Search found 463 matches

by johnanglemen
Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:14 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Accidentally made direct Roth IRA contribution
Replies: 10
Views: 1255

Re: Accidentally made direct Roth IRA contribution

Is my assessment correct? If so, it appears to come down to whether it's worth the hassle of opening an IRA at another firm to save $41 in taxes? Thank you! Your assessment matches mine in all particulars. I don't understand why the IRS allows the earnings to remain in the IRA when you withdraw the...
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:59 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Accidentally made direct Roth IRA contribution
Replies: 10
Views: 1255

Re: Accidentally made direct Roth IRA contribution

Is it appreciation across all Roth IRAs in this timeframe, or only the account I contributed to? I would've assumed all, but Fairmark (http://fairmark.com/retirement/roth-accounts/recharacterizations/recharacterization-blues/) seems to suggest that it's only the particular account? Just the account...
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:12 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Vanguard Tax Forms Now Online
Replies: 39
Views: 2811

Re: Vanguard Tax Forms Now Online

rkhusky wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:09 pm
Just got my 1099. Qualified dividends for Total Stock, Mid Cap and Small Cap are 94.78%, 87.18%, 65.72%, respectively. This compares to Vanguard's estimates of 94%, 89%, 71%, respectively.
Wow. If they had gotten qualified dividends to 95%, they could've reported them as 100%. Big loss.
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:10 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Accidentally made direct Roth IRA contribution
Replies: 10
Views: 1255

Re: Accidentally made direct Roth IRA contribution

What does it mean that the earnings are calculated using the Roth IRA? Say my Roth IRA is up 50% overall. Does that mean that $5500 comes out and gets put in the nondeductible traditional IRA as basis, and $2750 comes out and put in there as earnings? That seems crazy / inequitable. What Kaneohe sa...
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:50 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Vanguard Tax Forms Now Online
Replies: 39
Views: 2811

Re: Vanguard Tax Forms Now Online

Can those of you who have tax forms tell us the final qualified dividend percentage for Vanguard Total Stock and Vanguard Total International?
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:48 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Accidentally made direct Roth IRA contribution
Replies: 10
Views: 1255

Re: Accidentally made direct Roth IRA contribution

There are three ways to fix this excess Roth IRA contribution. Given your facts the best way appears to be recharacterize the Roth contribution to be a non-deductible traditional IRA contribution. You ask Vanguard to do this and they will move the contributions plus earnings from the Roth to the tI...
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:17 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Accidentally made direct Roth IRA contribution
Replies: 10
Views: 1255

Accidentally made direct Roth IRA contribution

In September 2017, I inadvertently made a contribution directly to my Roth IRA. My income is too high to do this. I meant to make a nondeductible contribution to my Traditional IRA and then convert it immediately to Roth IRA. The IRA is held at Vanguard. I invested the contribution in Vanguard Emerg...
by johnanglemen
Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:43 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?
Replies: 19
Views: 1303

Re: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?

The example seems to demonstrate that there are in fact cases when it would be better to take $50,000 in the Roth rather than receive $100,000 in taxable. Maybe that's totally obvious, but it was unintuitive to me -- you'd be turning down an extra $50,000! -- so I was just vetting it against the wi...
by johnanglemen
Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:08 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?
Replies: 19
Views: 1303

Re: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?

I'm also confused by the queation: assuming you don't need the money before 59.5, and assuming you have the same investments available on each account, Roth will always beat taxable, simply because it's not taxable. Of course, if you limit your options to the S&P500 in taxable account or something ...
by johnanglemen
Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:47 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?
Replies: 19
Views: 1303

Re: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?

You can't just put the 50,000k into Roth at one time? And why would you have different amounts in different account types? Can you clarify your first question? On the second, there are cases where you have a choice to incur certain deductible expenses that would increase your aftertax income but de...
by johnanglemen
Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:38 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?
Replies: 19
Views: 1303

Re: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?

It depends on how tax efficient the taxable investment is. It is possible that over a long enough time horizon if you used REITs as the asset class the Roth would win. In fact this is always the case when there is any tax inefficiency; the unknown is only the length of time it takes for the Roth to...
by johnanglemen
Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:28 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?
Replies: 19
Views: 1303

Re: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?

It depends on how tax efficient the taxable investment is. It is possible that over a long enough time horizon if you used REITs as the asset class the Roth would win. In fact this is always the case when there is any tax inefficiency; the unknown is only the length of time it takes for the Roth to...
by johnanglemen
Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:43 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?
Replies: 19
Views: 1303

Re: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?

