Search found 1167 matches

by wolf359
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:27 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Boglehead Philosophy Open To Change?
Replies: 197
Views: 8097

Re: Boglehead Philosophy Open To Change?

Nisiprius & T. I've analyzed the portfolio's or funds that the FIRE community uses. Same thing, you have a mix of funds... Some people really have a grasp on what their doing & others don't. One of my favorite bloggers (Millennial Revolution) use a 60/40 Balanced Fund. Other FIRE people use individ...
by wolf359
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:51 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: mutual funds or etfs, why each
Replies: 23
Views: 1535

Re: mutual funds or etfs, why each

I prefer mutual funds because I'm at Vanguard, and can: - buy fractional shares. - set up automated investing. - get the same expense ratio when buying Admiral shares. - have met the minimum balance for Admiral shares. - can always switch to ETF later if I really want to. (Can't go from ETF to mutua...
by wolf359
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:06 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Should I continue to hold REITs?
Replies: 48
Views: 3562

Re: Should I continue to hold REITs?

Sorry for any thread redundancy. Last year, I added some REIT (VNQ) to my IRA portfolio (app 5%) and has done nothing but lose money. Frankly, with rising rates and with the state of commercial real estate, I'm not sure I have confidence with it in the long run. I thought it would be a good way to ...
by wolf359
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:26 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Help me explain why pre-tax investing can help when retiring in same bracket
Replies: 83
Views: 6539

Re: Help me explain why pre-tax investing can help when retiring in same bracket

I would think the government (now) likes Roth. If you choose Roth 401k or Roth IRA you certainly pay the tax now. Whatever the rate. It is paid. Starting from the bottom and filling the buckets means you pay 0%, 10%, 15%, 22% on the dollars as you fill them up. If you have a pension to fill up thos...
by wolf359
Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:24 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: 529 vs Amazon stock
Replies: 2
Views: 684

Re: 529 vs Amazon stock

I agree with delamer. Don't gamble with your child's education funding. Invest in broadly diversified mutual funds, or buy the prepaid plan. In fact, you may need to do both -- prepaid plans typically cover tuition, not room and board, books, fees, and other expenses. Those additional costs can almo...
by wolf359
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:19 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: We crush stock indexes, Yale claims
Replies: 98
Views: 11059

Re: We crush stock indexes, Yale claims

I suppose it's not surprising, but has anyone questioned how they managed to absolutely trounce the TSM over a 20 year period? Was it through a superior allocation to specific asset classes, was it through stock picking, was it through market timing, etc.? They give broad sweeping views of this wit...
by wolf359
Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:59 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: China Hustle Movie
Replies: 33
Views: 3871

Re: China Hustle Movie

I heard the podcast on Stacking Benjamins, and began checking it out to find out more. I found this discussion on Bogleheads. I have not yet seen the movie, but I did find the PDF released by the producers that backed up the movie. It is located here: http://stopthechinahustle.org/PDFs/China_Hustle_...
by wolf359
Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:21 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: DINK High Income Earners - how to lessen the tax impact?
Replies: 25
Views: 2334

Re: DINK High Income Earners - how to lessen the tax impact?

I honestly do not know - that's a question for the accountant. All of this was done and set up on his advice/guidance, as well as discussions with other owners we know. It seemed like we were the only ones NOT set up that way. Actually, your question about lessoning the tax impact is also a good qu...
by wolf359
Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:03 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?
Replies: 84
Views: 13328

Re: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?

I gave all the actual reasons in the discussion just above Agggm's "no" response. I didn't provide the original "no" with no explanation. In fact, I didn't consider it to have no explanation given the context.

My final "no" was tongue in cheek.

My intent was humor, not snark. :sharebeer
by wolf359
Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:59 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Is it still worth buying a house in a state with insane property taxes
Replies: 106
Views: 12208

Re: Is it still worth buying a house in a state with insane property taxes

Tax laws have changed since last year as well. You have to run the numbers for your situation, but a mortgage will probably not help your taxes. The standard deduction is double the previous amount, which means that it will probably not make sense to itemize. Not itemizing means the mortgage interes...
by wolf359
Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:43 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?
Replies: 84
Views: 13328

Re: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?

Sounds like you should be considering purchasing a simple fixed annuity with some or all of that $4 million. No. Why not? I'm not a huge annuity fan, but among OPs conflicting requirements is a desire for security/safety. An SPIA (or deferred version) would provide an income floor and give him lots...
by wolf359
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:04 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: High-yield Savings
Replies: 31
Views: 3712

Re: High-yield Savings

2 things you can't do with online only banks: 1- Notary public if needed 2- Depositing cash (I think Capital 360 is now offering this, not sure) Other than this, you can't go wrong. I keep a small direct deposit to BoA to keep it open and fee free just in case. My main checking account is Charles, ...
by wolf359
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:39 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?
Replies: 84
Views: 13328

Re: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?

