Search found 1873 matches

by Sammy_M
Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:43 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Recommendations for Fidelity Bond Funds in Taxable Account
Replies: 25
Views: 1695

Re: Recommendations for Fidelity Bond Funds in Taxable Account

I want bond funds in these taxable accounts to lower volatility. I'd recommend 50/50 short-term nominal/intermediate-term TIPS Fidelity® Short-Term Bond Index Fund Investor Class (FNSJX) Premium Class (FNSKX, .06) Fidelity® Inflation-Protected Bond Index Fund Investor Class (FSIQX) Premium Class (F...
by Sammy_M
Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:11 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Vanguard LifeStrategy Funds vs. Target Date Funds
Replies: 63
Views: 5518

Re: Vanguard LifeStrategy Funds vs. Target Date Funds

Further, most of these target date funds eventually move to a very conservative AA of something like 30/70, which is outside the recommended range suggested by the safe withdrawal rate research. It must not be outside the recommended range according to the research at Vanguard, Fidelity, and the ot...
by Sammy_M
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:58 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: QSPIX - thoughts on interesting fund
Replies: 1250
Views: 186539

Re: QSPIX - thoughts on interesting fund

There is an article in WSJ today, Is This Obscure Wall Street Invention Responsible for the Market Selloff?, that mentions AQR and its use of risk-parity strategies. So-called risk-parity funds aim to reduce the danger from a collapse in any one market by limiting bets on more volatile assets like s...
by Sammy_M
Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:55 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Individual 529 vs Custodial (UTMA/UGMA) 529
Replies: 27
Views: 1262

Re: Individual 529 vs Custodial (UTMA/UGMA) 529

For both FAFSA and Profile, converting a 529 account where child A is the beneficiary from a parent-owned account to a student-owned account could have a positive impact on child B's financial aid, because after conversion the account will no longer need to be reported on child B's FAFSA or Profile...
by Sammy_M
Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:42 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Individual 529 vs Custodial (UTMA/UGMA) 529
Replies: 27
Views: 1262

Re: Individual 529 vs Custodial (UTMA/UGMA) 529

I am actually surprised that more people have not talked about this issue. It always seemed wrong to me that I saved for my 3 kids in college and the money earmarked for one sibling affects the other siblings. I believe I found here a way for that not to be the case. The affect could be in the thou...
by Sammy_M
Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:30 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Individual 529 vs Custodial (UTMA/UGMA) 529
Replies: 27
Views: 1262

Re: Individual 529 vs Custodial (UTMA/UGMA) 529

As pointed out above, how child 2's student-owned 529 account is treated by a CSS Profile school depends on that schools' specific policies. If having the money in such an account treated as a student asset instead of a parent asset will be a major issue, it would be a smart move to determine schoo...
by Sammy_M
Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:51 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Which tax software for 2017?
Replies: 20
Views: 1301

Re: Which tax software for 2017?

I prefer downloadable software. TaxAct finally drove me away this year with their pricing hikes and I went with H&R Block Deluxe.
by Sammy_M
Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:11 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Fidelity Freedom 2020 vs Vanguard Index Funds?
Replies: 16
Views: 1219

Re: Fidelity Freedom 2020 vs Vanguard Index Funds?

Can anyone please comment on the Fidelity target ["freedom"] index funds vs. the Vanguard equivalents? Do they both have pluses and minuses such that it pays to own both? A glance seems to show that Fidelity has more international stocks and bonds. Thank you. Seems some are confusing freedom with f...
by Sammy_M
Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:52 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Should I stop 529 Contributions
Replies: 14
Views: 1658

Re: Should I stop 529 Contributions

Before funding dollar one for a 529, I would first: Max 401k (or whatever plan you have) Max Roth Buy $10k each in US Savings bonds pay off mortgage These give you more flexibility in how the money is spent while considering possible FAFSA impacts. We have one in college ($65k per year) and one in ...
by Sammy_M
Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:48 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: S-Corp Solo 401k employER contribution is 25% of what?
Replies: 15
Views: 561

Re: S-Corp Solo 401k employER contribution is 25% of what?

