Search found 226 matches

by alpine_boglehead
Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:30 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Time Not On Active’s Side
Replies: 3
Views: 398

Re: Larry Swedroe: Time Not On Active’s Side

It's what you would expect, randomness in results smoothes out over time, but the cost drag accumulates.
by alpine_boglehead
Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:15 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Could things get much worse for the Italian stock market? How?
Replies: 60
Views: 3979

Re: Could things get much worse for the Italian stock market? How?

With yesterday's drop of about 4%, the FTSE MIB is even cheaper now, so that the Italian market has now one of the lowest valuations of the world (as measured by CAPE or other metrics). I am wondering whether it is a bargain, or whether things are likely to still get much worse? Even if Italy were ...
by alpine_boglehead
Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:31 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "Multialternative mutual fund returns"
Replies: 15
Views: 1588

Re: "Multialternative mutual fund returns"

I'll approach this from a numbers perspective. Sampling several dozen funds from category list, here's some conclusions. Fund expense ratios range between 0.75 and 3.36% (yuck - this one here , and $1.2b in assets). We hear all the time that costs matter, and that there's no free lunch. So whatever ...
by alpine_boglehead
Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:14 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Bonds... Why do people bother with them. ?
Replies: 71
Views: 7347

Re: Bonds... Why do people bother with them. ?

Here's a puzzle: would you be asking this question if it was January 2009? (Ooh, Ooh! Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter!) I remember 2009 very well. Was 100% stock at the time (and since 1995) and remember thinking in 2009 that I wished I had more money to invest in stocks. Saw it as a great buying opportunit...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:16 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Root of Good's cost of raising a child: $3,300 per year
Replies: 163
Views: 5387

Re: Root of Good's cost of raising a child: $3,300 per year

The numbers are a bit extreme, and relying on the social safety net without need is ethically questionable, but I guess this guy has groked that a) kids need your time and your love, the material stuff exceeding the fundamental needs is secondary b) the best things in life are free c) even a frugall...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:25 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Bonds... Why do people bother with them. ?
Replies: 71
Views: 7347

Re: Bonds... Why do people bother with them. ?

I bother with bonds because I can think of not entirely implausible scenarios where it will be of advantage to have some bond allocation. Stocks to eat well, bonds to sleep well :D

Here's a puzzle: would you be asking this question if it was January 2009?
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:12 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is an emergency fund just about market timing?
Replies: 103
Views: 5551

Re: Is an emergency fund just about market timing?

An emergency fund has the same function as the spare tire around your waist - it keeps you from starving when times get tough.
by alpine_boglehead
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:30 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Suze Orman - "I hate the FIRE movement."
Replies: 75
Views: 9190

Re: Suze Orman - "I hate the FIRE movement."

If things are that bleak, I will have more skills in place than my peers who have been paying to have everything done. If things are that bleak, I will be starting from zero (because the stock market collapsed if unemployment is 15%), not starting out in the hole with a bunch of debt and too much h...
by alpine_boglehead
Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:48 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: What part of yield curve had largest decline in 08/09 crisis?
Replies: 4
Views: 624

Re: What part of yield curve had largest decline in 08/09 crisis?

Keep in mind that the "another deflationary recession" is just one of many possible future outcomes. That was the most recent crash/bear market, so it's the one we know best and fear most. But it's certainly not unthinkable, Japan's 1990+ scenario was another one and had worse repercussions for Japa...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:04 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Barron's--Vanguard Is Losing Battles on Two Fronts in Fee Wars
Replies: 53
Views: 4734

Re: Barron's--Vanguard Is Losing Battles on Two Fronts in Fee Wars

Portfolio Visualiser says that from January 2009 to August 2018, $10,000 invested in VTSAX grew into $40,418. Putting this in a calculator tells us that the CDGR (compound daily growth rate) for VTSAX was about 0.04% (0.03959% to be exact). So anyone publicly complaining about 0.04% yearly expense r...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:50 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Robinhood Is Making Millions Selling Out Their Millennial Customers To High-Frequency Traders
Replies: 20
Views: 5708

Re: Robinhood Is Making Millions Selling Out Their Millennial Customers To High-Frequency Traders

From the article: The question you should be asking whenever someone in the financial industry offers you something for free is "What's the catch?" And yes, there is typically a catch. For cross-reference, there's the voluminous Fidelity ZERO funds thread . Someone's paying the bill at the end of th...
by alpine_boglehead
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:05 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: It's not enough to mumble "Stay the Course"... INT'L Investing has been a disaster!
Replies: 1194
Views: 99246

Re: It's not enough to mumble "Stay the Course"... INT'L Investing has been a disaster!

