind of Market-Linked CD?

If you have been give a vague impression that you can get almost all the return of the stock market, without taking any risk of losses in the stock market, then stop right away. You know that's too good to be true, don't you? Yes, I know there's no such thing as a free lunch. I just wanted to find ...
by joer1212
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:11 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A Special Kind of Market-Linked CD?
Replies: 14
Views: 778

Re: A Special Kind of Market-Linked CD?

Went to a seminar 1. No dividends 2. Usually sever limits on gains and little or none on the downside (other than you get your original money back when it "matures"). I did have one and it did better than a CD, but the market was strong and I only got a fraction of what the market did. It's not spe...
by joer1212
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:24 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A Special Kind of Market-Linked CD?
Replies: 14
Views: 778

A Special Kind of Market-Linked CD?

Can someone give me his opinion on the following investment vehicle, and clarify exactly how it works? From what I understand, it guarantees an annual rate of return (the CD portion) in addition to any (partial?) returns of a diversified index ("GS Momentum BuilderMulti-Asset 5 ER Index"): http://ww...
by joer1212
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:17 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Do Any Annuities Offer a "Free Lunch"?
Replies: 21
Views: 1983

Re: Do Any Annuities Offer a "Free Lunch"?

Thanks for all the informative feedback, guys. I took all your comments to heart and concur with the overwhelming consensus here that this annuity is not for me. I will continue on my current path of diligently investing in broad-market, low-cost index funds.
by joer1212
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:55 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Do Any Annuities Offer a "Free Lunch"?
Replies: 21
Views: 1983

Do Any Annuities Offer a "Free Lunch"?

I recently recruited the help of my financial advisor friend to reach my goal of early retirement*. He suggested an annuity, specifically this one: http://cm.axa-equitable.com/res/prd/be97fc90f28d7d1bc62d656454c4fe1f.pdf How does this annuity compare to other offerings on the market, and how does it...
by joer1212
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:06 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Crypto-Currency
Replies: 29
Views: 3321

Re: Crypto-Currency

I have about 5% of my portfolio invested in a basket of 54 cryptocurrencies (by market weight). Basically, the top 15 or so, with selected cryptos from lower down the list. The rest of my money is in low-cost index funds.
by joer1212
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:48 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Just not getting it [Stock Picking versus TSM]
Replies: 99
Views: 16428

Re: Just not getting it

There are bold investors, old investors, but rarely both. If your horizon is 20+ years and you are not an industry professional, you statistically have zero business picking single stocks to build out a portfolio. If you are picking 1/2/3 stocks for fun like FAANG, that's speculating and is the equ...
by joer1212
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:34 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Vanguard REIT fund changes objective, name & index
Replies: 21
Views: 4600

Re: Vanguard REIT fund changes objective, name & index

I like it, so I’m buying into this fund. Offers a little more diversity in our retiree folios. It will only amount to about 5% for our stock portion of the folio which is currently 40/60. ( Our pensions more than cover expenses, and I was wondering where to put some of the year end RMD monies. So I...
by joer1212
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:31 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Vanguard REIT fund changes objective, name & index
Replies: 21
Views: 4600

Re: Vanguard REIT fund changes objective, name & index

This is why I won't ever again buy any Vanguard funds except the total stock market/s&p index funds in my taxable account. They changed fund objectives and constituents on me several times and I ended up with holdings that weren't what I'd signed up for that cost me taxes when I got out of them. Le...
by joer1212
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:25 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: NRIA.NET - Real Estate Private Placement - 16% return
Replies: 21
Views: 2877

Re: NRIA.NET - Real Estate Private Placement - 16% return

High returns=high risk. There is no free lunch. I can't emphasize this enough.
by joer1212
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:02 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Rental Property as an Investment?
Replies: 20
Views: 1169

Re: Rental Property as an Investment?

Thanks for all the enlightening feedback, guys. It sounds like real estate investing (at least in this property) is a mine field, and potentially a money pit, rather than a goldmine. As you've probably surmised, I'm not well versed in this field. I've spent years becoming proficient in stocks/bonds ...
by joer1212
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:55 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Rental Property as an Investment?
Replies: 20
Views: 1169

Re: Rental Property as an Investment?

