Search found 396 matches

by kayanco
Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:45 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Vanguard Custody Question
Replies: 6
Views: 672

Re: Vanguard Custody Question

I stumbled on this thread while searching the same question as OP. 1. I was reading this article: https://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2017/06/05/the-bernie-madoff-fraud-five-lessons-for-investors-from-the-wizard-of-lies I noticed that Vanguard wasn't mentioned: "Some respected custody holde...
by kayanco
Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:20 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Uncle Pennybags wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:06 am
At this time Bitcoin is trading at $3,744, which amounts to a 26% drop from the record high of $5,020 hit on September 2.
Look for a dead cat bounce at $3,000
You turned out to be right. It went to 3000 and now rising up from there ...
by kayanco
Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:16 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Close to $3000, this BTC.
by kayanco
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:36 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Trusting Bitcoin [How do I protect my private key?]
Replies: 8
Views: 1015

Re: Trusting Bitcoin [How do I protect my private key?]

This question is a bit of a narrow issue, but a few of you are cryptocurrency enthusiasts. How do I ensure that my private key remains safe when transacting with it, when sending money from an address. From what I have been able to tell, private keys may be encrypted through BIP38, which itself use...
by kayanco
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:41 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Thanks for the link. It was an interesting read, but I'll guess that you are relying on technical analysis. Technical analysis is useless for predicting the future. I call them as I see them, much like picking the winner of a football game. Actually the "experts" are pumping a floor of $3000 so tha...
by kayanco
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:22 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Look for a dead cat bounce at $3,000 Can you explain this please, I'm not familiar with this reference. Let me search that for you. Thanks for the link. It was an interesting read, but I'll guess that you are relying on technical analysis. If so, please be careful, because that might get you in tro...
by kayanco
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:13 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Uncle Pennybags wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:06 am
Look for a dead cat bounce at $3,000
Can you explain this please, I'm not familiar with this reference.
by kayanco
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:38 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Price is below $4000 currently ... Any thoughts on when might be a good buying opportunity? Thanks. Sorry, I don't have any investment advice. I sold a a bunch of bitcoin at $18, so I learned my lesson about trying to time the market. Right, I guess that was a naive question. Maybe a human tendency...
by kayanco
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:17 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Uncle Pennybags wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:54 am
kayanco wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:38 am
Swelfie wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:36 pm
redstar wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:56 pm
Price is below $4000 currently ... Any thoughts on when might be a good buying opportunity?
2010 when it was six cents. Now is the time to sell.
That very well might be the case.
by kayanco
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:38 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Swelfie wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:36 pm
redstar wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:56 pm
Price is below $4000 currently ... Any thoughts on when might be a good buying opportunity?


Thanks.
by kayanco
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:24 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Uncle Pennybags wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:52 pm
kayanco wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:43 pm
I didn't know this. So John Bogle actually recommends setting aside some % as "play money".
Once that 5% mad money is lost one can only use 5% of new contributions.
Good clarification. 5% of new contributions, and not 5% of remaining balance till it goes to 0, lol :p
by kayanco
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:52 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

To calculate this 5%, do you take 5% of your total retirement balance? e.g Take the 401k balance and designate 5% of it? I took 5% of all of my investments (taxable and tax-advantaged) and use that as play money. It really does help with mental accounting, as I don't tinker with the rest of my port...
by kayanco
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:43 pm
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Iphone X is $1000
Replies: 296
Views: 14533

Re: Iphone X is $1000

Personally, I don't find anything valuable in the latest phones. All these new features seem like gimmicks.
These are just toys and time-wasting distractions, enticing us to consume/spend more and more.
by kayanco
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:48 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

... Never invest in something one does not understand ... I want to offer a friendly and respectful follow up. This seems like a useful heuristic and I like it. But when I think about it, it doesn't seem very applicable. First, who will decide whether I understand or not. Is it I, myself? Invoking ...
by kayanco
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:07 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Based on your experience with cryptography, let me ask: When the initial 24 word passphrase (wallet recovery phrase) is generated, is there a way to encrypt it (e.g. using a password from memory) to generate another 24 word phrase? i.e.: 24 words -> encrypt -> 24 words* 24 words* -> decrypt -> 24 w...
by kayanco
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:05 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

For the beanie babies bubble, can you please post the maximum return on a $100? Thanks. Sorry, no idea, not a performance chaser. The Economist's Buttonwood new column is on ICOs. https://www.economist.com/news/business-and-finance/21728791-regulators-signal-alarm-frenzied-investment-craze-ico-stan...
by kayanco
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:01 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.
Replies: 21
Views: 1748

Re: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.