Post #1001 in this epic thread ... definitely a good read so far.

Some day there might be a thread "US investing has been a disaster!". Waiting for a poster from the future to confirm :twisted:
by alpine_boglehead
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:43 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Lessons from the financial crisis (Pisani, CNBC)
Replies: 52
Views: 5095

Re: Lessons from the financial crisis (Pisani, CNBC)

1) Many folks have a very small or no emergency fund. Unfortunately. It's so very unwise to not have a financial buffer (provided that you can afford to build one). If your body didn't have a biological emergency fund, you would starve to death between meals. If you don't have a financial emergency...
by alpine_boglehead
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:33 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Lessons from the financial crisis (Pisani, CNBC)
Replies: 52
Views: 5095

Re: Lessons from the financial crisis (Pisani, CNBC)

From the article: Investors do not act rationally in a crisis. We all buried Adam Smith economics in 2008, the idea that rational actors make rational decisions, buying low and selling high. We saw that people don't do that.They panic and sell at any price. They buy high and sell low. Ah, that old m...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:24 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: U.S. stocks continue to soar!
Replies: 321
Views: 33759

Re: U.S. stocks continue to soar!

feel like year 2000 again. Not to me. There is optimism here but not the euphoria of the late 1990's. Not even close in my opinion. Agreed. There's no hoard of investors chasing any company with .com in the name. No startups with 3 developer CEOs, 6 executive assistants and 9 Tesla model 3s :) I th...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:02 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is the Equity Risk Premium Higher in Low-Interest Rate Currencies?
Replies: 8
Views: 543

Re: Is the Equity Risk Premium Higher in Low-Interest Rate Currencies?

The equity risk premium is excess return not absolute return. A higher risk-free rate (or 10-year rate) is just a higher base on top of which the equity risk premium would be added. So if the equity risk premium is, say, 5%, then in the current environment for me (EU) the expected absolute return w...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:31 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is the Equity Risk Premium Higher in Low-Interest Rate Currencies?
Replies: 8
Views: 543

Re: Is the Equity Risk Premium Higher in Low-Interest Rate Currencies?

It does appear the potential equity risk premium is higher overseas than in the US, as interest rates and valuations are lower there, particularly in the developed markets. Low valuations and low interest rates would seem to be, in general, a sign that the potential equity risk premium is higher th...
by alpine_boglehead
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:32 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is the Equity Risk Premium Higher in Low-Interest Rate Currencies?
Replies: 8
Views: 543

Is the Equity Risk Premium Higher in Low-Interest Rate Currencies?

One question that keeps bugging me - is the equity risk premium (ERP) higher when investing from a low-interest rate country/currency? In Europe, the equivalent of risk-free bonds (i.e. treasury bonds) are German government bonds (aka "bunds"). 2-year German bonds (the shortest duration available on...
by alpine_boglehead
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:21 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "75 Must Know Statistics About Long-Term Care: 2018 Edition"
Replies: 56
Views: 5974

Re: "75 Must Know Statistics About Long-Term Care: 2018 Edition"

It's a positive irony that you as one of the older but still very active bogleheads are posting this. :) Thanks for sharing. Long-term care is a very real issue - I'm also investigating this for an elderly relative - the costs are north of $4k per month (in Europe), and this is probably a quite reas...
by alpine_boglehead
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:34 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: $800,000 Windfall. Love the 3-Fund portfolio approach. Wealth Managers in contact
Replies: 33
Views: 4340

Re: $800,000 Windfall. Love the 3-Fund portfolio approach. Wealth Managers in contact

