Search found 2122 matches

by longinvest
Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:52 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Vanguard Extended Duration Treasury ETF (EDV)
Replies: 6
Views: 331

Re: Vanguard Extended Duration Treasury ETF (EDV)

Do NOT buy this fund. It is very volatile and not really bond-like. The 30% return over last year is good only for existing investors and automatically means worse returns going forward (because of the reduced yield that caused price appreciation); new investors are getting a significantly worse de...
by longinvest
Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:06 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Vanguard Extended Duration Treasury ETF (EDV)
Replies: 6
Views: 331

Re: Vanguard Extended Duration Treasury ETF (EDV)

any thoughts about Vanguard Extended Duration Treasury ETF (EDV). I am looking to invest in bonds as a proper assets allocation strategy. Seeing this etf the return is 30 % in last one years !!! what is the catch in this one. ? is it if you invest in it you get locked in for long term ? Rambojani, ...
by longinvest
Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:55 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?
Replies: 264
Views: 16481

Re: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?

Considering how cautious you sound (to me, a beginner), I would have thought that you would Not find holding 75% of portfolio in stocks acceptable, and quote a more conservative expert instead. Lieutenant.Columbo, It is easy to be pictured as a very conservative investor as soon as one argues in fa...
by longinvest
Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:41 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?
Replies: 264
Views: 16481

Re: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?

Siamond,

Your choice of which parts of my last post not to quote in your reply is most interesting.
by longinvest
Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:29 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?
Replies: 264
Views: 16481

Re: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?

Siamond, If we come back to the original post, there is simply NO numerical evidence against the idea of using a 100% AA as an accumulator, notably for a young accumulator. This statement is false. Japan should be numerical evidence enough. Don't forget to count the number of threads about "do ...
by longinvest
Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:01 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?
Replies: 264
Views: 16481

Re: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?

Siamond and Knpstr, In PortfolioVisualizer, a comparison of Windsor and Wellington starts in 1985 and, because of that, reveals a different chart. I'll leave the exercise of looking it up to readers. That would be pointless, though. The points I was trying to make were: ⋅  While, by nature...
by longinvest
Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:03 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Should synthetic ETFs be avoided?
Replies: 33
Views: 1725

Re: Should synthetic ETFs be avoided?

A synthetic ETF is like a giant corporate bond (or a set of giant corporate bonds, in case of multiple counterparties) wrapping the returns of the underlying asset class. In other words, it adds concentration risk. The problem, in my opinion, is that one is not rewarded for taking on the additional ...
by longinvest
Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:06 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?
Replies: 264
Views: 16481

Re: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?

Knpstr, I have difficulty finding any definition of risk where holding a widely-diversified stock portfolio for 30 years is less risky than holding a 30-year Treasury Inflation-Protected Security (TIPS) for 30 years. Can you help me understand? Gladly, Buffett continues: It is true, of course, that...
by longinvest
Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:49 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?
Replies: 264
Views: 16481

Re: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?

By the same logic, why give up 15% of the money for the elusive safety of the 60/40 portfolio which shows up once a decade when you are in control on when you need access to the money? Randomguy, I thought that Bogleheads investing was about prudent investing, not about maximizing potential returns...
by longinvest
Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:34 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?
Replies: 264
Views: 16481

Re: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?

Hence why Warren Buffett stated: "The unconventional, but inescapable, conclusion to be drawn from the past fifty years is that it has been far safer to invest in a diversified collection of American businesses than to invest in securities — Treasuries, for example — whose values have been tie...
by longinvest
Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:10 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?
Replies: 264
Views: 16481

Re: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?

In 2008-2009, the 100% stocks investor's portfolio lost $241,939 (20 years of contributions) going down from $506,647 to $264,708. The 60% stocks / 40% bonds investor's portfolio lost $127,761 (10 years of contributions) going down from $450,454 to $322,693. All this volatility for what? By the end...
by longinvest
Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:03 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Two-Step Rebalancing
Replies: 48
Views: 4275

Re: Two-Step Rebalancing -- to keep both emotions and risk in check

will you (please) ever link your quarterly-withdrawals VPW spreadsheet in the VPW BH wiki site? That's unlikely. My personal spreadsheet is customized for my personal circumstances. It's a lot of work to build a generic spreadsheet. It is my opinion that the current VPW spreadsheet, with annual wit...
by longinvest
Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:56 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?
Replies: 264
Views: 16481

Re: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?

http://i64.tinypic.com/zx2nes.jpg Do note your orange line start later than your blue! Though it probably makes little difference. Stick vwelx on there too and see how well 100% stocks really has done. As we're discussing an investor in accumulation phase, it would be more appropriate to show a com...
by longinvest
Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:36 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?
Replies: 264
Views: 16481

Re: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?