.. And now a joke. A husband comes home and proudly presents a new dog to his family. He claims it must be a excellent dog because it cost $10,000. The wife comments that it looks like a raggie mutt and how could it possible be worth $10,000? "Simply" said the husband. "I traded our two $5,000 cats...
by kayanco
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:59 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.
Replies: 21
Views: 1748

Re: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.

.. This actually is a classic sign of a bubble. The rate of return is not that high. From $100 to $100,000,000 only requires a 300% gain a year. Which is high but in line for a bubble. .. Hi Alex, Can you please refer me to another bubble (or any other investment) with a similar return? (i.e. $100 ...
by kayanco
Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:37 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.
Replies: 21
Views: 1748

Re: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.

$100 at the low of Bitcoin (2010 timeframe I believe) was over $72M as of a few months ago. Now you are probably closer to $150M... Makes you wonder :). This sounds unbelievable. I looked into this a little, and $100 in Bitcoin around 2010 could be worth over 1 million !! I even see some calculatio...
by kayanco
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:15 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Wonder why so many who are now "studying" cryptocurrencies fail to recognize the time-tested investment in beanie babies? http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/02/beanie_babies_bubble_economics_and_psychology_of_a_plush_toy_investment.html https://secure.marketwatch.com/stor...
by kayanco
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:10 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Thanks for posting. So I'm guessing you are holding these 20 coins on an exchange? From what I've read, that might be risky. Yeah, it can be. I thankfully haven't lost anything in the big exchange thefts, etc, but I could have. Now, I try to only hold the small ones on several different exchanges, ...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:23 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Thanks for posting. So I'm guessing you are holding these 20 coins on an exchange? From what I've read, that might be risky. Yeah, it can be. I thankfully haven't lost anything in the big exchange thefts, etc, but I could have. Now, I try to only hold the small ones on several different exchanges, ...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:59 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

To calculate this 5%, do you take 5% of your total retirement balance? e.g Take the 401k balance and designate 5% of it? I took 5% of all of my investments (taxable and tax-advantaged) and use that as play money. It really does help with mental accounting, as I don't tinker with the rest of my port...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:43 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Sorry, the reference was buried a little too deeply. I have revised the footnote: 1. John Bogle recommends setting aside 5% of a retirement portfolio as "play money", which is the most you can afford to lose and not jeopardize your retirement. See: Having a play money account , footnote. Thank you....
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:03 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

LadyGeek wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:08 pm
.. I cited swelfie's post and Jack Bogle to explain exactly how you should allocate bitcoins in your portfolio ..
I couldn't find the Jack Bogle reference, can you please link me to it?

Thanks.
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:02 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

TomCat96 wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:51 pm
... In the case of diversified stocks and bonds it just so happens we actually have decades of evidence ...
Another useful post. TomCat96, I like your overall points. Can you clarify, decades of evidence of what?
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:32 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

How do you feel about these books (in terms of usefulness to a commoner), if you are familiar with them: ... I have done some extensive reading but it does not look like our reading lists overlap so no comment there. As a general observation it looks like all of these books deal with specific marke...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:32 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Looks like there's a whole book which collects all his writings, The Book of Satoshi If they collect "all" his writings, I would imagine the vast majority of those are dev project emails. I can barely stand to read my own inbox of code reviews and arguments over what to name a variable. Ugh. :beer ...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:40 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

.. Are you familiar with the concepts "Purchasing Power Parity" and "No Arbitrage Pricing". These concepts should help. My new favorite book is David Chambers and Elroy Dimson "Financial Market History: Reflections on the Past for Investors Today". They cover historical currency speculation. .. How...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:09 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Looks like there's a whole book which collects all his writings, The Book of Satoshi If they collect "all" his writings, I would imagine the vast majority of those are dev project emails. I can barely stand to read my own inbox of code reviews and arguments over what to name a variable. Ugh. :beer ...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:39 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Well explained. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. So from all this, can I also draw the conclusion that Bitcoin isn't really absolutely capped at 21 million. I know it's currently coded to mimic a finite resource like Gold, but it seems like there's some alchemy possible, unlike Gold. Did you learn...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:52 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Thanks, what do you think about usnig online wallets like Bittrex.com? Shouldnt they be secure enough to be ok with? I guess the main risk is someone breaches THEM and transfers out all the coins? This is exactly the concern and has actually happened many times. This is what brought down My. Gox ex...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:48 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Also, I'm confused over the decentralized aspect. I've come across some seemingly well-rehearsed pitches that there's no central authority, but after reading the post by Swelfie and subsequent cursory search, it seems like even with Bitcoin there are central players with concentrated power (e.g. th...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:13 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Very useful and well rounded reply. Thanks for doing so. I found your whole post to be very informative, and for completeness sake, due to your direct experience would like to ask a few follow ups: 1. What exchange do you use? In my research I only found GDAX and Gemini that accept ACH. 2. What wal...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:54 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