@cjcerny Thanks, will look into that. Any recommendations? A SPIA (single premium immediate annuity) is a simple insurance contract. You give an insurance company as much money as you want to and they, in turn, pay you a guaranteed monthly amount for as long as you live based on their calculations ...
by wolf359
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:33 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is there a such thing as a blue collar Boglehead?
Replies: 251
Views: 35422

Re: Is there a such thing as a blue collar Boglehead?

New poster here, but I've lurked for a while. I'm not a blue collar worker, though I work an office job with a mid 40k salary and feel as if I can identify with the blue collar type boglehead. This thread piqued my interest and hit me close to home, and made me happy to know that I am not alone in ...
by wolf359
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:08 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?
Replies: 84
Views: 13328

Re: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?

- The 100k-120k I would like is post-tax. But 100k after taxes (even 80k if I had to) could suffice. I can survive off less in "hard times" as my monthly expenses are less than $5000/m However, predictable 80k to 100k post tax is at the top of the list for me. - I already have the funds to pay for ...
by wolf359
Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:43 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: High-yield Savings
Replies: 31
Views: 3712

Re: High-yield Savings

2 things you can't do with online only banks: 1- Notary public if needed 2- Depositing cash (I think Capital 360 is now offering this, not sure) Other than this, you can't go wrong. I keep a small direct deposit to BoA to keep it open and fee free just in case. My main checking account is Charles, ...
by wolf359
Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:04 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: [What UN-frugal thing do you do? What do you splurge on?]
Replies: 567
Views: 37358

Re: Name something you bought that wasn't cheap and glad you did

My college education. I'm going to be paying for my childrens' college education as well. It's that important.
by wolf359
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:22 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Any aggressive index funds in your portfolio?
Replies: 35
Views: 3191

Re: Any aggressive index funds in your portfolio?

I have a factor tilt with small cap value.

I also have a tilt on momentum with MTUM. MTUM performance was fun last year.
by wolf359
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:04 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Vanguard vs TIAA
Replies: 58
Views: 1663

Re: Vanguard vs TIAA

Article on TIAA late last year in New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/21/busi ... -tiaa.html

It may not apply in this case -- just be aware of this potential conflict with use of in-house products.
by wolf359
Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:51 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?
Replies: 84
Views: 13328

Re: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?

1: Receive at least 100k to $120k (inflation adjusted) a year for the rest of my life. 2: Not have to sell more than 2% of my investment per year. 3: Have my investment grow by at least 6% a year on average, over my lifetime. (after I draw the 1% to 2%.) 4. Be as hands-off, passive and simple as po...
by wolf359
Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:08 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?
Replies: 84
Views: 13328

Re: How can I Invest 4 million dollars to earn 120k (inflation adjusted) a year for life?

Several questions immediately come to mind: 1) Do you have experience handling this level of wealth? Are you accustomed to investing large amounts in the stock market? The reason I ask is that the first time you see a 10% drop in the market (as occurred in the last 1-2 months), you will see your por...
by wolf359
Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:42 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Why not annuitize most of portfolio?
Replies: 104
Views: 8047

Re: Why not annuitize most of portfolio?

My plan is to annuitize when I am around 70: - I would annuitize only about half of my bond allocation at the time. - When combined with my Social Security, this should cover all core living expenses. The social security component is inflation adjusted. The rest of my investment portfolio covers the...
by wolf359
Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:21 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Rental Property...Tips/Learning for Newbie
Replies: 16
Views: 1083

Re: Rental Property...Tips/Learning for Newbie

Good advice above. Some additional advice and sources: Sources: Building Wealth One House at a Time by John Schaub - Focuses on single family homes http://www.biggerpockets.com Especially check out their discussions on house hacking Advice: - It doesn't matter whether you plan to be a landlord or no...
by wolf359
Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:12 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Too late fort Roth IRA?
Replies: 9
Views: 910

Re: Too late fort Roth IRA?

If you're not maxing out your 401k at work, then switch to maxing out your 401k, putting the new contributions into the Roth 401k option. This option does not have an income eligibility requirement. The catch is that not all 401k programs support it (every one I've ever had does, but you might be un...
by wolf359
Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:47 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Best place to buy a TV
Replies: 33
Views: 2637

Re: Best place to buy a TV

I buy at Costco using the Costco credit card just for the extended warranties. I also got the Square Trade Extended warranty, with stretches the whole thing to 7 years. While normally I consider extended warranties a waste of money, it is important when buying Samsung televisions. The warranty polic...
by wolf359
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:17 pm
Forum: Local Chapters and Bogleheads Community
Topic: Too much Bogleheads.org?
Replies: 76
Views: 9663

Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Bogleheads and books help you with theory and planning. If you find yourself watching CNBC or the financial news sites, they ten to lead you astray, or at least make you anxious. Still, there comes a point where you realize that all the questions and answers are ones you've heard before. Take a brea...
by wolf359
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:13 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Finance only laptop? Can I use an old one?
Replies: 25
Views: 1648

Re: Finance only laptop? Can I use an old one?