Goal33 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:42 pm
I’d want the 100k in taxable so when I lose all my money in a once in a lifetime opportunity I can deduct the losses.
Funny. Let's assume it's actually the next Google for this exercise...
by johnanglemen
Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:29 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?
Replies: 19
Views: 1303

A lot in taxable, or a little in Roth: a no-brainer?

Here's a practical question I'm trying to answer to make an investment decision. Say you have the choice between receiving $100,000 in a taxable account or $50,000 in a Roth when you're 21. You expect your marginal tax rate on capital gains to be well under 50% in retirement. You have access to the ...
by johnanglemen
Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Establish a home office or contribute to Roth accounts?
Replies: 1
Views: 209

Re: Establish a home office or contribute to Roth accounts?

Corrected the numbers slightly, but proposed conclusion is the same. Any thoughts on this?
by johnanglemen
Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:40 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Establish a home office or contribute to Roth accounts?
Replies: 1
Views: 209

Establish a home office or contribute to Roth accounts?

I'm self-employed. I'm trying to determine whether it makes sense to establish a separate home office for my business that would qualify for the home office deduction, i.e. formalize some space in my existing apartment. On the surface, this seems like a no-brainer. However, this would wipe out my ne...
by johnanglemen
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:35 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?
Replies: 18
Views: 923

Re: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?

It says: "Do not include rollovers in figuring your excess contributions." OK. How does that address the issue that the penalty comes to $0 on line 17? The penalty is 6% of the excess, which has been properly calculated, OR the account value on December 31st. The account value on December 31st is $0.
by johnanglemen
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:33 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?
Replies: 18
Views: 923

Re: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?

HueyLD wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:32 pm
Did you read the instructions for line 15 of form 5329?
Yes. I see no bearing on what I'm saying. Line 15 comes to the excess contribution. The issue is the penalty calculation.
by johnanglemen
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:26 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?
Replies: 18
Views: 923

Re: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?

..it calculates the penalty as 6% of the smaller of the excess contribution or of the Traditional IRA account value on the last day of the year. My traditional account value on the last day of the year was $0 because it had been converted to Roth, hence no penalty. This can't be right, so what's go...
by johnanglemen
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:13 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?
Replies: 18
Views: 923

Re: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?

So, it is a bug in TurboTax and in you. :0 It is not a bug in TurboTax. TurboTax alerted the user to the problem. It is up to the user to fix the Excess Contribution. No-one can do that but the user. :D TurboTax (and the tax forms themselves) say the taxpayer did something wrong and the penalty for...
by johnanglemen
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:36 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?
Replies: 18
Views: 923

Re: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?

Just seems like a bizarre loophole. I've correctly reported everything I did, and the forms acknowledge the excess contribution, but still spit out a $0 penalty. And Vanguard happily reports a normal Roth conversion. It is not a loophole. You still have not Removed the Excess Contribution. You have...
by johnanglemen
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:01 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?
Replies: 18
Views: 923

Re: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?

Just seems like a bizarre loophole. I've correctly reported everything I did, and the forms acknowledge the excess contribution, but still spit out a $0 penalty. And Vanguard happily reports a normal Roth conversion.
by johnanglemen
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:46 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?
Replies: 18
Views: 923

Re: Is this a bug in TurboTax (re: excess IRA contributions)?

ThrustVectoring wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:44 pm
It sounds like TurboTax is incorrectly treating a Roth conversion as a withdrawal of the over-contribution.
But how do the tax forms itself account for this situation? I'm not seeing it in form 5329 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5329.pdf).
by johnanglemen
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:26 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?
Replies: 18
Views: 923

Is this a bug in the law, in TurboTax, or in me? (re: excess IRA contributions)?

I made an excess IRA contribution to my traditional IRA and then converted it to a Roth. (It was excess because it exceeded my earned income.) TurboTax caught this correctly, but it calculated my penalty as $0. On form 5329, in line 17, it calculates the penalty as 6% of the smaller of the excess co...
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:28 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Can I contribute to both a Roth IRA and a solo 401k with the "same" income?
Replies: 21
Views: 977

Re: Can I contribute to both a Roth IRA and a solo 401k with the "same" income?

johnanglemen, Only certain kind of income aka compensation aka earned income count in this case. Business income does not count. Ditto on pension, social security income, and unemployment compensation. KlangFool This is earned income. It's self-employment compensation. That goes on 1040 line 12 (sc...
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:16 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Can I contribute to both a Roth IRA and a solo 401k with the "same" income?
Replies: 21
Views: 977

Re: Can I contribute to both a Roth IRA and a solo 401k with the "same" income?