All this volatility for what? By the end of August 2016, almost 24 years after the initial $10,000 investment, the 100% stocks portfolio is barely 22% ahead in the midst of a bull market started 7 years ago in 2009. Not sure I'd say "barely 22%". 22% of a big number is a medium number. Lo...
by longinvest
Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:58 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?
Replies: 264
Views: 16481

Re: Help Me Understand: Why Shouldn't AA Be 100% Stocks During Accumulation Phase?

http://i64.tinypic.com/zx2nes.jpg Do note your orange line start later than your blue! Though it probably makes little difference. Stick vwelx on there too and see how well 100% stocks really has done. As we're discussing an investor in accumulation phase, it would be more appropriate to show a com...
by longinvest
Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:25 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Asset Allocation Guide
Replies: 18
Views: 1810

Re: Asset Allocation Guide

I understand what you're saying. Risk/ riskless is the terminology most people use, but I do understand there are no riskless assets. I should probably replace risky with growth and riskless with protection, as per the suggestion of another forum member, since they're more indicative of the actual ...
by longinvest
Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:00 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Asset Allocation Guide
Replies: 18
Views: 1810

Re: Asset Allocation Guide

I see many risks, in investing, besides volatility . So, for me, all financial assets are risky , one way or another. Really! If cash had no risk, I wouldn't invest into anything else. Why would I? Why would I risk money I need for money I don't need? The reality is that even though cash is not vol...
by longinvest
Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:54 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Asset Allocation Guide
Replies: 18
Views: 1810

Re: Asset Allocation Guide

Here's a longer explanation of my view. I wrote that post a while ago: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=183986#p2790463 Here's what we know . There are mostly three types of securities that pay investors to hold them: ⋅  Cash, which pays interests. (Savings account...
by longinvest
Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:40 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Asset Allocation Guide
Replies: 18
Views: 1810

Re: Asset Allocation Guide

I see many risks, in investing, besides volatility . So, for me, all financial assets are risky , one way or another. Really! If cash had no risk, I wouldn't invest into anything else. Why would I? Why would I risk money I need for money I don't need? The reality is that even though cash is not vola...
by longinvest
Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:48 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: An "out of sample" test of two specific factor-based portfolios published pre-2008
Replies: 76
Views: 5055

Re: An "out of sample" test of two specific factor-based portfolios published pre-2008

Annualized return % / SD / Sharpe / Growth in $10,000 DFA “Balanced” (without advisor fee) = 8.34 / 13.64 / 0.57 / $34,146 DFA “Balanced” (with 1% advisor fee) = 7.28 / 13.62 / 0.57 / $29,368 How can the Sharpe ratio remain identical with a difference of over 1% in returns and a similar standard va...
by longinvest
Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:52 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "Factor investing"
Replies: 192
Views: 12687

Re: "Factor investing"

"The beauty of owning the market is that you eliminate individual stock risk, you eliminate market sector risk, and you eliminate manager risk. -- There may be better investment strategies than owning just three broad-based index funds but the number of strategies that are worse is infinite.&q...
by longinvest
Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:38 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "Factor investing"
Replies: 192
Views: 12687

Re: "Factor investing"

"The beauty of owning the market is that you eliminate individual stock risk, you eliminate market sector risk, and you eliminate manager risk. -- There may be better investment strategies than owning just three broad-based index funds but the number of strategies that are worse is infinite.&q...
by longinvest
Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:28 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "Factor investing"
Replies: 192
Views: 12687

Re: "Factor investing"

The main motivation of our mentor Jack Bogle to start the first publicly available index fund was not the "efficiency" of total-market indexing; it was the simpler fact that it was a cheap way (due to its minimal turnover*) to harvest the returns of the market. This is what he called the &...
by longinvest
Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:10 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: VPW and TSP

I might not have explained my situation clearly. My retirement plan just let's me set my "monthly withdrawal rate" once a year, but the monthly withdrawals have to come from the portfolio itself. So I guess if my VPW chart says "4%" (for instance) for a given year, I'll just set...
by longinvest
Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:18 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: VPW and TSP

As the author of VPW, what was your take on my situation? Do you think its a big deal if I just have monthly withdrawals taken from the portfolio itself, instead of a year's worth of cash set aside? It's actually part of the VPW method to have it set aside, so I just wondered what you thought of th...
by longinvest
Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:10 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: VPW and TSP

