Search found 577 matches

by WoW2012
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:41 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

The risk of buying the policy late is that you might develop some health problems that make your premiums skyrocket or makes you uninsurable. If you are being offered actuarially fair rates at all ages, it would be better to buy the policy earlier rather than later. The risk of price increases afte...
by WoW2012
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:37 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

As TN_Boy noted, most financial professionals who don't have a vested interested in LTCi are not strong proponents of it. Why do Vanguard financial advisors recommend long-term care insurance? And it's not just Vanguard. I personally know several fiduciary financial advisers who have specifically r...
by WoW2012
Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:56 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Answers to Will's questions. 1. At what specific level of net worth and/or investment portfolio size can a retiree or retired couple adequately self-insure the risk of LTC or what specific process should they use to determine that specific level? No offense, but it's a silly question. Most of my net...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:38 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

My wife and I both have LTC insurance. We’ve had them for close to 20 years, having signed up through work. When I look at LongTermCare.gov, I see they estimate that 70% of those over 65 will need some form of LTC. Perhaps much of that can be at home and But even at home, any hired help can be expe...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:35 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

I remember how expensive I thought that life and additional disability insurance was years back. I never collected on the life policy or the disability - I do not at all feel like I 'lost out' at all - my wife and daughter were protected the way I wanted them to be. That's what it's all about. And ...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:33 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

:thumbsup If we had a working crystal ball, the decision as to whether to buy insurance of any kind would be far easier. But we don't and never will. Much of this issue can be simplified with a fairly straightforward question: to what extent are you willing to rely on Medicaid as a backup plan to f...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:27 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

It can make sense in certain situations for people who are wealthy enough to self-insure to purchase insurance. It comes down to risk tolerance and the amount by which the premium exceeds actuarially fair amount. If a wealthy person is sufficiently risk averse, and the premium is not too much above...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:24 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Yes, but pricing, terms, and uncertainties (including with the LTC policies themselves) are what this whole issue is all about, isn't it? I fail to see how the attractiveness of policies that are no longer available today at anywhere close to their original premiums is relevant to today's decision ...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:20 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

1. Half is the worst case, since it is very unlikely that anyone will stay in LTC long enough to use up half the assets. 2. If you have 1.5M in assets, SS is a fraction of the total income. The other part is reduced less in your scenario. 3. It is entirely reasonable for one partner to contemplate ...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:10 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

2a. Could it objectively (i.e. not emotionally) make financial sense for a retiree or retired couple to purchase LTCi when they can self-insure and, if so, why? As I've said, at least twice in this thread, it might make financial sense (aside from emotional or logistical reasons) for some (like me,...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:04 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

WOW, I'm still interested in the names of insurers that offer this. The traditional LTC quotes I have received (Transamerica, Mutual of Omaha) didn't offer 5/5 plus another 5 years of coverage and the coverage doesn't equal even today's SN cost in my state. (I know many people don't end up needing ...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:54 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

No, they didn't have increases for about the first 10-15 years. Now, it seems they get hit with 15% or more increases 2 out of 3 years. In which state did your parents reside when they purchased the policy? From which insurance company did they purchase the policy? Did they buy their policy before ...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:35 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

If the policy is purchased in one of the 41 states that has enacted the Rate Stability Regulation, then the policy will be governed by the Rate Stability Regulation. The Rate Stability Regulation punishes long-term care insurers if they request a rate increase by forcing them to lower their profits...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:51 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Ben Mathew wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:45 am

If somebody gave you an extra $1 million for your retirement, would you spend more in retirement or would it have no effect at all? Conversely, if somebody stole $1 million from your retirement funds, would you spend less in retirement or would it have no effect at all?

+1
Excellent point!
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:50 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

What about the $6,000 annual premium for the policy that you’ve been mentioning? Are there any guarantees that the premium won’t increase or that the benefits won’t be reduced, whether those things happen annually or irregularly? Or at least caps on premiums? That is certainly one of the major fear...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:43 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

bsteiner wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:05 am

Insurance works best for things that aren't likely to happen but would cause a large loss if they were to happen.

