Search found 1677 matches

by reggiesimpson
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:37 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: "Living comfortably in retirement"
Replies: 71
Views: 11106

Re: "Living comfortably in retirement"

For me the definition is: Be able to do what you want and have your portfolio grow at the same time. +1 I going to have to disagree with this. It is an irrelevant metric. You can have a more than comfortable retirement, having a declining portfolio and still have a considerable safety margin. I believe the term is "comfortable". I for one never feel comfortable with a declining portfolio. That considerable safety margin is eroding....not good IMHO. All safe withdrawal rates are based on consuming at least some of the starting portfolio on average. The vast majority of people (including Bogleheads) consume some of their starting portfolio in retirement. Far too many people put the majority of their retirement portfolio in principl...
by reggiesimpson
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:51 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: "Living comfortably in retirement"
Replies: 71
Views: 11106

Re: "Living comfortably in retirement"

Spirit Rider wrote: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:46 pm
reggiesimpson wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:45 pm
Time2Quit wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:09 am For me the definition is: Be able to do what you want and have your portfolio grow at the same time.
+1
I going to have to disagree with this. It is an irrelevant metric.

You can have a more than comfortable retirement, having a declining portfolio and still have a considerable safety margin.
I believe the term is "comfortable". I for one never feel comfortable with a declining portfolio. That considerable safety margin is eroding....not good IMHO.
by reggiesimpson
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:09 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: "Living comfortably in retirement"
Replies: 71
Views: 11106

Re: "Living comfortably in retirement"

midareff wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:49 am It's meaning to us .... all base living expenses covered with annuities (pension and SS) and investments produce sufficient income for liberal international travel and luxuries. SWAN every night. We could move to bigger and/or better but are comfortable right where we are.
+1
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:46 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Why do you need to protect the asset, and from whom? Protect it from anyone. Its our sons inheritance and while we want to see him use it while we are alive we dont want litigation, divorce etc to jeopardize it. reggie Your son is an adult. I'm sure that he can take the proper legal precautions to protect his inheritance. The prenup would protect his inheritance and a family trust would protect him in case of litigation. It sounds like you either don't have faith in his abilities or you want something in place to insure that they will be onsite caregivers in later years. My son has lived out of state for 6 years and out of the house for 13 years. He is an adult who is and has been fully and gainfully employed for years. He brought up a pre...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:39 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Cossack1 wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:32 pm Can a moderator close this topic. We are all wasting our time.
People keep asking questions so i answer them. Some are actually new and informative so i will answer. But i will only answer one more tonight as i was up till 2am last night deep in this discussion. See you all tmrw.
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:30 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

roymeo wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:28 pm "girlfriend" needs more definition these days as it's not the 1950's (or 1980's) anymore. How financially bound are they?
He and she are willing to take a mortgage out together for the purpose of buying a house and starting a family. They will be married in the near future. Sounds like a pretty close relationship to me.
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:29 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

junior wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:21 pm I'm also confused at the reference to mortgage insurance.

I'm not aware of any type of mortgage insurance that protects your investment in the property or your son or girlfriend's equity.

It protects the lender if they have to foreclose and they are still losing money after they take your entire investment in the property.

It would not be a factor in the transaction you describe since your large down-payment should satisfy the lender that the transaction will be profitable if they foreclose on you.
I have never used this type of insurance and i am not quite sure what you are asking. If the mortgage is paid off you still have your investment.....the house.
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:25 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Girlfriends parents need a place to live due to their financial situation, or one of her parents dies and the other one needs a place to live. What is son gonna say when wife says "my mom needs to move into the MIL unit, it's our house"? One of the dozens or hundreds of scenarios you can't plan for or anticipate. Since you all have attorneys already, it won't be anything unfamiliar as you all sue and counter sue each other. But think of all the money you'll save not having to travel to visit your son or his future children, your grandchildren. There is some probability that it will all work out even after everyone signs the multitude of agreements, prenups, and other legal paperwork that any loving, caring family would have spent...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:15 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

letsgobobby wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:54 pm Why do you need to protect the asset, and from whom?
Protect it from anyone. Its our sons inheritance and while we want to see him use it while we are alive we dont want litigation, divorce etc to jeopardize it.
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:12 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