Cloudready from Neverware. Learned about it from someone on Bogleheads. Install Chrome OS and turn your laptop into a Chromebook. free for home use I don't use it, but I have tried it. Use this if you don't want to buy a Chromebook. It's essentially a supported version of Chromium, the open source ...
by wolf359
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:09 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Article about Dave Ramsey advisor referral program
Replies: 1
Views: 450

Article about Dave Ramsey advisor referral program

Read an interesting article which gave a figure for how much Ramsey gets paid for his advisor network. I have no idea of the accuracy. http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20170407/FREE/170409952/advisers-profit-through-association-with-dave-ramsey-x2014-but-not The site may try to make you sign up...
by wolf359
Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:22 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: help! I want to treat heirs equally
Replies: 38
Views: 5273

Re: help! I want to treat heirs equally

Another point made by Beyond the Grave is that what parents think is fair and equitable is not necessarily the same as what the children think. There is poignant story about a rift created between siblings because of the parents' decision to divide assets equally. One sibling had received much more...
by wolf359
Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:51 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Trying the Impossible - Financing 30-Year Retirements with 40-Year Careers
Replies: 118
Views: 17138

Re: Trying the Impossible - Financing 30-Year Retirements with 40-Year Careers

Rethinking Retirement Basically, Merton says it boils down to this: “You either have to work longer or accept a lower standard of living. What you can’t do is work the same number of years as your parents, live longer and enjoy the same standard of living. That’s not feasible.” Link - http://www.re...
by wolf359
Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:54 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Tranquilizing Fear of Dip after Initial Investment
Replies: 23
Views: 1683

Re: Tranquilizing Fear of Dip after Initial Investment

Here is something that will work for you: Invest money whenever the market drops big in a single day. Make that a rule that you follow. Pretty soon you will be habituated to losing money and it won't bother you anymore. I used to do this. As a strategy for overcoming fear, it works. What happens is...
by wolf359
Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:47 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Tranquilizing Fear of Dip after Initial Investment
Replies: 23
Views: 1683

Re: Tranquilizing Fear of Dip after Initial Investment

Now, things have turned down since I initially invested [OT comment removed by moderator prudent]. Who knows if it will continue or reverse tomorrow. That's the whole point of index investing; I understand. But still, I think about it every day and I really want to break free from the twisted mind....
by wolf359
Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:25 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How Scalabale is the 3/4 Fund portfolio?
Replies: 38
Views: 2844

Re: How Scalabale is the 3/4 Fund portfolio?

Considering Buffet is putting 10% in fixed income and 90% in S&P 500 for his estate, there’s no limit I was going to cite this as well. While he's giving most of his assets to charity, the amount he's leaving for his wife is probably still over $100 million. Index funds do scale. At some point you'...
by wolf359
Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:11 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Any seasoned advisors to discuss best sectors/mutual funds for market out-performance?
Replies: 93
Views: 4458

Re: Any seasoned advisors to discuss best sectors/mutual funds for market out-performance?

Not a fan of index funds (which include, by definition, poorly performing and well performing sectors of the economy). Currently own 10 active mutual funds with last 12 month returns 32% (some leveraged to attain this). These are invested in Technology, Biotechnology, Semiconductors, Health Care, N...
by wolf359
Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:05 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: LG 75" vs OLED 65" TV or Wait?
Replies: 44
Views: 3768

Re: LG 75" vs OLED 65" TV or Wait?

Debating between these two TV's and waiting for prices to come down or more technology to come out. I have a 1080p 60" Sony that is still excellent. I am kind of waiting for 4K to take off with streaming and BluRay. I am glad I didn't bite on the 3D craze. Wait. You're still happy with your existin...
by wolf359
Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:58 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-
Replies: 136
Views: 10389

Re: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-

In an American culture that saves close to nothing, it is a recipe for disaster. I could not understand why are you putting down a whole culture. Shikoku, 1) Are you claiming that Average American has a high saving rate? Do not shoot the messenger! 2) I am just stating a fact that it is harder for ...
by wolf359
Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:58 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-
Replies: 136
Views: 10389

Re: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-

Lily established a solo 401(k) for herself and placed her investment property inside it so she can put the Airbnb rent she collects into her tax-deferred retirement savings. I just don't see how this is possible based on what she's said. Here's her story: https://www.thefrugalgene.com/dumb-luck-ric...
by wolf359
Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:14 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-
Replies: 136
Views: 10389

Re: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-

My frustration is with the article, and not with the couple. They're fine -- but they're not saving $150K because they stopped going to concerts, or because they eat inexpensive Chinese cuisine. They're very well off and well-compensated by American standards, and when one is well-off, it's very, v...
by wolf359
Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:04 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-
Replies: 136
Views: 10389

Re: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-

KlangFool wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:56 pm

Most people are cows. They follow the herb.