Best guess: Looks like someone's rehab ran into structural issues. I'd definitely pay $2-3k for a strucutral engineer and general contractor to examine the entire place, before investing. Great location in North Adams next to Mass MoCA and maybe MCLA, but property has a steep grade. What got me exc...
by joer1212
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:50 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Rental Property as an Investment?
Replies: 20
Views: 1169

Re: Rental Property as an Investment?

If nothing else, take a drive out there. North Adams is not Newton, MA. What do people do for work in North Adams? What's the unemployment rate? What's the average rent? What needs to be done to get the house up to par? Yah, the price is really low. But who will be renting there? If the current lan...
by joer1212
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:49 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Rental Property as an Investment?
Replies: 20
Views: 1169

Re: Rental Property as an Investment?

Flyer24 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:45 pm
It looks like a money pit. 😯
LOL, why? Does it look like it needs a lot of renovations?
by joer1212
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:48 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Rental Property as an Investment?
Replies: 20
Views: 1169

Re: Rental Property as an Investment?

Hypersion wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:20 pm
Do you want to deal with 8 "working class" families? That is almost a job unto its self.
Well, I was thinking to either hand off the responsibility to my brother (who has properties in the area), or hire a management company to deal with it.
by joer1212
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:46 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Rental Property as an Investment?
Replies: 20
Views: 1169

Re: Rental Property as an Investment?

It's been listed since May, 2018. How many real estate investors have looked at the property and taken a pass at it since then....my guess is for good reason. If it were a deal, it would had been swept up by now in this hot market. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. A 'whale' would have swep...
by joer1212
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:29 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Rental Property as an Investment?
Replies: 20
Views: 1169

Rental Property as an Investment?

I saw this listing yesterday for a rental property in Massachusetts. I'm considering cashing out some of my stocks from my taxable account and dumping it into this house. The potential ROI is phenomenal. But, it sounds too good to be true: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/35-37-High-St-St-North-Ad...
by joer1212
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:09 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Traditional IRA Confusion
Replies: 6
Views: 465

Re: Traditional IRA Confusion

With 12% marginal federal taxes, I wouldn't be in such a hurry to defer my taxes. In your situation I'd contribute $5500 to Roth, not traditional. Good to get a mix of both traditional and Roth. Good point. But, I've been maxing out my Roth contributions for the past few years, whereas I've never c...
by joer1212
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:03 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Traditional IRA Confusion
Replies: 6
Views: 465

Re: Traditional IRA Confusion

Was the 5K sale of Total Stock Market long term shares (held for longer than 1+ year) or short term (held for 1yr or less). Short term capital gains are taxed as ordinary income. Long Term Capital gains are taxed at lower tax rates, potentially 0% fed. Out of 5K sale, you need to subtract out the c...
by joer1212
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:19 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Traditional IRA Confusion
Replies: 6
Views: 465

Re: Traditional IRA Confusion

With 37K going into Traditional 401k/403b bringing your AGI down to 43K (and taxable income even lower), I think the tax benefits for TIRA deduction may be small due to low tax bracket. Consider making Roth IRA contributions instead. Are you trying to get your AGI as low as possible to try to quali...
by joer1212
Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:49 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Traditional IRA Confusion
Replies: 6
Views: 465

Traditional IRA Confusion

I want to max out a traditional IRA ($5,500) in order to get a tax deduction. But, there is a 75k income limit in order to claim it. I make 80k a year gross, but I max out my 401(k) and 457(b), making my taxable income only $43,000. Do I qualify to get the full IRA tax deduction? Is my "income" 80k,...
by joer1212
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:11 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account
Replies: 19
Views: 1204

Re: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account

I'm trying to open a traditional IRA with Vanguard right now. They are not giving me the option to withdraw money from my existing Vanguard taxable account and deposit it into my new traditional IRA. Apparently, the only way I can fund it is to transfer money from my linked bank account. I tried to...
by joer1212
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:50 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account
Replies: 19
Views: 1204

Re: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account

Once you open your IRA there, you will have access to a "contribute/withdraw" tool. On the Balances and Holdings page, for instance, there is a little drop-down menu in the heading section for the account; choose "Contribute" and it'll take you to a window with options for sources including your cu...
by joer1212
Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:35 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account
Replies: 19
Views: 1204

