Search found 77 matches

by stingray777
Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:50 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

One last question, please. I could not find a particular format for the statement explaining this recharacterization. So will I just take a Microsoft Word document, and type up a few things that are needed, and attach to my 1040? That will work. See the examples under Reporting recharacterizations....
by stingray777
Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:39 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

One last question, please. I could not find a particular format for the statement explaining this recharacterization. So will I just take a Microsoft Word document, and type up a few things that are needed, and attach to my 1040? Here is what I see that need to be included: -Data and amount of your ...
by stingray777
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:23 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

No, I meant only recharacterize $2,450 or something like that in case there is some small thing you forgot. But I suppose it does not matter if a few dollars get put into Roth IRA at 22% instead of 12%. I think you are picking up on how taxes work pretty quickly. Are you also checking this with som...
by stingray777
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:05 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

retiredjg wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:19 am
stingray777 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:58 pm
Yes, your description is correct. It's just I think I need to recharacterize $2474.
I suggest that you do not recharacterize exactly that number. Give yourself a little buffer maybe?
Haha. I think he just meant to say to keep that amount $3525 in T-IRA.
by stingray777
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:02 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

It could be needed for two things. 1) You are supposed to notify the IRS that something was recharacterized - I think that happens on the 8606 but I am not sure. If you must use it for that, it does not mean you have to fill out the rest of the form. I need to attach a piece of paper that says 1) i...
by stingray777
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:58 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Is the following your situation? AGI without any subtraction for tIRA = $55,200 Contribution to a tIRA in 2019 = $6,000 AGI if the entire tIRA contribution is subtracted = $49,200 Standard deduction = $12,200 Taxable income if the entire tIRA contribution is subtracted = $37,000 If so, you could ha...
by stingray777
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:34 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Wait, wait...your contribution to tIRA was deductible . If you now recharacterize that to Roth, you will owe more taxes. Have you filed your taxes yet or are you still working on your taxes? No I have not file the taxes yet. The purpose is to bring my taxable income to the maximum amount of 12% bra...
by stingray777
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:23 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Is it possible they may have done a conversion instead of a recharacterization . Or maybe they actually did a recharacterization and the person you talked to does not know the difference? Or maybe you used the word "convert" when you should have said "recharacterize". Any number of things may have ...
by stingray777
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:05 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

I called Vanguard to ask for recharacterization of my IRA contribution for 2019. I was told that I needed to submit Form 8606, but to consult with my tax specialist. I don't think so. I put $6000 into my Traditional IRA in Dec of 2019, not realizing that I had to deduct my health insurance premium f...
by stingray777
Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:13 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?
Replies: 9
Views: 450

Re: Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?

I received a corrected W-2. The numbers are drastically changed on Box 12. Now it has code S with $500. This is not the amount I contributed, but I was told that this is a 1% bonus amount from the employer. Under Simple IRA, 3% is the maximum contribution, so anything above shows up here. My employ...
by stingray777
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:08 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?
Replies: 9
Views: 450

Re: Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?

So the reality is that $7182 was contributed from your earnings and $2281 was an employer contribution? Have you confirmed this with your own records? It is probably accurate but given the other oddities, I would verify this before talking to HR again. I did not really confirm it, but it is close e...
by stingray777
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:04 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?
Replies: 9
Views: 450

Re: Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?

I received a corrected W-2. The numbers are drastically changed on Box 12. Now it has code S with $500. This is not the amount I contributed, but I was told that this is a 1% bonus amount from the employer. Under Simple IRA, 3% is the maximum contribution, so anything above shows up here. My employe...
by stingray777
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:59 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?
Replies: 9
Views: 450

Re: Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?

HR is wrong, what else is new. SIMPLE IRA employee deferrals are only reported as Box 12 Code S. Employer contributions for a SIMPLE IRA plan are not reported on a W-2 anywhere. Thank you so much. How they put in my W-2 did not make sense to me even without knowing what each code means. I will go b...
by stingray777
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:47 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?
Replies: 9
Views: 450

Re: Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?

niceguy7376 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:41 pm
stingray777 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:02 pm
I got a W-2 from the employer, and I talked to the HR, but I still am not 100% convinced. So please help me out.
Do they do their own payroll internally?
It is outsourced.
by stingray777
Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:02 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?
Replies: 9
Views: 450

Wrong code and amount on W-2 for Simple IRA?

I got a W-2 from the employer, and I talked to the HR, but I still am not 100% convinced. So please help me out. This is what I have on W-2: 12a code: E 7182 12b code: S 9463 Retirement plan: X I was told by HR that code E was OK for Simple IRA, even though it is usually for 403(b) plan. I could not...
by stingray777
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:01 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: IRA contribution Question
Replies: 11
Views: 717

Re: IRA contribution Question

I called and was told that it was too late once you hit January. Too bad.
by stingray777
Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:54 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: IRA contribution Question
Replies: 11
Views: 717

Re: IRA contribution Question

I'm sorry, I was not very clear. I put $6000 out of my savings account into T-IRA in December for 2019. Can I take $3000 from it and put it into Roth IRA for 2019 even though calendar year is over? I understand that you can contribute until April. The only proper way to do this is to ask your broke...
by stingray777
Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:04 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: IRA contribution Question
Replies: 11
Views: 717

Re: IRA contribution Question

It would be great if someone can confirm it. I don't think it is possible, but... I already made my $6000 contribution out of my bank account into traditional IRA for 2019. Because the calendar year 2019 is gone, I cannot transfer $3000 into Roth IRA for 2019 any more, right? The contribution limit...
by stingray777
Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:35 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: IRA contribution Question
Replies: 11
Views: 717

Re: IRA contribution Question

It would be great if someone can confirm it. I don't think it is possible, but...