Hmm lots of conflicting answers here. To the people saying that there is no compensation if you defer to a trad 401k -- It looks to me like the self-employment income does go onto form 1040 line 12 (business income or loss, schedule C) as income. Then 92.35% of it is removed from AGI in line 28 (se...
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:44 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Can I contribute to both a Roth IRA and a solo 401k with the "same" income?
Replies: 21
Views: 977

Re: Can I contribute to both a Roth IRA and a solo 401k with the "same" income?

Hmm lots of conflicting answers here. To the people saying that there is no compensation if you defer to a trad 401k -- It looks to me like the self-employment income does go onto form 1040 line 12 (business income or loss, schedule C) as income. Then 92.35% of it is removed from AGI in line 28 (se...
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:23 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Can I contribute to both a Roth IRA and a solo 401k with the "same" income?
Replies: 21
Views: 977

Re: Can I contribute to both a Roth IRA and a solo 401k with the "same" income?

Hmm lots of conflicting answers here. To the people saying that there is no compensation if you defer to a trad 401k -- It looks to me like the self-employment income does go onto form 1040 line 12 (business income or loss, schedule C) as income. Then 92.35% of it is removed from AGI in line 28 (sel...
by johnanglemen
Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:45 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Can I contribute to both a Roth IRA and a solo 401k with the "same" income?
Replies: 21
Views: 977

Can I contribute to both a Roth IRA and a solo 401k with the "same" income?

Let's say I earn $5000 in a given year for self-employment work. Can I contribute $5000 to both a Roth IRA and a solo 401k? Seems hard to believe, but I'm not finding what disallows that. Thank you.
by johnanglemen
Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:48 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Roth solo 401k contribution limit
Replies: 3
Views: 292

Re: Roth solo 401k contribution limit

Duckie wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:27 pm
johnanglemen wrote:Is the Roth solo 401k contribution limit the same as the traditional -- i.e. net self-employment income less half of SE tax?
Yes. The employEE contribution limit for a solo 401k is $18K ($18.5K for 2018) whether it goes in pre-tax or Roth.
I am referring to the income-based limit, though.
by johnanglemen
Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:38 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Roth solo 401k contribution limit
Replies: 3
Views: 292

Roth solo 401k contribution limit

Is the Roth solo 401k contribution limit the same as the traditional -- i.e. net self-employment income less half of SE tax? Just want to make sure I can trust all these online calculators, which seem to have been made with traditional in mine. Thank you.
by johnanglemen
Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:24 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Pay down mortgage or invest in munis?
Replies: 13
Views: 1490

Pay down mortgage or invest in munis?

I'm trying to figure out whether it makes sense to sell off Vanguard Intermediate-Term Tax-Exempt Fund Admiral Shares (VWIUX) and use the proceeds to pay down a mortgage. There's approximately 27 years left on the mortgage. It's a 10-year ARM with a rate of 2.875%. The next rate change is in May 202...
by johnanglemen
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:07 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Is my IRA contribution for this earned income legitimate?
Replies: 5
Views: 500

Is my IRA contribution for this earned income legitimate?

I earned $6000 in self-employment income this year: $3000 in September and $3000 in October. The money was earned as an independent contractor for a large firm. The payroll department of the firm is not terribly competent and says the money won't actually be paid out until January 2018, but everyone...
by johnanglemen
Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:15 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Merrill Edge account no longer eligible for wire transfer redemptions from Vanguard?
Replies: 0
Views: 248

Merrill Edge account no longer eligible for wire transfer redemptions from Vanguard?

I have my Merrill Edge account linked to my Vanguard. For the last few years, every time I sell Vanguard, I've chosen to wire the proceeds to the ML Edge account without issue. But suddenly this month, the wire option is no longer eligible for the account. (The radio button is disabled in the sell f...
by johnanglemen
Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:10 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Does this constitute a wash sale?
Replies: 8
Views: 864

Does this constitute a wash sale?

Let's say I own Vanguard Total Stock Market (VTSAX) in two different taxable accounts. On March 15th, a dividend is paid to each account and automatically reinvested. The following week, I sell the full dividend reinvestment lot in account #1 at a loss, but don't touch the dividend reinvestment lot ...
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:07 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Non Sufficient Funds for a Buy at Vanguard
Replies: 13
Views: 4780

Re: Non Sufficient Funds for a Buy at Vanguard

I'm confused by this thread. If it's really true that Vanguard, as a matter of policy, simply does away with any order that fails to clear due to insufficient funds in your bank account, isn't that ripe for abuse? Step 1: Submit order for $1M of VTSMX, funds to come from linked bank account via ACH....
by johnanglemen
Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:46 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Another year where Vanguard Total Stock dividends aren't 100% qualified?
Replies: 19
Views: 4077

Re: Another year where Vanguard Total Stock dividends aren't 100% qualified?