RetiredArtist wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:01 pm Attorney said because real estate law addresses real estate, while contract law is general, the language covered by real estate law is is more generally agreed upon. Attorney was promoting condo ownership as being better, because it is covered by real estate law. As I understood it, tenant in common agreements are only covered by contract law.
I think a written tenants in common agreement that covers many possibilities is much better than no written agreement. It is analogous to having an estate plan. What happens if person A dies, person B remarries, person A's heirs want to sell, etc?
Note that I worked in the arts, not law--ask your attorney why a tenants in common agreement will be useful for you & your son!
Thank you.
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:54 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

JustinR wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:50 pm This is hilarious.

I'll need an update here every 5 years.

Also, will be waiting for the inevitable reddit post by OP, son, girlfriend, or random new owner the ex-girlfriend sold her share to, on /r/bestoflegaladvice
[/quote
If im still around.....lol.
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:27 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

I have been a tenant in common in a residential property for decades. We finally got around to having a real estate attorney draw up a tenants in common agreement. It addresses many "what ifs". The attorney said the tenants in common agreement is based on general contract law. If disputes arise, legal action might be more problematic. I gifted a partial down payment to my not yet married kid, and suggested a pre-nup. I think it was good for them to discuss what might happen in case of divorce, death, etc. If you decide to take title as a tenant in common, ask your real estate attorney about the utility of a tenants in common agreement. You said "legal action might be more problematic" do you mean its more problematic wi...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:22 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Mortgage insurance may be another option. But as we are getting older and they are eager the time is now to get this show on the road. Thank you. reggie Again, what is this mortgage insurance you are referring to? I genuinely want to know. I’d also caution that the more complex the arrangement, the more likely lawyers will need to be involved if things go sour. Perhaps the lawyer is seeing dollar signs by including the GF. Finally, if everything works out you will never see your initial investment because you won’t be around. That should be your goal in all of this. While i have never used it its an insurance that pays off the lender in case of the default of a mortgage. Well i had to go by what the lawyer recommended and it certainly made...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:14 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Reggie, I still do not understand why a simple gift is not the best option (Occam's razor). You can afford it and it avoids all encumbrances. Why not? [/quote A contribution and partial ownership on title passed the attys smell test to protect our asset. Gifting would not. This was his recommendation not ours. Thank you. reggie Did you ask the attorney how many of these situation become a social issue later? That would be a good person to answer that EXACT question. It is like asking an estate lawyer, "Can't I name a corporate trustee for my money?" The answer is yes, but if you ask would you recommend it the answer is nearly ALWAYS no. Good luck. I am sure they can all become issues at any time. There will and has been issues al...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:07 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

No one has said it's a criminal act. What people are reacting to is that you have A LOT of expectations around this "help"/"gift". You've said it's: -early inheritance and money you don't need BUT you want to retain upside/control via ownership -payment for future lodging and eldercare -equity (and upside) in the home without for all the carrying costs -for son, Gf and future grandkids BUT protected from GF/DIL The same dollars can't meet all these expectations and someone will be disappointed to say the least. +1, also: There's this: We live 5 hrs away and have no intention of moving in but we are simply tired of staying in hotels. But then this: ...the need to take care of grandchildren and eventually grandparents is ...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:52 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

letsgobobby wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:43 pm Reggie, I still do not understand why a simple gift is not the best option (Occam's razor). You can afford it and it avoids all encumbrances. Why not?
[/quote

A contribution and partial ownership on title passed the attys smell test to protect our asset. Gifting would not. This was his recommendation not ours. Thank you.
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son

....The legal agreement she signs stipulates that the house is sold immediately if they break up in advance. This in itself would be a deal-breaker for me. Giving a 25% owner of a somewhat illiquid asset the right to force an immediate sale on demand would not be a reasonable condition of any arms-length partnership. What if the RE market is very bad? What if the market is good but you have a strong reason to push cap gains into the next year because you have already a big cap gains in this year? What if you have already purchased plane tickets for a visit with your son in 4 months time and it will be inconvenient not to have the place to stay in? And I know from painful experience that getting mutual agreement on terms of sale and divisio...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:48 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Reggie, I wish you and your family all the best in this decision. On paper it all looks like a pretty good idea, but statistically the odds of this plan going well is very poor. It is just a fact as there are so many things that can go wrong with a high chance of failure when adding them all up. I hope you reconsider this decision for everyone’s sake, but if you are still going ahead, once again I wish you the best and that everything works out as planned. Thank you. I have no illusions and that why i am still asking questions. Thank you reggie There is a difference between asking questions when you are really open minded on what decision to make and asking questions when you have already made the decision. It is like when my wife asks, &q...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:50 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

