Search found 829 matches

by Lauretta
Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:27 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?
Replies: 22
Views: 1279

Re: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?

I'm curious, if you short the Euro, what currency would you be going long ? These things always trade in pairs, you have to put it in something else that you believe the thing being shorted will perform relatively worse against. Would you keep it in shorter term Euro cash? I don't understand your q...
by Lauretta
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:16 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?
Replies: 22
Views: 1279

Re: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?

I'm curious, if you short the Euro, what currency would you be going long ? These things always trade in pairs, you have to put it in something else that you believe the thing being shorted will perform relatively worse against. Would you keep it in shorter term Euro cash? I don't understand your q...
by Lauretta
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:15 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?
Replies: 22
Views: 1279

Re: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?

Also I cannot see how this would work in the context of a more or less sane portfolio. Would you hold stocks, euro bond shorts, and then other bonds? Or just stocks and euro bond shorts? Stocks, real estate, cash, assurance vie (a contract in France and Luxembourg where your capital is garanteed an...
by Lauretta
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:27 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?
Replies: 22
Views: 1279

Re: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?

You could use this ETF Amundi ETF Short Govt Bond EuroMTS Broad Investment Grade 10-15 Daily UCITS ETF I wouldn't do it Thanks! I did not know it existed. The only drawback (for what I wanted to do) is that it has broad investment grade bonds, whereas I was interested in AAA bonds, which have negat...
by Lauretta
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:27 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?
Replies: 22
Views: 1279

Re: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?

You could use this ETF Amundi ETF Short Govt Bond EuroMTS Broad Investment Grade 10-15 Daily UCITS ETF I wouldn't do it Thanks! I did not know it existed. The only drawback (for what I wanted to do) is that it has broad investment grade bonds, whereas I was interested in AAA bonds, which have negat...
by Lauretta
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:19 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?
Replies: 22
Views: 1279

Re: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?

You could use this ETF Amundi ETF Short Govt Bond EuroMTS Broad Investment Grade 10-15 Daily UCITS ETF I wouldn't do it Thanks! I did not know it existed. The only drawback (for what I wanted to do) is that it has broad investment grade bonds, whereas I was interested in AAA bonds, which have negat...
by Lauretta
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:17 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?
Replies: 22
Views: 1279

Re: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?

Most "efficient" way would be short selling a Eurobond future. They are in 100k EUR$ increments.... so that would be the smallest position you could take. You wouldn't need to post nearly that much, but would just need to prepare to fund a margin call if it went even further negative. Honestly, dow...
by Lauretta
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:54 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?
Replies: 22
Views: 1279

How would one go about shorting Eurozone bonds?

Is it possible for retail investors to short Eurozone bonds, and if so how does one go about doing it?
by Lauretta
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:14 am
Forum: Non-US Investing
Topic: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?
Replies: 28
Views: 1772

Re: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?

The interest rate suggests deflation is in prospect (signal and noise - you also have Quantitative Easing going on) and that generally is not held to be good for gold, which is thought to prosper with rising inflationary expectations. If my memory serves me well (I haven't looked at the economic li...
by Lauretta
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:48 am
Forum: Non-US Investing
Topic: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?
Replies: 28
Views: 1772

Re: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?

buylowbuyhigh wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:16 am
You could also combine this with gold by buying a bunch of jewelry now and waiting x years before gifting or starting to use them :D
that's an idea I hadn't thought of that :D
by Lauretta
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:17 am
Forum: Non-US Investing
Topic: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?
Replies: 28
Views: 1772

Re: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?

- she speculates that the yield will get even more negative, so the bonds will appreciate in value and she can sell them at a higher price (a special case of this would be the flight to safety scenario in case of a stock market crisis, and te rebalancing bonus one gets from selling bonds and buying...
by Lauretta
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:01 am
Forum: Non-US Investing
Topic: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?
Replies: 28
Views: 1772

Re: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?

- she speculates that the yield will get even more negative, so the bonds will appreciate in value and she can sell them at a higher price (a special case of this would be the flight to safety scenario in case of a stock market crisis, and te rebalancing bonus one gets from selling bonds and buying...
by Lauretta
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:07 pm
Forum: Non-US Investing
Topic: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?
Replies: 28
Views: 1772

Re: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?

I am not playing verbal games really. It seems to me that if an individual investor has the choice between a safe current account yielding say 0% and AAA 10 year bonds yielding -0.53% and she chooses the latter, she can do it only for one these 2 reasons: - she speculates that the yield will get ev...
by Lauretta
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:54 pm
Forum: Non-US Investing
Topic: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?
Replies: 28
Views: 1772

Re: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?