Isn't that exactly what we're talking about?
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:40 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Here are some excerpts: "Long-term care insurance. Long-term care insurance pays for only a small portion of care in the U.S. Such policies have historically been expensive, and most have benefit caps that may reduce the usefulness of insurance in the most severe scenarios. However, as the market e...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:36 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Precisely. I'll bet that premiums is for a couple aged 55. They would be buying it at that age knowing that there is only a tiny chance that they'll make a claim for the first decade of paying for it, but if they wait until age 65 or later, the premiums will be much more expensive, and WoW2012 has ...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:24 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

I was not being facetious. A healthy couple in their early 60's can buy $1.5M of LTCi benefits for about $6K/yr in premium. It would pay $100K per year per spouse. One spouse could use up to $1.0 million in benefits, reserving the other .5M for the other spouse. It's available in 47 states (NOT NY,...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:04 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

But I would like to follow up a bit on the comment that desirability of a policy depends on circumstances, in addition to assets. WoW's comments often focus on "preservation of assets" as a justification. Long-term care insurance is not about protecting assets. It's about protecting income. You don...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:03 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:36 pm
As TN_Boy noted, most financial professionals who don't have a vested interested in LTCi are not strong proponents of it.
Why do Vanguard financial advisors recommend long-term care insurance?
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:02 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Many of us have wished for real examples of policies with enough details. Sorry, basis points don't cut it. Are these enough details for you: A healthy couple in their early 60's can buy $1.5M of LTCi benefits for about $6K/yr in premium. It would pay $100K per year per spouse. One spouse could use...
by WoW2012
Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:00 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Ok, I'm new here. Bear's advice I is crystal clear. But WOW, are you being facetious? Because none of the options I'm considering would give me that coverage amount. Anyway, I'm going to rerun my numbers with NO LTC expense. Maybe that will help. Cognovimus, you are new here. Wow is not. He posts, ...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:59 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

If you knew that was going to happen, sure, buy the insurance. But you don't. LTC sales people don't mention that 30% of people ... will need zero LTC care (at home or in a facility): https://longtermcare.acl.gov/the-basics/how-much-care-will-you-need.html I'll go one step further. Only about 1 in ...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:53 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

The question is not if it is taught in "sales tactics 101', but was the statement true or false. Totally true IMO. The statement might be true, but it's changing the mode of comparison to one that is not familiar to most people and in such a way as to potentially minimize the perceived cost of LTCi...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:47 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

As a broker for almost 40 years WOW's information is almost always spot on, he is one of the most knowledgeable brokers in the country. One might not like how he delivers his information. My experience is that folks that haven't personally experienced the struggle of long term care, very difficult ...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:46 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

The question is not if it is taught in "sales tactics 101', but was the statement true or false. Totally true IMO. The statement might be true, but it's changing the mode of comparison to one that is not familiar to most people and in such a way as to potentially minimize the perceived cost of LTCi...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:44 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Precisely. I'll bet that premiums is for a couple aged 55. They would be buying it at that age knowing that there is only a tiny chance that they'll make a claim for the first decade of paying for it, but if they wait until age 65 or later, the premiums will be much more expensive, and WoW2012 has ...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:40 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

The question is not if it is taught in "sales tactics 101', but was the statement true or false. Totally true IMO. Walk me through the dollar amount. 15 basis points on 4m .... that's $6,000? So for $6,000 a year you can get 1.5 million in LTC insurance? Is that for a couple or an individual? So tw...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:31 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

As a broker for almost 40 years WOW's information is almost always spot on, he is one of the most knowledgeable brokers in the country. One might not like how he delivers his information. My experience is that folks that haven't personally experienced the struggle of long term care, very difficult ...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:31 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Cognovimus, Stop it. Stop worrying that every bad possibility will happen (did I miss World War Z) 4 million and social security more than makes this work. Self fund long term care. Done. Bear ps. I have this conversation with my self on a too regular basis. Not that the numbers change, just a litt...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:29 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

As a broker for almost 40 years WOW's information is almost always spot on, he is one of the most knowledgeable brokers in the country. One might not like how he delivers his information. My experience is that folks that haven't personally experienced the struggle of long term care, very difficult ...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:28 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Ok, I'm new here. Bear's advice I is crystal clear. But WOW, are you being facetious? Because none of the options I'm considering would give me that coverage amount. Anyway, I'm going to rerun my numbers with NO LTC expense. Maybe that will help. Cognovimus, you are new here. Wow is not. He posts, ...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:27 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Cognovimus, Stop it. Stop worrying that every bad possibility will happen (did I miss World War Z) 4 million and social security more than makes this work. Self fund long term care. Done. Bear ps. I have this conversation with my self on a too regular basis. Not that the numbers change, just a litt...
by WoW2012
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:22 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Maybe someone should create a poll on this thread to see how many quadra-millionaires are on this forum and see how many of them have collision insurance on their cars. One here. A difference between having collision insurance on the car is that I’d have to make a choice not to have it on a vehicle...
by WoW2012
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:21 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Let's be careful not to compare policies written 20 or 30 years ago with what one can buy today. I have several older relatives who bought LTCI policies in the 1990s that were set up such that they were "paid in full" after 10 years of payments or even a single up front cash payment like an SPIA. T...
by WoW2012
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:11 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Cognovimus, Stop it. Stop worrying that every bad possibility will happen (did I miss World War Z) 4 million and social security more than makes this work. Self fund long term care. Done. Bear ps. I have this conversation with my self on a too regular basis. Not that the numbers change, just a litt...
by WoW2012
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:08 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