OP seems to have blinders on with respect to being able to unequivocally "recover" his full investment in the property (which likely forms the bulk of the down payment) if son and gf split up and sell the house. Let's assume $1mil property, half of which is owned by OP, and the other half owned by son and gf (and the bank). And then the son and gf split up in the middle of a recession after property has tanked 25% in value. OP's share of the property is now $375k (capital loss of $125k), and may become even less if the son and gf need his help to bail them out of the underwater mortgage. So OP, you can't have your cake and eat it too. As others have mentioned, only enter this agreement if you are prepared to lose your money. And ...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:40 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

sd323232 wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:54 pm I agree, not much can be said here. Lets wish OP well with this decision, may be it will all work out for him!

This is why i come to this forum. People here will give best advice no matter how much it is painful to hear.
Thank you i appreciate the comment. I agree that BH is such a top notch site to come to to hear all including the warts. Very important and always illuminating. Fortunately over the years a culture of civility (along with moderation of course) has made the discussions that more relevant. Thank you.
reggie.
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:36 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Stinky wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:29 pm OP, best of luck to you.

You’re about to make the mistake of a lifetime, as detailed by so many folks above. There are so many ways this is a bad idea. I won’t attempt to repeat anything from above, but the comments are very solid and are based on much personal experience.

I wish you well.
Thank you. Yes its still a work in progress. I have to suspect that as more people reach our age they may well look around and wonder how to spend their remaining years in a fruit full manner. For us so far its this. Thank you.
reggie.
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:54 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

To me, this sounds like in-laws wanting to buy a time-share in their unmarried son's future home. No. No. No. There is a world of separation between lending or gifting money for a down payment, and the expectation that one will have a place when visiting or for longer term when older. Too many variables. Gift them the money. Continue to use a hotel, AirB+B or just stay with them when you visit. With no kids and a four bedroom house, there should be plenty of room. Sorry if this offends you, but up to this point, you HAVE pretty much shot down every comment made as to why NOT. To me, it sounds a whole lot like someone trying to convince someone else in spite of the overwhelming evidence. You seem determined no matter what. I can see down th...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:27 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Flyer24 wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:23 pm Where did someone accuse you of extortion?
Yes i just went looking for it myself. Interestingly a large portion of one response was edited out so i suspect thats where it was.
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:13 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

50% want to live NEAR their adult children. That is not even remotely the same as under the same roof. I agree with the idea of gifting him the money, he has 75% and she has 25%, and you stay with them when you visit. If the time comes that you want to move there, I would think that a great guest cottage (in law dwelling) could be built on that 1+ acre, if as you say towns are changing zoning ordinances. —one more thought: bringing significant amounts of money into a familial relationship makes things weird. Money and power tend to be linked, and unless someone is a complete saint, the presence of this financial entanglement is going to affect what should be a relaxed and affectionate relationship between the generations. If you have a goo...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:08 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

There's only so much coverage the law can give you when someone is dishonest, greedy, or out to get someone. Sure you can hire lawyers and that will cost everyone a lot of money. That's true in any type of relationship whether business, marriage, or family. My point is that you are taking a lot of steps to try to prevent your son from losing part of his inheritance through divorce despite not being married right now but the complexities you are creating to manage that could create legal jeopardies that are both more likely and higher consequence than the original problem. My suggestion is gifting your son money for the down payment (and if there is another child doing the same). If your family culture includes a high degree of respect for ...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:03 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son

3 My wife and i have made it very clear that it is their home not ours. Its their "time" now. We are on the "way out". We are visiting. Yes the time may extend as we get much older but as we pointed out to my son, and as his gf already knows, you two are fortunate to have 4 intact grandparents ( hers live very close) who are not dead, divorced or disabled and thus are a wonderful resource for you when the children come along. So this poor couple might some day be responsible for 4 grandparents and 4 parents? Good thing one of them is a nurse! 4 As far as home ownership trials and tribulations i could only warn them that they are going from a 2 bed condo HOA to a 4/5 bed 3200+ sqr ft home on an acre + with all the costs ...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:58 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Rus In Urbe wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:46 pm Came upon OP's comment that he plans to do the same with the other child, a daughter.

