Search found 219 matches

by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:41 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Tax loss harvesting Vxus (total intern.) question
Replies: 6
Views: 748

Re: Tax loss harvesting Vxus (total intern.) question

I could be wrong, but I believe the combination of Developed and Emerging funds you listed would already contain Small Caps. Any extra VSS would be tilting.
by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:40 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: What did you buy today
Replies: 108
Views: 7522

Re: What did you buy today

VIIIX (SP 500) - Scheduled biweekly 401k contributions
VTIAX - Scheduled biweekly automatic taxable contributions

55/45 split
by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:56 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: TLH: Small Cap Value (VSIAX)
Replies: 3
Views: 330

TLH: Small Cap Value (VSIAX)

Hi everyone. What would be the best index fund (don't want to do ETFs) to TLH VSIAX (Small cap value)? I hold VSIAX as part of the scv tilt. So far I am considering the following. 1) VTMSX - Vanguard Tax-Managed Small Cap Fund 2) VEXMX - Vanguard Extended Market Index Fund Investor Shares or potenti...
by ImmigrantSaver
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:09 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: 20 countries where 200K in retirement savings will last you decades
Replies: 75
Views: 8978

Re: 20 countries where 200K in retirement savings will last you decades

It's great to fantasize about this, but please take it from someone that has lived overseas for multiple years and was a Navy brat growing up - there is no place as good as the USA. If i had to pick second place, it would be a highly developed country, ie something from the MSCI developed (not emer...
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:43 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Root of Good's cost of raising a child: $3,300 per year
Replies: 163
Views: 5453

Re: Root of Good's cost of raising a child: $3,300 per year

The community you choose can contribute to your expenses, or to your frugality. Some on here have mentioned the cost of pre-k; my school district has universal pre-k at no cost. Some mentioned swimming lessons - also offered for free for kids each summer. Our school district has a strong music prog...
by ImmigrantSaver
Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:43 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Balance Living Life & Savings
Replies: 17
Views: 2107

Re: Balance Living Life & Savings

I would stay put till first child needs to go to school. Save like crazy meanwhile and reassess then. No need to lose the support system for an extra bedroom you don't immediately need.
by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:05 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Simple-minded sayings?
Replies: 37
Views: 3078

Re: Simple-minded sayings?

IowaFarmBoy wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:30 am
I've come up with one that is a response to the "Rent its throwing your money away" but it hasn't caught on yet. Maybe it it's too obtuse.....

"You're ether renting your money (mortgage) or your house."
I like it. Now we need one for "but the prices of the homes will only go up" :oops:
by ImmigrantSaver
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:18 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How much to spend on rent in high COL area?
Replies: 15
Views: 1578

Re: How much to spend on rent in high COL area?

I'm currently looking for a new place to rent in a very high cost of living area. I've spotted a 189 sq ft studio for $2000 per mo, fully furnished. This represents around ~17% of my gross, but the sq footage is opening my eyes. Does this sound crazy? It might be just too tight spacewise. And I am ...
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:00 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Windfall in rubles: how should we invest it?
Replies: 22
Views: 2014

Re: Windfall in rubles: how should we invest it?

Nate79 wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:06 am
What is the fastest and cheapest way to get your money out of Russia? That's what I would do. Yesterday.
+1000

If she is adamant about keeping it in the country, then maybe buy a real estate property with it.

FWIW I am a Russian living in US.
by ImmigrantSaver
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:06 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Decent compensation to move to Bay Area CA?
Replies: 290
Views: 21948

Re: Decent compensation to move to Bay Area CA?

Haven't read every post, but wanted to say to please do NOT use GreatSchools "score" as gospel to how good a school is.... They are garbage. Look at test scores, demographics, and other factors to determine if it's a good fit for your family. I realize they are prominently displayed on sites like R...
by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:52 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: It's not enough to mumble "Stay the Course"... INT'L Investing has been a disaster!
Replies: 1194
Views: 99306

Re: It's not enough to mumble "Stay the Course"... INT'L Investing has been a disaster!

bligh wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:34 pm
9 pages in. I have to ask. Has a single person changed their position having read or participated in this thread? :shock: :oops:


:sharebeer
No. Not even considered. But the thread is very entertaining
by ImmigrantSaver
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:13 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: It's not enough to mumble "Stay the Course"... INT'L Investing has been a disaster!
Replies: 1194
Views: 99306

Re: It's not enough to mumble "Stay the Course"... INT'L Investing has been a disaster!

