Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

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Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby EnlightenMe » Wed May 18, 2011 8:12 pm

I am thinking about moving my VA's. Does anybody have any experience or comments about this low cost VA? The fund selections are very good, the fees and expenses are very low. Jefferson is rated a "B". Would this be a risky move?
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby Mel Lindauer » Wed May 18, 2011 11:17 pm

EnlightenMe wrote:I am thinking about moving my VA's. Does anybody have any experience or comments about this low cost VA? The fund selections are very good, the fees and expenses are very low. Jefferson is rated a "B". Would this be a risky move?


VA holdings are "walled off" from the insurance company's operating account. The VA assets are held by a custodian, so if the insurance company experiences financial problems, you'll be fine. (That's not the case with fixed annuities, since your money is co-mingled in their operating account.)
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby Don Robins » Wed May 18, 2011 11:39 pm

EnlightenMe wrote:I am thinking about moving my VA's. Does anybody have any experience or comments about this low cost VA? The fund selections are very good, the fees and expenses are very low. Jefferson is rated a "B". Would this be a risky move?


Here is a link to the variable annuity you ae describing:

http://www.jeffnat.com/media/pr.cfm?docid=216
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Postby EnlightenMe » Thu May 19, 2011 2:07 pm

Thanks Mel, the funds being "walled off" confirms what others have told me, including Jefferson National, removing me from default risk of the insurer. Based on that, I think the risk should be pretty low in moving my VA's there. I really like their plain vanilla, low cost, multiple fund options, VA structure

I'll let everyone know in a year or so what I think, there doesn't seem to be any archived comments on the forum from people who are actually using that VA. There is a fair amount of general information.
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Re:

Postby windfall900 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:26 am

EnlightenMe wrote:Thanks Mel, the funds being "walled off" confirms what others have told me, including Jefferson National, removing me from default risk of the insurer. Based on that, I think the risk should be pretty low in moving my VA's there. I really like their plain vanilla, low cost, multiple fund options, VA structure

I'll let everyone know in a year or so what I think, there doesn't seem to be any archived comments on the forum from people who are actually using that VA. There is a fair amount of general information.


Could you update this, please? :) I'm considering this VA too!
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby Sam I Am » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:33 pm

Message deleted.
Last edited by Sam I Am on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby windfall900 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:00 pm

Sam I Am wrote:It looks as though the poster EnlightenMe hasn't visited since May, 2011.

You might send a PM to see if you get a response.

Sam I Am


Thanks, just did.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby EnlightenMe » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:05 pm

I've been there for awhile now. I love the annuity and the fee structure. It's about the same cost as owning an IRA. Lots of funds to chose from, even hedge funds, etc. Website works great. Highly recommended. I am just a contract owner and am not tied in any way to the company.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby windfall900 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:19 pm

EnlightenMe wrote:I've been there for awhile now. I love the annuity and the fee structure. It's about the same cost as owning an IRA. Lots of funds to chose from, even hedge funds, etc. Website works great. Highly recommended. I am just a contract owner and am not tied in any way to the company.


Thanks EnlightenMe! And you just signed up directly as an individual? No advisor needed?
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby livesoft » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:23 pm

^But that doesn't speak to question at hand: Are the fees really miniscule and lower than Vanguard fees? What are the real fees?
It's all about short-term opportunistic rebalancing due to a short-term change in one's asset allocation, uh, I mean opportunistic rebalancing, uh I mean rebalancing, uh I mean market timing.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby windfall900 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:27 pm

livesoft wrote:^But that doesn't speak to question at hand: Are the fees really miniscule and lower than Vanguard fees? What are the real fees?


Yup, everything in the prospectus points to yes. Very exciting to see others beating Vanguard on fees!
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby sscritic » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:41 pm

windfall900 wrote:Yup, everything in the prospectus points to yes. Very exciting to see others beating Vanguard on fees!

Yes, if you make a single deposit of $1 million and never make another deposit or change your asset allocation.

Now what if you deposit $50,000 a year for 20 years, put it into two funds, and make one other asset allocation shift each year (separate from the new money)? Who has lower fees?
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby EnlightenMe » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:43 pm

Yes. I moved there by myself. I didn't need to enlist an advisor like may other companies require. BTW I have 72q withdrawals going on in one contract there and that was seamless also. Not sure why anyone would want to be anyplace else. Total fees are just $20 a month plus the individual fund fee, no other annuity gets close to that if you have a fairly large balance and I have been at several companies over the last 25 years.