1) Bonds, like almost everything, can be either a speculation or an investment depending on how you use them. There's no point in playing verbal games about whether negative real or nominal return automatically disqualifies something as being "not an investment." One dictionary I checked defines in...
by Lauretta
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:46 am
Forum: Non-US Investing
Topic: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?
Replies: 28
Views: 1772

Re: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?

1) Bonds, like almost everything, can be either a speculation or an investment depending on how you use them. There's no point in playing verbal games about whether negative real or nominal return automatically disqualifies something as being "not an investment." One dictionary I checked defines in...
by Lauretta
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:16 am
Forum: Non-US Investing
Topic: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?
Replies: 28
Views: 1772

Re: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?

For the individual investor, if you believe your government can afford to bail out your bank, then 100K in Eurozone bank account looks quite attractive - generally zero interest rate. Now Intesa San Paolo has negative rates for current accounts in Italy, but yes one can find accounts with zero inte...
by Lauretta
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:33 am
Forum: Non-US Investing
Topic: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?
Replies: 28
Views: 1772

Re: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?

Yes they are a speculation similar to Dotcom stocks or Bitcoin because they need to be passed on to "greater fools". Respectable speculation. LT US bonds are nearly as bad. :D thant's a good way of putting it. Yes LT Us bonds have nominal positive yield but after inflation and taxes people probably...
by Lauretta
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:59 am
Forum: Non-US Investing
Topic: Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?
Replies: 28
Views: 1772

Is investment in Eurozone bonds really speculation? And is gold likely to be a better hedge in case of a disaster?

At present Eurozone AAA rated government bonds have negative yields for residual maturities of up to 30 years (and more) https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/financial_markets_and_interest_rates/euro_area_yield_curves/html/index.en.html For all government bonds as a whole, the yield is negative for up to...
by Lauretta
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:43 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?
Replies: 26
Views: 1648

Re: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?

PIMCO has a couple of interesting commodity funds. I have a modest stake in them, for diversification purposes, but I'm pretty skeptical they will ever amount to anything. II have found a PIMCO active fund domiciled in Ireland (PIMCO GIS Commodity Real Return Fund E Class USD Accumulation) which in...
by Lauretta
Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:38 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?
Replies: 26
Views: 1648

Re: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?

PIMCO has a couple of interesting commodity funds. I have a modest stake in them, for diversification purposes, but I'm pretty skeptical they will ever amount to anything. II have found a PIMCO active fund domiciled in Ireland (PIMCO GIS Commodity Real Return Fund E Class USD Accumulation) which in...
by Lauretta
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:02 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?
Replies: 26
Views: 1648

Re: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?

But they have a saying. "If you don't hold it, you don't own it", indicating that whatever disaster scenario you intended the gold for in your portfolio, the benefit may not come to materialize for you unless you have personal possession of it, which itself raises a number of logistical concerns. T...
by Lauretta
Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:00 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?
Replies: 26
Views: 1648

Re: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?

Most, if not all, etfs are trading at a discount or premium to their nav at any given point. "Usually", at least for the very liquid assets, it is a very small amount & documented on the web. Thank you this is interesting, do you have the website giving the premium/discounts? I did a google search ...
by Lauretta
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:39 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?
Replies: 26
Views: 1648

Re: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?

I would consider the methodology for whatever fund/etf being considered; they vary a lot. This also affects the tax considerations. I’ll use an example from the gold side. Some of the “precious metals” funds are really investing in mining companies (which have gold in reserve & mining operations – ...
by Lauretta
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:32 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?
Replies: 26
Views: 1648

Re: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?

The only thing I can say is that a fixed rate mortgage would be an excellent inflation hedge. Excellent point; here in Europe the rates are very low at present, so I might take one out for a new property (I've already paid for all the ones I have). I'll look if there are similar ETFs to the ones yo...
by Lauretta
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:41 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?
Replies: 26
Views: 1648

Re: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?

Seems like the question depends on your intended use. Are you looking for an inflation hedge, deflation hedge, etc? My understanding from some of the readings of William Bernstein is that gold itself is a good hedge in a deflationary crisis (like the 1929-1932 stock market crash or the 2007-2009 GF...
by Lauretta
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:55 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?
Replies: 26
Views: 1648

Re: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?

AtlasShrugged? wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:14 pm
I gotta be able to sell it when I want to sell it. Pretty much gold fits that bill, and has historically.
doesn't a commodities ETF fit that bill too?
by Lauretta
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:46 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?
Replies: 26
Views: 1648

Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities?

