Search found 2051 matches

by fortyofforty
Tue May 05, 2020 5:40 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why doesn’t Jim Cramer start a fund?
Replies: 26
Views: 3379

Re: Why doesn’t Jim Cramer start a fund?

There is not one stockpicker you can see on television whose advice is worth following. Watch them for entertainment. Watch them for details on specific companies (if it interests you) but don't try to invest based on what they say. (Except at least Cramer does say investors should put their first $...
by fortyofforty
Sun May 03, 2020 7:26 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: What explains the continued rise in equities?
Replies: 167
Views: 13201

Re: What explains the continued rise in equities?

The supply chain for food and every day goods was much more localized. People worked in more commodities-based positions (producing "things") instead of services that can be replaced so easily at the start of any downturn. Sure, that explains the difference in economy crashing today vs then. But he...
by fortyofforty
Fri May 01, 2020 1:38 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

The first year with complete annual data on VBTLX was 2002, so it's unlikely to give you the data you're looking for. These are all projections based solely on past performance, anyway. They're of limited value, at best, in predicting the future, which is why I never asked for "data". I just posed ...
by fortyofforty
Fri May 01, 2020 6:26 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Jack Bogle - Two Fund Portfolio
Replies: 1225
Views: 129309

Re: Jack Bogle - Two Fund Portfolio

abuss368 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:45 pm I am amazed that Total Stock and the S&P 500 have bounced back this fast!

Not sure what the future holds but we will continue to tune out noise.
And profit in many ways because of it.
by fortyofforty
Fri May 01, 2020 5:42 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Since 2002, the difference in returns between the two funds was only 11 basis points. The dollar amount is irrelevant. Vineviz was looking at spending all the dividends, not a fixed dollar amount. Were there every any capital gains generated by the Total Bond Index fund? Oh, it was just the Long Te...
by fortyofforty
Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:36 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: What explains the continued rise in equities?
Replies: 167
Views: 13201

Re: What explains the continued rise in equities?

le_sacre wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:34 pm Krugman said today it's that
  • bond yields are so poor that investors are driven to stocks
  • long term economic forecast is good enough that investors are willing to take at least some risk
Consider the source. No thanks, for me.
by fortyofforty
Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:35 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

I can't see anyway this could work. Corporate bonds are typically callable, which puts an effective cap on the upside due to falling yields (so not much roll yield). Also, most bonds are issued at par so your principal is basically guaranteed to to have a negative real return in an inflationary wor...
by fortyofforty
Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:21 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: What explains the continued rise in equities?
Replies: 167
Views: 13201

Re: What explains the continued rise in equities?

I have no idea if the recent lows will be retested. I'm pretty sure I'll be a buyer if we break into new lows - but, I wouldn't bank on it (the US markets hitting new lows in the near future). :happy "Retested?!?" Oh my word, I'm convinced the recent lows will be absolutely obliterated. Sure, nobod...
by fortyofforty
Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:19 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

What if you invest in a total bond fund? Could you live off bond dividends, and simply not worry about the prices of the underlying bonds? Anyone? I can't see anyway this could work. Corporate bonds are typically callable, which puts an effective cap on the upside due to falling yields (so not much...
by fortyofforty
Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:59 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

fortyofforty wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 pm What if you invest in a total bond fund? Could you live off bond dividends, and simply not worry about the prices of the underlying bonds?
Anyone?
by fortyofforty
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:20 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Instead, they are opposing what is mathematically inevitable: all else equal, a stock which pays a $1 dividend is worth $1 less in the moment AFTER the dividend is paid than it was in the moment BEFORE the dividend was paid. Correct. Simple math that makes sense. Absolutely. Of course, what the val...
by fortyofforty
Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:58 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: tn

hi But I'm asking you, what, as a dividend-focused investor, can I expect to get in terms of a SWR? Compared to a total return method, where we have lots of good research. if you draw no more than the dividends you're ok, no research needed you can probably even occasionally dip into the share base...
by fortyofforty
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:56 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: What explains the continued rise in equities?
Replies: 167
Views: 13201

Re: What explains the continued rise in equities?

The stock market is soaring to prevent those who jumped out near the bottom from feeling too smug. They're still holding cash and waiting for the lower lows at which time they'll pour back in.
by fortyofforty
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:54 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

What if you invest in a total bond fund? Could you live off bond dividends, and simply not worry about the prices of the underlying bonds? I'd say it's pretty much the same concept.
by fortyofforty
Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:06 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: tn

hi But I'm asking you, what, as a dividend-focused investor, can I expect to get in terms of a SWR? Compared to a total return method, where we have lots of good research. if you draw no more than the dividends you're ok, no research needed you can probably even occasionally dip into the share base...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:12 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Let's go back up a level. I want to touch on a point here in your post. When it comes to "what I can spend in retirement" we usually refer back to the various SWR studies. Using historical data, or sometimes Monte Carlo return simulations, researchers take a portfolio (say the S&P 500 and bonds), w...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:57 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?
Replies: 264
Views: 20955

Re: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?