Re: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account

Can I open a traditional IRA on my existing Vanguard account home page (with the same user name), so that all of my accounts (taxable, Roth, traditional IRA) are visible on one screen? Or, do I have to create a new user name and new Vanguard account for the traditional IRA? Yes. I'm not sure why Va...
by joer1212
Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:10 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account
Replies: 19
Views: 1204

Re: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account

You do the exact same as you have already done, just click traditional instead of Roth this time. Don't forget you only get 5.5K/yr total. Not each. Sorry for the very late reply. Can I open a traditional IRA on my existing Vanguard account home page (with the same user name), so that all of my acc...
by joer1212
Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:33 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: >$250,000 portfolios with Vanguard? Insurance?
Replies: 42
Views: 8216

Re: >$250,000 portfolios with Vanguard? Insurance?

So, how then do billionaires insure their money? 500k insurance is nothing.
by joer1212
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:03 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How to Use Russell Small Cap Completeness Index Fund with SP500 to Mirror Total Stock Market.
Replies: 12
Views: 1527

Re: How to Use Russell Small Cap Completeness Index Fund with SP500 to Mirror Total Stock Market.

A completion index for the S&P 500 is about 50% mid-caps and 50% small-caps. Hard to be precise because there is no single agreed upon delineation between mid-caps and small-caps. Let's define small-caps as companies worth between 300 million to 2 billion, and mid-caps between 2 and 10 billion. Wou...
by joer1212
Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:45 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How to Use Russell Small Cap Completeness Index Fund with SP500 to Mirror Total Stock Market.
Replies: 12
Views: 1527

Re: How to Use Russell Small Cap Completeness Index Fund with SP500 to Mirror Total Stock Market.

To my dismay, my employer recently replaced my mid-cap and small-cap index funds with with a single smid-cap index fund that tracks the Russell Small Cap Completeness Index. The problem is that this greatly reduces my flexibility to tilt my portfolio. For example, I can no longer tilt to small-caps,...
by joer1212
Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:38 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account
Replies: 19
Views: 1204

Re: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account

I want to stop contributing to my Roth and start contributing to a traditional IRA instead. See also IRA recharacterization - Bogleheads in case you have already made some Roth contributions for 2017 and have now decided that traditional would be better. Thanks for this link. Will check it out tomo...
by joer1212
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:21 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account
Replies: 19
Views: 1204

Re: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account

See Open an IRA account in 3 easy steps | Vanguard . See also IRA Deduction Limits | Internal Revenue Service to determine if you can deduct a tIRA contribution. On the investors.vanguard.com site, there is a menu entitled, investing. After logging in to your account, go there and click on IRA, the...
by joer1212
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:19 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account
Replies: 19
Views: 1204

Re: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account

How do I open a traditional IRA within my already-existing Vanguard account*? (please explain step-by-step) Also, I have REIT and Small Cap Value admiral funds in my Roth IRA. Will I have to meet the minimum 10k investment requirement again for each of these funds to put money in a traditional IRA?...
by joer1212
Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:05 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account
Replies: 19
Views: 1204

Opening a Traditional IRA Within Existing Vanguard Account

How do I open a traditional IRA within my already-existing Vanguard account*? (please explain step-by-step) Also, I have REIT and Small Cap Value admiral funds in my Roth IRA. Will I have to meet the minimum 10k investment requirement again for each of these funds to put money in a traditional IRA? ...
by joer1212
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:44 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

I need to increase my liquid cash position by about 15-20k. Should I reduce my retirement contributions, or simply liquidate a portion of my taxable investments? Which option would have less impact on my tax burden? Details: - I'm single, with no kids - I live in Brooklyn, NY - I own no real estate...
by joer1212
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:10 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

So, let's take a smaller step: If you sell $15,000 of your VTIAX this year, how much of that $15,000 will appear on your tax return? Not sure of the exact numbers yet. I've struggled to find pertinent info on the labyrinthine IRS.gov. to confirm what I've been told here and do my own calculations. ...
by joer1212
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:08 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

livesoft is pointing you in the right direction. The exact dollar amount of gains to take is $6,972, take one dollar more and now you will be paying more in taxes. This is the amount of capital gains that would be taxed at 0%. This is not the dollar amount of securities to sell. Yes, I'm aware of t...
by joer1212
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:01 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