I know this is not the best board to ask this question but I will anyway, since there are many knowledgeable people here (and Mr Bogle himself invested in gold for a foundation whose funds he was managing). Which criteria should one consider when choosing between gold and commodities? I have seen in...
by Lauretta
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:01 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 2.5 million to invest for myself[35] and father[70]
Replies: 43
Views: 4237

Re: 2.5 million to invest for myself[35] and father[70]

Considering Dalio's post from today as well, doesn't fill me with hope for bond + stocks alone: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/paradigm-shifts-ray-dalio/ I have read that piece (which according to some media is the reason why gold has rallied since yesterday). I have a huge admiration for Dalio and...
by Lauretta
Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:27 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Understanding Risk & Return
Replies: 19
Views: 1760

Re: Larry Swedroe: Understanding Risk & Return

Hi Lauretta, I’m not that familiar with Taleb. My understanding is that he promotes a huge allocation to the safest investments and a small allocation to the highest risk/highest expected return : barbell approach. Makes sense that his high risk investments might have the lottery like positive skew...
by Lauretta
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:55 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Good explanation of how bond funds don't get crushed in rising rate environment
Replies: 65
Views: 7260

Re: Good explanation of how bond funds don't get crushed in rising rate environment

I've yet to read through a quality explanation of why bond funds don't get hammered in a rising rate environment? The lazy analysis you hear a lot is that bonds are a terrible place to be in such an environment. Can someone provide a thorough explanation of how bond funds that many of you invest in...
by Lauretta
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:27 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Understanding Risk & Return
Replies: 19
Views: 1760

Re: Larry Swedroe: Understanding Risk & Return

If this article sparks your interest, I recommend reading Larry’s newest edition of Reducing The Risk Of Black Swans. Dave It's interesting that you mention Black Swans because as far as I understand the three alternative investments described in the article are vulnerable precisely to Black Swans ...
by Lauretta
Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:14 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Two Articles On Reinsurance
Replies: 57
Views: 6086

Re: Larry Swedroe: Two Articles On Reinsurance

I’m not Larry, but I think I have a couple of answers. First of all the reinsurance fund invests in a wide variety of diverse risks. Each individual risk has a big left tail, but the left tail riskmof the fund is greatly reduced by the diversification. Second, what matters is the left tail risk of ...
by Lauretta
Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:32 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Two Articles On Reinsurance
Replies: 57
Views: 6086

Re: Larry Swedroe: Two Articles On Reinsurance

http://www.etf.com/sections/index-investor-corner/swedroe-managing-risk-reinsurance?nopaging=1 http://www.etf.com/sections/index-investor-corner/swedroe-high-uncorrelated-risk This week Larry has posted two articles on reinsurance as a potential portfolio addition. All that matters is the behavior ...
by Lauretta
Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:22 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 'Smart money' bailing on the market, time to get out?
Replies: 92
Views: 13225

Re: Smart money bailing on the market, time to get out?

I have not seen Taleb using the word "gabish." He is very careful with his vocabulary. Other than that, I cheer you as a fellow Taleb fan and envious of you because I can't read him in French. Victoria I also find Taleb fun to read, though I am not sure I would qualify him as 'careful' with his voc...
by Lauretta
Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:32 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 'Smart money' bailing on the market, time to get out?
Replies: 92
Views: 13225

Re: Smart money bailing on the market, time to get out?

I have not seen Taleb using the word "gabish." He is very careful with his vocabulary. Other than that, I cheer you as a fellow Taleb fan and envious of you because I can't read him in French. Victoria I also find Taleb fun to read, though I am not sure I would qualify him as 'careful' with his voc...
by Lauretta
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:03 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: DFA small value... acitve management?
Replies: 103
Views: 6815

Re: DFA small value... acitve management?

I think it's just a question of terminology. People from AQR and DFA define their strategies as active; Swedroe on the other hand defines them as passive bcause they are rules based.
by Lauretta
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:15 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Italian crisis: which are more at risk, big banks or big insurance companies?
Replies: 2
Views: 547

Italian crisis: which are more at risk, big banks or big insurance companies?

The yield of Italian govenrment bonds is increasing and apparently hundreds of billions worth of them are owned by banks, as well as by Insurance companies like Assicuarazioni Generali (where retail investors can also invest their money in structured products guaranteeing their capital). I don't kno...
by Lauretta
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:12 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is EMH a tautology?
Replies: 108
Views: 5493

Re: Is EMH a tautology?

The EMH is not an argument from authority. It has its own internal logic. Academics are not stupid. The fact that it has internal consistency does not make it true. The internal consistency may be useful in the academic world; papers can be published and people can get tenure thanks to it; but it d...
by Lauretta
Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:51 pm
Forum: Non-US Investing
Topic: Investing in ETF (different currencies)
Replies: 9
Views: 739

Re: Investing in ETF (different currencies)

you might have different tax treatment depending upon the currency the ETF is labelled in. Suppose you buy an ETF labelled in USD, the assets go up 10% as measured in pound sterlin, but if the USD goes up 10% too, the ETF value in USD won't have changed. So if you sell it you will have made no profi...
by Lauretta
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:57 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is EMH a tautology?
Replies: 108
Views: 5493

Re: Is EMH a tautology?

