Search found 9891 matches

by tadamsmar
Sat Mar 02, 2024 6:57 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

What I want to do is to name a beneficiary, Joe Blow, for instance, and have his portion go to his heirs per stirpes if he predeceases me. I want to designate him "Joe Blow per stirpes". How does that violate the definition of "per stirpes"? Fidelity, for instance, lets me and everybody else do it. This is about a Vanguard policy, not the definition of "per stirpes". The only Vanguard problem is that Vanguard customer service has proven to be a random answer generator when asked what the policy is. From what is being said here, I guess I have problems with my beneficiaries, per stirpes. The easy solution is IF Joe Blow predeceases you, go back to the beneficiary form and remove Joe Blow and add the per stirpes...
by tadamsmar
Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:34 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

I can log on. Things appear to be back to normal for me.
by tadamsmar
Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:50 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

What I want to do is to name a beneficiary, Joe Blow, for instance, and have his portion go to his heirs per stirpes if he predeceases me. I want to designate him "Joe Blow per stirpes". How does that violate the definition of "per stirpes"? Fidelity, for instance, lets me and everybody else do it. This is about a Vanguard policy, not the definition of "per stirpes". The only Vanguard problem is that Vanguard customer service has proven to be a random answer generator when asked what the policy is. From what is being said here, I guess I have problems with my beneficiaries, per stirpes. The easy solution is IF Joe Blow predeceases you, go back to the beneficiary form and remove Joe Blow and add the per stirpes...
by tadamsmar
Thu Feb 22, 2024 11:06 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

Lee_WSP wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:55 am
tadamsmar wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:43 am
ResearchMed wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:34 am
I don't know, and I've only ever heard it used when there are only lineal descendants, and no one else in the link.

RM
It only used for lineal descendants which includes your adopted children.

But that's not my question. My question is "Lineal descendants from whom? From the beneficiary or from the testator?"
If your state includes adopted children as your descendants, then my descendants per stirpes works. If not, you need to figure something else out if you want to be extra sure.
"my descendants, per stirpes" does not include non-adopted step-children. So I need to do something else. I have to specify the beneficiary's descendants, per stirpes. That is what my lawyer did in my will.
by tadamsmar
Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:47 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

... Suppose my will says "25% to Joe Blow, per stirpes". No good lawyer in NC would use that language to make Joe Blow the root for fear that the courts would say that I am the root. If Joe Blow is not my descendant, then his descendants are not my descendants. I'm not sure what "Joe Blow, per stirpes" means. Lawyers often draft things that aren't clear. Fortunately, the North Carolina court has some experience in this. You could, however, say "25% to Joe Blow, if he survives me, or if not then to such of his issue as shall survive me, per stirpes." Or you could say if Joe doesn't survive me, it's divided into equal shares, one equal share to each of Joe's children who survives me, and one equal share per stir...
by tadamsmar
Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:43 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

ResearchMed wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:34 am
I don't know, and I've only ever heard it used when there are only lineal descendants, and no one else in the link.

RM
It is only used for lineal descendants which includes adopted children.

But that's not my question. My question is "Lineal descendants from whom? From the beneficiary or from the testator?"
by tadamsmar
Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:00 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

So a relevant question is: Can "per stirpes" be used to designated the lineal descendants of "anyone" or does it need to involve/start with the lineal descendants of the person leaving the inheritance? I've only ever heard of per stirpes being used that latter way (the person with the money, leaving it to all of their lineal descendants and then their lineal descendants, etc.). Again, any attorneys know the answer to this? If it's not possible, then Vanguard is off the hook. If it IS possible, that does *not* mean that Vanguard can be convinced to do it. (Remember, Vanguard still doesn't like to abide by the PA law about accepting outside POA/DPOA forms, and I think that law is now something close to 10 years old.) RM I...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 1:55 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

Here’s the cold hard truth about that per stirpes designation. Per stirpes is a class. It is an open class until the person dies. But who the **** determines who that person’s issue is? Well, it most certainly isn’t going to the bank, they want nothing to do with that liability. So, you’re stuck with the probate court, which was exactly what you wanted to avoid in the first place. It might be worse than that: "By signing below, you: • Agree that Fidelity has no obligation to locate or notify any beneficiary or to independently verify any information submitted by any person claiming an interest in your account." https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/customer-service/beneficiaries-ira-hsa.pdf Not really...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:17 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

