Search found 584 matches

by ThrustVectoring
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:55 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: [Robinhood to launch 3% interest bearing accounts, but is not a bank]
Replies: 143
Views: 7769

Re: [Robinhood to launch 3% interest bearing accounts, but is not a bank]

Nuestroro wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:43 pm
How is this not a violation of Glass-Steagall, specifically 12 USC 378?
They're not offering the interest bearing account directly as their own offering. They are adding functionality to their web and phone applications to integrate with a partner bank who is offering those accounts.
by ThrustVectoring
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:51 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: [Robinhood to launch 3% interest bearing accounts, but is not a bank]
Replies: 143
Views: 7769

Re: 3% Interest on checking and savings account - Robinhood

I posted a longer reply in another thread, but in short, this is not a bank account nor does it have FDIC insurance. The product will invest your money in short-term, highly safe securities (US treasuries) to obtain 3%. Where would they be finding short-term highly safe securities (US treasuries) p...
by ThrustVectoring
Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:29 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: VMVFX (Global Minimum Volatility) as core equity holding. Your opinion?
Replies: 90
Views: 3667

Re: VMVFX (Global Minimum Volatility) as core equity holding. Your opinion?

Defensive stocks have done quite well over the decades. Depending on the time period, I believe the absolute returns are usually on par (and often better) than the broader market, and of course with lower volatility and drawdowns. The big outstanding question I have is how much I can trust that his...
by ThrustVectoring
Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:42 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: VMVFX (Global Minimum Volatility) as core equity holding. Your opinion?
Replies: 90
Views: 3667

Re: VMVFX (Global Minimum Volatility) as core equity holding. Your opinion?

The concept of a "Bet Against Beta" factor implies that owning more of a low-volatility fund ought to out-perform at the same level of risk. The short explanation is that a lot of investors are unwilling or unable to use leverage, so they have to overbid on high risk / high reward assets in order to...
by ThrustVectoring
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:53 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Our mentor [Jack Bogle] advises to "buy bonds" for protection in current market
Replies: 61
Views: 5769

Re: Our mentor advises to "buy bonds" for protection in current market

I'm honestly far more worried about an extended bull market that permanently destroys my purchasing power with respect to productive assets. The big risks to long-term investors have been more biased towards missing out on bull markets than getting hit by bear markets, particularly in the post-WW2 e...
by ThrustVectoring
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:12 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Portfolio for a military lifer, too conservative?!?
Replies: 20
Views: 1752

Re: Portfolio Review!!! Thanks.

Thanks for the input TV. I probably could live off the military pension alone, I think that's why I have sort of slow rolled the retirement savings. I always put away a little but not nearly as much as I should have. With that said, I would prefer not to have to be super frugal when I finally retir...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:22 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Portfolio for a military lifer, too conservative?!?
Replies: 20
Views: 1752

Re: Portfolio Review!!! Thanks.

I'd increase your retirement account contributions (her Roth IRA, TSP) before making taxable investments. So if you spend $X per month, increase your paycheck deduction until your paycheck no longer covers that $X, and keep it up until your $7k extra cash savings is all used up. And on an ongoing ba...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:34 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Could a brokerage 'cheat' its own mutual fund investors during TLH?
Replies: 7
Views: 559

Re: Could a brokerage 'cheat' its own mutual fund investors during TLH?

Mark-to-market pricing of mutual funds is subject to both routine and spot audits. They could "cheat" mutual fund investors through manipulating it, but they would be caught by the SEC and fined or shut down, so this process basically happens honestly.
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:55 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Do long-term bonds belong in one's portfolio?
Replies: 162
Views: 8019

Re: Do long-term bonds belong in one's portfolio?

For those who say to just hold more stocks, it's not good enough. Just looking at PV's EF, last 40 years using LT in a 60/40 porfolio improves IT for 1% (same risk) What about holding the same amount of stocks and more bonds of a shorter duration? Leverage is extraordinarily cheap in the highly liq...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:35 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Low need to take risk - decrease allocation to stocks?
Replies: 42
Views: 3109

Re: Low need to take risk - decrease allocation to stocks?