I already made my $6000 contribution out of my bank account into traditional IRA for 2019. Because the calendar year 2019 is gone, I cannot transfer $3000 into Roth IRA for 2019 any more, right?
by stingray777
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:35 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

This is a difference of risk. If your investments earn 6% per year above inflation, you will come out slightly ahead by contributing less to SS and investing the money. But you need to take a lot of risk to earn 6% above inflation; this is about the expected return of the stock market. While it has...
by stingray777
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:24 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

You are confusing SS earnings and the tax you pay on your SS earnings here. If you contribute $3550 to an HSA by payroll deduction, this reduces your "taxed Social Security earnings" by $3550. The tax savings is only $272, as you avoid paying SS and Medicare tax on that $3550. Under the current for...
by stingray777
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:16 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

In essence, my choice is between $272 now annually and $36 annually later, right? My question was for the next 20 years I will be saving $5440. With compound interest at 7%, it will grow to be almost $12K, or $600 /year. The choice is between $272 this year and $36 annually adjusted for inflation a...
by stingray777
Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:24 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Or, looking at it from the opposite direction, 20 years of not paying $272/yr = $5440 (plus whatever interest you can earn), but also means losing $720/yr in SS (plus whatever Cost Of Living Adjustments are added to the SS). And all this assumes you are between the first and second bend points in t...
by stingray777
Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:44 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

That $4200 appears in other parts of the tax code is purely a coincidence here. Calculating SS benefits includes finding the monthly average of the highest 35 years of earnings. There are 12 * 35 = 420 months in 35 years, so $4200 was used because I can divide $4200 by 420 months in my head to get ...
by stingray777
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:02 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Could you explain what just went on here? $4200 comes from withholding allowance, but no idea from there. Also, is it still best that I do not do a direct deposit? Thank you. [addition] Oh, do I need to wait until I actually start HDHP to open a HSA account? New health plan will start in January, bu...
by stingray777
Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:32 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Your Social Security benefit is determined by averaging your income over your 35 highest-earning years, adjusting for changes in average wages. But the benefit is not a fixed fraction of your income; it is 90% of the income up to the "first bend point" (which almost everyone reaches), then 32% up t...
by stingray777
Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:34 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?
Replies: 17
Views: 1521

Re: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?

Don't choose three funds for every acocunt, choose the three fund portfolio (if that is what you want) and pick the lower dollar amount TIRA or ROth to carry one of them ad the rest you do in your (eventually larger) 401k account - makes re-balancing much simpler. Side aspect, put the highest risk ...
by stingray777
Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:31 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

You are in such a rush that you are not/may not be making the best decisions. Just leave all this stuff alone for a few weeks (other than signing up to put money in the new plan when the time comes). It may take a month or two or even three for the new plan to get set up and running perfectly. Give...
by stingray777
Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:27 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

I just read that you have to be in simple ira for at least two years before you roll over to 401k. Otherwise you pay a huge anount of penalty. I am only with them for a year. Does this apply to employer's switchover to 401k? Not you switching the employer? I told the HR to put all from my next payc...
by stingray777
Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:03 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

I just read that you have to be in simple ira for at least two years before you roll over to 401k. Otherwise you pay a huge anount of penalty. I am only with them for a year. Does this apply to employer's switchover to 401k? Not you switching the employer? I told the HR to put all from my next paych...
by stingray777
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:56 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?
Replies: 17
Views: 1521

Re: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?

stingray IRS publication 17 is your everything you need to know regarding federal income taxes here is page on IRA, Pages 119-132 for calendar year 2018: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p17.pdf If you use acrobat pdf reader using the "find" function you can search the pdf for 401k as well, best the...
by stingray777
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:53 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?
Replies: 17
Views: 1521

Re: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?

@stingray777, Yes I did, and do, advocate for not bothering with bonds until you have about six figures in the portfolio, before you start to slice and dice. But since you were also running into the minimum investments issues with Vanguard (and that's the primary motivation of choosing the ETF vers...
by stingray777
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:16 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?
Replies: 17
Views: 1521

Re: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?

Are you using Lively for your HSA because is that where your employer deposits the money? Here is some thoughts. I would look and understand the fee structure and restrictions on the cash balance you need to have before making fund investments. Some are 2,000, mine was 1,000. If there are no transf...
by stingray777
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:44 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?
Replies: 17
Views: 1521

Re: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?