If the company is a single member LLC (sole proprietorship for tax purposes) and only has an owner and no employees, do you use 25% of the net profit line 31 from Schedule C? p.s. I never heard of a single-member S-Corp, unless that is short for a single member LLC that elects to be treated as an S-...
by Sammy_M
Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:53 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: VFSUX (Vanguard Investment-Grade ST Bond) EFT equivalent?
Replies: 4
Views: 383

Re: VFSUX (Vanguard Investment-Grade ST Bond) EFT equivalent?

You could use Fidelity® Short-Term Bond Index Fund Premium Class (FNSKX) or iShares Core Short-Term U.S. Bond (ISTB), both without commission. Expect a little lower yield than IG ST, since those two have less corporate bonds. If you truly want corporate, you could go with CSJ.
by Sammy_M
Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:37 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: 25% marginal rate, still contribute to tax-deferred?
Replies: 1
Views: 676

25% marginal rate, still contribute to tax-deferred?

My marginal Fed tax rate is 33% now. This is mostly W2 income. I max out a tradl 401K and also do a backdoor roth ira. I plan to continue to do both in 2018. I also have some self-employed income (Sched C) from a side business that is not a service business. It appears I will qualify for the new 25%...
by Sammy_M
Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:52 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Samsung Pay, does it work all the time?
Replies: 11
Views: 665

Re: Samsung Pay, does it work all the time?

I don't understand why you would need to bring a wallet if you only need a card. Bring the card alone. That's what I do nowadays. Presumably, you also need an ID sometimes like a driver license, so bring that, too. No because then the cards get lost or I forget to put them back in my wallet and the...
by Sammy_M
Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:03 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: High-yield savings account to be held in revocable trust
Replies: 7
Views: 585

Re: High-yield savings account to be held in revocable trust

Why not just set the account POD/beneficiary as the revocable trust? Doesn't that avoid probate as well?
by Sammy_M
Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:49 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: the psychology of a taxable account
Replies: 29
Views: 3199

Re: the psychology of a taxable account

I am strongly considering accelerating the pay down some low interest mortgage debt instead (3.125% 30 year fixed). If you will take the standard deduction in 2018, paying down a 3.15% mortgage is sensible. That beats the yield on safe bond funds. You may need to adjust your tax advantaged contribu...
by Sammy_M
Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:16 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Treasury Inflation Protected Securities [TIPS] Questions
Replies: 12
Views: 908

Re: Treasury Inflation Protected Securities [TIPS] Questions

I have posted about this a few times so please bear with me again. I am age 70 and a 30/70 stock/bond portfolio going forward would make sense. I have finally decided to set up a TIPs bond ladder within my traditional IRA. Many articles suggest that an investor should have some percent (e.g. 25 or ...
by Sammy_M
Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:43 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 30 yr tips yield: 1% to 0.83% over last 2 weeks!
Replies: 66
Views: 8495

Re: 30 yr tips yield: 1% to 0.83% over last 2 weeks!

With CDs don't forget about state taxes. What is the source for the 2.25% 10 year inflation estimAte? The Philly survey? Good point. In my case, they'd be held in tax-advantaged. Yes, the Philly survey. https://www.philadelphiafed.org/research-and-data/real-time-center/survey-of-professional-foreca...
by Sammy_M
Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:36 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 30 yr tips yield: 1% to 0.83% over last 2 weeks!
Replies: 66
Views: 8495

Re: 30 yr tips yield: 1% to 0.83% over last 2 weeks!

I cannot commit to 30 years at current yield levels, but maybe I'll regret that if we experience ILG-like negative real yields in the future. To me, TIPS look attractive vs. nominal Treasuries, but not to CDs. On the secondary market, CD NOMINAL less TIPS REAL rate... 1/15/2023 - 2.36 1/15/2024 - 2....
by Sammy_M
Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:28 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 30 yr tips yield: 1% to 0.83% over last 2 weeks!
Replies: 66
Views: 8495

Re: 30 yr tips yield: 1% to 0.83% over last 2 weeks!

