Search found 698 matches

by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:32 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

What are the other details (e.g. what ages is this based upon, elimination period, inflation rider, etc.)? The ages OP gave: 70 & 69 Elimination Period: 90 days. (180 days would decrease premium by 10%) ~$5,500 monthly benefit per person 15 years of shared benefits (one spouse can use up to two-thi...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:23 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

What are the other details (e.g. what ages is this based upon, elimination period, inflation rider, etc.)? The ages OP gave: 70 & 69 Elimination Period: 90 days. (180 days would decrease premium by 10%) ~$5,500 monthly benefit per person 15 years of shared benefits (one spouse can use up to two-thi...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:21 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

The arguments for having long term care insurance are at least as compelling as the arguments for having liability insurance or life insurance. You're actually more likely to spend a few hundred $K on a nursing home stay than on a lawsuit settlement, and you're more likely to end up in a nursing ho...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:19 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Yes, I'm familiar with it. So, premiums paid for life then? What premium increases are you seeing in Florida now for inforce policies? The top selling long-term care insurance company has been selling policies in Florida since the late 1980's. Florida enacted their Rate Stability Regulation on Janu...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:52 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

KSActuary wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:36 pm
What is the premium payment period? I assume life. I also assume the premiums are not guaranteed?
Fortunately, the state of Florida has enacted the Rate Stability Regulation. Are you familiar with that?
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:23 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

What are the other details (e.g. what ages is this based upon, elimination period, inflation rider, etc.)? The ages OP gave: 70 & 69 Elimination Period: 90 days. (180 days would decrease premium by 10%) ~$5,500 monthly benefit per person 15 years of shared benefits (one spouse can use up to two-thi...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:07 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Just requested a hybrid LTC quote for one of my clients. Pretty basic stuff but I could post anonymous info and we can discuss? Please do. We hear a lot of generic information tossed around about what policies would cost, but actual quotes on new policies for real people are not common. What are yo...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:36 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Just requested a hybrid LTC quote for one of my clients. Pretty basic stuff but I could post anonymous info and we can discuss? Please do. We hear a lot of generic information tossed around about what policies would cost, but actual quotes on new policies for real people are not common. What are yo...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:23 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Hybrids also tend to make more sense for people who live in Florida or California (because in both of those states traditional LTCi policy rates tend to be much higher than the other 48 states due to state-specific regulations.) Do not agree with rates being significantly higher in CA. I got a poli...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:46 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

But what do I know, I'm only an expert on the subject. I suppose that no one is a better expert on LTCi than a self-professed one who just happens to also sell it for a living. Having sold LTC insurance for over 25 years has certainly given me the opportunity to learn everything I could on the subj...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:08 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Michael K. doesn't know what he's talking about. That's absolutely preposterous . Kitces is one of the most respected experts in the field of personal finance out there. Claiming that he doesn't know what he's talking about is beyond ludicrous. There are policies that cover the long-tail risk. If t...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:15 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Yes, the likelihood of filing a LTCi claim is much higher than a liability policy. That's partly why they cannot be easily compared, as Small Savana was trying to do. They are very different products. With an umbrella liability policy, you are buying 'tail risk' insurance, that is, you are very unl...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:10 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

With those quotes that would make the decision to purchase LTCi much easier to solve - do not purchase. We have had life insurance and additional disability insurance at times in the past because the risk/reward was favorable for our situation. We have neither now that they are not applicable and/o...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:52 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

The arguments for having long term care insurance are at least as compelling as the arguments for having liability insurance or life insurance. You're actually more likely to spend a few hundred $K on a nursing home stay than on a lawsuit settlement, and you're more likely to end up in a nursing ho...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:49 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

But, if we are doing a Homo economicus analysis of the decision, that same logic implies that Bill/Warren should rationally 1)Buy trip cancellation insurance for their trip to Disneyworld, so they won't be out the airfare if something comes up. 2)Buy burial insurance so their spouse won't have to s...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:35 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

The arguments for having long term care insurance are at least as compelling as the arguments for having liability insurance or life insurance. You're actually more likely to spend a few hundred $K on a nursing home stay than on a lawsuit settlement, and you're more likely to end up in a nursing ho...
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:42 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

[ quoted post removed by admin LadyGeek]