In VPW, it's defined when you'll pass 10%. It's at age 88 with a 50/50 (see the VPW chart here https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Variable_percentage_withdrawal). Granted, it won't be 10% for the entire year because you're spending it. At age 88, my non-discretionary expenses will be covered by SS, pe...
by longinvest
Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:27 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)

OK, one last set of answers. everything being equal the percentages of withdrawal will be the same regardless of whether the portfolio is worth $5M or $1M correct? Yes. please, remind me how VPW takes inflation into account, if it does; or maybe VPW is not concerned with inflation, if so disregard I...
by longinvest
Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:43 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)

again: I was not asking about using a modified-VPW approach at all, I was not suggesting a withdrawal method lower than VPW's or even lower than 4% , BUT about how to calculate how much one should consider retiring on, so that one does not find oneself in Mr White's predicament Lieutenant.Columbo, ...
by longinvest
Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:34 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)

Lieutenant.Columbo, My questions to you is: Do you think that it be necessary/cautious to multiply the ratio of VPW percentages by a percentage smaller than "4" (instead of multiplying by "4), in order to account/plan for a possibly-longer-than-30-yrs retirement? I have already answer...
by longinvest
Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:55 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: Variable Percentage Withdrawal

I think that selecting a statistical database which ranges over one's full lifespan would not be as useful as statistics starting from age 65. Retirement planning starts at 65 (more or less). Once you've made it this far (age 65), all of the causes for dying before 65 have been removed from the sta...
by longinvest
Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:41 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)

Lieutenant.Columbo,

I just don't understand your question. How do you get a longer retirement without retiring earlier?
by longinvest
Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:33 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)

Lieutenant.Columbo, 1. in your recommendation regarding how much those retiring early should accumulate, you first suggest how to calculate the % to start withdrawing from the portfolio when early retiring, but later on you recommend using cash-like products to hold the money that will be used durin...
by longinvest
Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:32 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)

The VPW wiki says to withdraw the specified percentage at the beginning of the year, then re-balance. But any normal boglehead-type portfolio will be providing interest and dividends of roughly 2-2.5% during the year. So do you estimate the income from the portfolio at the beginning of the year, th...
by longinvest
Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:48 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)

Lieutenant.Columbo, I always withdraw the Full VPW amount from my Investment Portfolio into my Cash spending account. This cash is not part of my asset allocation, and will never be invested in anything other than Cash. The VPW withdrawal amount gets you to sell your Investments when the market is h...
by longinvest
Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:17 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)

Some food for thought: Once you hit 60, it’s time to take ‘carpe diem’ seriously , by Fred Vettese (Chief actuary of Morneau Shepell) Carpe diem is a Latin aphorism, usually translated " seize the day ", taken from book 1 of the Roman poet Horace's work Odes (23 BC). ( Wikipedia ) http://b...
by longinvest
Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:04 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)

What's the impact of changing the Last Withdrawal Age when reaching age 80? It's pretty easy to estimate. Given a 50/50 portfolio, the withdrawal percentage at 80 is 6.8% (See line 80 of the 50/50 column of the VPW Table ). If we want to update the last withdrawal age to 109, that's like going back ...
by longinvest
Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:29 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Variable Percentage Withdrawal (VPW)
Replies: 668
Views: 188957

Re: Variable Percentage Withdrawal

Lieutenant.Columbo, does the backtesting and other additional data in the other tabs support that VPW will be successful at not depleting your portfolio before the end of a, for example, 55 year retirement period is up (say for retirement at age 55 with depletion at age 110, for instance)? is the VP...
by longinvest
Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:28 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: retirement readiness = residual living expenses + funding the gap?
Replies: 45
Views: 3989

Re: retirement readiness = residual living expenses + funding the gap?

Freebeer, if we take Dr. Bernstein's rule of thumb of needing to have at least 17x residual living expenses to reasonably safely retire at age 70 as a given, then what's the simplest way to model what you need to retire with the same level of safety at a younger age (e.g. 55) with a gap until your i...
by longinvest
Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:51 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Two-Step Rebalancing
Replies: 48
Views: 4275

Re: Two-Step Rebalancing -- to keep both emotions and risk in check

in retirement you (will) withdraw 4 times a year, do (will) you withdraw each time one fourth of the amount resulting from calculating VPW at the beginning of the year? JLMA, The simplest approach would be to make a single portfolio withdrawal per year (during the first quarterly sell event), and t...
by longinvest
Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:07 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: retirement readiness = residual living expenses + funding the gap?
Replies: 45
Views: 3989

Re: retirement readiness = residual living expenses + funding the gap?