Reading suggestion:

KING LEAR by William Shakespeare

.
I would make her the same offer. The decisions , as was my sons, is up to her. Thank you.
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:56 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

The Outsider wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:45 pm
HueyLD wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:39 am What would you do if the girlfriend sold her 1/4 ownership to an old boyfriend or her mother? That's what tenants in common means.
What would happen if there are grandkids and S & GF split or grandkids and S & W divorce? Would grandkids get evicted? Son definitely could. What happens when wife remarries and new husband moves in?

Would you still use in law suite:)? Remember possession is 9/10th blah, blah ,blah

I'm playing devils advocate. Personally I think its admirable you're trying to help loved ones and are doing your independent due diligence. BH is a good part of your DD.

Best of luck to you all!
Still seeking legal advice on that front. Thank you.
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:55 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

I have not read this thread in detail so I apologize if anything that I say his redundant. I was once conservator and then executor for a relative who had property in another state. Even though the property was not worth much, it created a nightmare administration wise. As conservator, I had to deal with probate court issues in two states instead of one. After the relative died, I discovered the state in which the property was in had different estate and inheritance laws, which necessitated spending a small fortune in time and money hiring a lawyer to address these, including completing a federal estate return, which would not have been necessary under the laws of the state that he actually lived in. Trust me, a federal estate tax return i...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:50 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

wander wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:27 pm I would not do it My reason is very simple: when things go smooth, it is fine, when thing goes sour you will potentially lose your son. I would do it if I think it is a gift that I can lose it without blinking my eyes. And even if I can lose the money, I rather give it to my son than to end of with battle in court there I may lose the money and also lose a son. It happened in my friends’ family, people are now not looking at each other.
Yes we are aware of this potential problem. It will be largely mitigated by only visiting and not living there. Neither my wife and i want a Hotel staying relationship. This was discussed with my son a long time ago. He agrees. Thank you.
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:34 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Mlm wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:48 am If you want to go 50/50 on the deed with your son...have at it. However your son should consult his own attorney and obtain the mortgage in his name only if unmarried.
I will tell him. Actually i will ask both of them to read this thread so they can make up their own mind. I have already asked my wife to read this thread but i have been answering everyone for the last 3.5 hours....lol. Thank you.
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:14 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Make sure you understand the legalities. I never heard of "joint tenants in common." There is joint tenancy with right of survivorship, and there is tenancy in common in which each fractional share is separately owned. I doubt a typical mortgage loan would be supported by tenancy in common. The only way it would work would be for you to subordinate the fee interest in your half, but that isn't a standard mortgage product. With a joint tenancy you would be required to sign the mortgage document but would be exculpated from the loan, but you would not be exculpated from all the other covenants and agreements such as to maintain the property and pay the taxes and keep it insured. Get good legal advise before you do this. Thank you. ...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:08 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

I have not read this thread in detail so I apologize if anything that I say his redundant. I was once conservator and then executor for a relative who had property in another state. Even though the property was not worth much, it created a nightmare administration wise. As conservator, I had to deal with probate court issues in two states instead of one. After the relative died, I discovered the state in which the property was in had different estate and inheritance laws, which necessitated spending a small fortune in time and money hiring a lawyer to address these, including completing a federal estate return, which would not have been necessary under the laws of the state that he actually lived in. Trust me, a federal estate tax return i...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:03 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

HueyLD wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:39 am What would you do if the girlfriend sold her 1/4 ownership to an old boyfriend or her mother? That's what tenants in common means.
Well they do plan on getting married but i will ask that question with our atty. Thank you.
reggie.
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:01 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

