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Is there any income rider out there where the death benefit isn’t reduced by withdrawals/income? I don’t think so. I’m pretty sure you got the correct info above. I know Jackson has one, so I suspect there are others. Have your cake and eat it too. Take your withdrawals, and have all of them paid to the beneficiary too. That’s not possible without a much lower death benefit or withdrawal rate. How come you didn’t mention that? The death benefit in that example is the total investment. Invest a million, withdraw 900k then die, beneficiary gets a million. As long as there's a dollar in the account, the total investment is paid to beneficiary. It's a popular option for IRA's (again, there can be valid reasons to have an annuity inside an IRA)...

David Jay wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:51 pm

Bimmer wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:58 pmAll three annuities are in IRA's...

Yikes!

There is no practical value to a VA inside an IRA, so your parents are paying fees for no substantive benefit. Take the $304,000, roll it over into a brokerage IRA and get the heck away from these people and the 1% AUM that they are paying to be put in VAs inside of IRAs.

If there is value to any of the benefits and riders of a VA, that same value applies inside an IRA. You're not buying that VA just for the tax deferral

Rex66 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:38 pm Is there any income rider out there where the death benefit isn’t reduced by withdrawals/income? I don’t think so. I’m pretty sure you got the correct info above.

I know Jackson has one, so I suspect there are others. Have your cake and eat it too. Take your withdrawals, and have all of them paid to the beneficiary too.

Thanks, I have started to look into that and research it. Have never heard about it. Curious if their software also factors in Disability Insurance It does not. Unlike life insurance, I think there's usually a limit on how much you can buy, anyway. DI underwriters don't want to create an incentive to not work. Personally, I think buying it privately is good because you can keep it as you change employers. You might not pass a medical exam if you need to buy it in the future. Maxifiplanner require an adjustment in how you think about long-term financial planning. I get it and like it, but I'm retired. It's also very useful to those approaching retirement. I might be less comfortable as a much younger person basing my spending decisions toda...

What about the money market funds? How long before a redemption hits your checking account?

If you disclose this request for testing, the insurer will ask the reason and postpone any application until results are known. If you don't disclose the pending test, that would be lying on the app. You're kinda stuck.

Be that as it may, term insurance is not available under age 18. Whole life or universal would be available for a reasonable maximum amount. Some states require the parents to have a certain multiple, like 5x what the child has.

Separate from the insurance issue, why aren't you asking the doctor the reason for the test?

climber2020 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:03 pm

YERER01 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:26 pm 3/ Expedite the FI date (my thinking.) I am thinking this because of my (irrational?) desire for my spouse to not have to worry about work and become a fulltime parent.

From a purely financial point of view, with this option you're worth more dead than you are alive.

As long as you trust your spouse, it should be fine.

Trust me, underwriters will not issue so much coverage that you're worth more dead than alive.

Others, especially high earners, take a different view. Their future income is typically their largest asset. Death instantly eliminates that asset. Term insurance is dirt cheap. If they can cheaply insure their largest asset, why would they not insure its full value?

Tell me about PODS. Pros, cons, cost, experience, etc.

Insurance agents should be encouraged to post, not shunned. Like it or not, they are actual experts on the subject.

I have served twice, enjoyed the experience and would be happy to serve again. However, I must admit, I ignored a subpoena for federal grand jury about 20 years ago. Court was an hour away, plus considerable cost for the commute. I figured I'll just play dumb, saying I never got the subpoena.

I will be moving to another state later this year. I expect to be summoned right after I get my license.

My parents are considering cashing out an annuity and using those funds to purchase a CD with a higher yield. The annuity is yielding 3.5% while the CD they are considering has a 5% yield. The annuity doesn’t have any surrender fees but they will be paying tax on the interest it has made over the years. The total value of the annuity is $350k. Around $300k is principle and $50k is interest earned. They aren’t going to take any withdrawals from their IRA’s this year. They are 69 so no RMD’s yet. They are frugal and they have everything paid off. They are planning on living on social security alone which is around 50k a year. So they will be in a lower tax bracket. I’m assuming CD’s prob won’t pay 5% say 2-3 years from now (probably less). 1...