"Act as if every broker, insurance salesman, mutual fund salesperson and financial advisor is a hardened criminal, and stick to low cost index funds, and you'll do just fine". Very true. As you have already made contact, and now are a known worthy target: Run. In more civilized terms: tell all with...
by alpine_boglehead
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:06 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Europe travel Qs [Questions]
Replies: 63
Views: 3795

Re: Europe travel Qs

2) maybe take the train from Munich for a day-trip to Salzburg, it's likely more pleasant than by car. As an Austrian, I can strongly recommend Salzburg :) Ooh - didn't think about this. Convenient times (every hour or two in both directions)? About as fast as car, I assume? City center to city cen...
by alpine_boglehead
Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:22 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Europe travel Qs [Questions]
Replies: 63
Views: 3795

Re: Europe travel Qs

1) take real care in Paris, my wallet was stolen there, and I witnessed another theft (fraudsters asking for donations, and on top of that making a run for it instead of giving people their change if they get a high-denomination note). 2) maybe take the train from Munich for a day-trip to Salzburg, ...
by alpine_boglehead
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:54 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: [EU] About the cost of taxes on dividends in European funds
Replies: 22
Views: 1719

Re: [EU] About the cost of taxes on dividends in European funds

A problem with this withholding tax is that it isn't passed through the funds, so in your home country you likely pay taxes on the dividends as if they hadn't been taxed yet (but this may depend on your jurisdiction). E.g. for me in Austria this means that I pay 15% US withholding tax and then 27.5...
by alpine_boglehead
Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:56 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Yield Curve Inversions — Any Benefit from Market Timing?
Replies: 16
Views: 1045

Re: Yield Curve Inversions — Any Benefit to Market Timing?

Overall, it hardly seemed worth the effort. Your thoughts? In an ideal world, the result is a tie. With friction costs, it probably is not. If anyone would have performed the switching in a taxable account or at least some relevant trading costs (spreads, commissions, or, god forbid, front-loaded f...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:34 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "15 Things You Didn't Know About Vanguard Group"
Replies: 13
Views: 3664

Re: "15 Things You Didn't Know About Vanguard Group"

(part of) #5:In 2017, 9 out of every 10 dollars invested in the United States went through Vanguard Can this be right? Only 10% of people using individual stocks or bonds, Fidelity, Schwab, Blackrock (including iShares) etc. for their new investments? For what it's worth, searching for the quote on...
by alpine_boglehead
Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:29 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "15 Things You Didn't Know About Vanguard Group"
Replies: 13
Views: 3664

Re: "15 Things You Didn't Know About Vanguard Group"

(part of) #5:In 2017, 9 out of every 10 dollars invested in the United States went through Vanguard
Can this be right? Only 10% of people using individual stocks or bonds, Fidelity, Schwab, Blackrock (including iShares) etc. for their new investments?
by alpine_boglehead
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:27 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Active Management Justification
Replies: 33
Views: 2118

Re: Active Management Justification

If you're interested in an in-depth analysis of the "outperformance" of actively managed funds, I'd strongly recommend reading "Common Sense on Mutual Funds" by John C. Bogle.
by alpine_boglehead
Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:33 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Help for a beginner investor in Germany
Replies: 23
Views: 2265

Re: Help for a beginner investor in Germany

I agree with Mors' recommendation of Vanguard All-World and iShares Global Aggregate Bond Eur Hedged ETF. Other equivalent ETFs will also do, but these are low-cost and very broad, and a 2 fund portfolio is as simple as it gets. Open an account with a discount broker, either use a savings plan, or i...
by alpine_boglehead
Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:06 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Factor-based strategy is better (winer), OK. then who are the losers?
Replies: 55
Views: 2862

Re: Factor-based strategy is better (winer), OK. then who are the losers?

Have there been any studies that tell us "which stocks you need to buy to underperform"? (i.e. non-factor stocks, if factor stocks outperform?) If so, then it would of course be easy to outperform, i.e. pick the rest of the market :) I think that's quite an interesting mental exercise. I've also he...
by alpine_boglehead
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:36 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Factor-based strategy is better (winer), OK. then who are the losers?
Replies: 55
Views: 2862

Re: Factor-based strategy is better (winer), OK. then who are the losers?