Without looking, our TIPS position is maybe 10 to 15% of our Treasuries and the longest is 8 years. Unlike Grok we have little need for an inflation protected LMP. I'm currently buying sevens and hence am restricted to the secondary market and I want to avoid ABP hassles on top of the OID so this l...
by Sammy_M
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:44 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: I-bond inflation irony?
Replies: 35
Views: 3998

Re: I-bond inflation irony?

dodecahedron wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:41 pm
so an individual who has set up a revocable trust with its own EIN can buy $20K per year, $10K under his SSN and $10K under the EIN of his trust.)
Doesn't have to be a separate EIN for the trust. See discussion here viewtopic.php?t=77395
by Sammy_M
Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:39 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Moving back to active: Will Vanguard beat American Funds by 0.24%?
Replies: 6
Views: 1269

Re: Moving back to active: Will Vanguard beat American Funds by 0.24%?

financeidiot wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:03 pm
Unfortunate that there's a penalty for passive investing. Seems like the 401k provider is acting in their own best interest rather than the interests of plan participants.
Their view is that I've been free-riding up to this point. Time to pay my fair share. :wink:
by Sammy_M
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:41 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Moving back to active: Will Vanguard beat American Funds by 0.24%?
Replies: 6
Views: 1269

Re: Moving back to active: Will Vanguard beat American Funds by 0.24%?

I may be misinterpreting what you wrote, but isn't the total administrative expense equal for both funds? If you're charged 0.29% administrative fees and credited for 12b-1 fees and other service fees, then wouldn't these be the total costs? Vanguard = Expense ratio + 0.29% administrative service f...
by Sammy_M
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:25 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Moving back to active: Will Vanguard beat American Funds by 0.24%?
Replies: 6
Views: 1269

Moving back to active: Will Vanguard beat American Funds by 0.24%?

I was successful in arguing for Vanguard funds to be added to our plan several years ago. Our plan currently offers both active and passive funds. However, the plan is now instituting a change where they will charge participants a 0.29% administrative fee, and then credit us the "rate of service fee...
by Sammy_M
Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:07 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: What's likely to happen to stocks if/when interest rates rise?
Replies: 22
Views: 1596

Re: What's likely to happen to stocks if/when interest rates rise?

Growth stocks don't look as good. See W. Berstein's "Of Mines, Forests, and Impatience". http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/401/fisher.htm Thanks! :happy It looks very interesting and intelligently written. I came across this sentence though: 'However, money rates of interest are never negative.' ...
by Sammy_M
Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:49 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: What's likely to happen to stocks if/when interest rates rise?
Replies: 22
Views: 1596

Re: What's likely to happen to stocks if/when interest rates rise?

Growth stocks don't look as good. See W. Berstein's "Of Mines, Forests, and Impatience".
http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/401/fisher.htm
by Sammy_M
Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:48 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Ben Carlson on Commodities
Replies: 12
Views: 1301

Re: Ben Carlson on Commodities

I suspect the lack of interest in commodity/CCF funds and precious metals/PME is driven by the economic climate we have today with little inflation and recent strong returns from equities. The tide will turn one day.
by Sammy_M
Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:26 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Your Favorite Portfolio Tilts
Replies: 86
Views: 8441

Re: Your Favorite Portfolio Tilts

. Using an indicative ‘market portfolio’ of: 30% US stocks 25% non-US stocks 23% US bonds 22% Non-US bonds (re: pg 22 of Bill Sharpe’s online book http://web.stanford.edu/~wfsharpe/RISMAT/RISMAT-7.pdf) My preferred long-term tilts are: Equities (75% relative to 55% in ‘market portfolio’) Value (tar...
by Sammy_M
Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:17 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Larry Swedroe: Stocks, Bonds, & Risk
Replies: 61
Views: 6808

Re: Larry Swedroe: Stocks, Bonds, & Risk

Great article, consistent with Larry's teachings on this forum. I don't think Bodie is against equity investing. He merely suggests that an investor build a TIPS/I-Bonds foundation sufficient to "get by" for the duration of one's life expectancy before investing in risky assets. Practically, I think...
by Sammy_M
Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:07 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Present US equity risk premium
Replies: 4
Views: 864

Present US equity risk premium

Is this approach reasonable for calculating the expected US equity risk premium? Schiller P/E10 is about 30 . Earnings yield is the inverse, or E10/P, so 3.3%. But we then need to multiply by 1.075 to adjust for lag , so adjusted to 3.6%. Longest TIPS is 30 years, and is presently yielding about 1% ...
by Sammy_M
Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:27 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Move taxable to 529 for FAFSA benefits?
Replies: 14
Views: 1012

Re: Move taxable to 529 for FAFSA benefits?