Here’s the cold hard truth about that per stirpes designation. Per stirpes is a class. It is an open class until the person dies. But who the **** determines who that person’s issue is? Well, it most certainly isn’t going to the bank, they want nothing to do with that liability. So, you’re stuck with the probate court, which was exactly what you wanted to avoid in the first place. It might be worse than that: "By signing below, you: • Agree that Fidelity has no obligation to locate or notify any beneficiary or to independently verify any information submitted by any person claiming an interest in your account." https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/customer-service/beneficiaries-ira-hsa.pdf Not really...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:45 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

Lee_WSP wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:02 pm Here’s the cold hard truth about that per stirpes designation. Per stirpes is a class. It is an open class until the person dies. But who the **** determines who that person’s issue is? Well, it most certainly isn’t going to the bank, they want nothing to do with that liability. So, you’re stuck with the probate court, which was exactly what you wanted to avoid in the first place.
It might be worse than that:

"By signing below, you:
• Agree that Fidelity has no obligation
to locate or notify any beneficiary or to
independently verify any information
submitted by any person claiming an
interest in your account."

https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060 ... ra-hsa.pdf
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:36 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

rkhusky wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:21 am And what happens to Joe Blow’s percentage if the checkbox is not checked? If it doesn’t go to Joe Blow’s estate, is it divided amongst the other beneficiaries or does it bounce back to your estate?
I would guess that is it divided amongst the other beneficiaries, but you'd have to ask Fidelity.
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:13 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

So, the percentage doesn’t hold if the beneficiary is deceased and the checkbox is unchecked? The checkbox determines whether the descendants get anything, not just whether it’s per stirpes or per capita? Do you understand a predeceased beneficiary gets nothing under per capita? I was talking about a predeceased beneficiary’s children. The per stirpes checkbox applies to the beneficiary’s descendants, not to the beneficiary. The form says "If you outlive a beneficiary and you want that beneficiary’s share to go to his or her descendants, check “Per stirpes.”. Therefore, if you don't check the box you don't want the predeceased beneficiary's descendants to get the beneficiary's share. What if you want the money to go to the estate or g...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:03 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

That’s true. And I suppose that if per stirpes isn’t checked, then the percentage would just go to Joe Blow’s estate to be divided by other means. The form does not say what happens in that specific case. If all the beneficiaries are dead and none have per stirpes checked, then the funds do not go to Joe Blow's estate. They either go to your spouse or your estate. Read the fine print. So, the percentage doesn’t hold if the beneficiary is deceased and the checkbox is unchecked? The checkbox determines whether the descendants get anything, not just whether it’s per stirpes or per capita? Do you understand a predeceased beneficiary gets nothing under per capita? I was talking about a predeceased beneficiary’s children. The per stirpes checkbo...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:55 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

I note that there is a third designation “by representation” that means, for example, if two children predecease, then their shares are evenly divided by their children (decedent’s grandchildren). With per stirpes, the grandchildren from a larger family would get a smaller share than the grandchildren from a smaller family, but with by representation they would get equal shares. This is probably more in keeping with what I would want, but neither Fidelity or Vanguard appear to offer that option. In one of Vanguard's many seemingly contradictory definitions of "per stirpes" there is one that uses by representation in a special case: If all of your children die before you, their surviving descendants (your grandchildren) will recei...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:51 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

If you have multiple beneficiaries and Joe Blow dies before you, could one of the primary beneficiaries challenge the giving of inheritance to Joe Blow’s descendants on the grounds that per stirpes wasn’t designated for the whole group of primary beneficiaries, but only to the descendants of the primary beneficiaries? Percentages were defined for each of the primary beneficiaries. That’s true. And I suppose that if per stirpes isn’t checked, then the percentage would just go to Joe Blow’s estate to be divided by other means. The form does not say what happens in that specific case. If all the beneficiaries are dead and none have per stirpes checked, then the funds do not go to Joe Blow's estate. They either go to your spouse or your estate...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:40 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

I note that there is a third designation “by representation” that means, for example, if two children predecease, then their shares are evenly divided by their children (decedent’s grandchildren). With per stirpes, the grandchildren from a larger family would get a smaller share than the grandchildren from a smaller family, but with by representation they would get equal shares. This is probably more in keeping with what I would want, but neither Fidelity or Vanguard appear to offer that option. In one of Vanguard's many seemingly contradictory definitions of "per stirpes" there is one that uses by representation in a special case: If all of your children die before you, their surviving descendants (your grandchildren) will recei...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:30 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