That's what makes the "H" in EMH a hypothesis. If it were "proven" (a difficult term to use considering most scientific research will never use the term proven but will only speak in terms of statistical significance, which means that there's always some percentage chance that results you got were ...
by Lauretta
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:29 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is EMH a tautology?
Replies: 108
Views: 5493

Re: Is EMH a tautology?

In the context of individual investors EMH is a perfectly fine guiding principle; more fortunes have been lost trying to beat the market than in simply accepting what the market gives you. Yes I totally agree, and I think that index funding is good for me. But the reason why it's good for me is tha...
by Lauretta
Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:58 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is the performance of the technology sectors across the world highly correlated?
Replies: 2
Views: 420

Re: Is the performance of the technology sectors across the world highly correlated?

It looks like, at least in the short term, the answer to my question is yes: the FAANG fell and tech stocks across the world did too last week; more sharply than the rest.
by Lauretta
Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:06 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is EMH a tautology?
Replies: 108
Views: 5493

Re: Is EMH a tautology?

It is just a tautology and I am more and more puzzled why people (besides academics) take it seriously. Academics don't take it seriously. They haven't taken it seriously since Sitglitz & Grossman's 1975 paper (i.e. 43 years ago ). Shiller's 1981 paper (i.e. 37 years ago ) was the nail in the coffi...
by Lauretta
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:12 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is EMH a tautology?
Replies: 108
Views: 5493

Re: Is EMH a tautology?

We only talk about EMH under the understanding that it is a model that is not 100% correct anyway. No models of this type in markets are supposed to describe the world perfectly, just potentially in some or many contexts, usefully enough. Yes, my claim was precisely that it is not a model. A model ...
by Lauretta
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:39 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is EMH a tautology?
Replies: 108
Views: 5493

Is EMH a tautology?

In a discussion yesterday where I was trying to articulate my thoughts on EMH, I wrote that since EMH cannot be tested because it has no predictive power (due to the joint hypothesis problem - meaning that you will never kown whether it's EMH that is false, or the asset pricing model used that is fa...
by Lauretta
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:58 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Does it make sense to consider that stocks are 'on sale' when there's a correction?
Replies: 84
Views: 4849

Re: Does it make sense to consider that stocks are 'on sale' when there's a correction?

ok but don't these examples show that the idea that prices reflect available information on firms is absurd? Prices may fall a lot, like you note, just because there's a big seller (and no change in the information about the firm). The efficient market hypothesis concerns more than just information...
by Lauretta
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:28 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Does it make sense to consider that stocks are 'on sale' when there's a correction?
Replies: 84
Views: 4849

Re: Does it make sense to consider that stocks are 'on sale' when there's a correction?

ok but don't these examples show that the idea that prices reflect available information on firms is absurd? Prices may fall a lot, like you note, just because there's a big seller (and no change in the information about the firm). The efficient market hypothesis concerns more than just information...
by Lauretta
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:20 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Does it make sense to consider that stocks are 'on sale' when there's a correction?
Replies: 84
Views: 4849

Re: Does it make sense to consider that stocks are 'on sale' when there's a correction?

Yes they are. If you want a finance PhD to instruct you on the subject . . . Asness and I both studied with the same professor who, not coincidentally, won a Nobel Prize for his work on the topic. So I'm feeling pretty good about my instruction already. Cool. I am happy that you have such a great e...
by Lauretta
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:00 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Does it make sense to consider that stocks are 'on sale' when there's a correction?
Replies: 84
Views: 4849

Re: Does it make sense to consider that stocks are 'on sale' when there's a correction?

EMH is not a model. It doesn't have any predictive power. It cannot be tested and as such it can never be falisfied. It is a dogma or tautology, because you always need an asset pricing model to go with it, and you could always claim that the problem lies with the latter which need improving. Yeah,...
by Lauretta
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:56 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Does it make sense to consider that stocks are 'on sale' when there's a correction?
Replies: 84
Views: 4849

Re: Does it make sense to consider that stocks are 'on sale' when there's a correction?

Stocks are not "on sale" but are actually repriced to reflect a new, slower growth world. So you mean that the growth prospects for European small caps suddenly changed on Wednesday at 3.30 pm (when their price suddenly dropped), and have today improved? No I mean the marginal buyer & seller in the...