Still not trying to call the bottom, just have a firm belief that the Market will have another leg down (minimum) before we are past this. Discussion back and forth thru short term gyrations is probably not as useful. My thesis and my point is still why someone would pay more than they would in Dec...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:54 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Like this: How does "effectively have an infinite life" equate to being "infinitely valuable"? I'm not seeing the correlation. The claim is that the company is worth $10/share today, pays out a dividend of $10 tomorrow, and is still worth $10/share on Thursday. Oh, I didn't see anyone make that cla...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:49 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

You are completely misrepresenting this. No investor wants their share price to devalue. An investor that accumulates "x" amount of shares to provide a desired dividend income from the total of those shares is also most certainly always concerned about about the future value of the share prices...i...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:34 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

I haven't read anyone claim that dividend-paying companies are "infinitely valuable", but maybe you can find an example of someone making this claim on this forum. Like this: Because a company would be assumed to effectively have an infinite life, the payment of a single dividend should not effect ...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:39 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Unfortunately, many who are very 'pro-dividend' view their wealth strictly in terms of shares owned without regard to the market price of those shares. You are completely misrepresenting this. No investor wants their share price to devalue. An investor that accumulates "x" amount of shares to provi...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:36 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

I haven't read anyone claim that dividend-paying companies are "infinitely valuable", but maybe you can find an example of someone making this claim on this forum. Like this: Because a company would be assumed to effectively have an infinite life, the payment of a single dividend should not effect ...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:05 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

The 'anti-dividend' crowd wants everyone to hate dividends as much as they do. There is no "anti-dividend" crowd, just an "anti-misinformation-about-dividends" crowd. I don't hate dividends. In a tax-advantaged account, I don't care whether companies pay a large dividend or not. In a taxable accoun...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:52 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Unfortunately, many who are very 'pro-dividend' view their wealth strictly in terms of shares owned without regard to the market price of those shares. You are completely misrepresenting this. No investor wants their share price to devalue. An investor that accumulates "x" amount of shares to provi...
by fortyofforty
Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:14 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Yes, dividends are part of the return of stocks . The other part is capital appreciation. return of stocks: actually basis, my money, all after tax. Why do I have to pay tax on my money? Isn't it a double taxation? What happens if the company dissolves and distributes what remains after meeting ext...
by fortyofforty
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:45 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

I HEREBY DECREE BY THE POWER INVESTED IN ME BY MY OWN DELUSIONS TO MAKE THIS THE LAST DIVIDEND THREAD EVER RECORDED ON THIS SITE. THANK YOU. I have seen both viewpoints over and over and over and over and there will NEVER be a meeting in the middle.IT is very similar to what goes on in a famous pla...
by fortyofforty
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:50 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

The haters always claim the method doesn't work, yet no doubt hundreds or thousands of investors live comfortably off dividends and don't look at the stock market. I don't know why you're invoking the term 'haters' here. Many, including me, have no problem at all with dividends. Where we take issue...
by fortyofforty
Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:46 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

You are presenting a list of companies that were delisted or went out of business. It was your list, etc., etc. So, the question as you posed it is are you better off having owned a company that went out of business having received at least some earnings back as dividend payments, or nothing? You c...
by fortyofforty
Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:02 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Enron, Sears, Washington Mutual, etc., etc. Dividends were cut back in the financial crisis. If they were cut again from current levels and retirees were only spending dividends, their withdrawal rate could fall to below 2%. :? Of course, those who received dividend payments from stocks of companie...
by fortyofforty
Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:57 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Without reviewing the entire thread, I assume it was pointed out earlier that at some point if a stock price sinks enough and reflects a financially impaired company, the dividend will eventually be cut. This will happen to an individual stock in either bull or bear markets, but is more likely in b...
by fortyofforty
Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:54 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Without reviewing the entire thread, I assume it was pointed out earlier that at some point if a stock price sinks enough and reflects a financially impaired company, the dividend will eventually be cut. This will happen to an individual stock in either bull or bear markets, but is more likely in b...
by fortyofforty
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:16 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Interesting article in the South China Morning Post about HSBC's dividend. Dividend Halt Puts HSBC at Risk of Losing Core Investors HSBC Holdings Plc’s dividend suspension threatens to cost the lender some of its core investor appeal in Hong Kong. Payouts have been an important reason to own HSBC s...
by fortyofforty
Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:45 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

One thing about dividends is that you can't fake 'em for very long. Cooked books and accounting tricks are soon exposed to the light of day, with the resultant market (or regulatory) reaction.
by fortyofforty
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:56 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

What if a bunch of companies cut dividends? Your investment plan, which was built on a foundation of sand, collapses. Since you'd already have planned on this eventuality, you'd be able to modify your lifestyle and cut back on frivolous purchases. Or dip into that emergency fund you'd been accumula...
by fortyofforty
Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:20 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Spending only dividends allows investors to do several things. First, they never have to worry that they will choose the wrong stocks to sell, or the wrong moment at which to do so. The decision is made for them. Second, the dividend amounts are chosen for them. Investors do not have to decide thems...
by fortyofforty
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:23 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

So consider my response in light of what I think is your/vineviz's/others' point (among many), that after the payment of a cash dividend, the value of the shares in a company must fall. I do not believe that is accurate, for the reasons I stated above. If you believe that the shares of a company do...
by fortyofforty
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:12 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?
Replies: 264
Views: 20955

Re: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?