If you have multiple beneficiaries and Joe Blow dies before you, could one of the primary beneficiaries challenge the giving of inheritance to Joe Blow’s descendants on the grounds that per stirpes wasn’t designated for the whole group of primary beneficiaries, but only to the descendants of the primary beneficiaries? Percentages were defined for each of the primary beneficiaries. That’s true. And I suppose that if per stirpes isn’t checked, then the percentage would just go to Joe Blow’s estate to be divided by other means. The form does not say what happens in that specific case. If all the beneficiaries are dead and none have per stirpes checked, then the funds do not go to Joe Blow's estate. They either go to your spouse or your estate...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:14 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

... What I want to do is to name a beneficiary, Joe Blow, for instance, and have his portion go to his heirs per stirpes if he predeceases me. I want to designate him "Joe Blow per stirpes". ... What does "Joe Blow per stirpes" mean? Do you mean Joe Blow, if he survives me, or if not, then Joe Blow's issue who survive me, per stirpes? Quoting Vanguard from the OP: "With a per stirpes designation, if one of your beneficiaries is deceased, their portion will go to their surviving children." https://investor.vanguard.com/investor-resources-education/article/tips-to-successfully-transfer-your-wealth With a per stirpes designation, if Joe Blow is deceased, Joe's portion will go to Joe's surviving children. That's f...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:53 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

Fidelity's form is OK with me. If I designate Joe Blow and checked per stirpes then the class would be Joe Blow's descendents. The details of how the shares would be defined among the class do seem to be state-dependent, but I am not even sure the state gets to define it for IRAs. But that designation seems to only apply to Joe Blow’s descendants and not to Joe Blow himself, since the per stirpes designation is not applied to the whole group of primary beneficiaries. There is also this text on the form that would seem to cover that: “If you outlive a beneficiary and you want that beneficiary’s share to go to his or her descendants, check “Per stirpes.”” But that seems wishy-washy and redefines what per stirpes means, since you can apply th...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:27 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

Here are a couple articles that discuss the correct way to use per stirpes: https://greenleaftrust.com/missives/per-stirpes-its-not-as-simple-as-you-thought/ https://info.wealthcounsel.com/blog/per-stirpes-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly Appears that Fidelity might be using per stirpes incorrectly. Perhaps Vanguard is protecting folks from potential problems. Also might want to check to see if your state interprets per stirpes the way you think it should. https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/customer-service/beneficiaries-ira-hsa.pdf I found this 2019 court case in my state: https://farmlaw.ces.ncsu.edu/2019/10/wills-nc-court-of-appeals-interprets-per-stirpes-testamentary-intent The plaintiff argued that Joe Blo...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:08 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

Here are a couple articles that discuss the correct way to use per stirpes: https://greenleaftrust.com/missives/per-stirpes-its-not-as-simple-as-you-thought/ https://info.wealthcounsel.com/blog/per-stirpes-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly Appears that Fidelity might be using per stirpes incorrectly. Perhaps Vanguard is protecting folks from potential problems. Also might want to check to see if your state interprets per stirpes the way you think it should. https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/customer-service/beneficiaries-ira-hsa.pdf Thanks for those links. I am not sure if the state rules even apply to IRAs, but I went and read the language in my will in light of those rules. I am glad I used a lawyer for my wi...
by tadamsmar
Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:53 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

... What I want to do is to name a beneficiary, Joe Blow, for instance, and have his portion go to his heirs per stirpes if he predeceases me. I want to designate him "Joe Blow per stirpes". ... What does "Joe Blow per stirpes" mean? Do you mean Joe Blow, if he survives me, or if not, then Joe Blow's issue who survive me, per stirpes? Quoting Vanguard from the OP: "With a per stirpes designation, if one of your beneficiaries is deceased, their portion will go to their surviving children." https://investor.vanguard.com/investor-resources-education/article/tips-to-successfully-transfer-your-wealth With a per stirpes designation, if Joe Blow is deceased, Joe's portion will go to Joe's surviving children.
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:37 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