The only estimate that counts is the one that comes with the 1099. livesoft pointed out that the estimates during 2015 suggested less than 100% qualified dividends last year, but in fact all the dividends were qualified when the tax info came out. What reason do you have to believe the outcome will...
by johnanglemen
Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:44 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Vanguard 1099s available - Other companies just as good for sending 1099s???
Replies: 67
Views: 7937

Re: Vanguard 1099s available - Other companies just as good for sending 1099s???

Could someone who received a 1099 for Total Stock dividends let us know what % of the dividend was qualified for 2016?
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:59 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Taking rental property "out of service" to sell it
Replies: 2
Views: 533

Re: Taking rental property "out of service" to sell it

I did not use it for personal use. However, there's also this from 527 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p527.pdf): "Vacant while listed for sale. If you sell property you held for rental purposes, you can deduct the ordinary and necessary expenses for managing, conserving, or maintaining the propert...
by johnanglemen
Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:17 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Taking rental property "out of service" to sell it
Replies: 2
Views: 533

Taking rental property "out of service" to sell it

Let's say I converted a personal residence to rental property on January 1st, 2015. On August 1, 2016, I decide to take the property "out of service" (i.e. stop renting it) in order to sell it. On December 31, 2016, I sell the property at a loss (relative to my "rental basis", i.e. the lower of FMV ...
by johnanglemen
Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:26 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: "How CRSP index change affects Vanguard funds" (Jan 2017)
Replies: 2
Views: 841

"How CRSP index change affects Vanguard funds" (Jan 2017)

"The Center for Research in Security Prices (CRSP), whose U.S. equity indexes are used as benchmarks for several Vanguard portfolios, is changing its index reconstitution process. Starting in September 2017, the quarterly adjustments needed to reflect current market valuations will be made over a fi...
by johnanglemen
Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:02 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Holding Admiral Shares with ML Edge
Replies: 48
Views: 5666

Re: Holding Admiral Shares with ML Edge

I believe Merrill Edge assigns a rep to your account as it's opened based on my (short) experience. A few days after opening my account I received a call from a Merrill Edge rep who wanted to make sure I'd been able to log in online, walked through the process inputting an ACAT transfer, and was ea...
by johnanglemen
Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:19 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Holding Admiral Shares with ML Edge
Replies: 48
Views: 5666

Re: Holding Admiral Shares with ML Edge

I transferred all my accounts from Vanguard to Merrill Edge and couldn't be happier. I still get to hold all my vanguard index funds and get a whole ton of other benefits on top of it. My rep has been great too. Doesn't try to sell me anything and is very responsive. I can even text him when I need...
by johnanglemen
Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:45 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?
Replies: 71
Views: 5192

Re: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?

The primary issue is that you need a valid business to generate earned income. Paying yourself to manage your own portfolio, if it were legal, would mean that anybody could turn their investment income into earned income. Why is managing an estate different from vacuuming your own home? Then again,...
by johnanglemen
Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:28 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?
Replies: 71
Views: 5192

Re: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?

To make the logic more clear: Today I mowed the lawn. If I hired someone to mow the lawn, I'd have to pay them, so why can't I pay myself? Tomorrow I am vacuuming. Am I allowed to pay myself for that? Why should estate planning be any different? This is the simplest and most definitive answer to th...
by johnanglemen
Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:04 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?
Replies: 71
Views: 5192

Re: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?

To make the logic more clear: Today I mowed the lawn. If I hired someone to mow the lawn, I'd have to pay them, so why can't I pay myself? Tomorrow I am vacuuming. Am I allowed to pay myself for that? Why should estate planning be any different? This is the simplest and most definitive answer to th...
by johnanglemen
Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:03 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?
Replies: 71
Views: 5192

Re: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?

Sounds like you've run the numbers incorrectly and/or ignored a lot of details. Let's see... Even if you could reinvest your entire sham salary in tax deferred accounts, how much do think you'd save by paying 15% extra FICA taxes to earn maybe 7% to 9% on the amount you'd be "investing" ? 10%, with...
by johnanglemen
Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:49 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?
Replies: 71
Views: 5192

Re: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?

TimeRunner wrote:At the top of the thread, OP says he's 70 years old. Trolling thread.
Never said I'm 70 anywhere.
by johnanglemen
Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:49 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?
Replies: 71
Views: 5192

Re: Paying myself a salary for investment and tax management?

At the high risk of derailing this thread, I'll throw out an extremely quick set of example figures just to show that A can overtake B on the time horizon we're talking about: $100, compounding at 9.5%[1], over 80 years, then reduced by 20%[2] = $113,820.25 $60, compounding at 10%, over 80 years = ...