$4 million, plus SS benefits, maybe other income, and a paid for home means that he has no need at all for LTC insurance. Assuming 4% withdrawals, his portfolio alone should easily provide $160k of annual income, more than enough to cover LTC. Everything else is added safety. ...and he has no need ...
by WoW2012
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:22 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

$4 million, plus SS benefits, maybe other income, and a paid for home means that he has no need at all for LTC insurance. Assuming 4% withdrawals, his portfolio alone should easily provide $160k of annual income, more than enough to cover LTC. Everything else is added safety. ...and he has no need ...
by WoW2012
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:57 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

A better policy would be one where you paid the first 3 years, or the first $300,000, and the insurance company paid everything after that. But it doesn't exist. This was the exact proposal as an original component of ACA. But was deleted prior to passage of ACA. Perhaps it could be included next t...
by WoW2012
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:34 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Fair point. This isn't likely to be much of a problem for the person who is likely to consider a Medicaid-compliant annuity (MCA). Someone with $2 million and significant SS benefits and/or a pension is very likely better off self-insuring. As the sources that discuss MCAs often note, most of those...
by WoW2012
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:00 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Again, please cite the regulations that require this. This is common sense if you understand the concept of "Individual Retirement Account'. You can do your own research or call immediateannuities.com and ask them as suggested. Try having your RMDS paid to someone else directly so that the income s...
by WoW2012
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:15 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Because you would retain those funds as opposed to an insurance company. If there are either reasonable LTC facilities in your area that will either immediately take Medicaid or will take you as self-pay for a year or two and then transition to Medicaid, you could use such funds to buy a SPIA after...
by WoW2012
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:42 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Going a bit further, if "self pay" means you would lower your spending and change your investment strategy (note that investing a chunk of your nest egg very conservatively for 20 years means you probably wind up with less total money ...) , why not just pay for LTC insurance?? Because you would re...
by WoW2012
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:11 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

Going a bit further, if "self pay" means you would lower your spending and change your investment strategy (note that investing a chunk of your nest egg very conservatively for 20 years means you probably wind up with less total money ...) , why not just pay for LTC insurance?? Because you would re...
by WoW2012
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:51 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

And a long-term care partnership policy essentially is an unlimited benefit period (because Medicaid is the back stop that never runs out.) You've mentioned LTC partnership policies many times, but it doesn't seem to correspond with the disdain you've shown in many posts toward Medicaid. Based on m...
by WoW2012
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:25 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: long term care insurance
Replies: 124
Views: 7928

Re: long term care insurance

So the industry was providing junk before the federal government forced them to do otherwise, but they are now providing great products? I won't apologize for remaining dubious about the whole affair. I agree with nisiprius who said earlier that when it comes to paying for LTC, there are no good op...
by WoW2012
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:15 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

And a long-term care partnership policy essentially is an unlimited benefit period (because Medicaid is the back stop that never runs out.) You've mentioned LTC partnership policies many times, but it doesn't seem to correspond with the disdain you've shown in many posts toward Medicaid. Based on m...
by WoW2012
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:55 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long-Term Care Decision
Replies: 330
Views: 15051

Re: Long-Term Care Decision

ResearchMed wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:24 pm
There is not, regardless of how you try to present LTCI, a single right answer for everyone. There just isn't.

RM
When did I ever say that? Just a few posts ago I said that at least 50% of retirees don't need long-term care insurance.
by WoW2012
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:53 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: long term care insurance
Replies: 124
Views: 7928

Re: long term care insurance

I hope you realize that this is one of several reasons why many who don't own LTC insurance, including myself, are more than a little suspicious about the product. We were told that the LTC actuaries all really screwed up but that they now have a better grasp on the situation. Most of those who off...