That’s the way to do it. I bought some international small caps myself today. Just curious. Do you buy those in taxable? I wish I could buy some VSS in the past days but my Roth is full and I heard VSS is not good for taxable so I got vtiax instead. The vast majority of my accounts are tax-deferred...
by ImmigrantSaver
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:39 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: It's not enough to mumble "Stay the Course"... INT'L Investing has been a disaster!
Replies: 1194
Views: 99306

Re: It's not enough to mumble "Stay the Course"... INT'L Investing has been a disaster!

I, too, am disappointed by Intl returns - especially emerging. My plan, though, was and still is to allocate to a desired exposure and maintain that exposure. That’s the way to do it. I bought some international small caps myself today. Just curious. Do you buy those in taxable? I wish I could buy ...
by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:36 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: International stocks in free fall
Replies: 151
Views: 20020

Re: International stocks in free fall

blackcat allie wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:33 pm
Thinking about this thread today...
While buying VTIAX? :twisted:
by ImmigrantSaver
Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:40 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Admiral Fund or ETF for 3-Fund?
Replies: 31
Views: 2155

Re: Admiral Fund or ETF for 3-Fund?

Also one can always convert Admiral shares to ETFs but not the other way around. I would start with Admiral if unsure and then decide..
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:04 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: What % of your equity is int’l?
Replies: 141
Views: 8595

Re: What % of your equity is int’l?

Roughly approximating the world at 55:45. Considering switching to 50:50 for simplicity but have to sleep on it first for 6 months or so..
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:00 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable
Replies: 14
Views: 496

Re: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable

Do you think it wasn't a problem for you mostly because you happen to early retire during the bull market. (I am assuming here as I don't know your exact timeline) I semi-retired in 2007 and saw my equities drop by about 50%. My taxable account was 100% equities and has been that way for at least a...
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:51 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable
Replies: 14
Views: 496

Re: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable

With multiple accounts, I use the tools I described in this thread to show my overall asset allocation: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150267 so I don't make each account have the same asset allocation, but really only look at the overall total portfolio asset allocation. To anybo...
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:48 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable
Replies: 14
Views: 496

Re: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable

..., I might end up with significantly less money to live on. Is that a valid concern, or am I stuck in some mental accounting trap? Not a valid concern in my opinion. I am was early retired. Now I am simply retired because I got old. Do you think it wasn't a problem for you mostly because you happ...
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:44 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable
Replies: 14
Views: 496

Re: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable

If by smooth the portfolio you mean keep it properly at desired asset allocation, then I agree it can be helpful to have assets you need in tax deferred accounts to rebalance without capital gains taxes. The usual result of tax location advice is to keep all of one's bonds in tax deferred but that ...
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:38 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable
Replies: 14
Views: 496

Re: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable

With multiple accounts, I use the tools I described in this thread to show my overall asset allocation: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150267 so I don't make each account have the same asset allocation, but really only look at the overall total portfolio asset allocation. To anybo...
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:27 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable
Replies: 14
Views: 496

Re: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable

BeBH65 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:17 am
Are you aware of this wiki page: Tax-efficient_fund_placement? There might be some additional info there.
I am, thanks! I know I would lose some foreign tax credit but was wondering if there are any other cons to my strategy.
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:10 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable
Replies: 14
Views: 496

Asset Location question – Mimicking Asset Allocation in 401k and taxable

Hello, Until recently I didn’t have a good international option in my 401K so I kept most of my international allocation (VTIAX) in taxable account. Last year my 401k got an option of Fidelity International index FSGDX and I’ve been slowly allocating to it. Current mix of US/International is 80/20 i...
by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:04 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?
Replies: 2924
Views: 576746