I have the same question as ge1. What are boglehead suggestions when several inheritances over the years (and a recent one the biggest at 7 figures) on top of my already carefully saved retirement assets have dramatically dropped my need for a lot of stocks. I'm 72, widowed long ago and no heirs ex...
by ThrustVectoring
Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:22 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Do long-term bonds belong in one's portfolio?
Replies: 162
Views: 8019

Re: Do long-term bonds belong in one's portfolio?

Given what I know of the treasury futures market, I feel like I have to be missing something for long-term bonds to make any sort of sense over levering up short-term bonds. Maybe convexity? Let's compare investment options for $100k in the 10-year cash bond vs the 2-year treasury futures contract....
by ThrustVectoring
Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:01 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Do long-term bonds belong in one's portfolio?
Replies: 162
Views: 8019

Re: Do long-term bonds belong in one's portfolio?

Yield spreads do matter, that is the bottomline. When yield curve is indicating narrow spreads between LT and IT, it doesn't pay to go long, and in fact the spread between ST and IT makes IT at the sweetspot of the yield curve. Back in the days Larry Swedroe used to advocate this point, and I agree...
by ThrustVectoring
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:52 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Low need to take risk - decrease allocation to stocks?
Replies: 42
Views: 3109

Re: Low need to take risk - decrease allocation to stocks?

Portfolio size in nominal terms isn't particularly informative without a rough estimate of annual expenses. If you're not considering retirement until at least $4m, I'm going to assume you have 3/4ths of your annual expenses covered at a 4% withdrawal rate (so roughly 19 years of expenses saved). An...
by ThrustVectoring
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:38 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Do long-term bonds belong in one's portfolio?
Replies: 162
Views: 8019

Re: Do long-term bonds belong in one's portfolio?

Given what I know of the treasury futures market, I feel like I have to be missing something for long-term bonds to make any sort of sense over levering up short-term bonds. Maybe convexity? Let's compare investment options for $100k in the 10-year cash bond vs the 2-year treasury futures contract. ...
by ThrustVectoring
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:40 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: 30 years old, 250k portfolio allocation?
Replies: 17
Views: 2217

Re: 30 years old, 250k portfolio allocation?

For example, let's say I have $11,000 to invest, and I want to put $5,500 in a bond fund (BND) and $5,500 in a stock fund (VTI). Because the max annual contribution to my Roth IRA is $5,500, my Roth IRA only has space for BND or VTI. Fifty years later, let's say VTI is now worth $500,000. BND is wo...
by ThrustVectoring
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:30 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: 30 years old, 250k portfolio allocation?
Replies: 17
Views: 2217

Re: 30 years old, 250k portfolio allocation?

(2) It can also make sense to place assets with higher expected future growth (like VTI/VXUS) in your Roth IRA to avoid paying capital gains taxes down the road. This argument has never made sense to me: the logic implies you should be putting the lower-yielding assets nowhere. Adding leverage is b...
by ThrustVectoring
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:33 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: 30 years old, 250k portfolio allocation?
Replies: 17
Views: 2217

Re: 30 years old, 250k portfolio allocation?

If you want higher returns, just add riskier bonds. Adding leverage is better than adding riskier bonds for increasing your returns (up to the Kelley limit, of course). The bond market is full of participants who want more yield but cannot use leverage to get it, so the riskier bonds have a worse r...
by ThrustVectoring
Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:29 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: 30 years old, 250k portfolio allocation?
Replies: 17
Views: 2217

Re: 30 years old, 250k portfolio allocation?

Hey all, I've recently sold nearly all my positions and consolidated my portfolio to VTI +VXUS at a 60/40 split. With 25k worth of space (~10% of portfolio) in my Roth IRA I was wondering whether I should allocate to VTI, VXUS, or a bond fund like BND? I believe that IRA's have tax advantages, so i...
by ThrustVectoring
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:24 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: (NEW) WisdomTree 90/60 U.S. Balanced Fund
Replies: 172
Views: 12288

Re: (NEW) WisdomTree 90/60 U.S. Balanced Fund

I evaluated investing in Treasury futures directly, since I don't really need a fund to do that for me. My conclusion is that buying Treasury futures provide most of the interest rate risk with only a small yield, with the yield curve as flat as it is right now. I don't think this fund should be ow...
by ThrustVectoring
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:13 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The risks of equities when saving for retirement
Replies: 38
Views: 3364