So, let's take a smaller step: If you sell $15,000 of your VTIAX this year, how much of that $15,000 will appear on your tax return? Not sure of the exact numbers yet. I've struggled to find pertinent info on the labyrinthine IRS.gov. to confirm what I've been told here and do my own calculations. ...
by joer1212
Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:11 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

This is the best explanation I've gotten so far. I will withdraw about $6,972 tax-free this tax year and about the same amount tax-free next year (assuming my income is about the same). I don't think you get it yet. What exactly do you mean by "withdraw about $6,972 tax-free this year" ?? Going by ...
by joer1212
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:25 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

You could sell $11,000 from your taxable investments, and put $5500 in cash in a Roth IRA now, and $5500 in January 2018. This would increase your tax-deferred savings, and you could withdraw the $11,000 at any time tax-free. You would pay some tax now by doing this, but you would reduce your futur...
by joer1212
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:20 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

You can sell $15K to $20K of any long-term "lots" that have a total of about $7K of unrealized capital gains in order to realize about $7K of long-term capital gains and not pay any additional taxes. That is, the $15K to $20K would be tax-free to you I read your detailed post about "specific identi...
by joer1212
Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:19 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

How did you go to that other website?, I indicated IRS.Gov as the source. Alternatively, you can use Turbotax Caster online, input your specific information and anticipated securities sales and cost basis, it will calculate the tax for you. Adding ten additional dollars of capital gain, will cause ...
by joer1212
Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:50 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

You can sell $15K to $20K of any long-term "lots" that have a total of about $7K of unrealized capital gains in order to realize about $7K of long-term capital gains and not pay any additional taxes. That is, the $15K to $20K would be tax-free to you I read your detailed post about "specific identi...
by joer1212
Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:31 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

You can sell $15K to $20K of any long-term "lots" that have a total of about $7K of unrealized capital gains in order to realize about $7K of long-term capital gains and not pay any additional taxes. That is, the $15K to $20K would be tax-free to you I read your detailed post about "specific identi...
by joer1212
Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:49 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

It is unlikely that you have lots that have losses since the stock market is pretty much at all-time highs, but if you have lots with losses, then you are not too late to tax-loss harvest for 2017. Yes, selling to realize gains will affect your NYS/NYC taxes. Sorry, I meant if I was too late to tax...
by joer1212
Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:44 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

Not answering your questions but I have a question for you. Why are you maxing out 401K and 457b and not putting money in a Roth? I would contribute to the 401K or 457b up to the match, then put money in the $5,500 a year ROTH bucket, then save any left over money in a saving account to build up my...
by joer1212
Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:37 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

Line 43 on form 1040 states that my taxable income is $30,978. My marginal tax bracket is 25% My LifeStrategy fund has only about 6k, but my other 2 accounts have almost 200k. Not sure what my unrealized capital gains are, but they are long-term (more than 1 year). Forgive my ignorance, but what is...
by joer1212
Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:52 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Re: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

What is your marginal income tax bracket? Or what is your taxable income shown on Form 1040 Line 43? I assume you are itemizing deductions and filing single. What is the amount of your LifeStrategy fund in dollars and what are the unrealized capital gains? Are they long-term? Have you set the cost ...
by joer1212
Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:17 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?
Replies: 34
Views: 3176

Which is the Most Tax-Efficient Method to Increase Your Cash Position?

I need to increase my liquid cash position by about 15-20k. Should I reduce my retirement contributions, or simply liquidate a portion of my taxable investments? Which option would have less impact on my tax burden? Details: - I'm single, with no kids - I live in Brooklyn, NY - I own no real estate ...
by joer1212
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:01 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Equifax customer information leak
Replies: 711
Views: 66194

Re: Equifax customer information leak

I don't ever remember granting Experian access to my SS# and personal info to begin with. Now that corrupt company sold my info and milllions of others to the dark web for millions of dollars worth of bitcoins most likely. I'm definitely joining a class action as soon as I see the option to sign up...