Hell yeah. Moved to my .33 acre house 25 years ago, mowed it myself one time, and said never again. Hired a crew the next day and never looked back. For me, money well spent.

AIG did change rates last week. If you already applied, you would get the old rates. That would explain the discrepancy on the rate for her. But for him, the rate is significantly higher than the number you gave. What's his month and year of birth?

What if you are not FI in 15 years? Maybe you should consider 20 year term.

I am in the business. I run a wholesale independent agency.

When pricing the car insurance also keep in mind that the cost of your umbrella policy will likely also go up a lot while you have a third car and a teenage driver. Do I really need to call my insurance company for every possible car we might buy? An alternative way to do it is to figure out which cars will be the least expensive to insure then look for those cars. They likely will not be that accurate for your specific area but you can search the internet for list of "least expensive cars to insure for a teenage driver" and find lots of lists like this one. https://www.caranddriver.com/car-insurance/a35599519/cheapest-car-to-insure-for-teenager/ Miata is cheapest to insure for teens!? That makes no sense. No backseat passengers ...

Those numbers don't match the current rates for that company. American General, though, is typically among the lowest rates.

An inforce illustration will show when it will lapse. My estimate is 5-6 years. Strong investment performance could extend that. Don't know what your allocation is.

Paying only $200, that policy will lapse in a few years. Might as well get out now.

Flamethrower. And good insurance, just in case.

Tuna1947 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:33 am I found this on the web
Corebridge Financial, the recently rebranded Life & Retirement business of AIG, has been assigned a Baa2 long-term issuer rating by Moody’s, and has had the A2 insurance financial strength ratings of its life insurance subsidiaries affirmed, with all ratings carrying a stable outlook.

So I don’t understand. They are not on a A company.
Again, what am I missing? If they fail . I have for a less than A quality company, right?

You're missing the fact that there are multiple ratings agencies with different scales and different types of ratings. An issuer rating from Moody's is not the same thing as a financial strength rating from AM Best.

Boglelicious123 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:33 am Thanks for the replies everyone! My first instinct was “why haven’t I heard of an IUL before? This must be a scam”

I guess it kind of is. I’ll stick with the 529

IUL is not a scam, just a very complex product with major pitfalls. And more importantly, a completely inappropriate vehicle for your need.

Tuna1947 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:42 am I’m not sure what to do with my new Myga . I just purchased a ten-year MIG from AIG for 5.15%. It is A company AIG is American general life insurance company. The problem I have is that AIG life and retirement will be known as corebrige financial. I have 10 days to decide if I want to keep this policy and I’m a little bit reluctant because now I am not sure what the rating of this company is looking at some of the statistics short term it’s OK but long-term it does not look OK. Any suggestions, or am I missing something? I bought this on blue print. They still rate AIG as A.

It's a name change. Same company.

I can't think of a worse way to save for college than IUL.

Wanted to post an update on this. Thanks to advice and education from you all (stinky in particular) - I've finally worked through moving all these annuities into Fidelity Personal Annuity (FPRA)! It's taken about two months with multiple calls to Fidelity and Lincoln/Brighthouse but everything is now in a money market fund within the FPRA. Apparently, it has to be held for 30 days in the money market before I can reallocate it to other investment options. (By state law: wasn't aware of this so wanted to share with others who are doing this). Based on my reading of stinky's posts on this, I realize that fixed income (FBIQC probably) is probably the better investment choice within this FPRA because of the lower capital gains rate but had a ...

2fastenercats wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:40 am

Chardo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:39 am Treasury money market funds are paying around 4.5% right now, zero risk, totally liquid.

Is there a risk with buying U.S. Treasury products because of the debt ceiling defaulting?

Perhaps, albeit microscopically slim. Though if that were to happen, the entire world economy would be chaos, and every investment would suffer. Money market fund managers should be taking steps to mitigate that risk.

Treasury money market funds are paying around 4.5% right now, zero risk, totally liquid.