My wife and i plan on buying a home with our son and his girlfriend in the near future. We will contribute 50% of the sale price to the purchase and my son and GF will come up with the other half via their assets and mortgage combo. We plan on contributing the 50% and not making it a gift or a loan. The stipulation is that our name goes on the title as 50% owner and there be an in law apartment so when we visit ( he is out of state) we have a place to stay instead of airbnb and hotels. I would appreciate BH learned comments on the matter. Thank you. reggie Did something similar with my father. Do not do this. Period. We haven’t spoken in over a decade. Im sorry to hear that. I think our situation is mitigated by the fact we are not living ...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:00 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

EnjoyIt wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:00 am Reggie,
I wish you and your family all the best in this decision. On paper it all looks like a pretty good idea, but statistically the odds of this plan going well is very poor. It is just a fact as there are so many things that can go wrong with a high chance of failure when adding them all up. I hope you reconsider this decision for everyone’s sake, but if you are still going ahead, once again I wish you the best and that everything works out as planned.
Thank you. I have no illusions and that why i am still asking questions. Thank you
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:58 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

For me, the big problem is, they're not married! They haven't permanently committed to each other; why would you fund a situation that only works if they eventually get engaged, marry, and don't divorce? Working within the resources that you have is important for building the marriage partnership; I've seen situations where the financial support by parents seemed to both get the couple into higher mortgage, etc. than they should have, and make separating easier! Even though your name isn't on the mortgage, if they don't keep up with it you're going to be looking at losing your investment; you may end up paying just to not lose the house. In that way it's very similar to the question, "Should I co-sign for my kid's car loan?" (ans...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:52 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

jaydub71 wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:46 am
Jags4186 wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:36 am There are just two much better options.

1) gift them the money
2) buy the house, let them “rent to own”

You don’t want to do 1) because you want control. You don’t want to do 2) because they aren’t beholden to you (no “skin in the game”)

So you’ve developed an incredibly subprime way of accomplishing your goal.

That’s the pushback you’re getting.

Here’s a suggestion. Show your son and the girlfriend this thread and see what they think. Maybe they haven’t thought about all this.
Rent to own is an interesting idea that I think you should investigate further.
Yes we will. Thank you.
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:51 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son

As i stated repeatedly. I am looking for BH advice. I didnt come here completely ignorant with a Tabula Raza mentality. Just because i have countered almost every argument that finds fault with this concept doesnt mean i dont want to listen or that i havent sought other advice and thought through this entire process. I have taken many notes on the advice given hear and will act on it. Thank you. reggie Can you give an example of a piece of advice within this thread that has changed your thinking? Because from what I've read, you're ignoring the excellent points brought up by several posters. I get it, no one likes their brilliant idea shot down by others. Lord knows I've gotten overly defensive in discussions. But this conversation would b...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:30 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

I would observe that these threads about financially assisting children buy a home seem to always elicit the same range of responses: 1) let them figure it out on their own, have them stand on their own two feet! 2) So much can go wrong, entering into arrangments that mix assets, are in the boundary between loans/gifts/inheritance are bound to be problematic. 3) Never mix family (or friends) and money. These are all individual judgments/perceptions that might apply in any one's experience but are not universally relevant. To counteract the majority of commenters: 1) NONE of us stand on our own two feet, even orphans growing up in dire circumstance depend on the actions of others (who is at work providing the electricity I use at 2 AM on Ch...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:18 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

50% want to live NEAR their adult children. That is not even remotely the same as under the same roof. I agree with the idea of gifting him the money, he has 75% and she has 25%, and you stay with them when you visit. If the time comes that you want to move there, I would think that a great guest cottage (in law dwelling) could be built on that 1+ acre, if as you say towns are changing zoning ordinances. —one more thought: bringing significant amounts of money into a familial relationship makes things weird. Money and power tend to be linked, and unless someone is a complete saint, the presence of this financial entanglement is going to affect what should be a relaxed and affectionate relationship between the generations. If you have a goo...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:09 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

There are just two much better options. 1) gift them the money 2) buy the house, let them “rent to own” You don’t want to do 1) because you want control. You don’t want to do 2) because they aren’t beholden to you (no “skin in the game”) So you’ve developed an incredibly subprime way of accomplishing your goal. That’s the pushback you’re getting. Here’s a suggestion. Show your son and the girlfriend this thread and see what they think. Maybe they haven’t thought about all this. We wont gift the money because we do not want to risk its loss to litigation, divorce etc. Its inheritance money and it will stay that way. If you want to call that "control" so be it. I would expect her parents to do exactly the same thing if things were ...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:58 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