Put it in your will. It is generally recommended that you avoid using your estate as the beneficiary for an IRA. There is a long list of issues. I think all the issues boil down to sub-optimal tax avoidance strategies available to the beneficiaries. How about saying in your will that you want person X1 to have this portion of your IRA and person X2 to have that portion, etc and you can add per stirpes or whatever you want. Seems better than trying to shoehorn your custom wishes into a fairly rigid system. I have read that the fiduciary only has the responsibility of setting up a single inherited IRA in the name of the estate and some fiduciaries will not split it no matter what the will, executor, or beneficiaries say. I have read that a s...
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:14 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

I think the OP confused the issue by stating the individual was a step-child. It could be anyone, like a siblings, or friend, etc. They are not trying to include step-children in the lineage. They are trying to name a step-child as the beneficiary, and have the step-child's children inherit in case the step-child has passed. Should be pretty straight forward, and as mentioned above supported by all the other major brokerage. Right... I think this is part of the problem. I certainly thought OP wanted to include step children as part of the "per stirpes" group (sorry if I'm using incorrect terminology here). So I was focused on the wrong problem. So a relevant question is: Can "per stirpes" be used to designated the linea...
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:43 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

Vanguard probably doesn't want to get involved in any complicated court issues that could arise by letting people put whatever they want in some free-form beneficiary field. If you don't want the basic options that Vanguard provides, hire a lawyer to write up a legal document that fulfills your wishes. You think adding per stripes to an individual is complicated free-form issue?!? What if someone is not married, and would like the money to go to their siblings, or their nieces and nephews in the cases the siblings have predeceased? That seems like a pretty straight forward, and quite common, scenario. I think the OP confused the issue by stating the individual was a step-child. It could be anyone, like a siblings, or friend, etc. They are ...
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:37 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

bsteiner wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:10 pm Say what you want but make sure it’s clear who gets what under any reasonable contingency.
That won't work if the fiduciary won't do what you want.
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:33 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

rkhusky wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:22 pm Vanguard probably doesn't want to get involved in any complicated court issues that could arise by letting people put whatever they want in some free-form beneficiary field. If you don't want the basic options that Vanguard provides, hire a lawyer to write up a legal document that fulfills your wishes.
Yeah, and Vanguard also does not want to get into the complicated issue of having their customer service be able to state their policy! Otherwise, I would have been done with this issue years ago.
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:28 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

I'm not sure this is a "Vanguard problem". My understanding is that the legal definition of "per stirpes" includes actua lineal descendants. Perhaps an attorney could chime in here, but although biological and adopted children fit that category, I didn't think that step children or foster children are included. RM I'm not an attorney. This is from a financial firm's web site: Does Per Stirpes Include Stepchildren? No, Per Stirpes distribution does not include stepchildren unless the testator has legally adopted them. This is because stepchildren are not considered to be lineal descendants of the testator under the law. Lineal descendants, such as children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, are directly descended f...
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:19 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

But the only way to designate them "per stirpes" is apparently to use the built-in my descendants option at Vanguard. Otherwise, the default is "per capita". You can't designate a non-descendant as "per stirpes" at Vanguard. I'm not sure this is a "Vanguard problem". My understanding is that the legal definition of "per stirpes" includes actua lineal descendants. Perhaps an attorney could chime in here, but although biological and adopted children fit that category, I didn't think that step children or foster children are included. IF that is correct, then Vanguard probably cannot do what you want, meaning include step children when specifying "per stirpes". If this is important t...
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:36 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

I called Vanguard in the past and was able to have "per stirpes" added to a portion of my accounts that would go to each of my siblings, so money would go to their kids if they predeceased them. Anyway, it might be like calling an airline reservation -- someone won't be able/doesn't want to put in the effort to help, you hang up, call back and and the next person might be able to arrange what you'd like. They might have a form you can mail in as well or a letter with your account information and how you want to title and divide assets might work -- ask! Just keep notations of who helped you and what they said and try to get it in writing from them via an e-mail or letter. It should show up on your account if it goes through. Make...
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:33 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

I called Vanguard in the past and was able to have "per stirpes" added to a portion of my accounts that would go to each of my siblings, so money would go to their kids if they predeceased them. Anyway, it might be like calling an airline reservation -- someone won't be able/doesn't want to put in the effort to help, you hang up, call back and and the next person might be able to arrange what you'd like. They might have a form you can mail in as well or a letter with your account information and how you want to title and divide assets might work -- ask! Just keep notations of who helped you and what they said and try to get it in writing from them via an e-mail or letter. It should show up on your account if it goes through. Make...
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:37 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Re: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

rkhusky wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:20 pm Put it in your will.
It is generally recommended that you avoid using your estate as the beneficiary for an IRA. There is a long list of issues. I think all the issues boil down to sub-optimal tax avoidance strategies available to the beneficiaries.
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:31 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes for a Fidelity 401k
Replies: 3
Views: 642