People buying growth funds/stocks in the case of value factor. This is a weird question for me. If the guy who invests 100% Netflix is the winner, who is the loser? The guy investing in General Electric. Jokes aside, if a "factor" is comprised of subset of stocks at a given time, and that factor pe...
by alpine_boglehead
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:58 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Low inflation caused by e-commerce?
Replies: 15
Views: 2307

Re: Low inflation caused by e-commerce?

I think technology will be the major force determining the circumstances in many areas of life in the decades to come. E-commerce is just one of these areas. Education, the remaining manual and administrative work that is not yet automated, healthcare ... you name it. So, my best guess is that infla...
by alpine_boglehead
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:11 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: 47 and clueless - direction needed
Replies: 60
Views: 8615

Re: 47 and clueless - direction needed

Welcome to the forum, chattyanne As pointed out by FIREmeup, these funds are quite suboptimal, to say it nicely. Find out how you can transfer your funds into a Vanguard/Schwab/Fidelity account and use their low-cost index funds. Morningstar shows FKINX and FBLAX to have expense ratios and front loa...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:16 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Deep History of Stock & Bond Returns
Replies: 75
Views: 5661

Re: The Deep History of Stock & Bond Returns

Thanks for this information, it's a perfect companion to your more anecdotal, but very interesting One Company, Six Centuries of Stock Returns, 1372-1946 post about a french company that existed during all this time. Which also concludes that long term returns on stocks are in the ballpark of 5% rea...
by alpine_boglehead
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:35 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Looking for EUR holy grail bond strategy
Replies: 76
Views: 5546

Re: Looking for EUR holy grail bond strategy

But how then can you say the yield is significantly lower? I don't think I said that? In your posts here you explained "If a global bond fund hedges back into EUR then you will get returns = equivalent risk free bond in EUR (Germany) + credit spread". YTM of the global hedged bond is significantly ...
by alpine_boglehead
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:51 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Looking for EUR holy grail bond strategy
Replies: 76
Views: 5546

Re: Looking for EUR holy grail bond strategy

But how then can you say the yield is significantly lower? I don't think I said that? In your posts here you explained "If a global bond fund hedges back into EUR then you will get returns = equivalent risk free bond in EUR (Germany) + credit spread". YTM of the global hedged bond is significantly ...
by alpine_boglehead
Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:46 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Looking for EUR holy grail bond strategy
Replies: 76
Views: 5546

Re: Looking for EUR holy grail bond strategy

Here's my holy grail (greetings from Austria - AA+ rated): For the bond portion of the portfolio there's a CD ladder (higher yield than government bonds), supplemented by a helping of non-EUR hedged global bonds (currently Xtrackers Global Sovereign UCITS ETF, but will probably switch to AGGG - iSha...
by alpine_boglehead
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:33 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Anyone else cheap like me and have to put new $s into the asset class that's down the most?
Replies: 23
Views: 2852

Re: Anyone else cheap like me and have to put new $s into the asset class that's down the most?

I put money into 401k monthly and always put it into whichever asset class is down the most that day in price or whichever is up the least. I feel like I always want to get the best deal. Have most in no fee ETFs. Any left over goes into the total bond index MF. So far things seem to balance out wi...
by alpine_boglehead
Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:12 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: in idea with SCV and leverage..
Replies: 23
Views: 2047

Re: in idea with SCV and leverage..

Cross-referencing this current thread about the psychology of money. It's about a superb article about investor behavior. And this quote sums up the idea of using (too much) leverage.
The idea is that you have to take risk to get ahead, but no risk that could wipe you out is ever worth taking.
by alpine_boglehead
Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:10 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: The Psychology of Money - A Blog Post
Replies: 67
Views: 10533

Re: The Psychology of Money - A Blog Post

It's a real gem - thanks for posting.
The idea is that you have to take risk to get ahead, but no risk that could wipe you out is ever worth taking.
by alpine_boglehead
Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:28 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Upgrade to SSD for 5-year old desktop?
Replies: 64
Views: 4061

Re: Upgrade to SSD for 5-year old desktop?