My 89-year-old Dad’s Voya - Reliastar (originally United Services Life) “Flexible Premium Adjustable” life insurance policy is lapsing 3/11. He has been paying annual premiums of $2179 for 30 years, with a paltry death benefit of $76k. I contacted the agent listed on the notice, and learned that in order to keep his policy in force, he has to pay a lapse pending deposit of $2430 by March 11, plus a new annual premium of $10,733! A second option is to reduce the death benefit to 64k, pay the lapse deposit of $2430 and an annual premium of $6487. Clearly he didn’t understand the policy and I didn’t know about it. My Dad believed he could continue to pay his regular annual premium until age 95, when the policy matures. Sadly his agent actuall...

Forget what he has paid over the years. That is sunk cost, irrelevant to today's decision. It's now a $76k policy with a $10,733 annual premium, that ends and becomes worthless in 6 years (unless there is a maturity extension provision, which is unlikely). Does that represent good value to you? Is that an investment you would make?

FreddieFIRE wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:01 pm Decedent?

Creamy and luxurious.

Index universal life (IUL) is life insurance, not an annuity.

If buying a house in a new construction neighborhood, what is the risk or necessity of an owner's title policy? Wouldn't any liability be on the part of the the developer?

Thanks for the responses. I am convinced I should do at least $1.5M for each for 25 years. That is actually in line with NPV of our income and what I am leaning towards. Possibly 30 years and a little more on my policy, but I am trying to be reasonable with the expense. I will make it work budget wise, but I am looking at $550 range per month including both DI which is more than I anticipated, but I was warned it was pricey. Any input on the DI quotes? Does anything seem not necessary? I would rather be assured, but I am also just learning about all of this as well. Or is anything missing that I should look into? I ran it at 100k income for me. Last 2 years I have made $88k with less hours from having kids. 3 years ago 92k during covid and...

Appreciate the responses so far, especially those helping me solve my fun math exercise, thank you. Obviously, if you couldn't tell by now, I'm interested in the math and am learning stuff in the process, which is always fun for someone my age. So I found a bunch of 2017 CSO tables from the Society of Actuaries. Within them I suspect I can find the most appropriate number for the probability of death in the next year, which dividing by 2 seems like a close enough approximation. I'm unsure of how to use these table in pursuit of that number. The most recent ones are from 2017 which seems close enough. I'm struggling a bit to understand terminology, if anyone can help, I'd appreciate it. 1) Which one of these mortality tables makes the most ...

sport wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:46 pm

Chardo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:43 pm

sport wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:39 pm Vanguard MM funds calculate a dividend daily and pay it monthly. You can set that to be reinvested or paid to you.

What if you withdraw or even liquidate during the month?

If you withdraw, the interest calculated daily is paid in the end-of-month dividend. If you liquidate the entire amount, the daily interest is added to your liquidation, or remains in the account if you did not specify to "sell all" instead of a specific amount.

Good to know. I'm about to park a million dollars there for a few months. Want be be sure I don't lose any interest when I withdraw.

sport wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:39 pm Vanguard MM funds calculate a dividend daily and pay it monthly. You can set that to be reinvested or paid to you.

What if you withdraw or even liquidate during the month?

You can transfer the death benefit to any inherited IRA. Does not have to be an annuity.

Posting here to see if I am misunderstanding anything - I have a 3 year MYGA with Oxford Life (purchased through Blue Print); Oxford Life has it titled as a multi-year guarantee deferred 3 year annuity - this is a TAXABLE account. The policy comes due this July and I am under 59.5 years of age. I read the entire policy and called Oxford Life on what the process is and if there are any penalties if I withdraw all of my funds at the end of the 3 year term. Their response was there is a 30 day window at the policy maturity date to complete a full withdrawal and there would be no penalties. I asked what happens if I'm under 59.5, they said there is no age related penalty. Who assesses the 10% withdrawal penalty (or how is it assessed) I keep r...