Can you share the reasons you think the 3 reasons I listed are "bad logic"?
by WoW2012
Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:05 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Every time the subject of LTCi comes up, I notice the majority of the people who have it seem to like it (count me as one), and the majority of people who don't have it seem to want to compare it to an investment. Folks, insurance is NOT an investment. TravelforFun TRUTH! It either makes sense to s...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:55 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

You can search me and see my other thread on this. Wife and I both have LTC and are happy with the way the policy worked out. Best time to buy is when you are both healthy and can get the best rates. Recently my father went into assisted living and I am having a tough time getting his LTC company t...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:51 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

A decamillionaire has no need of LTC insurance. Some of them may choose to buy it (or, more likely, be sold it), but they certainly don't need it. They could light their cigars with $100 bills too with no problems, but that wouldn't make it a financially prudent decision. Yes, I have many decamilli...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:39 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

willthrill81 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:12 pm

I don't know of anyone other than someone who sells insurance who would say that "the more money someone has the more sense it makes to own long-term care insurance."

Why do I always get criticized for not being a lemming?
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:37 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Even though the preponderance of opinion in this forum is that I could assume the risk myself I still would like to know the difference between traditional LTC insurance and the newest hybrid plans? What are the pros and cons of each. Can you clarify that for me? Thanks hybrid policies are "asset b...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:15 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

I have been quoted 15,000 per yr for a shared traditional policy with my wife with a 6,000 monthly benefit, 3% inflation protection, 3 year duration (at age 70) so I do want to know what you get for a 237 monthly premium and what is the age of those who are paying that premium? It's amazing how man...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:05 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

"The purpose of long-term care insurance is not to protect yourself from financial ruin. It's to protect what you've earned. Long-term care insurance is portfolio insurance. The more money someone has the more sense it makes to own long-term care insurance because their annual premium is equal to a...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:03 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

The purpose of long-term care insurance is not to protect yourself from financial ruin. It's to protect what you've earned. Long-term care insurance is portfolio insurance. The more money someone has the more sense it makes to own long-term care insurance because their annual premium is equal to a ...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:00 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

What's the average coverage to go with the premium? I.e. how many months and how much per month? How much someone can buy for that "average" premium depends upon how old and healthy they were when they bought it. Excluding policies that have a lifetime/unlimited benefit period, the average policy w...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:02 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

The way that the premiums are paid: in dollars. So you never look at your budget in terms of percentages? I do. Scale is important. People aren’t stupid and are able to consider basis points, percentages and raw dollars. Cheers Great point, Silk. My wife and I never could get a real handle on our h...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:58 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

LTC insurance that provides appropriate levels of daily coverage is difficult to price because no one knows what that cost is many years in the future so insurance companies default to providing an inflation-adjusted daily maximum that the policyholder can coordinate with their existing assets and ...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:52 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

The purpose of long-term care insurance is not to protect yourself from financial ruin. It's to protect what you've earned. Long-term care insurance is portfolio insurance. The more money someone has the more sense it makes to own long-term care insurance because their annual premium is equal to a ...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:50 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

That may be how you think about it, but it's not how everyone thinks about it. How well (or poorly) an investment portfolio does is determined using percentages (e.g. basis points), not dollars. There are enough who DON'T think about it the same way that you do- that you hurt the chances of underst...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:57 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

That may be how you think about it, but it's not how everyone thinks about it. How well (or poorly) an investment portfolio does is determined using percentages (e.g. basis points), not dollars. There are enough who DON'T think about it the same way that you do- that you hurt the chances of underst...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:56 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

LTC insurance that provides appropriate levels of daily coverage is difficult to price because no one knows what that cost is many years in the future so insurance companies default to providing an inflation-adjusted daily maximum that the policyholder can coordinate with their existing assets and ...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:54 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Investment management and financial planning. Isn't the tax law regarding long-term care benefits a fait accompli? Since 1997 long-term care insurance premiums have been tax-deductible and benefits are tax-free? I might be more concerned with gifting/moving assets to next generation(s) for someone ...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:52 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

willthrill81 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:20 pm
Mathematically, they are likely to come out ahead by self-insuring vs. buying insurance.