I should get paid for this :)
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby windfall900 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:05 pm

sscritic wrote:
windfall900 wrote:Yup, everything in the prospectus points to yes. Very exciting to see others beating Vanguard on fees!

Yes, if you make a single deposit of $1 million and never make another deposit or change your asset allocation.

Now what if you deposit $50,000 a year for 20 years, put it into two funds, and make one other asset allocation shift each year (separate from the new money)? Who has lower fees?


If I put in $1-2M upfront and rebalance every year, it still blows Vanguard out of the water on fees. And that's my use case.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby windfall900 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:09 pm

Even if you traded 4 dozen times a year, it still beats Vanguard on my fund (Vanguard High-Yield Bond)...!
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby letsgobobby » Sat May 25, 2013 9:54 pm

bump for additional experiences? This company received mention in today's Barrons as offering a very low cost VA.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby impala » Sun May 26, 2013 10:48 am

I have had Vanguard VA for a number of years. My inner Bogle wants to switch to Jefferson National, but two things stop me: 1) The company is not registered in New York- which has the strictest financial requirements of any state. 2) The company is "B" rated. I know accounts are segregated, but so were the accounts at MF Global. I'm not sure saving about 30 basis points is worth any worry, since I have, at most, another 15 years of accumulation left. If you read all the literature, which I have, it seems to me that a lot of the responsibility is put on the account owner if the account is hacked. I'm more comfortable with Mother Vanguard.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby nisiprius » Sun May 26, 2013 1:43 pm

I don't grok variable annuities at all, but it does seem to me as if the reason to have one is the assumption that one will in fact, someday, annuitize, and in that case the rating of the insurer certainly does matter. And in the jumbo shrimp, grade-inflation world of insurer financial strength ratings, something like 2/3 to 3/4 of all insurers get a score within the "A" range. Insurance industry apologists naturally say this is because most insurers are great and really deserve those ratings, but... anyway, given that the overwhelming majority of insurers do get ratings within the A's, I think life is way too short to waste time even considering anything lower.

Not being registered in New York (or having a simlarly-named separately-registered sibling entity in New York) is a big red flag, I think.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby Bobbybell » Sun May 26, 2013 2:11 pm

Even if one is planning on annuitizing the money at a later date, the strength of Jackson National should be a non issue. The reason is that when that time comes, they could use a 1035 exchange to annuitize with the company of their choice.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby nisiprius » Sun May 26, 2013 2:17 pm

P.S. How can you have a good feeling about a company named after something that doesn't exist?

As nearly as I can tell, there is no Jefferson National Monument. There is a Thomas Jefferson Memorial in Washington, that lovely rotunda domed thing. There is a Fort Jefferson in Dry Tortugas National Park, but why would an insurance company name itself for a piece of protection that was never needed and thus never proved its worth by paying off?
Bobbybell wrote:Even if one is planning on annuitizing the money at a later date, the strength of Jackson National should be a non issue. The reason is that when that time comes, they could use a 1035 exchange to annuitize with the company of their choice.
If you say so. Is it really that easy? Do insurers really have no way to pressure you into keeping the VA with them?
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby Bobbybell » Sun May 26, 2013 2:48 pm

It is really that easy.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby dhodson » Sun May 26, 2013 3:36 pm

they might try to delay a little bit but besides adding hurdles in regards to forms/time etc they will eventually relinquish. They likely hope they can convince you from moving in that time.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby grabiner » Sun May 26, 2013 9:48 pm

sscritic wrote:
windfall900 wrote:Yup, everything in the prospectus points to yes. Very exciting to see others beating Vanguard on fees!

Yes, if you make a single deposit of $1 million and never make another deposit or change your asset allocation.

Now what if you deposit $50,000 a year for 20 years, put it into two funds, and make one other asset allocation shift each year (separate from the new money)? Who has lower fees?


That is fees of $340 or $390 per year (probably $340, as only one fee is imposed on two transactions made on the same day), on an average balance of $500K over 20 years, for an extra expense ratio of 0.17%. Vanguard charges 0.29% above the underlying fund expenses regardless of the account size. Thus JeffNat is still less expensive because of the large account size.
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Re: Any experience with Jefferson National Monument Annuity?

Postby Default User BR » Mon May 27, 2013 2:04 pm

nisiprius wrote:P.S. How can you have a good feeling about a company named after something that doesn't exist?

As nearly as I can tell, there is no Jefferson National Monument. There is a Thomas Jefferson Memorial in Washington, that lovely rotunda domed thing. There is a Fort Jefferson in Dry Tortugas National Park

Don't forget the Jefferson National Expansion Memorial in St. Louis, best known for the Gateway Arch.


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