Um, are you all sure the death benefit is such a good idea after tax? Some of these are required to be taken as a lump sum upon death, and it's not at all clear they can be rolled over into a survivor IRA...meaning a big pop in income tax in a single year. What set of circumstances would preclude this IRA from being rolled into a survivor IRA upon the death of the IRA owner? After all, this is just an IRA that happens to be an annuity. I would think that normal IRA rules would apply. Presuming the funds can go into a survivor IRA, it seems to me that the survivor IRA owner can figure out the most tax-efficient way to withdraw the funds. The normal IRA rules may not apply if the death benefit is a contractual payout directly to the benefici...

Have to agree with Stinky, which is why I asked about the age. That death benefit is way higher than the surrender value, and continues to grow on a guaranteed basis. It is by far the most lucrative aspect of that annuity at this time. Put it in a drawer and wait for a death claim.

MarcNYC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 4:35 pm

Chardo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:28 pm 4% is not favorable? Sounds pretty favorable to me. Is your IRA earning more than 4%?

If my IRA were growing lately by more than 4%, then a 4% car loan interest rate would seem favorable. Today, a 1% interest rate would be more favorable. Am I wrong?

If your IRA is not growing by more than 4%, then you're not spending enough time on these boards.

Timely thread! I am entering the final year of a 10-year level term policy (also with IEEE). The quarterly premium is $400 for $1M coverage (500K for me and 500K for DW). We are in good health, comfortable financially, and kids are independent now. I've decided to discontinue it (by simply not making any further premium payments) and save about a grand. I do have some free "basic" life insurance through my employer. Haven't done the detailed EV analysis proposed in this thread. Relatedly: I see ads from companies (Coventry, Ovid) offering to buy the remainder of one's policy (even term life). Curious how that even works... If you are older or have conditions with reduced life expectancy, and you have a permanent policy or a term ...

4% is not favorable? Sounds pretty favorable to me. Is your IRA earning more than 4%?

KRP wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:15 pm

Buffetologist wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:33 pm I am 60 and have Group Term Life Insurance.

It sounds like you have Group Life Insurance, not Group Term Life Insurance, given you are being subjected to price increases.

Term Life Insurance has a fixed price for a fixed term and is typically cancelled by the policy holder at term expiration if in good health.

Group term insurance commonly increases premium in 5 year brackets. Group term rarely consists of fixed price and extended fixed term like individual policies.

How old is the annuitant? The death benefit is 120k more than the surrender value.

Rex66 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:36 pm The easiest way to know it’s not a good investment is to try to sell it to one of the groups who buy old policies.


You will find in this case that while at first they seem interested that the final decision will be no they will not purchase it.

Not a bad idea in theory, but they don't buy group term policies with no conversion option. And they generally don't buy policies on healthy 60 year olds.

afan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:35 am

Buffetologist wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:05 am [
It's group life from a professional society (IEEE), the future rates are published and do go up to breathtakingly high levels. There are no conversion options, just straight term.

Ah. You are an engineer. You will enjoy the exercise.

Look up the age-specific survival tables, input the insurance premiums, pick a discount rate and run the NPV vs, say a Treasury ladder. To be complete, do after-tax values for all cash flows. Please post back with what you find.

My son is an engineer, his mom is an actuary. Even he wouldn't waste his time on something like this.

I would say it's rather pointless to try and calculate a value based on your chance of dying in the next 6 months. Probability of a currently healthy person dying within 6 months is pretty close to zero. You buy or keep insurance because you need it. Not because it may be a statistical bargain for a black swan event.

Yes. Any annuity provider can set up your new annuity as an IRA and facilitate a direct transfer from the old account. No taxable event.

gotoparks wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:19 pm Here is a link to the Vanguard money market funds all in one place. You click the box, and it will say compare funds at the bottom. You want to look at the SEC Yield 7 days. Hover your mouse over the C and it will give a short definition. One thing to know about money market funds is they are not FDIC insured.

https://investor.vanguard.com/investmen ... ney_market

They are not FDIC insured, but the federal and treasury money market funds don't need it. They contain risk free US government securities.

If you only have risk factors, but don't actually have those conditions, then you are statistically likely to still live a long time. And that group term will continue getting increasingly more expensive. Keeping the coverage just for a potential value play makes no sense when you don't need it in the first place.