Per stirpes for a Fidelity 401k

I have a 401K at Fidelity. I don't know if this information applies to all Fidelity 401ks. I wanted to designate my secondary beneficiaries as per stripes. These are my kids and stepkids. I ask about it using the customer service chat. I was told to add "per stirpes" to the end of their last name. I could do this online. They also suggested a trust as a good option. I was also told to send a letter to Fidelity identifying these additional descendants by full name and SSN. I don't recall if they said to include the DOB and address. All this information is required on the online form. I asked what would happen if I did not send this information and these beneficiaries just contacted Fidelity to identify themselves when they were due...
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:35 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)
Replies: 83
Views: 5197

Per stirpes and Vanguard (one more time)

I called Vanguard and they informed me that I could not add "per stirpes" to the names of my non-adopted step-kids as a beneficiary on an IRA and have it work. I have gotten contradictory information from Vanguard on this in the past, but now I am going to assume this is the last word on the matter. The only thing that I am sure works as "per stirpes" is using the built-in my descendants option. But this does not cover non-adopted step-kids. I would be leary of putting "per stirpes" on the end of any named beneficiary even if it is one of your kids, but I did not ask them specifically if that would work or not. Here is an ironic tip from Vanguard: Beneficiary designations are important Did you know you need to ...
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:14 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

UPDATE TO PRIOR POST: After a 50min wait John D. from their offshore, contracted, customer service department was very patient and gave me some very IMPORTANT information: 1. The log-in issue is a know issue since Friday and is in an "ongoing" investigation phase (whatever that means). No date/time when it might be resolved. No known workaround that he had listed other than filing a complaint. 2. 2023 TAX FORM error issue is also known and being "worked on" Many users are NOT able to access their 2023 TY 1099 and DIV forms - they are off line on the app as well. Great! I asked if Vanguard had experienced a HACK and of course being in contracted CS setting he has NO idea. The fact that Vanguard won't even bother to post ...
by tadamsmar
Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:22 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

I can now log in using the app on my iPhone. This is via my router. This is progress in the right direction.

But I can't log in via a browser on my iPhone or my desktop. After putting in my password I get a technical difficulties screen that appears to be a response from Vanguard.

I don't use a password manager or script.
by tadamsmar
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:33 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

I tried logging in on Firefox, Chrome and Edge with all of them giving me the "You can’t log in using a script" error. I cleared all cache with the same error message. I even unloaded and reloaded Chrome in its entirety with no luck. I went to my girlfriend's house and was able to log onto Vanguard on her computer! The only difference that I see is that her computer has not loaded the latest update to Windows that shows that the update was a "security update." My guess is this security update hosed the Vanguard Logon. I came back home to see if in the recovery system and go back to an earlier update but Windows 11 has the message "This option is no longer available on this PC" so I'm basically stuck where I am...
by tadamsmar
Sun Feb 18, 2024 7:52 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

ISP DNS servers are often not that great to begin with. On my Windows desktop I have a small program that lets me change the DNS server on the device. But if I wasn't so lazy I'd change it on the router and be done with it for all devices. I have been using Cloudflare (1.1.1.1) for quite a while and have had no issues. I just tried (1.1.1.1) and it did not fix my Vanguard log in problem. But, I upgraded my router while I was in there. I had been procrastinating on that, nice to have an security updates. At least now others can look elsewhere since it would appear not to be a DNS issue. I said above, this does not seem like a DNS issue. The poster is getting to Vanguard. agree; most likely culprit seems to be PW autofills. But I have never ...
by tadamsmar
Sun Feb 18, 2024 10:27 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

jebmke wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 9:47 am
ISP DNS servers are often not that great to begin with. On my Windows desktop I have a small program that lets me change the DNS server on the device. But if I wasn't so lazy I'd change it on the router and be done with it for all devices.

I have been using Cloudflare (1.1.1.1) for quite a while and have had no issues.
I just tried (1.1.1.1) and it did not fix my Vanguard log in problem.