@stingray777, Glad my post helped. Just another suggestion, you may want to put the international stocks fund in your 401k, if you have any space left after accounting for the bonds first. This way, you CAN have everything under one umbrella at TDA. With 401k contributions, fund minimums don’t appl...
by stingray777
Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:06 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?
Replies: 17
Views: 1521

Re: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?

Just in general and to make sure: You can only contribute to an Traditional IRA OR a ROTH account, not both (technically you can, but it makes little sense other then you are in the phaseout salary range) - just making sure you realize that you can contribute 6000 USD to TIRA or Roth, not both ? I ...
by stingray777
Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:58 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?
Replies: 17
Views: 1521

Re: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?

Are you using Lively for your HSA because is that where your employer deposits the money? Here is some thoughts. I would look and understand the fee structure and restrictions on the cash balance you need to have before making fund investments. Some are 2,000, mine was 1,000. If there are no transf...
by stingray777
Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:42 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?
Replies: 17
Views: 1521

Re: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?

4. With Vanguard account or TD Ameritrade account in mind for IRA and HSA, the transaction (buying and selling Vauguard index funds such as VTSAX, VTIAX, VBMFX) itself is free. However, TDA charges 0.03 - 0.1% management fee on top of ER. Or do buying and selling transaction cost? I know nothing ab...
by stingray777
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:25 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?
Replies: 17
Views: 1521

401k, tIRA, Roth IRA, HSA --- ahhhh too many to manage!?

This my second posting, and you guys really helped me on my first post, so I decided to ask for another favor, since unfortunately I don't have any investor friend around me. I am new to investment and IRA, and I like 3-fund plan. Don't know much about ETFs, and just want to buy and forget until ret...
by stingray777
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:41 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Here's my calculation: $65,000 salary... minus $3,100 health care premiums minus $3,500 HSA minus $2,400 tIRA minus $3,500 401k minus $12,200 standard deduction gives you $40,300 taxable income which is $825 higher than the top of the 12% tax bracket. This means that $825 of your Roth IRA contribut...
by stingray777
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:11 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Whether you choose traditional or Roth for further contributions once you have contributed enough traditional to drop from A to B in the above diagram, the fact that you choose to contribute at all should serve you well in retirement. Good luck! Thank you again. This says it. What is important is t...
by stingray777
Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:32 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Your Social Security benefit is determined by averaging your income over your 35 highest-earning years, adjusting for changes in average wages. But the benefit is not a fixed fraction of your income; it is 90% of the income up to the "first bend point" (which almost everyone reaches), then 32% up t...
by stingray777
Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:24 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

At least, I think you are telling me in the second part, it is OK to use HSA to lower the taxable income, but do not do the payroll deduction. Pay more for your social security tax. Does that apply to everyone of the similar income? I will need to check if there is going to be any match from the em...
by stingray777
Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:51 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Our HR mentioned new HSA option last week, so I hope it is going to be available for 2020 for us. Did a little homework, and I have an option to put $3500 into Lively HSA account, and link it to TD Ameritrade (Believe this is the best, cheapest combo). If I go that route, then that would lower the ...
by stingray777
Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:39 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Or, perhaps keep the Roth IRA contribution constant while the 401k contribution increase matches the salary increase, until you have reached the point at which all your tax-advantaged buckets are filled and you start investing in a taxable (aka regular) brokerage account. I am losing my grip here. ...
by stingray777
Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:18 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

Is the church contribution based on gross income? Maybe you should calculate based on net income. I know how this is a sensitive topic but even if you knocked it down to 5800 or 6800 that could help you. * my church is not responsible when it comes to money, hence my mindset on contributions My chu...
by stingray777
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:31 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

@retiredjg and @ruralavalon Huge thanks again to both of you. Our HR mentioned new HSA option last week, so I hope it is going to be available for 2020 for us. Did a little homework, and I have an option to put $3500 into Lively HSA account, and link it to TD Ameritrade (Believe this is the best, ch...
by stingray777
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:07 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

....I think it's pretty clear that traditional contributions are likely better for stingray777 . I agree up to the point that Roth contributions could be made at 12%. But it appears to me that some contributions can be made to Roth IRA at 12% and that's probably the lowest this poster will ever get...
by stingray777
Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:09 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

1. OK, coins are bad idea. 2. I do not have any pension plan. I started to work here 1.5 years ago, and no pension was mentioned when started. Still debating on the asset allocation, so I need a day or two more. BIG THANKS TO ALL of you here for all the advise. What a great community here. and espec...
by stingray777
Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:07 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

My status is as follows: Emergency fund: 20K in my money market bank account (1.7% interest) Debt: None Tax Filing Status: Single Tax Rate: 22% Federal, 3% State. After retirement, expecting 12% Age: 45 Desired Asset allocation: 70% in S&P500, 20% in International stock, 10% or 0% in bond Current: N...
by stingray777
Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:40 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?
Replies: 164
Views: 13217

Re: Why Roth IRA when you have not maxed out 401k?

I got answers from the salesman today. I've got 20-page summary plan document, but have not read it. Here is the disclosure of our fees by the salesman: - Our Expense Ratio is the same as that of morningstar - Our admin cost is 0.9%. So it is not the worst, but not great. Just average. So roughly i...