Though nigel-ht posted here regularly through all of February, the first post on the pandemic that I can find is this one: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5046068#p5046068 Note that this post is a month after the news articles being referenced should have made it blindingly obvious...
by fortyofforty
Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:33 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?
Replies: 264
Views: 20955

Re: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?

His implication is that you never have any advantage over the market and yet many folks looked at the obvious information being written on the NYT and made decisions that saved them money. Whether the market knew and ignored it or didn't know is the same outcome. You don't have to act on informatio...
by fortyofforty
Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:49 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"
Replies: 536
Views: 36150

Re: Is this right? "if you live off dividends, a crash in stocks prices doesn't matter"

Here's the best way that I can think of to describe why dividends are not 'free money'. Imagine that you are the sole owner of a business that has $10,000 in its checking account. You transfer that $10,000 into your personal checking account. Has your net worth increased at all? No, because you own...
by fortyofforty
Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:41 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?
Replies: 264
Views: 20955

Re: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?

His implication is that you never have any advantage over the market and yet many folks looked at the obvious information being written on the NYT and made decisions that saved them money. Whether the market knew and ignored it or didn't know is the same outcome. You don't have to act on informatio...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:14 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?
Replies: 264
Views: 20955

Re: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?

You literally wrote "You are still not facing the fact that the market is forward-looking and knows everything about the economy that you do ." Just wanted to point out that there is a huge difference between "knows everything about the economy" and "knows everything about the economy that you do "...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:10 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?
Replies: 264
Views: 20955

Re: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?

Also, trying to time the market is a loser's game. If you believe, emotionally, that this is just the beginning of an ever greater downturn, then react accordingly. I don't know. I know I don't know. So I follow the course I set, and don't try to change course in the middle of a hurricane. Staying ...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:11 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?
Replies: 264
Views: 20955

Re: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?

No need to flame you. I will simply point out the obvious: if you have a set asset allocation, it should be the same allocation in December 2018, December 2019 and December 2020. Rebalance. Just rebalance. No need to overreact, or react with emotion to what should be a logical plan. Also, trying to...
by fortyofforty
Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:54 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?
Replies: 264
Views: 20955

Re: Are we better off now than Dec 2018?

To the market timers, I have one request: please post here on this forum when you decide it's time to get back in, that way your timing can be independently evaluated. Best of luck!
by fortyofforty
Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:38 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Three-Fund Portfolio
Replies: 2989
Views: 1906839

Re: The Three-Fund Portfolio

The ultimate in simplicity and diversification. VT + BNDW is a good one too. More diverse. Hard to get more diverse than that combination, for sure. S&P 500 plus short term treasuries or total bond is good enough. Sure it is. Just not the most "diverse". Diversity is overrated, by some posters here...
by fortyofforty
Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:05 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Three-Fund Portfolio
Replies: 2989
Views: 1906839

Re: The Three-Fund Portfolio

The Three Fund Portfolio is an excellent choice. Tune out the noise and stay the course. I'm unclear why it's better than making a 2 fund with VT + BND. The ultimate in simplicity and diversification. VT + BNDW is a good one too. More diverse. Hard to get more diverse than that combination, for sur...
by fortyofforty
Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:55 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Mr.Random Walk
Replies: 25
Views: 2760

Re: Mr.Random Walk

If you're not happy to invest in a broad market index, don't... but you should be aware there is significant disagreement about what is concerning with regards to companies that some regard to be a public safety or environmental issue. Absolutely agree. I can guarantee that I would disagree with wh...
by fortyofforty
Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:53 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Jack Bogle - Two Fund Portfolio
Replies: 1225
Views: 129309

Re: Jack Bogle - Two Fund Portfolio

Thank you abuss368, thank you Taylor, and thank you Jack Bogle, for pointing us to that plateau that lies slightly above halfway up the mountain. Two Fund. Three Fund. Four Fund. It's a three-horse race, and you'll finish in the money betting on any one of them.
by fortyofforty
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:59 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Three-Fund Portfolio
Replies: 2989
Views: 1906839

Re: The Three-Fund Portfolio

The Three Fund Portfolio is an excellent choice. Tune out the noise and stay the course. I'm unclear why it's better than making a 2 fund with VT + BND. The ultimate in simplicity and diversification. VT + BNDW is a good one too. More diverse. Hard to get more diverse than that combination, for sure.
by fortyofforty
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:38 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Jack Bogle - Two Fund Portfolio
Replies: 1225
Views: 129309

Re: Jack Bogle - Two Fund Portfolio

I still haven't found anyone in the Two Fund crowd using the term "dangerous" but that was just a quick search. One side is clearly tolerant of all opinions on the matter, while the other claims only one way is "right" and anything else is "dangerous". Sadly. I would agree that the term "dangerous"...