KlangFool
LOL. You had me scratching my head with that one, until I figured out what you meant.
by wolf359
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:45 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-
Replies: 136
Views: 10389

Re: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-

http://time.com/money/5209776/this-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-do-it/ In case you missed the article, this young couple have their FIRE plan going big time and Lily credits the Boglehead forum for giving her the smarts and expertise to develo...
by wolf359
Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:32 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-
Replies: 136
Views: 10389

Re: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-

Many will read this article and think the couple is making all these sacrifices because of their goal to FIRE. If their behavior strikes you as bizarre, I think what you are seeing is largely explained by different cultural values--combination of traditional Chinese (living with parents), urban (no...
by wolf359
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:40 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-
Replies: 136
Views: 10389

Re: This-millennial-couple-is-saving-150000-a-year-and-plans-to-retire-by-2029-heres-how-they-

How many of you have actually ridden a city bus? Did you encounter other human beings who were on their way to work, school, etc? Or, was it just a bunch of drug addicts and muggers who made you feel like you might not live until your final destination? I used to read the newspaper and have pleasan...
by wolf359
Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:23 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: How do Bogleheads Take Advantage of Dips When Fully Invested?
Replies: 55
Views: 7016

Re: How do Bogleheads Take Advantage of Dips When Fully Invested?

We are saving for other things in addition to investing. Specifically, I have money flowing to a high yield savings account to fund vacations, a new car, and other luxury items. This enables me to sustain a high savings rate -- my wife is not complaining that we can't do any of the "fun" stuff, beca...
by wolf359
Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:14 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Microsoft tech support scam - how to recover?
Replies: 39
Views: 4183

Re: Microsoft tech support scam - how to recover?

My elderly mother almost gave them money but did give them remote access. I spent the evening wiping her hard drive (again) and put Linux Mint on her computer instead with no root access. She had an uncanny ability to mess up her computer. That fixed the issues. All she needed (and was able to unde...
by wolf359
Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:54 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Annuity w guaranteed 5-6% return [payout]?
Replies: 50
Views: 4471

Re: Annuity w guaranteed 5-6% return?

Depending on their ages, 5-6% is a possible return for a single-premium annuity. The SPIA "yield" does increase with the prevailing interest rate. But an increase in interest rate of 1% causes an increase in payout rate of less than 1%. https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadepfau/2015/08/25/annuity-prici...
by wolf359
Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:44 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Annuity w guaranteed 5-6% return [payout]?
Replies: 50
Views: 4471

Re: Annuity w guaranteed 5-6% return?

Check out immediate annuities (http://immediateannuities.com) and get a price quote. Depending upon their age and terms, it is possible to get a 5-6% return. The reason for the good return is that some of the return is return of capital, and some is in the form of "mortality credits," which is the p...
by wolf359
Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:58 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is Lockheed Martin about to become the biggest company in history?
Replies: 66
Views: 6399

Re: Is Lockheed Martin about to become the biggest company in history?

Boy, I could put that on my house instead of solar panels. DIY.

:D
by wolf359
Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:46 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: adding adult child to Homeowners deed
Replies: 12
Views: 826

Re: adding adult child to Homeowners deed

I suggest reading "Beyond the Grave: The Right Way and the Wrong Way of Leaving Money To Your Children (and Others)" [Gerald M. Condon, Jeffery L. Condon]. It's a very eye-opening read about what can go wrong, and how. In addition to the advice, there are detailed stories collected over years of pra...
by wolf359
Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:53 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: What is the endgame for Millennials?
Replies: 128
Views: 8950

Re: What is the endgame for Millennials?

The "financial independence, retire early" (FIRE) philosophy seems to have been discovered by Gen Xers and Millennials, not Baby Boomers or the Silent Generation. It's not just GenX and Millennials. I've been finding references to early retirement in surprising locations and times. The difference i...
by wolf359
Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:41 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Muni bonds and WSJ article.
Replies: 12
Views: 1488

Re: Muni bonds and WSJ article.

I agree with Taylor, and that is why I hold exactly that fund in my taxable account. However, since I also worry, I am concerned that we may face a situation where it turns out the rating agencies didn't do their due diligence, and that the ratings are wrong. My trust in those same rating agencies t...