Re: The risks of equities when saving for retirement

Health issues can also be a factor. I don't think it's a good idea to ever have a plan that requires one to work until 65. This risk is highly insurable. If your plan requires you to work until age 65, you should have solid own-occupation disability insurance that replaces enough lost income should...
by ThrustVectoring
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:05 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The risks of equities when saving for retirement
Replies: 38
Views: 3364

Re: The risks of equities when saving for retirement

Well, it's not so easy. One could make a convincing argument that as long as one can tolerate stocks' volatility , investors could be 100% stocks until 20 years out from retirement, maybe even 10. This is the conclusion that Paul Merriman came to as well. A 40 year old who isn't planning on retirin...
by ThrustVectoring
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:19 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why buying homes with mortgages is good but buying stocks on margin is bad
Replies: 36
Views: 2893

Re: Why buying homes with mortgages is good but buying stocks on margin is bad

Buying a home with a mortgage is often a good idea because the imputed or actual rents offset the mortgage payments. The asset you're buying on margin acts a lot like the loan you're taking out to finance it, so the actual risk of the position is significantly lower. Any sort of offsetting position ...
by ThrustVectoring
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:07 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Tips breakevens and illiquidity premia
Replies: 65
Views: 3768

Re: Tips breakevens and illiquidity premia

I think what is happening is that there is increasing doubt that the Fed can keep inflation up to its target of 2% (PCE). The five year break-even inflation rate has dropped from 2.00% on 10/17 to 1.74% on 12/4. It would appear that concern is rising about the onset and severity of the next recessi...
by ThrustVectoring
Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:04 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: VMVFX & low volatility performance
Replies: 12
Views: 1463

Re: VMVFX & low volatility performance

Or is the outperformance Temporary? There's very good theoretical arguments to suggest that minimum volatility funds will outperform the stock market as a whole on a risk-adjusted basis. Specifically, the idea of "Bet Against Beta": high risk/reward assets are preferentially bought by investors see...
by ThrustVectoring
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:34 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why buying homes with mortgages is good but buying stocks on margin is bad
Replies: 36
Views: 2893

Re: Why buying homes with mortgages is good but buying stocks on margin is bad

Mortgage borrowing is shorting 'long term bonds' but borrowing on margin or using stock index futures is shorting 0-3mo 'bonds'. Along the riskless curve long term bonds have been a generally superior investment to overnight-3mo 'bonds'. IOW the realized term premium has generally been positive. Ma...
by ThrustVectoring
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:27 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The risks of equities when saving for retirement
Replies: 38
Views: 3364

Re: The risks of equities when saving for retirement

There's a limit on how pessimistic your future predictions can be before your plans should stop relying on market mechanisms altogether. If the 30-year real return on global cap-weighted equities is negative, that basically implies widespread societal collapse. If you think this is a real possibili...
by ThrustVectoring
Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:23 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The risks of equities when saving for retirement
Replies: 38
Views: 3364

Re: The risks of equities when saving for retirement

There's a limit on how pessimistic your future predictions can be before your plans should stop relying on market mechanisms altogether. If the 30-year real return on global cap-weighted equities is negative, that basically implies widespread societal collapse. If you think this is a real possibilit...
by ThrustVectoring
Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:16 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why buying homes with mortgages is good but buying stocks on margin is bad
Replies: 36
Views: 2893

Re: Why buying homes with mortgages is good but buying stocks on margin is bad

A 30-year fixed rate mortgage effectively shorts long-term bonds, while buying stocks on margin is borrowing at a floating rate. Long-term bonds are terrible investments, so shorting them is a fantastic choice. And as a bonus, you get an embedded call option to close out the short position via refin...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:13 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Any thoughts about defined outcome ETFs?
Replies: 11
Views: 713

Re: Any thoughts about defined outcome ETFs?

These are pretty pointless. If you want to buy downside protection for the S&P 500, the market for this is extraordinarily liquid. You just buy S&P 500 put options at the desired timeframe and strike price, and there's no shortage of sellers. That said, you have to pay for the positive skew. On ave...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:01 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Yield Curve Inversions — Any Benefit from Market Timing?
Replies: 18
Views: 1394

Re: Yield Curve Inversions — Any Benefit from Market Timing?