More broadly, in a portfolio context, I think BitCoin should be viewed as either cash or gold. "Coin" is not gold. I can't make gold with a video card and there are no coins. Good point. When I play the devil's advocate on Bitcoin, many things come up that make me hesitant. One of those things is N...
by kayanco
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:33 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Very useful and well rounded reply. Thanks for doing so. I found your whole post to be very informative, and for completeness sake, due to your direct experience would like to ask a few follow ups: 1. What exchange do you use? In my research I only found GDAX and Gemini that accept ACH. 2. What wal...
by kayanco
Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:19 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

.. And then there is "which one?". I see the major players as Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Monero because they all bring unique factors into the space. But again, the tech is immature. Perhaps some unique factor like Byteball offers suddenly dominates all other propositions? It could wipe out the value o...
by kayanco
Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:58 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.
Replies: 21
Views: 1748

Re: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.

.. If you adjusted for inflation, I don't think Florida land prices have done that well. And of course you had to pay property taxes on that land, plus capital gains taxes when you realized. Shiller's data shows what a disappointing investment residential housing has been in the last 150 years (Nei...
by kayanco
Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:43 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.
Replies: 21
Views: 1748

Re: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.

How do you define "the beginning" of a bubble? Are you allowing for leverage, options trading, or short selling? If not, why not? What about multiple trades? Many bubbles get "frothy" before they burst, where an omniscient trader could make more through selling and buying back than just selling onc...
by kayanco
Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:29 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.
Replies: 21
Views: 1748

Re: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.

.. Are you asking someone to generate a list of every bubble and how much $100 would have been worth at the peak for that bubble?.. No, I wouldn't put that burden on you :) If instead you're asking "what is the best investment of all time, assuming you could have market timed it perfectly and sold ...
by kayanco
Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:17 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

OP. would you drop international stock in favor of bitcoin to keep the portfolio "3-fund"? Hmm ... perhaps ... if you like. Or consider it a 4th component, or maybe imagine it inside the international or US fund ... To share with you my (possibly flawed) reasoning, I'm imagining it as a 'company' w...
by kayanco
Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:05 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.
Replies: 21
Views: 1748

Question on bubbles, stocks, etc.

For folks well-versed in the history of bubbles such as the tulip mania, south sea, dot com, and any others, I'd like to ask: What was the maximum return anyone could have gotten in any bubble for a 100 dollars? i.e. If someone put in $100 at the beginning (or lowest point), how much would it be at ...
by kayanco
Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:36 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

LadyGeek wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:43 pm
Please see my thread here: Wiki article - Bitcoin
Good initiative. I'm sure it'll be helpful and informative.
by kayanco
Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:03 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Btw, have these folks made any statements on Bitcoin/crypto-currency:

Allan Roth
Rick Ferri
Larry Swedroe
Eugene Fama
William Bernstein
Burton Malkiel
by kayanco
Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:14 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

Thanks you for the book suggestion. Would you be able to recommend an audbile equivalent book I can listen to? Amazon has a good price on the kindle version - https://www.amazon.com/Financial-Market-History-Reflections-Investors-ebook/dp/B06WVBHK72/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1504915893...
by kayanco
Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:13 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

No, there's no place for bitcoin. Bitcoin is a currency. The average forward-looking expected return on a currency is zero. The average forward-looking expected real return on a currency is zero minus inflation. Take a moment to feel good for lottery winners, and then move on. The argument for Bitc...
by kayanco
Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:09 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

.. No, it's because that is the currency you do your spending in .. You don't care how many dollars it takes to buy a british pound unless you will be buying british pounds in the future .. Wanted to clarify this quote part. I don't understand this reason. I was thinking in terms of stocks, I buy s...
by kayanco
Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:45 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

alex_686 wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:39 pm
..
My new favorite book is David Chambers and Elroy Dimson "Financial Market History: Reflections on the Past for Investors Today". They cover historical currency speculation ..
Thanks you for the book suggestion. Would you be able to recommend an audbile equivalent book I can listen to?
by kayanco
Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:23 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

.. You probably aren't considering 'investing' in Canadian Dollars or British Pounds or Euros or whatever. .. I wanted to come back to this. Yes, you are right, I don't consider investing in other currencies. But why don't I? Or why don't most people? When I thought about your statement, I realized...
by kayanco
Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:46 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?
Replies: 165
Views: 9578

Re: Bitcoin in 3-fund indexed portfolio?

No, there's no place for bitcoin. Bitcoin is a currency. The average forward-looking expected return on a currency is zero. The average forward-looking expected real return on a currency is zero minus inflation. Take a moment to feel good for lottery winners, and then move on. The argument for Bitc...