Do the upgrade to an SSD, it's worth the 100 or so bucks. I've also put an SSD into a laptop of similar specs and age, and it really makes a difference. If you use a Samsung SSD (I've used an EVO 850), there's a software from Samsung for cloning the existing disk (also to a smaller SSD as in your ca...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:57 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Financial Illiteracy’s High Cost
Replies: 30
Views: 4086

Re: Larry Swedroe: Financial Illiteracy’s High Cost

This finding: There was no evidence that, overall, households with higher financial literacy choose riskier portfolios. Instead, their risk exposure varies systematically with market conditions, allocating more to risky assets when they have higher expected returns. A 1% increase in the expected ex...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:52 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Non-USA Domicile: Thank You IB, Vanguard, and Ishares
Replies: 32
Views: 3831

Re: Non-USA Domicile: Thank You IB, Vanguard, and Ishares

BlackRock / iShares, just announced a reduction in the expense ratios for some of its UK/Irish domiciled ETFs. Price competition is occurring in Europe, hopefully it will continue aggressively as it has in the USA. http://citywire.co.uk/wealth-manager/news/blackrock-cuts-charges-on-multi-billion-et...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:25 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Financial Illiteracy’s High Cost
Replies: 30
Views: 4086

Re: Larry Swedroe: Financial Illiteracy’s High Cost

Making financial literacy courses part of compulsory education would be a benefit to society. But changing that curriculum is a pretty high hurdle - there is a large amount of inertia and many competing topics. Another path is through self education. This is easier but still a pretty high hurdle. F...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:15 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Financial Illiteracy’s High Cost
Replies: 30
Views: 4086

Re: Larry Swedroe: Financial Illiteracy’s High Cost

One of the reasons I use an advisor is that I know there is stuff I don’t know. That's smart. There are things we know, things we know we don't know, and things we don't know that we don't know. Advisers can help with all three. As can the bogleheads :) We can only hope that there's not too much un...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:11 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: in idea with SCV and leverage..
Replies: 23
Views: 2047

Re: in idea with SCV and leverage..

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5934 It's 29 pages, but reading through the whole thread is worth it. +1, yes that's highly recommended reading for anyone toying with the idea of leverage. Grab a cup of your favorite beverage, and open a chart of the S&P 500 which you should scroll...
by alpine_boglehead
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:02 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Two Articles On Reinsurance
Replies: 41
Views: 3561

Re: Larry Swedroe: Two Articles On Reinsurance

Random Walker, I understand your point about uncorrelated asset classes. I am also willing to accept that some of these uncorrelated assets will under perform, maybe for long periods of time. Here is where i have concerns about some of these more esoteric (at least to me) assets classes being recom...
by alpine_boglehead
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:18 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Two Articles On Reinsurance
Replies: 41
Views: 3561

Re: Larry Swedroe: Two Articles On Reinsurance

Random Walker, I understand your point about uncorrelated asset classes. I am also willing to accept that some of these uncorrelated assets will under perform, maybe for long periods of time. Here is where i have concerns about some of these more esoteric (at least to me) assets classes being recom...
by alpine_boglehead
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:18 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Cliff Asness - The Hedgie in Winter
Replies: 40
Views: 4024

Re: Cliff Asness - The Hedgie in Winter

Meaning we small individual investors are left with the copycat hedge funds that siphon off your money without adding value. So I'll stick to my globally diversified stock portfolio then :) That's what I am doing, although my portfolio is US centric. However if I was worth > $10M I would probably b...
by alpine_boglehead
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:09 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Cliff Asness - The Hedgie in Winter
Replies: 40
Views: 4024

Re: Cliff Asness - The Hedgie in Winter

Look up the track record of the largest hedge funds like Bridgewater, SAC, DE Shaw, Renaissance, Tiger, Appaloosa, Baupost Lone Pine, Citadel, Elliott etc. The widely used hedge fund return databases even miss some of them since there is no obligation for a fund to report returns. If you Google the...
by alpine_boglehead
Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:25 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Cliff Asness - The Hedgie in Winter
Replies: 40
Views: 4024

Re: Cliff Asness - The Hedgie in Winter

Generally the largest hedge funds do a good job as one would expect because they have the smartest investment management talent in the world working for them. Most of us have not achieved the level of wealth where investing in a hedge fund would make sense, but there are a lot of ultra wealthy peop...