This is only true if the parent owns the account and the student is the beneficiary. http://www.savingforcollege.com/intro_to_529s/does-a-529-plan-affect-financial-aid.php Are assets counted on the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA)? Yes, but assets in accounts owned by a dependent st...
by Sammy_M
Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:21 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Move taxable to 529 for FAFSA benefits?
Replies: 14
Views: 1012

Re: Move taxable to 529 for FAFSA benefits?

Funds in 529 and taxable accounts are treated equally for FAFSA purposes. I'm not sure that is correct for student owned accounts. For student owned taxable, I think the expected contribution is 20%. For student owned 529s, I think it is treated as if owned by the parent, and thus has a lower expec...
by Sammy_M
Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:51 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Vanguard High-Yield Corporate Fund Investor Shares VWEHX
Replies: 47
Views: 5409

Re: Vanguard High-Yield Corporate Fund Investor Shares VWEHX

Also, now is not the best time to get into High Yield bonds. Spreads are very low - meaning that the yield premium you get for taking the extra credit risk is small relative to the yield spreads we've seen historically. Note that I don't recommend market timing as a strategy, so I just mention the ...
by Sammy_M
Sat May 13, 2017 11:15 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Ultimate Buy and Hold - 8 slices vs 4
Replies: 719
Views: 311325

Re: Ultimate Buy and Hold - 8 slices vs 4

^It's going to be very time dependent. From 5/2009 to present using equal parts VTI, VBR, VTRIX, VSS - you could have raised your VFIUX allocation from 20 to 32% and achieved the same return with less volatility, i.e. greater sharpe ratio. https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&t...
by Sammy_M
Fri May 12, 2017 5:23 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: Retiree Portfolio Review
Replies: 3
Views: 920

Retiree Portfolio Review

May I please have your thoughts on the following investment portfolio for a recently retired couple with about 80% of income needs addressed through inflation adjusted pensions and social security. Little need to take risk, but there is ability and willingness to take reasonable risks to achieve por...
by Sammy_M
Sun May 07, 2017 2:11 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: PowerShares S&P 500 Value with Momentum ETF (SPVM)
Replies: 10
Views: 1118

Re: PowerShares S&P 500 Value with Momentum ETF (SPVM)

Several risks that this fund will not beat the TSM, among them are high turnover, which brings with it transaction costs, value risk, industry concentration risk, non-correlation risk, and momentum investing risk. This fund attempts to down select the market of 500 stock to 200 and then does a mome...
by Sammy_M
Sun May 07, 2017 8:34 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: PowerShares S&P 500 Value with Momentum ETF (SPVM)
Replies: 10
Views: 1118

Re: PowerShares S&P 500 Value with Momentum ETF (SPVM)

No arguments there. IF I were to use this fund, it would be a very small allocation in my IRA, complementing TSM in my 401K, to help achieve my desired value tilt. SPVM will probably be about as concentrated as the Guggenheim Pure Value ETFs. You/Jared are likely right that it will not necessarily h...
by Sammy_M
Sun May 07, 2017 6:15 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: PowerShares S&P 500 Value with Momentum ETF (SPVM)
Replies: 10
Views: 1118

PowerShares S&P 500 Value with Momentum ETF (SPVM)

I am interested in thoughts on the captioned new Value + Momentum fund that has a 0.30% ER. Mine are that while non-diversified, it should have strong Value and Momentum characteristics. It will be interesting to see once it has a longer history. SPVM seeks to track the S&P 500 High Momentum Value I...
by Sammy_M
Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:36 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: What do you expect to achieve with your Tilt?
Replies: 85
Views: 7840

Re: What do you expect to achieve with your Tilt?

The standard deviation also tells us more than just what to expect annually, it provides an indication of what to expect over longer time horizons e.g. 25 years. For example a SD of 14 implies returns of one in every six 25 year periods of 2.8 percent below the mean [14/SQRT(25)] i.e. there is abou...
by Sammy_M
Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:29 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Anyone have a tilt portfolio similar to this
Replies: 22
Views: 2659

Re: Anyone have a tilt portfolio similar to this

Hello, I was just curious if anyone has a portfolio similar to this for their equity portion. 30% total stock market fund 30% Small Cap Value 20% total international fund 20% emerging market This fund is 60/40 as far as US/International. Its also 50% total stock market funds versus 50% in SCV and E...
by Sammy_M
Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:03 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: 100% TIPS and 0% in Nominal Bonds?
Replies: 168
Views: 11498

Re: 100% TIPS and 0% in Nominal Bonds?