IMHO there's no need to do anything on the stock side based off the yield curve, not when the treasury futures market is available and so liquid. You can take out a "steepener" position (long the higher yielding short-term contract, short the lower-yielding long-term contract, at a ratio such that a...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:32 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Rules of thumb for allocation/exposure
Replies: 29
Views: 2191

Re: Rules of thumb for allocation/exposure

Age based rules are simplifications when you have to give one simple piece of advice that's taken by many different people with different retirement expenses, different amounts saved, and vastly different financial sophistication. My advice is to own zero bonds until you have at least 10 times your ...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:13 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Any thoughts about defined outcome ETFs?
Replies: 11
Views: 713

Re: Any thoughts about defined outcome ETFs?

These are pretty pointless. If you want to buy downside protection for the S&P 500, the market for this is extraordinarily liquid. You just buy S&P 500 put options at the desired timeframe and strike price, and there's no shortage of sellers. That said, you have to pay for the positive skew. On aver...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:05 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Older Dads - how do you plan for your own retirement while still raising kids?
Replies: 38
Views: 5068

Re: Older Dads - how do you plan for your own retirement while still raising kids?

A lot of child raising expenses are really not mandatory - they're more "keeping up with the Joneses" type stuff. Especially if you're living in the Bay Area in California. College expenses are the big one, but that can be planned around. Essentially, income, taxable savings and real estate will con...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:52 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: What to negotiate in offers
Replies: 45
Views: 3144

Re: What to negotiate in offers

You basically take whatever is standard for the position, especially when it's a significant pay bump for you that you don't expect other places to match. My standard advice on negotiating, in order: Ask for more time to consider the offer - you generally want at least two weeks, especially if you'r...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:36 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Local credit union offered me a $7600 credit card I spend $800 a month on a credit card is the limit high enough?
Replies: 24
Views: 1430

Re: Local credit union offered me a $7600 credit card I spend $800 a month on a credit card is the limit high enough?

Go for it. If you pay off the credit card in full each month, pretty much every card you take out will help your score eventually. What hurts your score is using "too much" of one or more revolving lines of credit, having too many accounts that are too new, and having negative information reported. ...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:57 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Is this 401k fund okay for 100% allocation?
Replies: 7
Views: 309

Re: Is this 401k fund okay for 100% allocation?

Haven't heard of it. Did some brief research, looks like it does a good job of matching the benchmark within a few basis points, so it ought to be fine. If it's another 35 basis points to get into any other fund, 100%-ing the S&P 500 is absolutely fine. There's a hell of a lot of investment strategi...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Out of Stocks to Pay Off Mortgage
Replies: 73
Views: 5028

Re: Out of Stocks to Pay Off Mortgage

This is just not correct. You don't "get an extra $45 per year until the mortgage is paid off." You realize ZERO ACTUAL savings until the mortgage is paid in full, because the payment does not change month to month or year to year. The savings is in the future, in inflated dollars, so it's actually...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:59 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Out of Stocks to Pay Off Mortgage
Replies: 73
Views: 5028

Re: Out of Stocks to Pay Off Mortgage

This is just not correct. You don't "get an extra $45 per year until the mortgage is paid off." You realize ZERO ACTUAL savings until the mortgage is paid in full, because the payment does not change month to month or year to year. The savings is in the future, in inflated dollars, so it's actually...
by ThrustVectoring
Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:17 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Out of Stocks to Pay Off Mortgage
Replies: 73
Views: 5028

Re: Out of Stocks to Pay Off Mortgage

Please post the mortgage term and how many years remaining. Without that information we have no idea how much of what you are paying each month is interest versus principal. This is crucial info to help determine if the savings is worthwhile. How many years remaining is crucial for the exact opposi...
by ThrustVectoring
Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:58 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: What is the lowest 'safe' emergency fund we should have?
Replies: 40
Views: 3856

Re: What is the lowest 'safe' emergency fund we should have?