The only people who come out ahead by self-funding are those who end up needing very little care (12 months or less).
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:50 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Basis points per year is not how to think about LTC. You want to think in $$ per year, and in how many years you'll pay premiums. That may be how you think about it, but it's not how everyone thinks about it. How well (or poorly) an investment portfolio does is determined using percentages (e.g. ba...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:19 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Keep in mind that: a) most people survive COVID, even the elderly. b) the cure can cause severe heart problems c) survivors can have severe lung damage and brain damage d) plus we don't know what other side effects there are.... Lastly, insurance companies don't want to be sued for spreading the vi...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:13 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

adamthesmythe wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:10 pm
There is a sort of agreement here. Some say OP can't buy LTC, and most of the others say he shouldn't.
The OP can buy an "LTC Hybrid" (e.g. asset-based product) because those products don't require in-home health interviews.
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:06 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

KSActuary wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:59 pm
Investment management and financial planning.
Isn't the tax law regarding long-term care benefits a fait accompli?
Since 1997 long-term care insurance premiums have been tax-deductible and benefits are tax-free?
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:57 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

LTC insurance that provides appropriate levels of daily coverage is difficult to price because no one knows what that cost is many years in the future so insurance companies default to providing an inflation-adjusted daily maximum that the policyholder can coordinate with their existing assets and ...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:41 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

gr7070 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:30 pm

I've also held collision (even when able to self-insure) when the cost to insure was a reasonablly low expense; as it's *not* for the OP for LTC.

Why do you think the cost for the OP to own LTC insurance is not "a reasonably low expense"?
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:28 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

IF you decide to purchase, get the longest possible elimination period. This will GREATLY lower your premium because a great many people only last a few months in LTC, and the insurance companies know this. Ralph About 95% of the policies purchased today have a 90-day Elimination Period. Lengthenin...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:02 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

$3M net worth Still working Will not even need to access much retirement savings for some time Sounds like the perfect candidate to self-insure. Unless you want to leave most of the $3 million to heirs. TravelforFun Not necessarily. By retaining control of their funds and investing them, they stand...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:01 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

$3M net worth Still working Will not even need to access much retirement savings for some time Sounds like the perfect candidate to self-insure. Unless you want to leave most of the $3 million to heirs. TravelforFun Not necessarily. By retaining control of their funds and investing them, they stand...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:00 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

Keep in mind that: a) most people survive COVID, even the elderly. b) the cure can cause severe heart problems c) survivors can have severe lung damage and brain damage d) plus we don't know what other side effects there are.... Lastly, insurance companies don't want to be sued for spreading the vir...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:38 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

We are considering obtaining LTC Insurance and we are presented with two options Traditional Insurance and Hybrids. We are also considering the possibility of self insurance or partial insurance where we share the cost with the insurance company. The daily cost of a nursing home bed in the area whe...
by WoW2012
Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:14 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Long Term Care Insurance
Replies: 159
Views: 4474

Re: Long Term Care Insurance

We have numerous threads on LTCi and the tend to get contentious. The search bar will provide lots of education and perspective. Strong opinions on both sides. This is a recent thread. https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=303010 Wow2012 is in the business and although not appreciate...
by WoW2012
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:13 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: long term care insurance versus self-insuring
Replies: 98
Views: 5312

Re: long term care insurance versus self-insuring

Moving into a CCRC in your 60s is a great strategy for everyone who knows they won't become disabled before then. If by 'disabled' you mean 'need LTC', the odds are overwhelmingly no according to statistics provided by the LTC insurance industry. Yes, it happens to a very few, and we might turn out...
by WoW2012
Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:51 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: long term care insurance versus self-insuring
Replies: 98
Views: 5312

Re: long term care insurance versus self-insuring

Moving into a CCRC in your 60s is a great strategy for everyone who knows they won't become disabled before then. If by 'disabled' you mean 'need LTC', the odds are overwhelmingly no according to statistics provided by the LTC insurance industry. Yes, it happens to a very few, and we might turn out...
by WoW2012
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:25 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: long term care insurance versus self-insuring
Replies: 98
Views: 5312

Re: long term care insurance versus self-insuring

Moving into a CCRC in your 60s is a great strategy for everyone who knows they won't become disabled before then.
by WoW2012
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: long term care insurance versus self-insuring
Replies: 98
Views: 5312

Re: long term care insurance versus self-insuring

This policy protects you from AT MOST $144k of long term care expenses. If you need longer or more expensive care, the policy does nothing. At your level of assets, the risk of having to spend an unexpected $144k on long term care is not such a big deal. What you might want to protect against is a ...