But, I upgraded my router while I was in there. I had been procrastinating on that, nice to have a security updates.
by tadamsmar
Sun Feb 18, 2024 8:45 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

I already posted this in a reply to a reply, but I wanted everyone to notice it.

If you cannot log in via your router, then turn wifi off on your phone and try logging in via a cell tower.

This is both a way to potentially get access at home if you need it and also a diagnostic tool to narrow down the source of the problem.
by tadamsmar
Sun Feb 18, 2024 8:41 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

I get in with Brave browser. I noticed that the first page was a Vanguard notice about President's day. Your browser may be blocking a script that opens that page? I downloaded Brave and tried it. I get the same failure. Next thought. Clear the DNS cache in your PC and Router, etc. I found a way to log in from home. I just turned off wifi on one of our cell phones. I can login fine via a cell tower. This seems like an obvious thing to try, but I did not think of it for almost 2 days, but part of that time I did not suspect that the problem was due to my router or ISP. Via wifi (my router) I get a Vanguard page that says: "We're experiencing technical difficulties We apologize for the temporary inconvenience. For immediate help, contac...
by tadamsmar
Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:02 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

I get in with Brave browser. I noticed that the first page was a Vanguard notice about President's day. Your browser may be blocking a script that opens that page? I downloaded Brave and tried it. I get the same failure. Next thought. Clear the DNS cache in your PC and Router, etc. Note that it does not work via the Vanguard iPhone app either, but I get a "technical difficulties" message there when I try to log in. I swapped in my old router and I get the same "technical difficulties" message there when I try to log in. With my "new" router which I have had for at least a year, I cannot log in because when I try to get to that page, I get "We're sorry. The page you requested could not be found." So I...
by tadamsmar
Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:33 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Any studies to refute dividend yield & chill?
Replies: 161
Views: 12094

Re: Any studies to refute dividend yield & chill?

My comment was on the taxation/location and each household's strategy of dealing with those dividends - or as you say, forced sales and requirement to pay taxes on those forced sales. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53520550078_dfd63db9d1_z.jpg https://smartasset.com/taxes/dividend-tax-rate The link to the graphic also covers non-qualified dividends and their tax rates. MFJ receives the best incentive when it comes to cap gains/dividend taxes. Example articles on strategies to avoid paying taxes on qualified dividends: https://retireby40.org/pay-no-tax-dividend-income/ https://www.bankrate.com/investing/make-more-than-100k-pay-no-income-tax/ https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/capital-gains-tax/603311/want-to-pay-0-in-taxes-heres-how https...
by tadamsmar
Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:11 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

Target2019 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:01 am I get in with Brave browser.

I noticed that the first page was a Vanguard notice about President's day. Your browser may be blocking a script that opens that page?
I downloaded Brave and tried it.

I get the same failure.
by tadamsmar
Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:54 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

Sometimes this page: https://investor.vanguard.com/home?fromPage=portal Indicates "logout" in the upper right corner, indicating that I am logged in. If I click the logout, then I get the normal screen indicating that I logged out. But if I got back to the home page it still has "logout" in the corner. Doing a hard reset on the page does not fix the problem. I get a failure even if I just go to Vanguard and asked to open a new account on every device in my house. They all show me as logged in even after I hit the logout button. It has nothing to do with logging in. I even rebooted my cable modem and router since it seemed to be whole house issue. I am just going to have to wait till next Tuesday when I can call them dur...
by tadamsmar
Sat Feb 17, 2024 5:18 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

Sometimes this page:

https://investor.vanguard.com/home?fromPage=portal

Indicates "logout" in the upper right corner, indicating that I am logged in. If I click the logout, then I get the normal screen indicating that I logged out. But if I got back to the home page it still has "logout" in the corner. Doing a hard reset on the page does not fix the problem.
by tadamsmar
Sat Feb 17, 2024 5:07 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

I still cannot log in today on my desktop or iphone. I get a "We're experiencing technical difficulties" message. I am not using a script.

I have tried all the fixes that have been suggested.

But if you search "vanguard down" on the internet, I cannot see any reports of a widespread outage.
by tadamsmar
Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:55 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg

SunSeeker wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:09 pm Same here. Tried different machines and browsers. Cleared everything. Mobile app works fine though.
I can log into the mobile app but it gives an error when I tried read a message.
by tadamsmar
Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:36 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Can't Log On to Vanguard / Stop running script msg
Replies: 129
Views: 12982

Re: Cannot Login To Vanguard

I can't login, but I did not get that message.