Personally, I consider nominal SPIAs as extremely risky when used to cover essential expenses because they are vulnerable to significant loss of power purchase after a long period of time. One of the primary goals of using a SPIA in a retirement plan is specifically to reduce the risk of not having ...
by longinvest
Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:54 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: retirement readiness = residual living expenses + funding the gap?
Replies: 45
Views: 3989

Re: retirement readiness = residual living expenses + funding the gap?

[...] to simply subtract the annuity's cost in five years from the cost today doesn't tell the whole story. If I buy an immediate annuity today, I begin collecting it today . If I wait five years, I need to get that income stream from elsewhere. A better comparison would be against the amount I'd h...
by longinvest
Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:55 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]
Replies: 1080
Views: 179073

Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Fieldsy1024 wrote:How can I check my number for this?

Thanks

Using the wiki:Calculating personal returns calculator. It can be used online (Google Sheets) or downloaded (Excel and LibreOffice).
by longinvest
Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:14 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Rebalancing under frequent trading constraints
Replies: 4
Views: 294

Re: Rebalancing under frequent trading constraints

You could consider Two-Step Rebalancing. It's what I do to deal with little annoying real-life problems such as wash sales. It would also circumvent frequent trading constraints.
by longinvest
Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:58 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is Vanguard's reported Yield-to-maturity a Yield-to-worst?
Replies: 2
Views: 421

Re: Is Vanguard's reported Yield-to-maturity a Yield-to-worst?

stlutz wrote:My understanding is "yes". I know iShares says so explicitly and the reported yields are in line with what VG reports for funds that are highly similar.

Thanks!
by longinvest
Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:43 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Is Vanguard's reported Yield-to-maturity a Yield-to-worst?
Replies: 2
Views: 421

Is Vanguard's reported Yield-to-maturity a Yield-to-worst?

I invest my bond allocation into a domestic total-market nominal bond index ETF. It's Vanguard Canada's Canadian Aggregate Bond Index ETF (VAB). Its benchmark is Barclays Global Aggregate Canadian Float Adjusted Bond Index . Among the various characteristics listed on the ETF's web page, there is a ...
by longinvest
Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:07 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SBBI Historical Bond Returns: are they inadequate?
Replies: 30
Views: 1467

Re: SBBI Historical Bond Returns: are they inadequate?

Hi: Please note that interest rates in the 1940's were subject to price controls and interest rate pegging. See ---> Interest Rate Controls: The United States in the 1940s on JSTOR Before the Accord: US Monetary - Fiscal Policy 1945 -1951 regards, Thanks, Barry. This should explain why yields didn'...
by longinvest
Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:10 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Historical Bond Returns - Shiller: From Rates to Returns
Replies: 174
Views: 14910

Re: Historical Bond Returns - Shiller: From Rates to Returns

One post on the SBBI thread which would probably be better discussed here: Note that the differences between the 10-2 and 10-4 model don't change things much. They both behave as intermediate funds, but the 10-4 model is somewhat more volatile due to its longer average duration. I like the 10-2 mod...
by longinvest
Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:40 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SBBI Historical Bond Returns: are they inadequate?
Replies: 30
Views: 1467

Re: SBBI Historical Bond Returns: are they inadequate?

We often read weird statements in the forums, like "short-term bonds offer a good protection against inflation". This is only true as long as yields adjust to inflation. Actually, intermediate bonds will probably remain a better investment in such case, because of the usually higher yields...
by longinvest
Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:30 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SBBI Historical Bond Returns: are they inadequate?
Replies: 30
Views: 1467

Re: SBBI Historical Bond Returns: are they inadequate?

One should not look at what happened in the 1940s as a "dip" or a "drawdown". It was a pure uncompensated one-time loss (or two-times loss, if you want to consider 1941-2 seprately from 1946-7). The fact that some 40 years later yields went up so much as to "recover" s...
by longinvest
Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:10 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: SBBI Historical Bond Returns: are they inadequate?
Replies: 30
Views: 1467

Re: SBBI Historical Bond Returns: are they inadequate?

An important point. I think a terminology issue results in a lot of confusion, argument, and IMHO sometimes-willful-misrepresentation of "the risks of bonds." The Treasury calls its fixed-income securities by three different names , "bills," "notes," and "bonds&qu...

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