You're young, physically healthy, have in-demand skills, have a dual income household, and have a very healthy sized taxable account. You only need as much money in your checking account as you need to ensure that you don't have to worry about NSF penalties. Skip the personal loan, always get the ch...
by ThrustVectoring
Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:22 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Out of Stocks to Pay Off Mortgage
Replies: 73
Views: 5028

Re: Out of Stocks to Pay Off Mortgage

Please post the mortgage term and how many years remaining. Without that information we have no idea how much of what you are paying each month is interest versus principal. This is crucial info to help determine if the savings is worthwhile. How many years remaining is crucial for the exact opposi...
by ThrustVectoring
Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:06 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Stock Buybacks Don't Increase Share Prices
Replies: 33
Views: 2759

Re: Stock Buybacks Don't Increase Share Prices

At least when done properly, stock buybacks do not increase share prices. The market cap goes down by the amount spent on the buyback, and the float gets decreased by the same amount. So the value per share is the same after the buyback. It is exactly the same as with a reinvested dividend (except ...
by ThrustVectoring
Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:47 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why are REITS a separate asset class but healthcare is not?
Replies: 55
Views: 3006

Re: Why are REITS a separate asset class but healthcare is not?

US real estate is very roughly worth $30 trillion, with $15 trillion in mortgages. The US stock market is also worth very roughly $30 trillion. Most real estate is privately held and thus not included in the total US stock market - it's roughly 2% REITs. There's an argument to be made that the total...
by ThrustVectoring
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:29 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How to place windfall into stocks
Replies: 6
Views: 1115

Re: How to place windfall into stocks

Roll a die. On a 1 or a 2, you successfully avoid a bear market and come out ahead. 3-6 the stock market climbs to yet new heights before you can get your money in. Do you feel lucky?
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:01 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Leverage Success Stories
Replies: 68
Views: 8266

Re: Leverage Success Stories

Here's the treasury futures curve: December March Symbol Quote Volume Symbol Quote Volume ULA18 151-140 486155 ULAH19 152-070 401120 <--- 30 year USA18 139-290 673222 USAH19 139-090 473121 <--- 20 year TYA18 119-065 2893808 TYAH19 119-025 1925526 <--- 10 year FVAZ8 112-262 2763424 FVAH19 112-250 21...
by ThrustVectoring
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:12 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Leverage Success Stories
Replies: 68
Views: 8266

Re: Leverage Success Stories

Swelfie I have read your posts with great interest in multiple threads and have pieced together some of the method you have used. But I was wondering if you were willing to write a longer post where you more explicitly lay out your investments and decision making process. Thank you QJ Having been d...
by ThrustVectoring
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:12 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in Freefall
Replies: 191
Views: 25185

Re: Bitcoin in Freefall

? *shorting* crypto would be a good hedge for Nvidia? In that Nvidia and crypto go in the same direction? Other way around, I think. Shorting Nvidia is likely one of the best plays for crypto bears. There's no good mechanism to short crypto directly without exposing yourself to massive counter-part...
by ThrustVectoring
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:57 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: % cash allocation for real-estate
Replies: 6
Views: 497

Re: % cash allocation for real-estate

Percentage-based allocation for real estate is a lot trickier than stocks and bonds. For one, transaction costs are enormous, so you don't want to be making sales and purchases regularly to keep things balanced. Also, valuation isn't as straightforward as for more liquid securities, and houses don't...
by ThrustVectoring
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:17 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: I thought rebalancing was supposed to control risk - but it hasn't since 2000
Replies: 13
Views: 2695

Re: I thought rebalancing was supposed to control risk - but it hasn't since 2000

Rebalancing stabilizes risk near a certain level, and does not allow it to fluctuate as market prices fluctuate. You picked a start date that was near a market peak, and so I suspect the rebalancing portfolios have significantly more equity exposure during the first bear market. Had you picked a sta...
by ThrustVectoring
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:13 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Munis Increasingly Risky
Replies: 94
Views: 8944

Re: Larry Swedroe: Munis Increasingly Risky

Thanks for posting this. I have invested in individual munis for many years. My recent strategy to counter the rising risk from underfunded pension obligations, etc, is to invest in AAA rated private university muni bonds like Stanford, MIT, etc. I figure the massive endowments behind these institu...