Re: What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

Chase Freedom 5% categories for Q3 can be activated starting today. It is Gas, Lyft, and Walgreens. Unfortunately these are of no use for me. I already get 5% on gas from my Amex Blue Cash, and even better, right now I'm getting 10% back at Exxon/Mobil stations through another Amex promotion (throu...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon May 07, 2018 10:18 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Please talk me into saving more in retirement instead of home down payment
Replies: 13
Views: 2418

Re: Please talk me into saving more in retirement instead of home down payment

Please tell me that based on my current circumstances we are making a right decision that we won't regret later. You can almost always take your contributions(but not earnings) out of Roth so there is little downside to putting the money in the Roth since you can still use it for a downpayment. Som...
by ImmigrantSaver
Thu May 03, 2018 10:56 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying a house and High tax state.. Does it make sense anymore??
Replies: 28
Views: 2444

Re: Buying a house and High tax blue state.. Does it make sense anymore??

House I'm planning to buy is around 800K and I currently pay 32k/year rent. Well its not a typical case, because my landlord hasn't increased rent for 10 years...hez got too many properties to worry about this one and cares more about someone with stable income and keep the house neat.. ( Doesn't m...
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue May 01, 2018 11:56 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

I understand that it's not really an investment. But I think I still would be able to write off the interest and taxes from my taxes even if I don't live in the place.. It would be treated as personal property. There were some major changes in taxes for 2018 that affect those particular deductions....
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue May 01, 2018 11:04 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Series I Bonds in April/May 2018
Replies: 69
Views: 9948

Re: Series I Bonds in April/May 2018

Fixed rated 0.3% Ahh. Bought mine in January :oops: Oh well I split 50/50; I bought $5000 worth yesterday and will be buying $5000 worth in the new period. Oh well, but I was agonizing over something that wasn't going to make a huge difference even over a 30 year holding period. Yeah, I just decide...
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue May 01, 2018 10:09 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Series I Bonds in April/May 2018
Replies: 69
Views: 9948

Re: Series I Bonds in April/May 2018

TdF fan wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 9:03 am
Fixed rated 0.3%
Ahh. Bought mine in January :oops: Oh well
by ImmigrantSaver
Tue May 01, 2018 8:49 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

I considered finding a better rental but they are somewhat against that because the rent will increase to market. They say that in that case they'd rather stay in their current rental so I don't "waste" even more money on rent. In their head if I buy the place, at least it would an investment. They...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:23 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

I considered finding a better rental but they are somewhat against that because the rent will increase. They say that in that case they'd rather stay in their current rental so I don't "waste" even more money on rent. In their head if I buy the place, at least it would an investment. They are 62 an...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:00 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

My parents are low-income due to disability, so I’ve been helping them pay the rent for the past several years. I am considering buying them a 1-bed coop apartment instead. Do you think I can afford it? Yes, you could afford it. But you might want to consider having them find an apartment in a bett...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:56 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

I haven't seen this response from anybody else, but couldn't this apartment be a reasonable investment? About 20 years ago, we considered the same thing for my wife's mother. It never took off as originally planned, with all siblings chipping in, but one couple made the decision to move forward, an...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:24 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

Neuron wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:16 pm
If the issue is just that it is dirty, wouldn't it be cheaper to pay for a cleaner?
It's not that simple. The building needed to be renovated like 15 years ago :(
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:08 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

I think it is a very noble gesture. Do your parents want to move? Are they unhappy with their apartment? It sounds like the apartment itself is decent but the lobby and amenities are dirty/older. The purchase would really stretch your budget. Insurance, taxes, maintenance, updates. I'm not sure you...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:53 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

I would just move them to a nicer apartment and continue to subsidize the rent. Please read this before doing anything: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2014/02/20/case-study-10-should-josiah-buy-his-parents-a-house/ I agree with this approach as well. Can they afford $1000 a month? I had family rent a very ...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:07 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

Jags4186 wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:24 am
I would just move them to a nicer apartment and continue to subsidize the rent.