If I consider my mortgage a negative nominal bond, I have close to 100% in TIPS.
by Sammy_M
Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:03 am
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: TIPS [good time to invest?]
Replies: 4
Views: 851

Re: TIPS [good time to invest?]

It depends on the comparison point. The 10-year breakeven inflation rate is presently 1.94. 5 year b/e inflation rate is 1.79. If actual inflation turns out to be higher over those time frames, you were better off investing in TIPS than nominal Treasuries. See https://fred.stlouisfed.org/categories/...
by Sammy_M
Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:45 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Arnott and Asness Square Off on Factor Investing
Replies: 17
Views: 2286

Re: Arnott and Asness Square Off on Factor Investing

Yes, the title is not descriptive. They are agreeing more than disagreeing. The markets, by their very nature, are going to look for inefficiencies and squash them. The inefficiencies are likely to be dynamic. They're likely to change over time. There are a few timeless ones--momentum, for sure; val...
by Sammy_M
Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:46 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Arnott and Asness Square Off on Factor Investing
Replies: 17
Views: 2286

Arnott and Asness Square Off on Factor Investing

http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=770825 Interesting comment. You asked about all of the attention focused on factors. One thing I would say to that is attention doesn't change prices. Money changes prices. Where these flows are coming from is fascinating. We've seen flows out o...
by Sammy_M
Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:00 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Fidelity and new Factor-based ETF's
Replies: 6
Views: 962

Re: Fidelity and new Factor-based ETF's

Just hope that this doesn't steer them toward discontinuing their deal with iShares. IUSV at 7bp is hard to beat for value.
by Sammy_M
Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:31 pm
Forum: Investing - Help with Personal Investments
Topic: How do you view debt?
Replies: 108
Views: 8655

Re: How do you view debt?

I don't view debt as evil, it's just a slippery slope that a lot of people use unwisely. My general guidance would be: Don't buy what you don't need. If you use debt, maintain ample liquidity. Pay down/off any debt that is > Prime + 3%. Then fund your retirement accounts. Pay down/off any debt great...
by Sammy_M
Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:27 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Universal life as p/o fixed income allocation
Replies: 4
Views: 535

Re: Universal life as p/o fixed income allocation

afan wrote:Not all of the premium goes into the investment fund. Some may be deducted for commissions, some for premium taxes and other expenses.
Thanks. This is exactly what I was looking to learn.
by Sammy_M
Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:48 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: Universal life as p/o fixed income allocation
Replies: 4
Views: 535

Universal life as p/o fixed income allocation

I help a relative of mine with her finances. She took out a small universal life 'plus' policy from Ameriprise in the early 90s with a $100K death benefit. Cash value is now in the high 4-figures. I haven't paid much attention to this policy, but in reviewing this weekend I saw the fixed account int...
by Sammy_M
Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:28 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Valuations and market timing, and the current CAPE 10
Replies: 88
Views: 10767

Re: Valuations and market timing, and the current CAPE 10

Sammy, should not add 1.5 to the 3.8. The figure should be 3.8% x (1 + [5 x2]) Five year lag and earnings grow about 2% per year in real terms. That brings current earnings yield up to 4.2% and that is the real expected return. It's not the DDM which you add g to the div yield Larry Got it. Thank y...
by Sammy_M
Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:51 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Valuations and market timing, and the current CAPE 10
Replies: 88
Views: 10767

Re: Valuations and market timing, and the current CAPE 10

Interesting that even with CAPE 10 over 26, today's equity risk premiums are still fairly attractive because bond yields are so low.

1/PE10 is 3.8 +1.5 = 5.3%
The longest TIPS available is yielding around 0.6% real
4.7% equity risk premium is a little low, but not terribly outside the 'norm'.
by Sammy_M
Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:30 am
Forum: Personal Consumer Issues
Topic: Managing kid's internet use
Replies: 48
Views: 6160

Re: Managing kid's internet use

Open DNS and blocking at the router level. That way any devices that connect to the wireless network are subject to parental controls. Plus keeping the main computer in common area. What's a router? What's DNS? Seriously, the technical skill for doing these things is probably more than the average ...