50% want to live NEAR their adult children. That is not even remotely the same as under the same roof. I agree with the idea of gifting him the money, he has 75% and she has 25%, and you stay with them when you visit. If the time comes that you want to move there, I would think that a great guest cottage (in law dwelling) could be built on that 1+ acre, if as you say towns are changing zoning ordinances. Again, we are not living there we are visiting there. Our home is in another state as is our daughter. Gifting doesnt resolve asset protection while a contribution/ partial ownership does. Livable guest cottages are illegal imany if not all of the towns anywhere near the city as the zoning boards fear illegal renting. We already went throu...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:50 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

Hey Reggie - this has been a very interesting post. Your children sound successful, responsible and close to their families emotionally. The fact that you want to entertain this endeavor together speaks volumes about your relationship among the 4 of you. Therefore, I recommend go for it. Regardless of what happens in the future. I'm reminded of ancient people, recent immigrants, extended families across the globe who benefit from the closeness, warmth and ease of being together. We laud and applaud successful 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation family businesses. They are benchmarks/milestones we admire. They had to start somewhere as a family enterprise - it's all about trust. Trust your gut on this one and enjoy what comes. Thank you. I sincerel...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:47 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son

Yes his GF is involved but must sign an agreement that stipulates the house must be sold immediately if they split up before marriage. Mortgage insurance will handle death. If they lose their jobs the house will be sold and they would rent. Thank you. reggie Some people just split up for a couple weeks and get back together. Putting the house on the market immediately is going to ensure that they never get back together. (Is that your plan?) How about: Gift the money to your son and have your son be 75% owner and the girlfriend 25% owner. If they break up, let them figure out what to do with the house. It's quite possible one of them would agree to buy out the other. Or live together in the house (temporarily) without being BF/GF. Or a mil...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:43 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

My wife and i plan on buying a home with our son and his girlfriend in the near future. We will contribute 50% of the sale price to the purchase and my son and GF will come up with the other half via their assets and mortgage combo. We plan on contributing the 50% and not making it a gift or a loan. The stipulation is that our name goes on the title as 50% owner and there be an in law apartment so when we visit ( he is out of state) we have a place to stay instead of airbnb and hotels. I would appreciate BH learned comments on the matter. Thank you. reggie reggie, I believe this is a bad idea. Just give your son the money and let him do with it what he wants. Hopefully your relationship is such that he will happily have him stay with you w...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:40 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son

Well i certainly understand those concerns but. The areas that have the better school systems (think grandchildren) are beyond their reach but not ours. So we help. If he could afford to do this comfortably on their own they may have gone for it but they cant and maybe they never will be able as the homes in solid school districts within job commute are astronomical. I took the long view with him when i first brought this up. Not just the money to help purchase and maintain a home but the presence of grandparents ( hers live nearby) to help taking care of future grandchildren as one example of an asset thats non financial. As i mentioned earlier Asian, Hispanic and Black cultures have always embraced multigenerational living as the norm an...
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:34 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

crz1 wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:55 am I suggest parents buy the house then rent to son. Parents are landlord, take depreciation, then pass to son as inheritance, step up basis, no need to pay tax.
Without their having skin in the game (they are also putting down cash) renting has its own set of issues. Thank you.
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:31 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

lthenderson wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:05 am OP - After reading this thread, I can't find a single person who thinks this is a good idea. Are you really seeking advice or validation of a decision you've already made?

My advice is that you buy a house a rent it to your son until such time he can pay you back for it. But I don't expect that to change your mind as it is obviously made up.
I am looking for further advice from BH because i respect this forum. Otherwise i wouldnt have stayed up til 2 am last night responding. Renting means he and his gf have no skin in the game. They will end up resenting us. Not exactly the relationship we want. Thank you.
reggie
by reggiesimpson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:26 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]
Replies: 169
Views: 16033

Re: Buying house with son [and his girlfriend]

novillero wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:54 am If you thought it was a good idea, you wouldn’t have asked strangers for their opinion.
I respect BH opinions. Thats why i am here. Thank you.
'reggie.