Please read this before doing anything:

http://jlcollinsnh.com/2014/02/20/case- ... s-a-house/
Very interesting article that covers the points I haven't thought about. Thanks!
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:19 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

Oh the money was set aside for the housing downpayment. I can't wait to get rid of the cash :) Whatever is leftover will get invested! So are choosing between paying a fixed 4.5% vs. unknown but probably higher expectations from investing. It's a matter of your ability and need to accept risk for p...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:16 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

Thank you everyone for the prompt responses. I just wanted to make sure I am not considering something completely "out of my league" :sharebeer
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:14 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

Of course you CAN afford it. Whether you want to is a different story. I would not do this in your situation (or probably any situation) but that is just me. Also, if they are low income why are they living in such expensive places? We don’t know where OP’s parents are, but in locations where COOP ...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:13 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

Thank you for you response. How much would you recommend putting down? 50%? Depends on why you have all that money in a savings account. You certainly want to keep sufficient liquidity for emergencies and whatever else that money is intended for. Avoiding paying 4.5% is attractive compared to curre...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:06 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

Yes, I think you could afford it, since you appear a good saver. (Have you considered what will change when/if you get married? The future is hard to see.) Will leave it to others to analyse it. Is the apt. handicapped accessible? Disabilities may increase, needs may increase, special care or housi...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:04 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

I can’t do math this morning, so I’ll leave that to others, but a couple of random thoughts... With rent controlled apartments, you have to figure that you’ll be doing your own maintenance inside the four walls of the apartment. It isn't in the landlord’s financial interest to do any more than the ...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:01 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Re: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

Seems like you can afford it even though it is a large initial expense and also an ongoing expense since presumably your parents will pay $1,000 in rent and the initial carrying costs will be $1,800. Expect maintenance charges including taxes to increase 2-3% a year or at the prevailing inflation r...
by ImmigrantSaver
Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:25 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents
Replies: 46
Views: 2592

Help me decide if I can afford to buy an apartment for parents

Hi everyone, My parents are low-income due to disability, so I’ve been helping them pay the rent for the past several years. I am considering buying them a 1-bed coop apartment instead. The purchase would be primarily because their current rental building is very, VERY poorly maintained (dirty/nasty...
by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:06 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: KF's simple rules to achieve FI [Financial Independence]
Replies: 451
Views: 35303

Re: KF's simple rules to achieve FI [Financial Independence]

Folks, The followings are some of the rules that I used. It may work for some folks. On this thread, I will compile some of them and provide the reasoning and thought behind those rules. You should adjust them based on your own circumstances. I am an engineer. So, I am biased towards my income and ...
by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:55 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: KF's simple rules to achieve FI [Financial Independence]
Replies: 451
Views: 35303

Re: KF's simple rules to achieve FI [Financial Independence]

Folks, The followings are some of the rules that I used. It may work for some folks. On this thread, I will compile some of them and provide the reasoning and thought behind those rules. You should adjust them based on your own circumstances. I am an engineer. So, I am biased towards my income and ...
by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:44 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Your Monthly Cost of Living
Replies: 66
Views: 7940

Re: Your Monthly Cost of Living

Single, Chicago North Side Mortgage: $981 Property Taxes: $290 (Escrow) Condo Fees: $710 Home Insurance: $33 ($400 annual) Electricity: $50 Cable/Phone/Internet: $40 Mobile Phone: $65 CTA Transit Pass: $25 Laundry: $25 Groceries: $325 Total non-discretionary: $2,544 The condo fees are the killer in...
by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:10 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Your Monthly Cost of Living
Replies: 66
Views: 7940

Re: Your Monthly Cost of Living

these threads always seem to flow to a feel of ..... "my costs are lower than yours" . Texas - 2 adults, 1 HS kid at home, 1 kid at univ. 1. Housing: $3035 (mortgage 1510, prop tax 800, Insurance 225,Utilities 500) 2. Transportation: @500 (Insurance -4 cars, Gas, registration/repairs, tolls, no loa...
by ImmigrantSaver
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:56 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Your Monthly Cost of Living
Replies: 66
Views: 7940

Re: Your Monthly Cost of Living

these threads always seem to flow to a feel of ..... "my costs are lower than yours" . Texas - 2 adults, 1 HS kid at home, 1 kid at univ. 1. Housing: $3035 (mortgage 1510, prop tax 800, Insurance 225,Utilities 500) 2. Transportation: @500 (Insurance -4 cars, Gas, registration/repairs, tolls, no loa...